What impact will their positions on war have on the careers of...?

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- Charles Kennedy?

- Tony Blair?

- Jacques Chirac?

- Ms Dynamite?

Predictions please! (any or all)

Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link

i think blair is the interesting one. hes pinned a lot on this war, although he is benefitting from weakness of tories, which is giving him more leeway (though i dont think he would be playing it much different even with strong tories)

blair is a strange mix of conviction and politicing. i think, at this stage, hes looking past day to day politics, this is his chance to be a "great man", a "great leader", someone who did something big (ironically rather like saddam)

gareth (gareth), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:08 (eighteen years ago) link

blair looks totally physically exhausted

mark s (mark s), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Ms Dynamite is a very interesting one. I cannot remember a pop star to get so involved political so soon after arriving on the scene. WHat this means for her is difficultto say, but with a baby on the way and her stated desire to be a politician.....

She needs to make sure the next album is not overtly politcial. If she gets past that, she'll be the next female prime minister (or Patti LaBelle). She's in with Tessa Jowell after all!

Pete (Pete), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Even a strong Tory party would probably swing behind war on Iraq though, so I'm not convinced its that much of an issue. However, I think any talk that his hardline stance on Iraq will ultimately topple him is premature. I reckon he'll ride it out... if the war is over fairly shortly and with minimal damage under the circumstances and Blair makes a very public attempt to promote nation-building in post-Saddam Iraq, as I suspect he will, he might redeem himself in some eyes. The thing is that the general public stopped actually liking Tony Blair ages ago, and the consensus seems to be "well, look at the alternatives". In some ways, the fact that he isn't especially popular but still, apparently, unassailable has strengthened him.

As far as I see it, Charles Kennedy can't fail to benefit - whether that will translate into LibDem votes is a different thing entirely. This whole Iraq thing will probably not be foremost in voters' minds come the next General Election after all.

I'm sure Ms Dynamite will sell lots more records as a result. As will Blur and Massive Attack, probably.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Charles Kennedy is the one that interests me - as a twice-lapsed Lib Dem member. I think there's a very brave and risky path he can go down, which is as an anti-statesman who is honest enough to admit that Britain isn't 'Great' in the 'Great Power' sense and that it shouldn't try to act as if it is. Britain (conventional wisdom sez) continually looks to politicians who help it punch above its weight whereas perhaps what it needs is politicians who can let it down gently. How to turn a message of "We are a bit rubbish, let's face it" into a vote-winner is a tough problem but Saturday provides some clues.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

(i ph34r that on saturday the mark s/dr vick mob made far more effort not to be near lib dem banners than we did to not be accidentally brushed by the cunt coven's banner painted in dried mensutral blood = uphill struggle?)

(also he's younger than me the bastard)

mark s (mark s), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link

We were stuck under the Plaid Cymru banner for a good hour!

Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Is it because I are Welsh?

Pete (Pete), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:29 (eighteen years ago) link

What about the effects on the parliamentary elections in May? What Blair may be able to shrug off might damage McConnell and his boys; will the Nats try for the moral highground and leave themselves wide open to the charge of supporting dictators? Also lot riskier for the Lib Debs in a parliament where they actually wield some clout, as part of the coalition than where they can sit and snipe for the outside.

alext (alext), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Notice how you've not heard Gordon Brown saying a fucking thing? Theres a reason for that.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:34 (eighteen years ago) link

brown = putin's mole

mark s (mark s), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Tom E - your question is good, but the business about Great Power is not that relevant to what Kennedy or anyone says about the particular issue of the proposed war.

I think we shouldn't go to war, whether we are a great power or not. Whether Kennedy agrees with me, I can't say.

the pinefox, Monday, 17 February 2003 13:40 (eighteen years ago) link

PF - I see as implicit in Kennedy's stance that slavish adherence to US foreign policy is a bad idea. Blair OTOH thinks that strategically it is a neccessary idea to maintain British influence. Kennedy's unspoken position is - stuff British influence, let's elide quietly into Europe.

I agree that he never articulates this so maybe I'm dreaming it.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Notice how you've not heard Gordon Brown saying a fucking thing? Theres a reason for that.

Blair - I want war!
Brown - Oooh, dunno, it's a bit pricey.
Blair - Tough. Cough up, Gordon.
Brown - *grumble* *moan* *hands over vast wads of cash

I doubt that Brown opposes the war in Iraq. And even if he did? Does he have to write a blank cheque to the MoD in this circumstance whether he likes it or not?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

What impact will their positions on war have on the careers of ordinary people in america and britain?

gareth (gareth), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link


But we knew that.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I tend to agree that we should slide into Europe. The current US crisis has seemed to simplify this issue (which seemed very complicated not long ago).

I still don't think that this (important) issue has much to do with whether we should attack Iraq.

the pinefox, Monday, 17 February 2003 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I have my escape route to Finland ("for the duration") already planned. Second choice: wildest Wales (hmmm ... was Tom's Plaid Cymru banner an omen?)

robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:30 (eighteen years ago) link

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