Alfred Hitchcock: Classic or Dud?

NYC series focusing on Joan Harrison and Alma Reville

https://filmforum.org/series/the-women-behind-hitchcock

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/6847-the-women-behind-hitchcock

pic.twitter.com/0hw0fpb7va

— nuanced opinion guy (@charles_kinbote) June 15, 2020

There's a bomb under the table, iirc.

121st anniv of his birth yesterday.

I might rank The Manxman only behind The Lodger and Blackmail (silent version) among his pre-talkies. Anny Ondra certainly has as juicy a role here as in Blackmail, and though the moral schema of the plot is nuts even for the era, there are some great shots and edits, and that trademark feeling of entrapment.

Alma yesterday, Hitch the day before.

To be filed under Hope for the Future, of all the older or classic movies I've watched with my daughter so far, she's loved every Hitch. I think we're six for six?

pish tosh, GMT

xp

xp That's awesome, which six Josh?

THE WRONG MAN is the most underrated of imperial phase Hitchcock... I will continue to say this

So far, Psycho, Shadow of a Doubt, Vertigo, Rear Window, North by Northwest and Strangers on a Train. There are so many more sure things that would keep her fully entertained and not feel like homework. Thinking Notorious, Rebecca, To Catch a Thief, Dial M for Murder, The Birds, The Man Who Knew Too Much, Lifeboat, Rope, Suspicion, Trouble With Harry, Spellbound, Foreign Correspondent ... it's kind of nuts.

M A R N I E

Yeah I have to say... I thought there were more solid duds, but I've seen almost everything after 1930 and I can't come up with half a dozen I think really suck... Paradine Case and Under Capricorn are terrible... Topaz and Torn Curtain are bad but they have their moments... I remember not liking Young and Innocent or Secret Agent but the transfers I saw were awful... You could make the case for any of the others really... as Eric(?) said way upthread, he's got like 10 hard red masterpieces, and that list Josh is just dizzying, I can't imagine missing with any of those. I figured Notorious would've been in the first six.

Marnie has a lot of issues but it is alive and active on a level that none of his subsequent films are. I feel like The Birds is the last classic, even if it sort of loses the thread at the end.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith is another hidden gem, his only genuine comedy, and really lovely at that--starring Robert Montgomery and Carole Lombard! I'd add that to the list, Josh...

Frenzy and Family Plot have their inexplicable fans.

I would not bump Marnie higher on a teenage girl's viewing list ahead of many of the others Josh is considering tbh

I really like Family Plot.

A little surprised The 39 Steps isn't on your list Josh

I would not bump Marnie higher on a teenage girl's viewing list ahead of many of the others Josh is considering tbh

at some point they gotta find out what to expect from sailors imho

To be filed under Hope for the Future

I credit my parents showing young me lots of Hitch as to why I never had a problem getting into classic cinema/old movies (I mean, the opposite in fact)

Mr. and Mrs. Smith is another hidden gem, his only genuine comedy, and really lovely at that--starring Robert Montgomery and Carole Lombard!

This is a surprising take to me - seen that thing twice and both times it's felt to me like there's no indication whatsoever that Montgomery and Lombard's characters actually care about each other. Feels v much like Hitch was bored to tears making a screwball comedy.

Same. And it's stodgy.

Frenzy is the last classic, say I inexplicably.

Paradine Case and Under Capricorn have their moments.

I don't know how many of you folks have teenagers, but it's tricky. She's really bright and patient, but there are some classic films that just don't do it for her, so I have to be careful what I show her for fear of turning her against something. For example, something like "The 39 Steps." It's a great movie, but it's still from 1935, which is close to 100 years ago, which might as well be a million years to someone who thinks movies from the '70s and '80s or even '90s are "old." The challenge I've sort of set for myself is that when I show her a square-image black and white movie (which are innately challenging to someone who has grown up in a colorful widescreen world) I've been trying to find movies that, yeah, aren't the least stodgy, or have an air of modernity to them. For example, she loved "His Girl Friday" and "Sullivan's Travels" because the dialogue was so fast and alive and they featured compelling female leads. But if I showed her a movie that came off too stodgy and old fashioned or dull, she might put a hold on classic B&W for a while. Another couple of examples: I forget the straw that broke the camel's back, but at one point she complained that too many movies we were watching were just men shooting at each other. And when I thought about it, she wasn't wrong! So we took a break from action movies for a bit. Or "2001," I think I showed her part of it when she was too young, and now she equates it with "boring." Which, tbf, it is, but it's the right kind of boring. I just showed it to her at the wrong time. Or "Seven Samurai" and "Lawrence of Arabia," she just couldn't get onboard (granted, a couple of years ago), but she more recent;y saw "Yojimbo" and loved it. But would I show her a movie even as perfect as 'Tokyo Story?" That might be a tougher sell at her age.

That's kind of why I picked the Hitchcocks I picked first. I think we started with "Rear Window" and "North by Northwest," because those are his two most perfectly entertaining movies, but they also set the stage for his other movies, most of which are also fortunately immensely entertaining.

Hmm, she might like some more Powell/Pressburger. She loved "The Red Shoes" years ago, so might dig at least a couple of their other movies. Maybe A Matter of Life and Death or Black Narcissus would be good choices.

Tokyo Story would go over well I think! Evergreen story

It's been forever since I'd seen "The Birds," possibly decades, but boy is that movie impeccably directed. Also tons of stuff I never put together until this viewing. The biggest is that, reading between the lines, it seems pretty clear, or at least is heavily implied, that Cathy (Veronica Cartwright!) is Rod Taylor's child with Annie, the school teacher, and that his mother (Jessica Tandy) is raising her as his sibling. What's less clear is how Taylor, 33 at the time of the movie's release, looks at least 10 years older than that, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, my daughter liked it. Hitch still batting 1000.

What's less clear is how Taylor, 33 at the time of the movie's release, looks at least 10 years older than that

Three packs of unfiltered Camels a day?

Ha, that was one theory! Also, Australian and super-tan? It's further confused by Jessica Tandy, who was 54 but still looks like they and she tried to make her seem older. So you've got a son who is 33 irl but looks 50, and a mother who is 54 irl but could probably pass for younger. Tippi Hedron looks her age (33; she's just a week younger than Taylor), but she's acting against a man who in a stretch could probably get away with playing her dad. The sexual dynamics of this movie are so messed up, anyway, it makes me wonder if it's all intentional.

I disagree that he looks particularly old – men in their 30s back then tended to look really old by modern standards, just because of the way they dressed and carried themselves in the pre-kidulthood era.

But even if he's 33, the age gap is odd, you're right. I'd never consciously thought it before; it's just hung there, making the whole thing more peculiar. And your theory doesn't seem outlandish, even if I can't see anyone else suggesting it on a quick Google search.

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/rod-taylor-the-birds.jpg

Yeah, for sure, people looked older. But this is a particularly old looking 33, imo.

Still, not too old to be the son of a 54 year old. And same age as Tippi, so that all works out on paper. But yeah, the younger sister throws things off in a really conspicuous way. I'd like to think I am pioneering new ground on one of the most written about Hitch films!

No way does he look 50. I completely bought him as Tandy's son. The Cathy/Annie theory is interesting, however. There does seem to be a significant age gap between brother and sister.

Just for the sake of comparison here is fellow mama's boy Robert Walker, also 33, in "Strangers on a Train:"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Robert_Walker_in_Strangers_on_a_Train_trailer_%282%29..png

But he's also playing the character more flamboyantly/youthfully.

Sorry, strictly rabbit hole stuff here, but here's Joseph Cotten, 38, in "Shadow of a Doubt:"

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOTQyOGM3YjAtNDE5OC00ZmZkLTk0ZGItMjk0MGZlMTQ0NDcxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzc5NjM0NA@@._V1_.jpg

Maybe Taylor's makeup and general swarthiness/manliness accounts for appearances?

I seem to recall one of the earliest bits of casting trivia I learned was that Cary Grant was originally considered for "Vertigo" but Hitch thought it was too old. He would have been 51. FWIW, Jimmy Stewart was himself 47.

("thought *he* was too old)

And when Vertigo underperformed at the box office, Hitch blamed Stewart for being too old.

Shuddering to think of a Vertigo starring John Gavin.

*shudders*

Of course "Notorious" was a big hit here, though my daughter has gotten kind of annoyed at all these films where more or less the instant the male and female leads meet they are magically "in love." The best I could come up with is that in the era they had to be "in love" to make the romance morally acceptable, because god forbid the affair be an actual casual fling.

On that tip, you should tell her about why the big kiss scene is so broken up and stretched out.

Book on Hitch by a former ilxor.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-520-34356-6

Cool, guess I should finally get round to watching The Lodger ...

It's really good!

Also want to the see the 1944 remake (one of a number) with Laird Cregar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lodger_(1944_film)

what was his ILX moniker?

what was his ILX moniker?

my guess is either ENRQ (posted a lot about how ahead of the rest of the UK Hitch was iirc) or garu g

ah that's where NRQ ended up!

Mutuals with NRQ on twitter it's not like he just disappeared.

That, um, doesn’t sound like NRQ’s govname

He has posted under different names.