Magic: The Gathering C/D

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Anyone still play it, or any other collectable card game? Even if it were not designed to extract huge amounts of money from players, it is an extreme dud. And it has the most absurdly complex rules for anything I have ever seen.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Me and a few mates used to play a supremley bastardized version of Portal (you know, Magic for beginners?), simply using the cards we had and discarding all kinds of rules. It was enormous fun.

We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players who came and wanted to play w/ us and they were very anal about all the rules and also they actually had decks with, y'know, a strategy. Plus protection for all the cards and they wouldn't stop talking about rare cards and such- I'm a geek, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere. So now it's dud.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

More dud than genital warts. At least genital warts implies sex.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

That sentence was supposed to go "At least genital warts implies sex has been had at some point in your life." Ooops.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:15 (seventeen years ago) link

>We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players

Yeah, Magic is a game that completely falls apart when people start to take it seriously. It quickly becomes that only certain cards in certain types of decks have a chance of winning, and often in very boring, cheepo, lucky-draw fashion.

Casual play is ok, but is still too expensive.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Lots of fun if played with somewhat random decks but totally sux if anyone's taking it seriously. The whole suspended reality thing hits me pretty hard so I really get into the cards.

toraneko (toraneko), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm still into the casual play aspect and mostly out of competitive play. Expensiveness of it all = clearly dud though.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:14 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (seventeen years ago) link

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (seventeen years ago) link

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (seventeen years ago) link

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (sixteen years ago) link

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (sixteen years ago) link

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (fifteen years ago) link

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (fifteen years ago) link

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (twelve years ago) link

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (twelve years ago) link

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (twelve years ago) link

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (twelve years ago) link

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (twelve years ago) link

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (twelve years ago) link

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (twelve years ago) link

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (twelve years ago) link

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (twelve years ago) link

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (twelve years ago) link

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (twelve years ago) link

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (twelve years ago) link

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (twelve years ago) link

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (twelve years ago) link

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (twelve years ago) link

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (twelve years ago) link

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (twelve years ago) link

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (twelve years ago) link

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (twelve years ago) link

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (twelve years ago) link

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic93875_t.jpg

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (twelve years ago) link

ok that Flagbearer thing might be one of the worst Limited mechanics of all time, just straight up blanks a bunch of your deck

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:10 (four weeks ago) link

the 1/1 is just kinda samite healer level annoying but the 2/4 is a mess to deal with

ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:42 (four weeks ago) link

if you're not in black there are very few ways to get rid of it. super annoying because Invasion block is full of "target creature gets XXX" effects and good creature enchantments

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:52 (four weeks ago) link

It's a cool design but blanks too many cards in practice, yeah. I think that way more common in the old days - cards that have interesting abilities but end up not actually being that fun for play

To my surprise, I've actually been enjoying Ikoria draft on Arena more than the last couple sets. Maybe I'm a Timmy at heart because I find it fun to mutate into big monsters (and the mechanic has more decisions than I thought). I also like how most of the Companions greatly affect your draft decisions, but I know not everyone enjoys that tension. If they ever put Ikoria on Quick Draft, they'll have to tune the bots to prioritize RW cycling highly, or else everyone will draft it every time

Vinnie, Thursday, 7 May 2020 00:09 (three weeks ago) link

I lied earlier, ended up playing a shameful number of Ikoria drafts. Was similarly surprised, format turned out pretty fun for limited. In my best run I went 7-0 with the GB cost reducer companion guy and other creatures only in the deck. I have now uninstalled Arena to stave off further time spent in a drafting trance. Will reinstall when the next set drops. Glad I don't play constructed, all my free time would be consumed by Arena, probably.

davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 12:58 (three weeks ago) link

Also wishing I could sell my Arena account for a decent price, having all these wildcards and a good collection and zero interest in constructed, but the secondhand market hasn't to a place where it'd be worth it.

davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 13:01 (three weeks ago) link

*gotten to

davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 13:01 (three weeks ago) link

i'm getting the itch to play again but gonna try to wait until the fall set to go all in

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 May 2020 14:34 (three weeks ago) link

yeah it's a fun set, very swingy and almost cube-like in how big plays can just come out of nowhere. I think that playing it on MTGO/Arena paper over the set's main flaw, that it's just too complex and requires a pretty comprehensive knowledge of the rule book. it's not just Mutate creatures with walls of text or the fact that you're frequently stacking 3+ triggers, it's the fact that all these different keywords and abilities interact in strange ways - for example Monstrous Step on a Menace creature forcing your opponent to double block even when they don't want to

frogbs, Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:42 (three weeks ago) link

Ya, the conveniences of the online platforms (enforcing rules, remembering triggers, pairing up matches quickly etc.) make me wonder whether there's a bright future for paper magic, or at least whether I'll play much paper magic in the future.

davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 22:30 (three weeks ago) link

i think magic fades away in like 5-10 years max if they stop making the paper game

ciderpress, Thursday, 7 May 2020 23:25 (three weeks ago) link

Mutate is probably the first time I'm not happy with how they handled the look for a mechanic on Arena. They're usually pretty good about making it intuitive, but it should have looked a bit more like paper, where you could hover over a mutated creature and see the whole stack of cards easily. Putting all the abilities on the top card becomes too hard to read past two creatures. And putting the names of the Under creatures on the top with no link to the actual card is next to useless

And yes, much more complex interactions than previous sets. I don't know why they put cards like Monstrous Step, Mystic Subdual, and Reptilian Reflection (try mutating onto it, over or under) in this set. There's also some incidental counters, for example Blood Curdle, that are easy to miss

Vinnie, Thursday, 7 May 2020 23:57 (three weeks ago) link

so my latest sealed pool has a Quartzwood Crusher and Jengantha. obviously my deck is better if I start with the Jengantha in my hand every game but it means I can't play a bomb rare that's in my colors. laaaame

frogbs, Sunday, 10 May 2020 01:00 (three weeks ago) link

god Lutri is so busted in Limited, it's like starting with 9 cards in your hand every game. just a whole new level of broken

frogbs, Monday, 11 May 2020 20:43 (three weeks ago) link

Lutri is obv worth the usually minuscule tradeoff of not playing duplicates, but I did have a RW cycling deck that I had to severely weaken when I picked up Lutri in pack 3, to the point where I'm not sure I even should have

Vinnie, Monday, 11 May 2020 23:26 (three weeks ago) link

I've played most of the Companions in draft but never managed to make a Lurrus deck until today. I am used to passing him but today I was going RW cycling and only had the 2-mana payoffs when I saw him in pack 2 - only card I had to cut was a Marmoset. I even ended up splashing an Ominous Seas but never got to make an 8/8. One of the best and most fun decks I've had this format

Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 04:48 (three weeks ago) link

Companion creates some super awkward deckbuilding decisions in Limited, like wtf am I supposed to do with this

https://i.imgur.com/LRnSVST.png

wound up using Jegantha as a companion and just having to sideline two bomb rares

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 14:19 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah you've mentioned that a couple times and I think most people also hate those kinds of Sophie's choice decisions in deckbuilding that Companions cause more than usual, but I stupidly enjoy them

Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 16:03 (three weeks ago) link

starting with a bomb in your hand is worth having 3 in your deck is the way I see it

funny you mention Ominous Seas - maybe not first pick worthy but way better in this format that I would have expected. for one, there's a ton of card draw, even beyond the cycling stuff. with 3 Fire Prophecies and a Facet Reader, plus some cycling cards, if I play it Turn 2 it looms large right away. secondly, the games in this format tend to be pretty long. thirdly, it has cycling itself, which I actually didn't know until I actually played it

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 17:02 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah I think that's about right, most are worth greatly altering your draft for. In addition to getting it guaranteed every game, you can also plan your gameplay well, e.g. ensuring you reserve a good spell to copy with Lutri, or as I just did, trading off your creatures before you drop Lurrus

If it didn't have cycling, I'm not sure Seas would be playable but yes, it has strongly performed. I played against a deck which only played AFAICT three Seas and then all cyclers and draw spells, maybe one removal spell. They made a total of 5 8/8s before I lost

Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 23:53 (three weeks ago) link

yea Lutri + a card like Rockslide or Mutual Destruction is just game over a lot of the time

Lurrus is the one I'm not sure if I could make work as a Companion (unless I p1p1'd it) but holy shit is it an obnoxious card in combination with Dead Weight & Sleeper Dart. the fact that they gave it Lifelink as well is just lol

the more I play this format the more I realize that being Human is a significant downside, not being able to ramp into your mutate dudes or get the counter from those uncommon keyword lords seems to come into play a lot. otoh the presence of Mutate makes stuff like Durable Coilbug way more playable, I'm wondering if stuff like the 2/4 2G Vigilance dude is better than it looks

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 14:55 (three weeks ago) link

also I just listened to a podcast arguing that Companion is the worst mechanic of all time, as it hits a bad mechanic Bingo - all 10 cards are being played, several are likely to be banned, it breaks a fundamental rule of the game, & they're non-interactive, since you can't make your opponent discard them and many of them provide an immediate benefit so removal doesn't really help. it definitely warps Limited, even though they're all rares - I'd really like to see the MTGO stats on how often a deck with a Companion beats one without, I know from my own personal results that my win percentage is like, 20 points higher when I've got one. and that's in a format where Companion's downside is pretty significant.

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 17:08 (three weeks ago) link

it also might produce the first card(s) banned in vintage for power level reasons as restricting doesn't work on a mechanic that bypasses the library

ciderpress, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 20:46 (three weeks ago) link

I thought the same re: Lurrus in limited, frogbs, but now that I've made the deck and played against a couple of Lurrus decks, it's definitely strong enough given the right set of cards. In addition to the two commons you mentioned, Springjaw Trap is also excellent. Just draft a few of the many cards that let you return a creature from the GY to keep Lurrus around and it's an extremely consistent strategy. I don't play much Constructed but I'm already getting a little bored of them in Limited so I can imagine how boring it must be in Constructed

Not much payoff for Humans, is there? I made a double Sanctuary Lockdown deck once, and I like having a couple early Humans if I have Of One Mind. Otherwise, non-Humans all the way. Most decks want Mosscoat Goriak over Alert Heedbonder, I believe

Vinnie, Thursday, 14 May 2020 00:04 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah that would be crazy to see a Vintage ban. Chaos Orb and Shahrazad need company

Vinnie, Thursday, 14 May 2020 00:06 (two weeks ago) link

Not much payoff for Humans, is there? I made a double Sanctuary Lockdown deck once

lol I actually have never seen this card before.

frogbs, Thursday, 14 May 2020 01:09 (two weeks ago) link

okay after 11 straight match losses I think I am finally done with this format

just sick of constantly getting bodyslammed by bomb rares and decks that perfectly mutate curve out, having to play against the same stupid companions every single game, playing game after game where I either draw 2 lands or 12.

seriously I think I've gone 2-7 and 3-6 in every friendly sealed outside of the ones where I go 5-1 and get swept in round 3, I have never had a run like this in any format

frogbs, Friday, 15 May 2020 18:52 (two weeks ago) link

lol make that 13 straight matches, 18 straight games

my deck actually isn't that bad, I have all the same bombs as everyone else, they just immediately get killed

frogbs, Friday, 15 May 2020 19:10 (two weeks ago) link

You're talking about sealed or draft? I haven't played sealed this format but it seems like you're gonna run into Companions way more than with draft, and sealed is always more weighted towards seeing bombs

Though I feel you about the losing streak. My first five or six Ikoria drafts were poor, including a couple 0-3s, and I was tempted to write off the format but I still found the cards fun so I kept playing and losing. then I watched Ben Stark on Twitch and saw that RW basically HAS to be cycling, UR HAS to be spells-matter, etc. Format is very non-intuitive, a lot of cards that look good are not and vice versa. I went on a string of 7-x drafts after that

Vinnie, Saturday, 16 May 2020 00:06 (two weeks ago) link

Sealed and yeah I think with 6 packs and 10 companions you basically open one half the time. Whether you can make a deck with one is another thing

I'd be curious what exactly I'm missing here. I'm wondering if this is just one of those formats where Draft plays much better than Sealed, since basically all the best decks in Sealeds are 4/5-color bomb heavy mutate madness, unless you're lucky enough to get a good W/B human build. I seem to be forced into bad W/R/G decks a lot. I'm not sure if I'm just bad or unlucky. Would be curious what's better/worse than it looks

Farfinder is the obvious 'better than it looks' one, I think the "you can mutate this" factor is pretty huge with this card, since you can curve into all the good 4 CMC mutate guys and then the fact that it's 1/1 doesn't matter, whereas the vigilance definitely does. plus smoothing your mana is good, especially since the format is slow. Durable Coilbug also seems pretty good for a bear.

as far as trap cards...some of the mutate commons that don't provide immediate card advantage seem to be pretty bad. Vulpkeet & Cloudpiercer in particular. Everyone seems to play those cards but I avoid them when I can. I think people misplay Mutate a lot, I'm seeing them use it on a 3/3 when just playing the creature itself would put them in a better position. again, that's why Farfinder is so much better than it looks

frogbs, Saturday, 16 May 2020 01:39 (two weeks ago) link

sealed is the format with the most bad beats, that's not really specific to this set..

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 May 2020 02:22 (two weeks ago) link

Ikoria is the set I’ve drafted the least since coming back to Magic (exclusively on mtgo) a few years ago. I’ve not enjoyed it - although I don’t know whether that’s because of outside factors with everything going on, or because of the set itself. I don’t like the cycling deck being a thing, and I don’t like companion as a mechanic in limited.

AlanSmithee, Saturday, 16 May 2020 03:06 (two weeks ago) link

it seems like an unusually divisive one

ciderpress, Saturday, 16 May 2020 03:47 (two weeks ago) link

Hard to give a full list of what was better/worse than I thought, but the format is almost entirely a synergy format so the card values vary wildly based on what you're making. Checkpoint Officer, for example, would usually be a first pick in a regular RW format but RW cycling plays a very low land count and would prefer Drannith Healer. One-mana cycling cards have overperformed, cheap BG creatures that can be mutated on to have overperformed (Almighty Brushwagg, Boot Nipper, Durable Coilbug). White mutate is hard to put together so cards like Vulpakeet and even Cubwarden go down in value unless you happened to pick up a lot of non-Humans already. The expensive non-BG cyclers like Avian Oddity and Sanctuary Smasher have underperformed. Even Dead Weight and Pacifism have underperformed - sometimes they don't have good targets

Vinnie, Saturday, 16 May 2020 05:13 (two weeks ago) link

yeah I'm on board with pretty much all of that, though IMO the problem with Checkpoint Officer lies more in the fact that it costs 2 to activate instead of 1. Dead Weight & Pacifism still solid picks but yeah they don't exactly swing games. the Mutate guys essentially having haste makes sorcery speed removal less good.

sealed is the format with the most bad beats, that's not really specific to this set..

I've missed a few sets but there does seem to be an abnormally high number of bomb rares in this set, and since you can easily play 3+ colors in Sealed most deck have like 4 bombs in them. meanwhile I seem to open pools with 3 Triomes in them a lot. every match is just a slog, it's almost like Cube where crazy shit just comes out of nowhere. I am so sick of seeing that fucking gorilla every other matchup. also I seem to just be on a bad run of luck, I feel like my opponents get a free game every match when I can't draw my 3rd land or just get flooded with the one color I don't have. which I get is part of the game but lol not for the people I've been playing against

frogbs, Sunday, 17 May 2020 03:13 (two weeks ago) link

As soon as I wrote that, I realized that me calling it a first pick is too strong because usually W gets a one-mana activation tapper and Officer costing two to tap makes a big difference. Even at two mana I would expect it to be good in RW most formats, and here I'm unhappy if I have to play it. To that extent that for a while I missed that it's actually pretty good in BW

Another reason Pacifism is worse than usual is that it's sometimes the opponent still wants to Mutate everything onto one creature, and it doesn't really matter if it can't attack or block

Vinnie, Sunday, 17 May 2020 06:40 (two weeks ago) link

lol yeah I've definitely lost games to a creature I had locked down with a Capture Sphere, that Auspicious Starrix card is just insane sometimes. really fun to play with though.

speaking of tappers Frondland Felidar is such a stupid card, Vigilance + tapping is dumb by itself but when you got a whole army of them its not even a game anymore, you're on the Opposition level of "not fun to win with, really not fun to play against"

anyway I have gone on a bit of a winning streak since posting I was done with the format. then started 3-0 in a Sealed and ended 3-6. this format is so streaky. I'm not quitting until I live the dream of Cycling a Yidaro into play. I know I can do it

frogbs, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:31 (two weeks ago) link

I don't mind Felidar that much, but I also haven't played against it a ton. GW is the color combo I encounter the least, and even then I've rarely seen the opponent have more than one vigilance creature. But that could be a sealed/draft difference. Obv still a strong card

Zenith Flare is my bogeyman of the format. Stupidly good for an uncommon

Vinnie, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:05 (two weeks ago) link

there are a few commons in G/W with it, plus Farfinder & a few uncommon lords. plus the companion that gives a bunch of types +1/+1 and vigilance, I see those two together sometimes

from what I've seen the difference between sealed & draft is that draft decks are more focused & on theme while the best sealed decks are 3-5 colors and play 4+ bomb rares plus a bunch of big mutate dudes. B/W humans is hard to do (since you can't stockpile Whisper Squads), the cycling decks tend to spin their wheels a lot and generally suck. U/R spells is pretty good.

frogbs, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:44 (two weeks ago) link

btw I'm really starting to appreciate Forbidden Friendship - gives you a Mutate target, something for the Human triggers, a spell for Sprite Dragon, Mutual Destruction fodder....

frogbs, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 20:53 (two weeks ago) link

And sets up Of One Mind single-handedly, and it's a creature that helps Spelleater Wolverine. Yeah overall way overperformed for a sorcery speed Raise the Alarm

Vinnie, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 23:39 (two weeks ago) link

it's called dragon fodder

ciderpress, Thursday, 21 May 2020 01:34 (one week ago) link

lmao they just used the June 1st B/R update to change how companion works

now you can't cast it automatically, you instead have to pay 3 to put it in your hand

pretty crazy, I can't remember them ever errata'ing an entire mechanic like this. maybe when they changed the Urzas Saga 'free' spells to read "you actually have to cast it to untap the lands" but even that was more like "yeah obviously that's how this was *supposed* to work" instead of "whoops this is too good, let's straight up nerf it"

frogbs, Monday, 1 June 2020 17:44 (two days ago) link

looking at the banned cards, not sure what the issue with Agent of Treachery is (I don't play Standard) but Fires of Invention seems remarkably dumb, like Urza's-level "whats the worst that can happen" thinking

frogbs, Monday, 1 June 2020 17:51 (two days ago) link

it's not a broken card really, just an unpleasant effect to have at the center of the format. think of it as being like the reflector mage ban i guess

ciderpress, Monday, 1 June 2020 21:42 (two days ago) link

yeah idk what kind of mana accel there is but I can see a card like that effectively making a bunch of 4-6 CMC cards unplayable. the fact that killing the creature doesn't give you your permanent back seems like an important pretty safety valve to get rid of

frogbs, Monday, 1 June 2020 21:58 (two days ago) link

it's being cheated out on turn 4 or 5 (and then blinked for another steal via your yorion which is always available to follow it up every game)

ciderpress, Monday, 1 June 2020 22:25 (two days ago) link

yes I am proud of myself

https://i.imgur.com/DFc4NEN.png

frogbs, Wednesday, 3 June 2020 04:21 (seventeen hours ago) link

A frog and 4 otters

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 3 June 2020 04:28 (seventeen hours ago) link

I thought Lukka would get a ban. The Lukka/Omen of the Sun combo seems like it will work with something else, if it's not Agent of Treachery. Agent was a good ban though, it's become really unfun to play against. Companion change is really strange, like the kind of nerfing that Hearthstone does to individual cards

Vinnie, Wednesday, 3 June 2020 06:00 (sixteen hours ago) link


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