Thomas Friedman, why don't you break up?

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OK, so I read *From Beirut to Jerusalem* and thought it was pretty fair, but it was 10 years ago, and besides, what do I know? Haven't followed his career too closely but I noticed post911 he adopted a reactionary position, US uber alles. Just reminded of the fact by his latest editorial in the NYT where he tells China in a very pandering manner what they can do with themsleves. So, TF, was he ever good, and if so, when did he jump the shark? Thoughts? Side note: has Edward Said been at all vocal lately? I know that (unfortunately) he is ill. Does he have anything interesting and/or helpful to say about the world situation?

Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

He is the single most about the NYT. He is a nasty bigot and a vicious pro-apartheid zionist as well.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:05 (eighteen years ago) link

pro-apartheid zionist

Actually he seems to have become disillusioned with the current Israeli government (it took him a while, but...) and actually criticizes Sharon a fair bit in his recent columns.

Why do you call him a bigot? Perhaps there is evidence, but that's a strong accusation.

I wrote a negative review of From Beirut to Jerusalem in 10th grade. I still think he's a terrible writer.

Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

did that peace deal he came up with with that Saudi prince really have as much momentum as was made of it at the time or was it just NY Times editorial board 'we matter, we get things done' hype a la Augusta National?

please quote some examples of his bigotry

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

And what do you mean by Zionist in this context?

And can someone help me get this bag of worms open?

Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll dig up some quotes. I need to find his 12/9/01 article. That's when he really entered my conciousness.

He is very pro-Isreal both as a fact and concept.

I'm going out now.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate the feeling you get reading any of his columns that he KNOWS the situation is more complicated, nuanced, and painful than he's making out; but he's gliding past it all with whatever bullshit metaphor he's drummed up that week for that situation. "It's like shopping for eggs, you see..." (nb I made this one up).

(Said has been on point with the righteous anger and white-hot vituperation for the bush administration [I love it when he just cuts through and calls a bushadmin figure "stupid"] but sadly there's not much there other than "we should do something about all this.")

g.cannon (gcannon), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

haha! "It's like shopping for eggs, you see..."!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link

He needs a beating, badly. To me he represents the epitome of underinformed, overopinionated America--too many cocktails at a party, babbling about the "New Economy" and putting Norah Jones on the stereo.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:27 (eighteen years ago) link

ilx in effect! Zionism to Norah Jones in 8 posts!!

g.cannon (gcannon), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 20:31 (eighteen years ago) link!!!

*dundun DUNNNNNN*

Grow up.

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks, Girolamo. Would you like one?

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:33 (eighteen years ago) link

What I object to is th e fact that despite the good intentions of the founders of the state of Israel, the result is an aparteid state far more pernicious than south africa ever was.

suzy (suzy), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Ed not suzy

Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Like we couldn't tell, Ed! There were no good stories about Sharon.

I hope this statement won't bother anyone, but: I'm continually amazed that "Zionism" as a concept is given quite as much credit as it is parts of the Western world. It strikes me as strongly opposed to a lot of core "Western values" -- in a lot of senses it's sectarian or specifically religiously derived; nationalist and, in its vision, sort of bound to be segregationist; etc. In theory it should be at least somewhat incompatible with the supposed principles of mainstream western thought, if not radically so.

(Since this might just turn into a discussion of "What is Zionism" I'll note that before posting that paragraph I looked at the Zionism entry at the Jewish Virtual Library, which reduces to: "the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.")

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, this is an argument about a particular ethnic-religious group laying both spiritual and sovereign, political claim over a piece of land. How, intellectually, do we distinguish that from, let's say, white-supremacy arguments that make the same sort of claim elsewhere? (I am not necessarily trying to equate the two: I'm honestly wondering what sorts of tools we can use to separate the two.)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I have no in herent objection to Jewish immigration to the Levant but theyhave to respect the fact that dispite the historical attachemnt there was a population there before the Jews or at least between 60 and 1948 CE

Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Perhaps we can speak of Zionisms. This may be dodging the subject, but Zionism was around for a while before it was universally understood to mean a nationalism that favored a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Some early Zionists looked elsewhere. Also, not all Zionisms wanted Jewish sovereignty over the Holy Land. Some just encouraged emigration (and coexistence), as much for the reason of Jewish persecution in Europe as any virtues of the Holy Land as related in the Torah and elsewhere.

However I'm not prepared to defend a state wherein a majority is privileged in law as they are in Israel. Apartheid is the appropriate term, although not of much use when trying to mend fences or make peace treaties. One big problem for me is that the state of Israel--dedicated as it is to Jewish sovereignty over an (increasingly large) part of the Holy Land--has sort of coopted Zionism and a large chuck of Jewish identity along with it. In fact c. 1948 there were many Jews in Palestine, Europe, and the United States who were opposed to the "war of independence."

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:09 (eighteen years ago) link

The inherent problem with the term is that it is used interchangably with anyone who has any ties or supports Israel in any way at all. And if you're gonna use it today at the same standards it was used when Herzl was writing about it, it's quite obvious how absurd such usage is. Does everyone who lives in America, especially the west and midwest, consider themselves a "Manifest Destinist"? We're beyond that concept now. It has historical relevance, but it can't be applied to Americans today in regards to land that has already been the locus of a migration.

Umberto Eco wrote a wonderful essay regarding geographic demographics and migration; I believe it's the fifth one in "Five Moral Pieces".

The point is, whether or not you agree with the fundamental philosophy which fostered Zionism, the migration already happened, the people are there now. It's been fifty years since the state was established. To call them Zionists still would be like calling Andrew Jackson a revolutionary and traitor to the British.

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link

This actually reminds me a touch about how one of the stupidest slogans of the eighties was 'Whites Out of South Africa.' Where the hell did people think they were supposed to go, the Netherlands?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Ned is right, but I still love 'We hate you white South African bastards' as an album title.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Where the hell did people think they were supposed to go, the Netherlands?

Actually, many white farmers in Zimbabwe are leaving for the UK, so it's not inconceivable, although it should be.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 02:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I know a whole bunch who have gone to Cork. They don't even have Irish roots! They just thought it looked nice.

(btw. there is no 'white' in that Microdisney album title, but I always add in my head)

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 February 2003 02:05 (eighteen years ago) link

friedman has criticized Sharon, yes, and that's nice as far as that goes. in the minds of the hardcore Likudniks, it's probably enough to earn him the epithet "self-hating Jew" but Likudniks are assholes anyway.

his position towards goyim criticizing Israel, however, isn't that far removed from an ipso facto assumption that any non-Jew that criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite. friedman's position seems to be, "if you feel you must criticize Israel, then you should list every other country in the Mideast that abuses human rights." i hope that i don't have to explain precisely why this argument is a classic red herring (i will anyway -- we aren't pissing off Muslim extremists because we turn a blind eye to, say, Syrian human rights abuses; not to mention the fact that it's no excuse that it's no excuse to Israeli human rights abuses that Syria or any other Mideast country also abuses human rights). at any rate, this position isn't much of an improvement on the usual "if you criticize Israel you're an anti-Semite" bullshit.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 03:30 (eighteen years ago) link

(n.b.: the real hardcore Likudnik asshole on the NYT editorial pages is Bill Safire -- who seems to have lately devoted his columns to memos to Sharon as to how nastily he can treat the Palestinians. maybe it's because Safire is such a skin-crawling creep [his stance on Israel notwithstanding] and people religiously avoid reading his columns therefor that he doesn't get his own thread bashing him?)

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 03:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, it's probably not worth wasting a lot of spleen on Safire, since he's unredeemable. Interestingly some of the most fervent supporters of Sharon (or worse, of Netanyahu) come not from the Jewish community but from the hard right--or worse, the Christian right (a very funny phenomenon in itself).

I haven't noticed the anti-Semite-baiting specifically in Friedman's columns, but that's because I've ignored them lately. That attitude--and the red herring you mention--is certainly prevalent on the op ed pages of American newspapers. The ADL (Anti-Defamation League) is particularly good at couching this lame argument in terms that don't seem as outrageous as they should.

There was a forum at the University of Chicago which was attended by Jews and Palestinians and others, meant to address the very issue you mention--it was called "On the Difference Between Anti-Semitism and Criticism of Israeli Policy." It was largely organized in response to this odious organization (see this page for a glaring series of misrepresentations of Israel-Palestian politics on the U of C campus). Unfortunately in my opinion the event was very poorly organized and degenerated into a screaming match.

There are groups around the country trying to widen the range of acceptable discourse among Jews -- such as Not in My Name. A few prominent local Jews in Chicago have tried to blackball this and other groups, temporarily keeping them from having speakers at certain colleges and synagogues, but in general the trend has been for previously wary congregations to accept speakers from NIMN, Yesh Gvul, etc.

I think it's very promising. The problem you identify still remains, but steps have been taken. The gulf between Jewish and other critics of Israel was once very large; I could sense that from attending both NIMN events and Palestinian-American political events. But increasingly I see dialogue happening, between the Jewish community (and not just the Jewish left) and other critics of Israel.

Sorry to go on so long. It's an issue I feel strongly about. Hopefully the ADL won't come up again, because my skin will boil.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 03:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Regarding my first graf: some of the strangest political bedfellows of recent years have been the formerly liberal ADL and the Christian right, taking out ads together damning NIMN and promoting the hard line in Israeli politics (they appear in the NYT every so often, and probably other places). Just one more reason the ADL can su--

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 03:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha ... that is too much. What is with those people? They really have a vendetta against Said and Khalidi. I used to work for Khalidi, and really, he's a teddy bear.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 20 February 2003 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link

If you contact them (not easy to do, since they don't post an email address on their web site), they'll deny that they have any political agenda whatever; they'll tell you that they are just trying to keep political discourse on campus open, etc. When in fact they are doing just the opposite. They also claim to verify the information submitted to their website, but it's obvious they do no such thing--there's no accountability for the slander they post day in and day out. To their credit, however, when an article or letter comes out in another publication that pertains to Campus Watch, they'll link to it, even if it's not favorable.

I remember hanging out with Khalidi's daughter when I was little, while my mom and her dad were at political meetings. They had Free Palestine stickers and I remember being taken a little aback, having been given the standard "Palestinians are evil" line in the first few years of Hebrew school. (The racist things that would come out of my Hebrew school teachers' mouths are not fit to print, in some cases.)

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 04:06 (eighteen years ago) link

some of the strangest political bedfellows of recent years have been the formerly liberal ADL and the Christian right, taking out ads together damning NIMN and promoting the hard line in Israeli politics

yeah, didn't the ADL use to monitor the Christian right? it is sad to see how they've degenerated, and how otherwise-OK folks affiliated with them have been tainted both by the ADL and defending the Likud (Dershowitz comes immediately to mind, but I digress).

it is good that some Jewish people realize that the Christian Right really aren't their friends, or true friends of Israel. the Jesus Freaks only "support" Israel because Israel has to exist (and the Temple has to be rebuilt) for the End Times -- and when that happens, any Jews who don't convert will die (who needs Hitler when Jesus is going to do the dirty work)? the real crime is that these religious fanatic wackos are driving foreign policy.

(n.b.: i agree that the smear job done to Said -- not to mention Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky -- has been truly disgusting. which doesn't mean that i agree 100% with any of the foregoing, but i do dislike the endless character assassinations that they have had to put up with from the Israel-über-alles claque.)

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 February 2003 04:12 (eighteen years ago) link

The ADL is a tough organization to criticize, because their rooted in B'nai Brith (never the most liberal of Jewish organizations, but its done a lot of good work over the past 150 years) and because their stated aim is to identify and squelch anti-Semitism worldwide. The problem is that (1) they identify it all out of proportion with its actual existence in the world, helping to entrench the pervasive -- and mostly false -- sense of righteous victimhood in the American Jewish community (2) when identifying they fail to distinguish two forms of anti-Semitism, the kind rooted in prewar European anti-Semitism, and the kind inspired and fanned by the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Broadly speaking this is ingrained-cultural vs. political-situational anti-S. Obviously there are overlaps (witness the Egyptian TV show which incorporated scenes from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion), but I really think they are two phenomena. This deliberate obscuring of the realities serves their interest of crying "anti-Semitism" whenever a critic of the Israeli right pops up.

They also have those "diversity workshops" (is it "Teaching Tolerance"?) in high schools--I attended one such--which are totally banal and useless.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 04:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Sorry for overposting and getting off-topic to boot.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 05:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah they publish these random articles from people I've never heard of denouncing those guys, sprinked with unattributed quotes (I mean to say no citation for the quote; i forget the correct term and I'm tired), and expect it to look unbiased? Since when is it wrong for a professor to have a political opinion anyway? The way some of those articles make it sound, Khalidi is going around brainwashing students and suppressing dissenting opinions. Heck, I don't even know if he teaches anymore, I thought he just ran the center for international studies.

Yeah Dershowitz. I used to be a big fan of his, oh well. Safire isn't half as smart as he thinks he is. Friedman I'd like to read but more often than not I just skip over, which is really too bad. It's sad because even with some of my friends I've gotten this 'criticism of israel'=anti-semitism vibe. I was sort of thinking about how this might play into that "Ireland/Italy and America" thread that was going a while back. Obviously in this case there are way more complicated issues in play; the binding tie of religion, the establishment of Israel being a recent historical occurance, etc. I guess what in one case is a romanticization, in another becomes a protectiveness, a defensiveness.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 20 February 2003 05:29 (eighteen years ago) link

My smart-ass little sister says "I think if they can't live together nicely, then we should make them all move to Utah so we can go and see Israel and all of the historical stuff and they can continue squabbling out of the way." The scary thing is that I can see her point.

I am not anti-Semitic, in any sense, but I do have difficulties with the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli government, and how such actions are either outright condoned or conveniently overlooked by the U.S. Government. I do think that Apartheid is the correct concept in this situation - and I can see both sides, to some extent. I can understand the anger and frustration of the Palestinians and I can understand the fear of the Israelis. What I cannot understand is why it is that two groups, with damn identical ancestors back in Biblical times, can't grow-up and quit acting like hot-headed adolescents squabbling and going-off half-cocked and all (er, sorry for that wording).

Basically, lots of shitty things have been done on both sides - hell, on all sides if you look at the actions of other countries in support of either side. But at some point we people need to get past this finger-pointing and name-calling and "let's just keep killing each other a fostering a sense of hatred and fear and anger" and say "Okay, here we are. And none of us are remotely happy with the situation. Now what can we do to rectify things so that we can at least live without being in fear 24/7?"

Yes, I know that the Israeli's say that they can't trust Arafat, and I think they're right - he is proving to be fairly ineffectual (though that doesn't mean that he's not trustworthy, just that he's not really helpful right now) and the Palestinian's say they don't trust Sharon, and they're right, too - he should be tried on crimes against humanity for what happened in the camps. So the people need to get new, sane leaders into office and agree that they (the people) will accept and work within a framework of peace.
Right now, though, I think that the two populations are so angry and scared that they cannot see any possible way of rectifing the situation. And that they're not being offered leaders that might be able to get the peace-talks moving, again. And this is horrible, and unacceptable. And I don't know what to suggest doing to make things better.

But I do think about making Jerusalem an "International" city - run by the U.N., with peace-keepers and such - basically "if you two kids can't quit squabbling over this toy (Jerusalem) then we're going to take it away and neither of you can have it until you learn to share." Isn't that what our parents and teachers told us? And didn't it, in most cases, work?

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Thursday, 20 February 2003 05:54 (eighteen years ago) link

On the march I saw a pro-Palestine banner saying something like "Original Canaanites"!

BTW is the "From the sea to the river - Palestine forever" slogan the Muslim Association of Britain had on its banners just a coded way of calling for the destruction of Israel? It disturbed me a bit.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 20 February 2003 10:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow, I didn't know Friedman was such an easy target. Consensus, I am happy.

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 20 February 2003 14:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm surprised my one statement meant to start an argument, didn't:

One big problem for me is that the state of Israel--dedicated as it is to Jewish sovereignty over an (increasingly large) part of the Holy Land--has sort of coopted Zionism and a large chuck of Jewish identity along with it.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:28 (eighteen years ago) link

It'd be hard for me to argue with that statement because, as an American athiest, I don't really dig any state that's not secular.

Safire is such an idiot. He's still apologizing for Tricky Dick's anti-Semitism. We know he got you the speechwritin' job, Bill, but that doesn't make him not an asshole!

hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Bad Amateurist, trying to start arguments on my one happy consensus thread.

Safire is beyond the pale.

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I still read him, and Friedman too. I guess it's for the same reason I read the Wall Street Journal op-ed page.

hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link


Mary (Mary), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

But Mr. Stencil, Israel is a secular state; just one that privileges a certain nationality. (Like the US, there has been a rightward drift in recent years accompanied by lots of pandering to the religious fundamentalists, but that doesn't make it a theocracy by any means. Israeli law is based on American-European models, not the Torah.)

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

You got it, Mary.

Amateurist, if non-Jewish Israelis (and by this I don't mean the Palestinians in the occupied territories, although they support my argument as well) were treated as well as Jewish Israelis, I'd agree with you. Codified or not, there is a major difference between both, which is good enough for me for it to qualify as a non-secular state.

hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyone who's against 'Manifest Destiny' is a self-hating American

dave q, Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:56 (eighteen years ago) link

B-but the definition of Jewishness per Israeli law is not religious, it's national. I don't know if it makes a moral difference, but it's not the same thing in fact.

The mistreatment of Arab Israelis has always gone on, but it's gotten much worse since the recent intifada. Which has had the effect of radicalizing the Arab Israeli population. I believe we saw the first such suicide bomber a few months ago.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Which is funny 'cause most 'Mericans couldn't even tell you under which president's administration did America annex the most territory via bloodshed.

(Answer: James K. Polk)

hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link

In other words: chauvinist, yes - theocratic, no.

(But Mr. Stencil, he has a salad named after him!)

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2003 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

"Are you ready for some Polk Salad Surgery?"

Tony Joe Emerson, Thursday, 20 February 2003 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link

B-but the definition of Jewishness per Israeli law is not religious, it's national.

Could you explain what that means? I'm not sure I get it.

The government condoning, as well as paying for, Jewish Israelis building settlements on the land of non-Jewish Israelis or even technically non-Israelis (i.e. those in the "Occupied Territories") seems to be a pretty blatant action based around being non-secular.

(So how does Polk Salad Annie figure into all this?)

hstencil, Thursday, 20 February 2003 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha, this discussion is exactly why I just said something vague about its having sectarian "premises" or "impulses" or whatever.

The sad problem with the impulse Laura points out is that even then there's so much work to be done: even if we imagine both leaderships at the table in full good faith, it still has to be decided what really constitutes a valid and workable compromise. And it's daunting to think this can even be done, because it's impossible to think of the situation as really having two equal "sides." You have (a) a Palestinian leadership that doesn't even have much authority to make agreements on behalf of its people, as plenty of them are in open opposition to it, and (b) an slanted bargaining table, on which Israel holds 54 cards to begin with, and the only one Palestine holds are the really sad joker of terrorism (which everyone frowns on and affords Israel a "legitimate" right to exercise more of their might) and international sympathy, which is about as helpful as a 2 of spades.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 20 February 2003 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Kids, this is what it was like.

— mattgallagher0 (@MattGallagher0) August 20, 2021

mookieproof, Friday, 20 August 2021 13:05 (four months ago) link

middle east expert thomas friedman

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 13:10 (four months ago) link

i can't fucking BELIEVE i read the world is flat

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 13:11 (four months ago) link

"It's far away."

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:24 (four months ago) link

The World is Flat is from 2005. i wonder if afghanistan opened him up to that? he was like, wait a second, the world IS far away. and it is also flat

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:55 (four months ago) link

hey there, lorryman! how flat are these roads, to you?

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:55 (four months ago) link

"interesting...he uses technology and it changes how he operates"

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:56 (four months ago) link

nexts day's column:


professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 14:57 (four months ago) link

I’m rereading this line and contorting my face in a number of ways

Check the map. It’s far away.

mh, Friday, 20 August 2021 15:29 (four months ago) link

*checks the map. checks the scale. confirms far*

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:30 (four months ago) link

thomas friedman spins the globe. around and around it goes. he puts the finger on it and stops it on the other side, right on afghanistan. he checks the scale

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:30 (four months ago) link

he furiously pulls out his palm pilot and with quaking hands writes a note to remember for the morning: "it's far away"

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:32 (four months ago) link

Aghanistan...istan so far away

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:33 (four months ago) link

It is beyond my powers of imagination that "give war a chance" was ever written or published unironically.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:44 (four months ago) link

is he dead yet

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:46 (four months ago) link

He was awarded the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for Commentary "for his clarity of vision, based on extensive reporting, in commenting on the worldwide impact of the terrorist threat".

This is Afghanistan we're talking about. Check the map. It's far away.

jmm, Friday, 20 August 2021 15:56 (four months ago) link

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 15:58 (four months ago) link

This is his super villain speech

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 20 August 2021 16:15 (four months ago) link

The world is bubble

jmm, Friday, 20 August 2021 16:34 (four months ago) link

i was going to post that speech but i felt too much second hand embarrassment to even copy the link once i looked it up

criminally negligible (harbl), Friday, 20 August 2021 16:51 (four months ago) link

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:01 (four months ago) link

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:18 (four months ago) link

But what if humanity tried giving war a chance? Has anyone thought of that?

jmm, Friday, 20 August 2021 17:20 (four months ago) link

war, while it poses many downsides, has been responsible for many advances. the drone technology that was developed to fight terrorism in the middle east has been adapted to deliver amazon packages to consumers. so overall, a complicated issue, not 'all good' or 'all bad'.

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:30 (four months ago) link

war - what if it's good for some people

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:47 (four months ago) link

commercial innovation per war death is higher than innovation per civilian death

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:48 (four months ago) link

there is a common perception that companies are REQUIRED to maximize profit over all other prioritized. although i have skimmed a full page of google search results of op-eds suggesting that it isn't technically true, let's face, it's fucking true

professional anti- (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 August 2021 17:52 (four months ago) link

My colostomy bag is smarter and has more nuance than Thomas Friedman

heyy nineteen, that's john belushi (the table is the table), Monday, 23 August 2021 22:04 (four months ago) link

two months pass...

not a joke, incredibly

mookieproof, Monday, 1 November 2021 19:03 (two months ago) link

I saw that today and actually burst out laughing in bed, waking up my partner in the process.

I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 1 November 2021 19:22 (two months ago) link

Friedman started coasting so long ago he came to a complete standstill in 2010

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 1 November 2021 19:23 (two months ago) link

by 2015 he was encrusted with fungus

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 1 November 2021 19:26 (two months ago) link

“i’m sure they would buddy! hey have you cleaned your room yet?”

— edie (@multiplebears) November 1, 2021

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 2 November 2021 10:07 (two months ago) link

We’ve never seen this tactic before from Beijing: We’ll clean our air, but only if you let us buzz Taiwan’s airspace and choke off the air of freedom in Hong Kong.

He is so good at metaphors.

jmm, Tuesday, 2 November 2021 13:06 (two months ago) link

The earth is FLAT, don't you know.

I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Tuesday, 2 November 2021 18:20 (two months ago) link

two months pass...

My column: Biden-Cheney 2024?

— Thomas L. Friedman (@tomfriedman) January 12, 2022

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 14:18 (one week ago) link


mookieproof, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 14:20 (one week ago) link

great job on the pin, NYT graphics dept

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 14:33 (one week ago) link

Pretty sure we are being punked.

jimbeaux, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 14:40 (one week ago) link

Imagine The Consensus! The Alignment!


Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 15:22 (one week ago) link


jimbeaux, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 15:24 (one week ago) link


what a fool

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 12 January 2022 16:23 (one week ago) link

Thomas Friedman, professional wise man, dreams things that never were and asks, "why not?"

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 18:25 (one week ago) link

I haven't actually read the column and don't see any need to, I'm just going to imagine it takes the form of a conversation with a commonsense taxi driver — an aspiring immigrant putting his son through Harvard by driving 23 hours a day and trading in crypto between fares, who just doesn't understand why "those people can't work together for all of us."

Saving a democratic system requires huge political sacrifice, added Levitsky. “It means A.O.C. campaigning for Liz Cheney” and it means Liz Cheney “putting on the shelf” many policy goals she and other Republicans cherish. “But that is what it takes, and if you don’t do it, just look back and see why democracy collapsed in countries like Germany, Spain and Chile. The democratic forces there should have done it, but they didn’t.”

Liz Cheney or facism. Not a choice, but an echo.

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 January 2022 19:43 (one week ago) link

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