Magic: The Gathering C/D

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Anyone still play it, or any other collectable card game? Even if it were not designed to extract huge amounts of money from players, it is an extreme dud. And it has the most absurdly complex rules for anything I have ever seen.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Me and a few mates used to play a supremley bastardized version of Portal (you know, Magic for beginners?), simply using the cards we had and discarding all kinds of rules. It was enormous fun.

We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players who came and wanted to play w/ us and they were very anal about all the rules and also they actually had decks with, y'know, a strategy. Plus protection for all the cards and they wouldn't stop talking about rare cards and such- I'm a geek, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere. So now it's dud.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

More dud than genital warts. At least genital warts implies sex.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

That sentence was supposed to go "At least genital warts implies sex has been had at some point in your life." Ooops.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

>We tried to revive it this year but the school we go to now has serious players

Yeah, Magic is a game that completely falls apart when people start to take it seriously. It quickly becomes that only certain cards in certain types of decks have a chance of winning, and often in very boring, cheepo, lucky-draw fashion.

Casual play is ok, but is still too expensive.

fletrejet, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Lots of fun if played with somewhat random decks but totally sux if anyone's taking it seriously. The whole suspended reality thing hits me pretty hard so I really get into the cards.

toraneko (toraneko), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm still into the casual play aspect and mostly out of competitive play. Expensiveness of it all = clearly dud though.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link

There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (nineteen years ago) link

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (nineteen years ago) link

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (nineteen years ago) link

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (eighteen years ago) link

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (seventeen years ago) link

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (fourteen years ago) link

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (fourteen years ago) link

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (fourteen years ago) link

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (fourteen years ago) link

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (fourteen years ago) link

ok these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (fourteen years ago) link

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (fourteen years ago) link

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (fourteen years ago) link

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Feeling quite pleased with myself -- In my last draft, I first-picked Dying to Serve (black enchantment, whenever you discard a card create a tapped 2/2 zombie token, limit 1x per turn), which I've been wanting to play with to see if it can be good in a deck full of ways to make blood tokens. I didn't want to force it, but when I got passed a second Bloodtithe Harvester in pack 2, I realized Black/Red Vampires was open and buckled in.

Somewhere along the way, I also managed to snag the busted mythic uncommon Dormant Grove (green enchantment, put a +1/+1 counter on a creature every combat, transforms into a creature and gives your whole team vigilance if the thing you put the counter on has toughness 6 or greater), plus enough mana-fixing to splash for it. I ended up with an absolute beast of a deck that went 7-1 (one loss could have been a win had I not badly misplayed, saccing my Bloodtithe Harvester to try and kill something with 3 toughness... when I only had one blood token on the board)

Full list:
1x Blood Fountain B

2x Doomed Dissenter 1B
1x Mindleech Ghoul 1B
1x Ragged Recluse 1B
2x Bloodtithe Harvester BR
1x Wedding Invitation 2

1x Dying to Serve 2B
1x Blood Hypnotist 2R
1x Bloody Betrayal 2R
1x Honeymoon Hearse 2R
1x Vampires' Vengeance 2R
2x Blood Servitor 3
1x Foreboding Statue 3

1x Bloodcrazed Socialite 3B
2x Bleed Dry 2BB
1x Dormant Grove 3G

2x Falkenrath Celebrants 4R

1x Grisly Ritual 5B

6x Swamp
6x Mountain
2x Forest
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Voldaren Estate

Jimmy Iovine Eat World (bernard snowy), Sunday, 21 November 2021 21:01 (two months ago) link

okay hmm I guess that's not how hidden text tag works

Jimmy Iovine Eat World (bernard snowy), Sunday, 21 November 2021 21:01 (two months ago) link

Yeah, nice when the synergy comes together

I'm about eight drafts in and not feeling this set much but hard to put my finger on why. Maybe the gameplay is not novel enough? I'm not totally sick of it yet but I suspect I'll be calling it early on this format. Tho there is going to be a draft Arena Open next month, which is enticing me to practice

Vinnie, Sunday, 21 November 2021 23:21 (two months ago) link

yeah I think a lot of people feel the same way. I've heard a lot of grouching about this set. feel like it might play better once you get used to it. one thing I will say is the -13/-13 instant exiling the creature seems super relevant - there are just so many death triggers/ways to bring things back. it deals with a bunch of those rares that otherwise would just win you the game.

my current pool has 3 Ancient Lumberknot and 3 Sheltering Boughs. so that's pretty fun, at least

frogbs, Monday, 22 November 2021 22:01 (two months ago) link

i dont think its a total dud of a set but i dont really feel like playing it since there's not enough good new stuff. the vampire/blood deck is new but pretty much every other color pair is stuck doing a less fun/impactful version of what they were doing in the last set. except for exploit which is a retread of a mechanic i didn't like much the first time around

ciderpress, Monday, 22 November 2021 22:12 (two months ago) link

well the Lumberknot deck is something new at least

had a fun game recently, I managed to stabilize and get into a winning position, then my opponent plays Avabruck Caretaker and I go from "I think it's okay as long as this isn't some totally busted rare" to "wow, that's pretty bad for me" to "holy shit it comes into play flipped and does WHAT!??"

frogbs, Monday, 22 November 2021 22:38 (two months ago) link

Yeah that's pretty much my exact feeling, cider

Caretaker is such a stupid ass card

Vinnie, Monday, 22 November 2021 23:15 (two months ago) link

luckily its a mythic and my one time running into it they played it into my counterspell

ciderpress, Monday, 22 November 2021 23:31 (two months ago) link

Note to WoTC make it uncounterable next time

frogbs, Monday, 22 November 2021 23:46 (two months ago) link

Btw am I the only one who needs to read the Cleave cards four times to understand what they do? I find the design weirdly unintuitive when at the end of the day it’s the same split/modal design they do every year

frogbs, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 00:37 (two months ago) link

It totally is unintuitive. It's a popular mechanic among amateur designers because it's clever but I think it reads worse than their usual way of wording it, and I'm disappointed that they made it into real cards. I just end up memorizing what the cards do. Liked this parody of the mechanic:

Vinnie, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 00:45 (two months ago) link

Cleave just seems silly,they should have just made them kicker cards

《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 01:37 (two months ago) link

This set has a lot of bombs. Too many maybe?

I tried a BU exploit deck and thought it was pretty good but it didn't work out for me

《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 01:39 (two months ago) link

lol Vinnie that gives me such a headache but bravo

frogbs, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 03:55 (two months ago) link

I am having a lot of fun with this set so far! For anyone who's burned out on drafting, I would recommend giving Sealed a try. Opening 6 rares makes it much more likely that you'll have a bomb rare to play with, but so will your opponents. There's a lot of strategy that goes into building your deck, and you can end up with some very funky builds that use cards you wouldn't normally play (or wouldn't normally play *together*) in a draft deck.

As an example: I am 4-1 with my current white/black sealed deck. I opened Halana and Alena, which is a legit game-breaking bomb rare; but all of my good removal was in white and most of my other good creatures were in black, so I ultimately decided not to play the best card in my pool. Instead, I went all-in on vampires and lifegain synergies, which then dictated the shape of my creature curve: I'm less worried about having two-drops to trade with theirs and prevent early damage, since I can easily gain 4+ life every turn once I get my Restless Bloodseeker + Gluttonous Guest + Heron of Hope engine online. And I ended up playing a Nebelgast Beguiler, which is generally too expensive to be good in draft, but fills multiple roles in my deck as a big ground blocker as well as a piece of pseudo-removal in case my opponent manages to draw out all my hard removal spells before playing their bomb.

Jimmy Iovine Eat World (bernard snowy), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 17:09 (two months ago) link

I don't have a problem with the Cleave cards, but lol @ that parody.

Avabruck Caretaker is ridiculous, it was very satisfying when someone played it against me in standard the other day, but far too late in the game for it to matter (also it still dies to 1/1s with deathtouch).

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 17:19 (two months ago) link

encountered another incredibly stupid card: Toxrill. if you don't counter it and can't remove it right away, what the hell are you supposed to do?

frogbs, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 23:04 (two months ago) link

Dreadfeast Demon is another stupid one, where you pretty much have to counter it or have Bleed Dry up to survive

Vinnie, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 23:41 (two months ago) link

I hadn't played with Toxrill until today, and had to laugh at two stupid things I'd hadn't caught until playing with it. 1) that it triggers EVERY end step, not just on the controller's turn and 2) that the slugs can be sacked for cards. both are egregiously unnecessary additions to a card that's already a bomb. in the couple games I faced Toxrill before, I was too demoralized to even notice those details

Vinnie, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 10:18 (one month ago) link

its so fucking dumb. I guess its at least kinda nice that it doesn't put on actual -1/-1 counters, so if you manage to kill it on your turn you might wind up okay. that said you probably won't be holding hard removal by the time it lands. and if you can't kill it, its kind of hard to envision a realistic board scenario where you can still win after they play it. at least the Demon is just one creature that they can only trade 1-for-1 with, so if you've got a big board advantage you can still maybe get through.

first game I encountered Toxrill I had a huge advantage so I was like, "dont care about this" and then watched as my entire board got decimated after a single turn. second time I had 5 creatures out and they had none, I was up 28-2 in life, and still scooped immediately after my next draw was not my single Bleed Dry.

frogbs, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 15:34 (one month ago) link

Yeah that was one of my games today. Behind on board, behind on cards, think I was at like 4 life? First end step got me two slugs and after they didn't draw a removal spell, they had no shot and scooped. It's like the stupidly busted cards I designed when I first started playing the game in 8th grade

Vinnie, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 15:49 (one month ago) link

I feel like there are about 8 ludicrous bombs in this set but can only think of toxrill and dreadfeast off the top of my head. both have done for me.

I have only drafted this 4 times thus far because I have done so badly in all my drafts that I don't win hardly any gems

《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 1 December 2021 18:00 (one month ago) link

look at the flip side of Avabruck Caretaker it's arguably worse than either of those - "all your permanents have hexproof" get the fuck outta here

frogbs, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 18:13 (one month ago) link

Caretaker might be the worst because of how hard it is to answer. Even the Day side is extremely good. My list of kill-them-immediately-or-lose bombs:

Avabruck Caretaker
Hullbreaker Horror
Dreadfeast Demon

But the tier below that is the problem imo, where you get repeated card advantage or will end the game in 2-3 turns:

Cemetary Desecrator
Manaform Hellkite
Volatile Arsonist
Savior of Ollenbock
Welcoming Vampire
Glorious Sunrise
Bloodvial Purveyor
Wedding Announcement
Howlpack Piper
Halana and Elena

It feels like there's a very wide gulf between these cards and the other rares/uncommons/commons imo. I'm not sure how it compares to other sets but it has felt like a higher percentage of my games have been decided by who draws their bomb

Vinnie, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 23:35 (one month ago) link

God, I keep having Toxrill stories: today, I was up on board, opponent dead on board but both of us low on life. then my opponent played Toxrill. I lost three creatures, they went up three slugs, and I said to myself, if I don't draw my Bleed Dry exactly, I'm going to concede. I did draw my Bleed Dry so I killed it, but at this point, it was almost even on board. they alpha'd and had the pump spell to make me dead to the stupid slugs!

Vinnie, Thursday, 2 December 2021 11:30 (one month ago) link

thats fun, draw your one out and still lose cuz the card is that good

frogbs, Thursday, 2 December 2021 14:00 (one month ago) link

anyway one thing about that list is that Olivia isn't necessarily a game winner on its own, you need stuff in your graveyard which may not be there for a number of reasons.

Wedding Announcement can be a pretty nutso card - feel like I never lose when I play it

frogbs, Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:34 (one month ago) link

That's a good point about Olivia and maybe it belongs in the second list, but I think it's very common to have at least one creature in the graveyard by the time you get Olivia down. Last week, my opponent played Olivia, pulled a Diregraf Scavenger out, drained me, and I traded with the Scavenger. Then I realized that the creatures Olivia brings back only get exiled when Olivia dies, not if you kill them. So next turn they did it again haha

Yeah I've never beaten Wedding Invitation and I've won every game I've played it

Vinnie, Thursday, 2 December 2021 23:30 (one month ago) link

funny enough I just had a match where I had Hullbreaker in hand and was certain I was gonna win, until I got trucked by...his own Hullbreaker. then Game 3 I was looking good until Olivia came in and whipped my ass. But there was good news - apparently Olivia has a bug on double-sided cards in MTGO, once I untapped and killed Olivia the creature still remained. typically in MTGO when you lose to a bug like that (can't say for sure I would've won otherwise, but it was probably 50/50) you get your whole entry fee returned, so actually this megabomb benefitted me greatly

frogbs, Friday, 3 December 2021 17:13 (one month ago) link

on a later match I managed to pitch Hullbreaker, play Runo to put it back on top of my library, flipped it into Krothuss, then later played the Hullbreaker, copied it TWICE with Krothuss (didn't know it did that), then played a Bleed Dry and bounced three creatures. my opponent in the chat was like "wait, what is happening here"

frogbs, Friday, 3 December 2021 17:23 (one month ago) link

ooh another card you can add there - Dollhouse of Horrors. Turns out repeatable reanimation for a single mana is pretty good!! Is there a constructed deck built around this card yet? If I still played Standard I'd be all over this thing

one thing I do appreciate about this set is how many abilities on permanents are sorcery speed only, having a bunch of weird combat tricks on board is never fun

frogbs, Monday, 6 December 2021 20:47 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

can't believe there's 6 1/2 weeks left of this format. Draft may be interesting but Sealed seems to have devolved into endless B/R vs B/R matches. obviously the other archetypes are viable but a lot of times it seems a mediocre B/R deck is on par with a great G/W humans/counters one. not only does B/R have nearly all the good removal, it also has a lot of access to Blood tokens to smooth things out. in addition a huge chunk of the really troublesome rares and mythics are in those colors.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make the Training deck work. you have to go like...2 drop, then 3 drop, then attack with both on turn 4, but by then a 2/3 probably isnt getting through. I like the flavor of it but it just like...doesn't play well

frogbs, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 16:37 (one month ago) link

yeah draft actually has good color balance this set compared to the last few. RB is the most popular because it's the most obvious and has the most first-pick commons but none of the 10 pairs is performing significantly better or worse than anything else

ciderpress, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 16:49 (one month ago) link

the 1/2 training guy isnt particularly playable, for the reasons you're describing. try using the flier or the 1/4

ciderpress, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 16:53 (one month ago) link

yeah it's too bad because that 1/2 guy seems like the glue that would hold a deck like that together. the 1/4 is easier to build up and the reach is very helpful. not super convinced by the flyer...unless you got the 3/1 1W spirit you can't really train on turn 4. I kinda feel like the point of that deck is to use cards like Travelling Minister to beef up your creatures to get the trigger. It doesn't work super well though. You always feel one turn behind. Even the 2GW 4/4 dude is not quite as good as it looks.

frogbs, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 19:02 (one month ago) link

like Radiant Grace is maybe supposed to be the sort of card you play here

frogbs, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 19:15 (one month ago) link

I've had times where the 1/2 has helped me run away with the game, but it usually involves removal on turn 4. Turn 2 Training guy, turn 3 3/3, turn 4 removal, can be enough on its own. I like the card more in RW than GW for that reason. Often it trades with a 3/2 leaving behind a counter, which is a solid exchange. And sometimes it's dead. So yeah not a high pick but it often makes my aggro decks. A 2-mana 2/3 is much better than most two-drops

That said, I haven't played this format in a couple weeks now. I probably played 20 drafts total and I've had my fill until Kamigawa. Despite the balanced colors, this has been my least favorite draft set in some time

Vinnie, Wednesday, 22 December 2021 00:05 (one month ago) link

wait a sec is the next one gonna be the vaporwave set

frogbs, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 03:51 (three weeks ago) link

Pretty much

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 29 December 2021 03:51 (three weeks ago) link

Lol read that as vaporware and thought they never actually finishedthe set or something

Vinnie, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 12:27 (three weeks ago) link

The basic lands for this set look amazing. I love when they put out things that don't even really look like Magic cards. Can see those fetching a decent price in 10 years. Otherwise based on the ten or so spoiled cards it looks like a predictable set of returning mechanics - Ninjutsu and Channel are in, Sagas are back again, and there appears to be a 5-color theme. Also one of the spoiled cards has Bushido without actually having Bushido, lol. Guessing they're gonna ditch the Splice/Arcane stuff though I still think there's something interesting there.

frogbs, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 16:36 (two weeks ago) link

nah arcane makes even less sense to do when its in 1 of 8 standard sets instead of 3 of 7. i wouldn't expect it to be a major part of the set if its even in there at all

ciderpress, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 17:22 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah I am pretty sure it won’t show up at all but the idea of chaining/combining spells is something they’ll probably revisit at some point

One interesting thing I noticed is that any creature that is enchanted, equipped, or has a counter on it is now called “modified”

frogbs, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 17:43 (two weeks ago) link

they did splice onto instant in one of those modern horizons sets

ciderpress, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 17:47 (two weeks ago) link

I haven’t so much as glanced at the spoilers yet, but I did win two entries into the Arena Decathlon finals so there’s a chance I’ll win the full (Arena) set this weekend :D

davey, Thursday, 6 January 2022 01:53 (two weeks ago) link

the lands look awesome indeed

Vinnie, Thursday, 6 January 2022 09:02 (two weeks ago) link

basics, I mean

Vinnie, Thursday, 6 January 2022 09:02 (two weeks ago) link

there's a Supreme Vintage draft on MTGO right now, where you get 18 packs and two picks from each one. its absolutely insane, everyone plays crazy blue artifact decks and twice I've had someone play a Time Walk AND a Mind Twist before I even got to play my first turn. immensely dumb format but it's fun to play high powered Magic sometimes.

frogbs, Friday, 14 January 2022 15:13 (one week ago) link

That is my kind of format.

Bullet Boys 2022 Complete "Freakshow" album live! (PBKR), Friday, 14 January 2022 17:10 (one week ago) link

it's definitely worth trying a couple times. I always found it interesting how every step from Regular Set -> Modern Masters -> Cube -> Vintage Cube you have to re-evaluate what types of cards are good and this is yet another level beyond even that. Like I think in this format the planeswalker that prevents your opponent from drawing more than one each turn may actually be better than Jace. From my very limited experience I think you really do want discard and hard counterspells. And Time Walk/Time Warp obviously. Half the games seem to come down to someone just saying fuck it and playing a Time Spiral. It rules.

(fwiw I haven't noticed any Storm cards in the pool because I suspect those would be insanely broken. I didn't see Force of Will either but who knows, that might be the top pick)

frogbs, Friday, 14 January 2022 18:36 (one week ago) link

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