Magic: The Gathering C/D

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Anyone still play it, or any other collectable card game? Even if it were not designed to extract huge amounts of money from players, it is an extreme dud. And it has the most absurdly complex rules for anything I have ever seen.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Me and a few mates used to play a supremley bastardized version of Portal (you know, Magic for beginners?), simply using the cards we had and discarding all kinds of rules. It was enormous fun.

We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players who came and wanted to play w/ us and they were very anal about all the rules and also they actually had decks with, y'know, a strategy. Plus protection for all the cards and they wouldn't stop talking about rare cards and such- I'm a geek, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere. So now it's dud.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

More dud than genital warts. At least genital warts implies sex.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

That sentence was supposed to go "At least genital warts implies sex has been had at some point in your life." Ooops.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:15 (seventeen years ago) link

>We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players

Yeah, Magic is a game that completely falls apart when people start to take it seriously. It quickly becomes that only certain cards in certain types of decks have a chance of winning, and often in very boring, cheepo, lucky-draw fashion.

Casual play is ok, but is still too expensive.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Lots of fun if played with somewhat random decks but totally sux if anyone's taking it seriously. The whole suspended reality thing hits me pretty hard so I really get into the cards.

toraneko (toraneko), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm still into the casual play aspect and mostly out of competitive play. Expensiveness of it all = clearly dud though.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:14 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (seventeen years ago) link

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (seventeen years ago) link

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (seventeen years ago) link

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (fifteen years ago) link

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (fifteen years ago) link

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (fifteen years ago) link

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (twelve years ago) link

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (twelve years ago) link

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (twelve years ago) link

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (twelve years ago) link

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (twelve years ago) link

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (twelve years ago) link

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (twelve years ago) link

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (twelve years ago) link

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (twelve years ago) link

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (twelve years ago) link

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (twelve years ago) link

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (twelve years ago) link

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (twelve years ago) link

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (twelve years ago) link

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (twelve years ago) link

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (twelve years ago) link

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (twelve years ago) link

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (twelve years ago) link

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (twelve years ago) link

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (twelve years ago) link

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic93875_t.jpg

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (twelve years ago) link

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (twelve years ago) link

I love how those un-sets are basically just excuses to make neat concept cards that they wouldn't dare to in real Magic. I wonder how much of that set is made up of rejected stuff the Rules Manager killed. the Augment-Host stuff is really cool.

frogbs, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:28 (nine months ago) link

Plainswalkers ruined Magic for me and I had been playing since 1993. Just so dumb and overpowered, which has totally warped the game.

I miss the old days of playing for ante. THAT was pressure.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:33 (nine months ago) link

dunno about the un-sets since stores don't crack massive amounts of those to sell singles to tournament players, but most sets you can buy bulk commons/uncommons cheap which is a lot more economical than booster packs if you just want some cards to play with and don't care about the rares

ciderpress, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:35 (nine months ago) link

Haha PBKR, have played with the new set? Now more planeswalkers than ever!

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:38 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, we bought one of those paired Planeswalkers pre-built deck sets (our only foray into modern MtG), and were not super into that mechanic. I don't think we ever had a game where they both came out, so whoever got theirs out first basically won.

xp

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:38 (nine months ago) link

they work out fine in competitive play where decks are streamlined, but tend to be runaway one-card win conditions in casual play

ciderpress, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:41 (nine months ago) link

I haven’t played much in years and when I do it’s mostly a cube with limited infinity/type 4 rules (no lands/infinite mana/one spell per turn).

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:43 (nine months ago) link

That's a good idea, ciderpress xp

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:43 (nine months ago) link

my issue with the Planeswalker mechanic is that they treated it like a big and important development in the game that had to be popular, so they decided to make them stupidly overpowered to ensure people would play with them. the original 5 planeswalkers felt balanced to me but they went overboard really quick, especially since so many of them have a self-defense mechanism built in. sometimes it kinda reminds me of the old days where you'd face off against a Circle of Protection that completely ruined your game.

I still play Cube every now and then (mostly online) and it is pretty obnoxious how most games just become a battle of the Planeswalkers. they have an advantage built in since they don't have "summoning sickness" and there are so few ways to directly deal with one.

frogbs, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:51 (nine months ago) link

I feel like the uncommon planeswalkers in war of the spark are actually fantastic designs - they’re powerful enchantments that you can kill - which solves the normal issue of ‘enchantments are too hard to interact with’

iatee, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 18:13 (nine months ago) link

Ok we're going in on an Unstable cube, will report back

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 18:56 (nine months ago) link

xp

I think they are cool designs, and I definitely approve of wotc going all in on creative ideas. My only complaint is that they create a lot of board conditions that get difficult to track. I think for more casual players in particular, all the static drawbacks in play can end up making the game confusing and unfun.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:35 (nine months ago) link

Yeah I’ve found this format to be incredibly cube-like, both in game play and weird niche situations that come up. More so than the masters sets even, which had generally had powerful strategies that were very streamlined. Yesterday I lost to someone using the switch-creatures sorcery mid combat because they had a teferi.

iatee, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 22:15 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, this set is cube-like mostly because the complexity is through the roof. It must be the most complicated Standard set since Time Spiral block. The planeswalker passives make gameplay challenging to even play without accidentally breaking a rule. Pretty fun set, but still find I lose to bomb rares too often

Vinnie, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 22:50 (nine months ago) link

This set is... actually really fun to draft? Realising that you really, really, really want 2-drops helped a lot.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:04 (nine months ago) link

i dunno if i like sets with the 2 drop bottleneck, i still have lingering resentment from drafting gatecrash way too many times

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:19 (nine months ago) link

I bought a couple of unstable packs in Madison a week or so ago, they're a riot

WOTS is fun if to my mind a little simpler/easier than Allegiance but it's the Modern Horizons previews that're really punching my buttons

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:31 (nine months ago) link

We got our Unstable cards in the mail last night, also in Madison. I think it's the whole set plus a certain amount of doubles? I think the plan is to painstakingly examine every card before trying to figure out decks, but they look hella fun.

Gonna have to use the dog for the cards that require a person outside the game to make a decision.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:42 (nine months ago) link

I think WAR is the set I’ve enjoyed drafting the most, although I only started (after an 18ish year break) with Kaladesh.

AlanSmithee, Thursday, 23 May 2019 15:49 (nine months ago) link

you just missed my favorite by 1 set then

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 May 2019 16:40 (nine months ago) link

flamed out of gp providence after a 4-0 start, but at least we got to scalp the rietzl/williams/sperling dream team along the way by playing to a low chance out. I'm like 60% sure rietzl whispered to sperling that he saw my hand was a forest, which is legal but put a bad taste in my mouth. they had a pretty nutty pool too, time wipe, widespread brutality, red god, bolas, bolas's citadel, massacre girl.

iatee, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 01:22 (eight months ago) link

nice! i've never gotten a good read on any of those three

ciderpress, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 01:47 (eight months ago) link

they pretty much lived up to expectation, sperling was pretty dour, williams was nice though

iatee, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 03:04 (eight months ago) link

Think I've played Rietzl three times, very friendly before the match each time, serious when it started. First time I played Williams he was extremely unfriendly; found out later his Vintage deck had just been stolen. My team also played Sperling/Rietzl/Williams at a prior GP Providence and everyone was in good spirits, even us after we lost to them. Team GPs are the absolute best

Vinnie, Thursday, 30 May 2019 02:15 (eight months ago) link

three months pass...

decided to check out spoilers for the latest set. I knew there would come a time when new Magic cards are basically unrecognizable to me but I didn't think it would be so soon.

frogbs, Friday, 13 September 2019 20:18 (five months ago) link

I've started playing magic. i suck

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Friday, 13 September 2019 20:19 (five months ago) link

Have been feeling seriously burned out on Standard for a while. Thinking of shifting my focus to limited and seeing if that's more fun. New set looks pretty cool. Yes, the Adventures are pretty exotic, but I personally love the design.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 13 September 2019 20:22 (five months ago) link

havent really been following previews that closely but got a good laugh out of them accidentally previewing "trapped in the tower" on 9/11

i like this set's mechanics, haven't drafted regularly since amonkhet but i'm ready to give it a spin again

ciderpress, Friday, 13 September 2019 21:02 (five months ago) link

yeah that was the thing that made me realize there's a new set being previewed. that's like "cardId=1488" levels of 'c'mon, who did this'

frogbs, Friday, 13 September 2019 21:04 (five months ago) link

i dont really see whats unrecognizable here though. theres a split card mechanic with a weird frame, theres food which works the same as clues but for life, and theres a monocolor subtheme

ciderpress, Friday, 13 September 2019 21:11 (five months ago) link

two months pass...

doing my periodic check in and it appears that they've just banned the color green from standard

ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:09 (three months ago) link

I can see how oko got past them (it’s considerably more powerful than it reads) but I have no idea what got them to print once upon a time. There’s no way that card wasn’t going to lead to ridiculously consistent starts for green decks.

iatee, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:24 (three months ago) link

Oko is egregiously bad. I'm not convinced it should be legal in any format.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:40 (three months ago) link

yeah there's no reason oko should have gotten past them with those loyalty numbers. not even most 4 mana pws are allowed to go to 6 the turn you play them and they certainly aren't allowed to have their removal ability be a plus

ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:46 (three months ago) link

Veil of Summer is the one that confuses me, is that actually too powerful or is this just an attempt to swing the balance back

frogbs, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:49 (three months ago) link

the latter, it's the most effective of its cycle in the color that needed it least

ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 15:51 (three months ago) link

the thing that gets me is them pontificating in their article over how green ought to deal with creatures if they can't just give it OP flametongue kavus, when the historical actual answer to that (go over the top) is the strategy they rushed to ban at the start of the format

ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 16:05 (three months ago) link

I surprisingly enjoyed watching the most recent MC, even though it was the least diverse MC I've ever seen (er I think). Playing Standard on Arena has been decidedly less fun

Veil was definitely too good in the pre-ban Standard. when you can answer the most popular over-the-top cards in the format - Mass Manipulation and Casualties of War - for one mana and draw a card, that's pretty insane. it's possible Veil is fairer in a meta not defined by Oko, but I'm ok with them banning it now

Vinnie, Wednesday, 20 November 2019 01:47 (three months ago) link

four weeks pass...

got MTGO going again for Holiday Cube. so far I've gone 0-3 with an insane G/U deck where I got nearly every card I wanted and 3-0 with a pretty bad B/W deck that played several subpar cards because my computer crashed halfway through the draft. Cube is back baby!!!

frogbs, Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:21 (two months ago) link

the fun police white creature decks are always the most underdrafted in cube relative to their power level, you can usually just force them and win

ciderpress, Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:54 (two months ago) link

yea one of those wins was because I had Containment Priest and it literally shut down my opponent's entire deck

frogbs, Thursday, 19 December 2019 22:32 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

man I just drafted the most insane Goblin Welder deck, I had the Scrap Servant, Tinker, a bunch of draw/discard stuff, 3 bomb artifact creatures, Mindslaver, not to mention Ancestral Recall & Mox Jet

went 0-3 obv

frogbs, Monday, 6 January 2020 16:24 (one month ago) link

i hope you learned your lesson about goblin welder

ciderpress, Monday, 6 January 2020 16:55 (one month ago) link

the one game I won was a lot of fun though

frogbs, Monday, 6 January 2020 18:24 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

I like this new Chaos Draft thing they're doing. its sort of the anti-Cube, there's no synergy and the decks are super weak but it's kind of fun anyway. there's something immensely satisfying about winning a match because you managed to rip a Marker Beetles off the top

frogbs, Friday, 14 February 2020 16:05 (one week ago) link

every time I do one of those I regret it before the draft is even over

iatee, Friday, 14 February 2020 16:17 (one week ago) link

I've played a lot of higher powered chaos drafts with friends and I think it's actually a surprisingly great format once you start including masters packs because the decks aren't complete garbage and you get to look for weird new synergies across sets

iatee, Friday, 14 February 2020 16:20 (one week ago) link

back in the day "booster draft" just meant mix and matching 3 packs of whatever you wanted, since the sets weren't really designed for that back then. so I guess it gives me nostalgia for that time. I feel like a lot of modern draft formats hold your hand a little too hard, I miss having to figure out how to get the most out of your cards on your own. I agree the draft itself can be frustrating but the games are actually pretty fun

frogbs, Friday, 14 February 2020 19:35 (one week ago) link

idk I feel like there are usually 2 cards in your deck that do anything. it does remind me of magic 20 years ago though. the gameplay reminds me of the game 20 years ago as much as the draft - a lot of draw go because both decks are so bad, you have a 1/3 and they have a 1/3.

iatee, Friday, 14 February 2020 19:37 (one week ago) link

it definitely challenges you to figure out how to generate card advantage and yeah it brings back some bad memories of "well I just drew 3 lands in a row, guess I lose". but I do love how each matchup is its own thing, you genuinely have no clue what your opponent is about to do

frogbs, Friday, 14 February 2020 19:43 (one week ago) link


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