Twin Peaks: Classic or Dud?

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Well? And what about David Lynch in general?

Ally, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I think I was just too young to get it. I wish it would be repeated, I would probally love it now.

It was eerie and surreal. I like the way the main character (I'm terrible with names), always slept in such a perfect manner. And the dream sequences with the midget were cool.

Show it again, powers that be!

jel, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

First season -- astoundingly brilliant; second -- flawed, but when on it was on. I still think my favorite moment of the series is the end of the one episode near the last one where the camera tracks through a variety of empty office spaces while the voice of what's her name -- the police dispatcher, I think -- echoes away, then shifts to that bizarre scene in the woods where Bob's (god, it's been too long, I *think* that's the character's name -- gray long hair, beard) disembodied hand first appears, then all of him, the camera pans down to the ground, and in the water, the red curtains appear as some echoed sax seeps onto the soundtrack. AAAAH. Beautiful.

Him in general -- hey, even Dune had its moments. But let me confess I still have never seen Eraserhead.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

cherry pie

Ed, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Eraserhead = DL's best film by seven city leagues...
"In heaven, everything is fine..."

I liked the TP giant who appeared to say: "It's happening again!"
And the rude cop, Albert.

mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

That's damn good coffee.

I lived in Seattle for a year, and that year coincided with the year of Twin Peaks' first season. We went to all the joints on the show, the hotel, the waterfall, the diner. Classic.

Ally, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

The first series: BRILLIANT.

The second series: If I remember correctly it was a lot longer than the first, and it started off really well and the last episode or two is great as well, but there is this monstrously dull section in the middle where it turns into a tiresome soap opera. Soap operas are not cool.

The film: complete genius. what modern horror is meant to be like.

David Lynch generally: I think he's great.

DV, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I really like Eraserhead and Blue Velvet. I never really watched Twin Peaks. Dune was more entertaining than the book, which ain't saying much.

Kris, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

The debut episode of Twin Peaks is one of my weirder memories...I was...12?...(yes, you shall all feel aged now)...and I was in the hospital. Earlier that day I had been in surgery and had slept for 17 hours straight; they thought I wasn't going to wake up. When I did, the first thing I did, inexplicably, was demand that I watch Twin Peaks and ate four sandwiches. I've never been right since.

jess, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I enjoyed the film too, DV, but don't you think it was a bit of a mess? I.e., only suitable to those already heavily involved in thinking about the things as a whole and making a ton of allowances for internal incoherence?

Re: the second season: yes, the soap-opera bits were atrocious. But in retrospect, I think of them so fondly. That ridiculous part where James leaves town and gets involved in the weird love-triangle with the woman and her abusive husband? And then just comes back to Twin Peaks, as if nothing had ever happened?

Nitsuh, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

We're all forgetting Invitation to Love, surely?

"And Clint Beefsteak as Montana."

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Have I mentioned my college roommate who rented "Eraserhead" while in high school for a weekend and (along with the rest of his family, including 14- and 10-year-old younger brothers) proceeded to watch it TWENTY TIMES IN A ROW?

Dan Perry, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Is the same obsesso-family that had the shrine to Robert Smith in the bathroom?

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, although it would be more accurate to call it a shrine to _Disintegration_.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I love Twin Peaks as much as I love Infinite Jest as much as I love House Tornado.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Twin Peaks was rather classic--I wish the series would be released on DVD for proper geek enjoyment. "Bob" is the sort of thing that makes me afraid to go in to the basement.

matthew, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Ally is well read and excellent on all fronts!

Pennysong Hanle y, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

All of Twin Peaks is wonderful - the soap opera bits in the second series work like the breakdown in "One More Time". It ruined television for me, frankly.

Tom, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I always wanted to be Audrey Horne.

Ally, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

there has been no better television drama ever. why does ally like so many things that i like?

ethan, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Whatever the reason, I'm 100% certain that it's all your fault.

Ally, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I just watched the movie for the first time. I never saw the series. Is it better? The movie was. . .odd. I'd like to rent some tapes of the series though and check it out. I was stoned, it's a good stoned movie.

Sam, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

well i've chalked up jay-z to some bizarre second-hand musical faghag thing on your part but twin peaks, that's just weird.

ethan, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Dud. I could be weirder with both lobes tied behind my back. Eraserhead: okay, but, eh. Everything else: poopy, including Dune, Lost Highway and Twin Peaks.

Nude Spock, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Blue Velvet was good.

Nude Spock, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, that explanation of Jay-Z makes loads of sense. Ethan = logistical genius.

Ally, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Explains my like of Jay-Z too! How do you do it, Ethan? ;-)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

The dream sequences are the most accurate depictions of dreams ever.

JM, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

six months pass...
are we falling in love?

Queen G, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, take me.

Ally, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

the most Classic thing ever made. I was too young to see it on TV, but the renting and non-stop watching of it totally dominated my life for two weeks a couple years ago; I'd get home from school/work, pop in Twin Peaks, and watch until I keeled over.

Dan I., Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Classic, classic, classic.

Whilst still a student I lived with someone who had all the episodes on video. In our third year, due to freak timetabling I finished my exams earlier than everyone else I knew. For three days I sat on my own and watched series one and two back to back, only speaking to stressed flatmates when they came down to make coffee.

By all accounts I was a little odd at the end of it.

I *knew* there would be a Twin Peaks thread on here somewh

Anna, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

After being wowed by "Mulholland Drive" and feeling like I'm a fan of David Lynch again, I rented "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me", which I never bothered with the first time. I thought it was a complete piece of garbage. It didn't even have nice photography. If I didn't have a friend over watching it with me I would have turned it off.

Sean, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Still one of my couple of favourite TV drama series ever, despite the crap ending. And a lot of Lynch's films are terrific too.

Martin Skidmore, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

crap ending

I know what you mean, but seeing as there is no ending it's a bit unfair to pick on it for being a crap one. "Nonexistent" would be better.

Last week I watched episodes of On the Air, the surprisingly sitcommy show Lynch developed after Twin Peaks. Slapstick. Most of it played out like the Twin Peaks beauty pageant. Very torn as to its classicness versus dudness.

Nitsuh, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

the biazarre thing when you watch twin peaks again is the humour - i mean it was all there, but yr head was too fucked up in trying to figure out if daddy fucked her or not...now it's camp, beautirul, emlancholic. genius

Queen G, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

nine months pass...
Funny Twin Peaks. When the original series was out, I was 13 years old, and a friend and I joined a Twin Peaks discussion group which met in a now-nonexistent bookstore on Southport Ave. in Chicago. We passed around cherry pie and doughnuts and tossed about theories regarding owls, UFOs, the Black Lodge, etc. One day someone in the group (everyone save for Katie and I were over 30) announced that they had the new Playboy with Sherilyn Fenn and proceeded to pass it around. That was my first exposure to pornography, broadly defined.

Classic, of course. I wish David Lynch had the energy to involve himself in each episode, however. The ones he directed are a world apart from the rest of the series.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I meant to begin, "Funny Twin Peaks story."

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I loved that movie.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 13 January 2003 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link

i only really got into twin peaks recently:a friend of mine had all the episodes on tape,another friend asked to borrow them,and a group of about four of them started to watch it all the way through...
they kept going on about it,and then another group started watching,then myself and two other friends watched it as well...
its great to watch all the way through,the thing with it is you have to see every episode...
its amazing how enjoyable the whole thing is,even though you could find faults with certain parts,overall it is so amazingly good i still haven't got over it...
nothing else on tv,except the simpsons,comes close,in my opinion...
bob scares the life out of me,if i saw that actor walking down the street i would probably turn and run...
the last episode was also the purest form of terror i have ever experienced-i'm not normally someone who likes that sort of thing (i never watch horror films if i can avoid it)but it is just so good you can't not watch it...
the second series did have some dodgy moments,but there are so many hilarious scenes,and most of the characters are so great,that even a "bad" episode is incredibly enjoyable...
as for the film,if you haven't seen the series there's no real point in seeing the film...
its great to have another twin peaks fix after the series ends,and it is truly eerie,but its not quite as good as the best episodes-the more humanistic touches are missing....
well worth seeing after the series though...

robin (robin), Monday, 13 January 2003 20:17 (eighteen years ago) link

btw matthew the first series is out on dvd,at least in region two (uk and ireland)
as for the film being all over the place,part of the appeal of twin peaks for me was that it seemed like such an anomaly-that some weirdo had persuaded tv companies to fund a series you have to watch every episode of,containing loads of weird,fucked up little bits,and then got a film made that,although it was technically a prequel to the series,relied on you having seen it...this makes it all the more rewarding if you do get into it...

robin (robin), Monday, 13 January 2003 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I've watched the first series but I've never been able to catch the second (when it was shown the first time i think i was too young) (hopefully I'll get it someday).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 13 January 2003 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link

The second season is I think still available on NTSC (that's American/Japanese format) VHS. It's in EP mode so it looks like crap compared to the DVD set of the first season (which is out in R1--USA--in addition to R2).

The actor who played BOB (Frank Silva) died not long after Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me came out, so no danger of spotting him on the street. The scene where he crawls over the coach to Maddy's horror is terrifying.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:42 (eighteen years ago) link

The film (Fire Walk with Me), by the way, made a lot more "sense" before it was edited down to meet the producers' demands. The scene with David Bowie, for example, moves from the totally inexplicable to the very strange. Unfortunately I think there is much in the full script that is too literal by Lynch's standards, essentially rather obvious "let's fill in the holes"-type exposition. I'm torn between wanting to see the "full" version (many more scenes were shot than made it to the final cut) and appreciating the one we have for its evocative incoherence.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link

apparently there was two hours worth of film with david bowie in there but Lynch cut it down to 30 seconds after deciding that he couldn't act! well, that's what i heard anyway.

I'll try and chase the second season.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:49 (eighteen years ago) link

No, there's a short scene with Bowie's character in Rio de Janeiro (explaining the "I was in Rio" line) and the scene in the FBI offices is a bit longer. I think that's it. I doubt Lynch decided Bowie "couldn't act" since he is at the very least a strong presence in front of the camera and the role doesn't ask for too much--and after all Lynch has cast far less qualified people in major roles and used them effectively (viz. BOB and Laura).

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link

OK.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Twin Peaks - still one of my favourite shows ever. I lived for every Tuesday night at 9p.m. on BBC2 and remained hopelessly devoted even the identity of Laura Palmer's killer was revealed and my peers had given up on it. Delightfully quirky and every so often absolutely terrifying.

Classic. Classic. Classic.

Ben Mott (Ben Mott), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Another TP story, I broke my toe because I was running upstairs (our TV was in the basement) to get a soda, trying to make it there and back before the second episode started. On the way back down I tripped and--ouch!--crunch--broke my big toe. So I had to go to the hospital and didn't see the crucial second episode (the one with the dream sequence) until months later.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link

favorite TP character(s):

the seldom seen Hayward sisters Harriet (twee and so hilarious - 2 scenes) and her piano playing sister Gersten (awesome boogie woogie retainer speech affect - sadly one scene).

gygax!, Monday, 13 January 2003 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, probably. Not sure I'd want to watch the last two episodes of s3 in isolation.

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Thursday, 8 October 2020 12:11 (one year ago) link

wow good to know, didn’t know it actually got good at the end.

it's an oft-told twin peaks / lynch anecdote, but he left during most of S2 to do Wild At Heart, but came back once it was clear that cancellation was imminent to take the reigns on the last few episodes, which is why they're suddenly much better (imo). there's also the counterpoint about frost's heavy involvement all the way through, and there are definitely many series highlights that are from the period where lynch was off less involved. but still, when he comes back for the last few episodes it's like night and day

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 14:47 (one year ago) link

That oft-told anecdote is entirely untrue fwiw

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Thursday, 8 October 2020 14:54 (one year ago) link

haha, i knew this would happen - i almost advised brimstead to just look upthread for this discussion

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 14:56 (one year ago) link

What year is this

But seriously, lynch was not away during series 2 working on a film that premiered a month after series 1, though he always claims he was

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Thursday, 8 October 2020 14:59 (one year ago) link

He was absent for most of the making of the first series because he was making wild at heart

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:00 (one year ago) link

it's all coming back to me...and yes, that timeline you present does go against the commonly-told version (which is Lynch's version? i don't even know).

it still seems so odd, because the 1st season is pretty consistently good all the way through, and....well you know how my reaction to this goes. :) I'm seriously going to scroll up and see what i say next

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:04 (one year ago) link

hmm, can't seem to find it, it was probably on one of the many other lynch threads. still, it seems striking to me that even lynch's biographers seem to support his version of events (one of many examples: Worst ongoing plotline in the second season of Twin Peaks (SPOILERS))

that doesn't mean anything, of course - biographers can get it wrong and lynch is certainly not past exaggerating or straight up lying

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:18 (one year ago) link

He definitely withdrew from the production during s2 (even when he was technically “around”) but I think it’s more to do with losing interest/feeling like the project got away from him post-Laura Palmer than any commitment to other projects. The wild at heart story that he tells and everyone repeats is so clearly, verifiably untrue it reminds me of lost highway “I like to remember things my own way”. He’s IN the show for a lot of these eps he pretends he was absent for!

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:19 (one year ago) link

He’s IN the show for a lot of these eps he pretends he was absent for!

many are saying this is where the idea of tulpas came into the mix

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:21 (one year ago) link

i'm curious about that, though. i guess he would say that he was in those episodes but wasn't directing them or writing them? but it's really, REALLY hard to imagine lynch on set, no taking control of everything.

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:22 (one year ago) link

He was actually busy filming Industrial Symphony No. 1 during season 2. A beleaguered 15-month shoot iirc (Anderson had a hell of a time learning to saw that log to Lynch's liking).

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:24 (one year ago) link

_ He’s IN the show for a lot of these eps he pretends he was absent for!_

many are saying this is where the idea of tulpas came into the mix


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrouchyCaringCurassow-size_restricted.gif

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Thursday, 8 October 2020 15:28 (one year ago) link

It's funny, it's clear how much Lynch liked the idea of making a TV show with ongoing plots. He even tried to do it again with what became Mulholland Drive. But at the same time, staying focused on one thing for such an extended period was probably kind of at odds with his instincts. Especially when it involved dealing with network brass etc. He cleared the landscape ahead of time for S3 by making sure he could do pretty much whatever he wanted, and he obviously approached it more as an 18-hour movie than a show with no definitive cut-off.

Lynch got disillusioned about ~creating~ on Peaks after the network forced them to reveal a killer: this is supported by the accounts of himself and every other writer, plus the fact he stops writing or directing immediately afterward.

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Thursday, 8 October 2020 19:35 (one year ago) link

Which, to be fair, is not an unreasonable or unexpected request of a TV network.

Less noted is that Frost was also checked out during the doldrums of season 2 prepping his own film. A couple of staff writers were basically running things for a while.

Chris L, Friday, 9 October 2020 11:13 (one year ago) link

That could read unnecessarily dismissive - they weren't just "a couple of staff writers," they were the entirety of the writing staff, other than Frost, up until the point they had to become showrunners, and had never worked in TV before! It's no wonder they wobbled a bit under the pressure of a) the job, b) the demands of the network, c) the impact of scheduling changes and soft cancellations / uncancellations, and d) Lynch's grumpy feedback.

(Peyton's first full script was episode 4, and Engels' was #5. Peyton is the only non-Frost/Lynch writer on whose script Lynch went into production as a director (S02e02). Lynch has a total of 3 teleplay credits on old Peaks - the first 3 eps, including the pilot - Peyton has 12 (not counting the finale, where Lynch's revisions muddy the waters beyond the usual murky credits of US TV), Engels has nine and was recruited by Lynch to write both Fire Walk With Me and On The Air with him.)

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Friday, 9 October 2020 11:54 (one year ago) link

Yes, I'm sympathetic. They were in a difficult position that was foisted upon them.

Chris L, Friday, 9 October 2020 11:59 (one year ago) link

The other thing is that the main direction they had planned to go post-reveal (developing the coop-Audrey relationship) was kiboshed by maclachlan at pretty much the last minute and they had to scrabble to come up with replacement storylines. They were definitely dropped in the shit and kind of abandoned by the l/f team to differing degrees and did alright considering

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:40 (one year ago) link

"ok ok we can't do the audrey/coop storyline, what else do we got"

"how about... audrey sleeps with billy zane in his private plane"

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:43 (one year ago) link

nailed it

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:46 (one year ago) link

They really had no idea what to do with Audrey after that and it’s so apparent - watching her scenes in the third season I really felt that they had a grasp of her character again for the first time since the very beginning of s2

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:52 (one year ago) link

how about... audrey sleeps with billy zane in his private plane

who wouldn't

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:53 (one year ago) link

'Mmm, you're almost there, but it feels like something is still missing from the tableau...'
'What if Pete just hangs around outside while they fuck?'
'Kid, you've got the goods.'

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Friday, 9 October 2020 12:57 (one year ago) link

who wouldn't!

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Friday, 9 October 2020 13:00 (one year ago) link

I just wonder - how much can you really put on Cooper/Audrey not happening? Apart from the perfectly legitimate concern that an upstanding FBI agent shouldn't be romancing a high school girl (even if she only goes to school every fortnight or so), would that have eliminated all the bad storylines? Would we have been spared the Widow Milford? Would Windom Earle have become menacing for more than two scenes out of 25? Could Josie's plotline ever have become comprehensible or meaningful in any way? Would "Asian Man Killed!!" have been a real gut-punch of a reveal?

JoeStork, Friday, 9 October 2020 21:51 (one year ago) link

Storyline Killed!

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 9 October 2020 21:57 (one year ago) link

^ ha

With the murder's exposure of the darkness and secrets permeating the town being removed completely as a motivating engine, they were left flailing to try and come up with a version of the show that contained existing elements / characters but was also acceptable to the network. Who, probably, were now looking for it to be competitive to Northern Exposure in 18-49 demographic viewers who buy branded tea towels.

(even if she only goes to school every fortnight or so)

reminder for fun here that the entirety of OG Twin Peaks takes place in a month!

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Friday, 9 October 2020 22:02 (one year ago) link

I just wonder - how much can you really put on Cooper/Audrey not happening? Apart from the perfectly legitimate concern that an upstanding FBI agent shouldn't be romancing a high school girl (even if she only goes to school every fortnight or so), would that have eliminated all the bad storylines? Would we have been spared the Widow Milford? Would Windom Earle have become menacing for more than two scenes out of 25? Could Josie's plotline ever have become comprehensible or meaningful in any way? Would "Asian Man Killed!!" have been a real gut-punch of a reveal?

― JoeStork, Friday, 9 October 2020 22:51 (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Now you're asking! My own answer is "a bit" - the cancellation of one major storyline is one extra thing that was piled on to the new de facto showrunners, along with all the other stuff cited upthread

But I have a different view to most wrt what went wrong in s2. Lynch has never got over the fact that the network forced him to reveal the killer and everyone takes his side because blah blah artistic vision but the bad and hated network execs made the correct call - the episode where the killer is revealed is the best episode of the series, without it you don't have fwwm which is the centre of the tp universe for me. In the parallel universe where his hand was never forced the show still gets cancelled (ratings were tanking from the start) but the show is a bit more consistent for a few more episodes and they never face these issues of patriarchal violence head-on.

With the murder's exposure of the darkness and secrets permeating the town being removed completely as a motivating engine

why on earth is this a given? If lynch/frost had the nerve to follow through on their big reveal, the devastating effect of Leland's crime on the community could easily have been the driver of the rest of the series - but they got bored/fed up and bailed. Much as I can enjoy the latter half of s2 the fact that they abruptly bury the palmer murder(s) is what's jarring. It makes zero sense.

& for me the same thing holds with the audrey/cooper thing, kyle m's objections are obv sound but I don't think it immediately follows that they completely abandon the relationship they've been building for a season and a bit (which is what ends up happening) - it doesn't have to be "cooper and audrey bang and this is a good thing", they could instead have worked with the chemistry they'd built up to explore that dynamic in a show obsessed with older dudes preying on young women, at the same time they were consciously introducing fatal flaws in their perfect hero.

20/20 hindsight obv but the accepted narratives are all a bit self-serving - I think lynch had a sulk and fucked off, and the writers tore up the main stories unnecessarily and that's why those eps are the way they are. Windom earle is the most unlynchian creation but he's ok when lynch directs him in that last ep, he might not have been 100% shit in previous eps if lynch was more engaged.

Gab B. Nebsit (wins), Friday, 9 October 2020 22:59 (one year ago) link

yeah Earle is finally genuinely unsettling in the s2 finale

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 9 October 2020 23:44 (one year ago) link

If lynch/frost had the nerve to follow through on their big reveal, the devastating effect of Leland's crime on the community could easily have been the driver of the rest of the series - but they got bored/fed up and bailed.

They were forced to stop doing what they wanted; if they'd followed through on the reveal that they were forced to do, then they would - we can infer - have felt forced into every element of that, and not done it well.

Lynch stepping away and coming up with a deeper and better way (three times!) to address disjunctive trauma from a protective authority figure, after feeling a disjunctive trauma from the network daddies, is a much better outcome than just getting more and more resentful and making a Peaks that neither of them believed in, which peters out and is forgotten.

& for me the same thing holds with the audrey/cooper thing, kyle m's objections are obv sound but I don't think it immediately follows that they completely abandon the relationship they've been building for a season and a bit (which is what ends up happening) - it doesn't have to be "cooper and audrey bang and this is a good thing", they could instead have worked with the chemistry they'd built up to explore that dynamic in a show obsessed with older dudes preying on young women, at the same time they were consciously introducing fatal flaws in their perfect hero.

Yep. Audrey also would have flourished if Cooper had mentored her into developing her investigative skills, something she showed a genuine (if misdirected) flair for. She only overstepped in order to get Coop's attention - growing up around Ben Horne's business had inculcated her to identify undercurrents of malicious behaviour.

Covidiots from UHF (sic), Saturday, 10 October 2020 00:33 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Mentioned this on the Roadhouse bands poll, but the IRL Bang Bang Bar is having a pandemic-related gofundme.

shivers me timber (sic), Monday, 18 January 2021 22:04 (ten months ago) link

five months pass...

A few comments after rewatching the first two seasons (+ pilot).

When I was 10 or so, my next door friend Dermot and I got permission to sleep outside in the backyard. (Do parents still give the okay to such things in this day and age?) As soon as it turned dark, we snuck away for a walk around our (suburban) neighborhood. I think we ventured maybe half a kilometer up Delrex and into the Chelvin/Fagan area (had to look up those names). It was so strange walking around after dark that I still remember the experience vividly 50 years later. The best parts of the first season of Twin Peaks get at that feeling probably better than anything I can think of. The other thing I love most is the Hawksian rapport between Cooper and Truman and Hawk, three guys trying to do their job as well as they can. When Truman tells Cooper at one point (of self-doubt from Cooper) that he's the best lawman he's ever known, I find that very moving.

S2 has lots of good stuff--Leland's meltdown, the Giant (amazing), the continuing mystery of the woods, Windom Earle (I know some people dismiss that character)--and three detours I find pointless: Ben's Civil War fixation, Evelyn Marsh (her classic noir name is the best thing about that whole subplot), and Little Nicky. I could do without Dick Tremayne in general--he's occasionally amusing. I think my favourite scene for laughs is Albert's return--the new, collegial Albert--where he hugs Truman and imitates Gordon Cole.

I'm going to finish off by rewatching S3 for the first time. With an open mind, ideally, although I'd be surprised if it got any better, so probably not.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:37 (four months ago) link

s3 is a very different animal. have you watched Fire Walk With Me yet?

akm, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:39 (four months ago) link

I'm with you on everything except Windom Earle.

I think I would have liked his character more if he hadn't been so built up. By the time he actually shows up I'm expecting a badass or a monster and we get a flute playing elf.

Cow_Art, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:48 (four months ago) link

FWWM is strongly recommended before The Return, esp if you watch the fan edit that rebuilds it with The Missing Pieces (deleted scenes) included in screenplay order.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:56 (four months ago) link

I've seen FWWM more than once.

I just started rewatching my bootleg of S3, and I'm thinking I might try to order a real DVD instead. (Not streaming right now on either Netflix or Prime.) The biggest negative about bootlegs is just adequate sound quality and no subtitles. And if you turn up the volume too much, you end up jumping out of your chair with the first loud bit of music.

They build up Earle a bit too much, agreed, but I do find him sinister, and for me he got S2 back on track and away from the Lynch jokiness of the three things I mentioned.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:15 (four months ago) link

it is my lonely opinion that S3 is best experienced on headphones.

Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:16 (four months ago) link

similar to eraserhead in that way: watch it normally and it’s one of his best, watch with headphones and suddenly it is maybe the very best

Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:17 (four months ago) link

Was able to order it for $20, so I'll put this off for another couple of weeks.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:19 (four months ago) link

I've seen FWWM more than once.

the Missing Pieces has lots of material in the tone of / setting up elements of The Return, which is why I recommend the fan edit for "between S2 and S3" rewatches in particular, not as a replacement for the film itself

(it basically plays as a full episode of The Casefiles Of Agent Chester Desmond, followed by a near-three-hour Town Of Twin Peaks movie)

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Saturday, 17 July 2021 19:19 (four months ago) link

I meant to add Herculean Nadine and Mike to my list of dubious subplots. It's amusing a couple of times, and it does set up the ending--where it feels like Lynch wants good people like Ed and Norma and Donna and Dr. Hayward to end up miserable--but I would happily do without it. Also, the supposed overpowering allure of Lana in the midst of Madchen Amick, Sherilyn Fenn, Lara Flynn Boyle, Peggy Lipton, and Heather Graham, that doesn't register with me.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 July 2021 19:29 (four months ago) link

i used to be anti-earle and still sorta think it would have been better had jean renault ("maybe you bring the nightmare with you") fled into the woods after the dead dog farm bust (deep in the doldrums iirc) and (driven by anti-cooper animus) become himself obsessed w accessing the power in the lodge. but earle is a more complete shadow-cooper than renault could have been (maybe if you made him a blackmailer? shadow coop needs to have something to do w secrets+interpretation) and tho the whole chess thing is extremely cheesy imo i do like: him cackling amidst a growing clutter of bespoke surveillance and analysis hardware (precursor to evil cooper's gadgets in the return); his disguises (scene w donna is particularly successful); the business with leo's shock collar (deep); the interrogation of major briggs; the part where he sees a postcard with an owl on it. also think quite an affecting performance is given by the shocked and mourning friend of Heavy Metal Youth.

james/evelyn was the runaway winner of classic ilx poll Worst ongoing plotline in the second season of Twin Peaks (SPOILERS) but i enjoy it-- coming after maddie's awful failure to escape the dream i like that james' own less tragic attempt is met w imprisonment in this xeroxed culdesac, like the soap opera he is trapped in is procedurally generating content as he tries to reach its boundary. (this is literally what is happening ofc.) also enjoy the gratuitous sirky cinematography (leaves on driveways etc) and that when the rich husband finally shows up to his manor he is wearing a full nike tracksuit. obv all the writing in this section is v silly-- you really like to make everything sound pointless and stupid don't you!!

the high school stuff w nadine on wrestling team etc is pretty bad but all nadine/ed/norma/even mike stuff is amazing: them in bed, the shattered milkshake, wrenching final therapy session. (single fave Missing Piece may be ed and norma listening to sycamore trees.)

i find it impossible to care about donna's parentage but like the pine weasel it is mechanically useful to the Good Ben plot. little nicky otoh not mechanically useful to much.

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 17 July 2021 20:56 (four months ago) link

Donna's parentage is such a huge thing, I find it so odd it was left as a throwaway right at the end. I suppose this has been asked many times, but was there a possibility of a third season at the time? Seems like the Donna-Audrey relationship would have been a key element of a third season circa 1990.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 July 2021 22:15 (four months ago) link

I agree with sic's recommendation of the fan edit even though its obviously not as Lynch intended, at the very least watch as much of missing pieces as you can, because there are absolutely critical scenes in there. like the extended bowie scene that shows you what happened after he disappeared.

akm, Saturday, 17 July 2021 22:27 (four months ago) link

the Widow Milford plot was really brutal in my last rewatch, boring, pointless, and super gross/offensive.

also think quite an affecting performance is given by the shocked and mourning friend of Heavy Metal Youth.

agreed, they just wanted to get out of Moses Lake!

JoeStork, Saturday, 17 July 2021 22:43 (four months ago) link

uh that was intended to be a quote, oh well

JoeStork, Saturday, 17 July 2021 22:44 (four months ago) link

four months pass...

It's happy hour in France.

Sporting with the Fbclid (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 25 November 2021 01:43 (one week ago) link

Bobby, you're wanted in the office.

Sporting with the Fbclid (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 25 November 2021 01:43 (one week ago) link


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