Sarah Vowell, anyone?

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Has anyone read any Sarah Vowell? She's somewhat David Sedaris-esque but her topics rely more on pop culture and politics in addition to her life story.

― Pam, Friday, 17 January 2003 06:55 (twenty-three years ago)

She has a very annoying voice.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 17 January 2003 06:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Hm...I didn't think of that. Perhaps, she's better read than heard?

― Pam, Friday, 17 January 2003 07:01 (twenty-three years ago)

no, she is not

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 17 January 2003 07:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Sarah Vowell, everyone!!!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 17 January 2003 19:52 (twenty-three years ago)

i'd hit it

― chaki (chaki), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't stand her. Her champion-of-the-weird adorable-savant thing really grates on me.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:43 (twenty-three years ago)

at least she's less offensive than Janeane Garafolo in that regard, JBR.

― Aaron A., Friday, 17 January 2003 21:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Janeane's a good actress though -- when she's not cameoing in crap underground-comedy films.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 17 January 2003 21:22 (twenty-three years ago)

And Janeane may be champion-of-the-weird, but at least she's not "adorable" in that "hee-hee-hee I act so girly and naive but I'm actually remarkably brilliant* DO YOU SEE" way that Sarah Vowell is. Precociousness is one of my least favorite character traits.

*she's not

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 17 January 2003 21:26 (twenty-three years ago)

true. but it bugs me how JG always has to lay out her hamfisted Indie agenda whenever she makes a public appearance. it was funny when she was on Carson Daily and gave an approving thumbs-up to the "Pixies Rule!" message on the Avril Lavgine kick drum in the background. So wrong (and yet so right!).

― Aaron A., Friday, 17 January 2003 21:34 (twenty-three years ago)

She takes herself very seriously.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 17 January 2003 21:36 (twenty-three years ago)

blah. I refuse to read "Take The Canoli" on principle alone (of all the lines to take from the Godfather...), and I'm thoroughly unamused by the radio book or any of her Salon essays. Did she win the lottery or something?

Janeane's pop culture commentary is definitely getting one-note and tired these days, but yeah, at least she knows the form and structure of a joke. I'd rather read a 15-year-old's blog than Vowell. I'd learn more.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 January 2003 22:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Her voice kind of reminds me of Lisa Simpson, and not in a good way.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 17 January 2003 22:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Sheez. You people are brutal. Janeane Garafalo and Sarah Vowell are two of my favorite people. I've seen both of them in person and they blew me away. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Dave Eggers and David Sedaris (my other favorite people). Or maybe I can.

Though honestly, Sarah's voice did kind of freak me out when I first heard her and Janeane was a little preachy. But still.

― Pam, Saturday, 18 January 2003 07:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, The Partly Cloudy Patriot is a bit better than Take the Cannoli. It sheds some interesting (but partisan) light on the 2000 Presidential Election and what it means to be a young American in general. Really.

I think the section "The Nerd Voice" alone is a great read - at least for a nerdy recent high school grad and her friends.

― Pam, Saturday, 18 January 2003 07:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd hit it as well.

― James Blount, Saturday, 18 January 2003 08:01 (twenty-three years ago)

four months pass...

That voice. Dear God.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 May 2003 06:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I kinda like her writing sometimes, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to read her again without having that voice in my head.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 May 2003 06:01 (twenty-three years ago)

She represents a certain sensibility that I do my best to shun.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I have a coworker (who works in another buildling, fortunately) whose voice is somewhere between that of Ms. Vowell and Betty Boop. Small animals (and interns) cower in anguish whenever she shows up; I usually take a smoke break (hard to manage now that I'm not smoking).

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I have a great affinity for Sarah Vowell. When I was in college and thought all I wanted to do was to get a Ph.D. and be an academic, I discovered Vowell's Salon column. And then heard her on This American Life. And then vaguely remembered reading her reviews in SPIN several years prior.

And I loved that she wrote in this way that was engaged with music and pop culture but also very funny and personal. Which was exactly the kind of writing I really wanted to do. (My senior thesis was partly about ordinariness and naturalism in contemporary culture, but mostly about how I came to like the things I like: a cultural autobiography.)

So then I read Take the Cannoli (my dad got me an autographed copy for graduation) and began telling people that if I didn't end up as a professor, I wanted to be Sarah Vowell. At that point, I thought that journalism was way too restrictive for me (thinking it meant writing in a mundane style and being beholden to "objectivity") -- so I was in awe that Vowell was able to basically do what she wanted with all of her employers. (And not specialize, either: she had a brief column about education for Time!)

I actually wasn't in love with Partly Cloudy Patriot -- it seemed a bit too quippy in parts, and I didn't like that I could read the whole thing in two hours. Radio On also meanders too much, without much to say. But ultimately, I respect what she's doing. And she's still an inspiration.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:56 (twenty-three years ago)

(By the way, y'all gotta stop hatin' on the voice. So it's not so pretty -- get over it.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:56 (twenty-three years ago)

The voice is pretty bad, but the content is even worse! About as illuminating, deep or insightful as a muddy puddle.

― hstencil, Monday, 19 May 2003 15:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Well it seems Ok to cricize her voice since she is a RADIO PERSONALITY. If the Elephant Man were hired as a political commentator I think it'd be likely and perhaps appropriate if we noted that he wasn't perhaps the most comforting sight on prime time.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:18 (twenty-three years ago)

From a panel of Chicago rock writers published in Chicago Magazine:

Sam Weller: How important to would-be rock writers is strong knowledge of history?

Peter Margasak: I sort of think it’s important or else you’re gonna look like Sarah Vowell.

Jim DeRogatis: She sucks. She really does.

----
Note: I wrote DeRogatis and asked him to elaborate on this totally unfounded attack. (I guess I was surprised because I didn't realize she was so hated.) But he never wrote back.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, well, I've never minded the voice, and in fact appreciate that it's NOT a conventional public radio voice.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Re. the Rogatis quote: Mr. Pot, I'd like you to meet my friend Mrs. Kettle.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Tell me someone else who writes personal essays about popular culture who's better than Sarah Vowell. (That's not a statement of superiority; that's an honest question. Ultimately, I would like to read someone with less quips and more insight.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:25 (twenty-three years ago)

less = fewer

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely the answer is ILXOR as a whole, Jaymc! But we have quips too.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, yes, Ned. That's why I love this place!

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

The answer is: just about anyone.

― hstencil, Monday, 19 May 2003 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I wouldn't agree with that, HStencil. She can be moderately amusing and I wouldn't deny her talent. She just uses it toward a kind of flaky cultural commentary that's in overabundance these days, not least in her preferred outlets of Salon.com and This American Life. I don't see how she stands out in the company of the many many cultural critics that also contribute to such things. Oh right, the voice.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:32 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a sort of psuedoseriousness that dominates these things--a little switch in the background music and suddently we're talking about Big Issues. Then just as suddenly there's a switch to some little clever quip and the piece is over. They seem afraid of actual sustained seriousness, really engaging with an issue or a work of art in a wholehearted way.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Haha I'm committing the very sin I'm accusing her of!

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:38 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah but you don't get paid to post here, amateurist (plus we can't hear you).

― hstencil, Monday, 19 May 2003 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I love Sarah. Or at least, I picked up a press copy of Take the Cannoli that was lying around at work and loved it. It's just funny, inoffensive stuff, nu? Perhaps as a Brit there's a side to her personality I just don't get (beyond the voice), that tickles you lot the wrong way -- what is that, then?

Besides, without meaning to get into a lesser-of-two-evils type argument, she's streets ahead of anyone doing similar in the broadsheets over here.

Agree with the less-quips thing. And Partly Cloudy is totally repetitious. But Derogatis was way out of line. Shmuck!

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:46 (twenty-three years ago)

So: what are our alternatives?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:48 (twenty-three years ago)

(Also, one key reason why Sarah Vowell stands out for me is the breadth of her interests. She seems interested in "culture" very generally, not just music/film/etc.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I suspect she wouldn't be as praised or criticized if she wasn't so (relatively) high profile.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 19 May 2003 15:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll take Vowell over DeRogatis anytime

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:13 (twenty-three years ago)

DeRogatis seems to exist to provide a corporeal host for all the worst cliches of contemporary rock criticism, with nary a redeeming feature. I sort of react to him the way I would react to a really smelly person on the bus: revulsion mixed with pity mixed with "please let me get as far away from that as possible..."

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm no big fan of Sarah Vowell, but being dissed by Rogatis is the highest praise imaginable.

― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:25 (twenty-three years ago)

It's like comparing a pretentious annoying would-be-zeitgeist maven to a dumbshit asshole (who wouldn't explain himself when I e-mailed him about something he wrote either).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 May 2003 22:09 (twenty-three years ago)

She seems interested in "culture"

A humorist who's interested in culture? Fuckin' a, how 'bout that!?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 May 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

She's no Dave Barry or Andy Rooney, I'll give her that much.

― hstencil, Monday, 19 May 2003 22:32 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, what amateurist said re: DeRogatis. Sarah Vowell is about fifty thousand times more illuminating than that smug creep, funny voice and all.

I've only read Partly Cloudy Patriot and her Salon essays: the latter I mostly liked, but in general I just wish she'd either be more serious or stop trying to be serious at all. She always comes off like the brightest, peppiest pupil in the class - the one everyone else in the class wanted to strangle.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:10 (twenty-three years ago)

May I ask again which culturalists you naysayers prefer? Preferably ones under 50.

― b.R.A.d. (Brad), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:42 (twenty-three years ago)

what's a culturalist?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

What's a brain?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:52 (twenty-three years ago)

are you mocking me or the idea that specific people are quote-unquote culturalists?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, that was mean. But do you really need a definition for "culturalist" or are you just thumbing your nose at a word you've never heard of?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Or both?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I tend to not go with any one specific set of authors as much as pick and choose from a wide range of publications & other media. The idea of taking one person's work as THE WORD, esp. when dealing with an unwieldy and large (and undefinable) thing called "kulcher" is a DUD.

― hstencil, Monday, 19 May 2003 23:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I was asking a genuine question. I've never heard the word and wanted to know what it meant. These newfangled terms don't show up when I look them in in dictionaries. And culturalist would seem to imply someone is pro-culture, which sounds vague. Or is it a new term for cultural commentators? I was just wondering.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:56 (twenty-three years ago)

though I can see why you might think I was just being reactionary.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:58 (twenty-three years ago)

And culturalist would seem to imply someone is pro-culture

"Hi, I'm a manicurist. I'm very pro-manicure."

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 May 2003 23:59 (twenty-three years ago)

But yeah I think "culturalist" has a better ring to it than "cultural-studies type person."

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, "culturalist" rings of academic sectarianism. "Oh, I'm an Americanist." "I'm a Europeanist." "I'm a culturalist."

It doesn't seem appropriate for discussing This American Life commentators.

That said, I have no idea how to answer Jay MC's question because I am Mr. Grouch when it comes to contemporary cultural criticism. Actually I'm averse to the whole idea manifested by "contemporary cultural criticism," more or less.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:18 (twenty-three years ago)

hstencil: Well yes, submitting yourself to another's dogma is lame and for Commies or Pitchforkians. So to recap less ambiguously and more politely:

While I can see the limitations of Sarah Vowell's approach, I think she says enough interesting things about a broad range of topics to do with culture to be worth reading. However, others on this thread do not hold her thoughts in the same esteem, and have implied that others are saying much more interesting things about these topics. My question is, what specific writers or publications are saying more interesting things about a broad range of topics to do with culture than Sarah Vowell?

― b.R.A.d. (Brad), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:23 (twenty-three years ago)

David Foster Wallace? I must admit I know few who are under 50. I almost said Art Buchwald.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Hell, during the football season, a single Gregg Easterbrook's Tuesday Morning Quarterback column covers a broad range of cultural topics in a far more fascinating way than anything Vowell's produced in her career.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

When I read the complaints about her voice I thought y'all meant her "writer's voice" (having never heard her speaking voice), in which case DFW would be instantly disqualified but Thanks for answering the question.

― b.R.A.d. (Brad), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 00:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for being on my side, b.R.A.d.

This thread now makes me sad. JBR hates me.

(FWIW, of course humorists are interested in culture in the broad, anthropological sense of the word: how people behave. What I meant was that Vowell is interested in "arts and culture." I like that she writes about Sleater-Kinney, Piet Mondrian, and The Godfather. And ultimately, as I said earlier, what I like about her is also what I like about ILX. So now I'm confused, because you all hate her.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 04:04 (twenty-three years ago)

stence - that is because Gregg Easterbrook is some sort of God

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 04:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe I should also clarify: I've never thought of Vowell as a "humorist." To me, she's a personal essayist who is often witty. So maybe that's a humorist, okay. But I'm interested in the first-person perspective, the subjective angle, far more than I'm interested in the humor. What I want: essays on art and culture that aren't afraid of the personal and subjective.

Mainstream humorists like Barry and Buchwald don't count because they don't actively engage with art and culture. Most "contemporary culture critics" don't count because they're too academic and objective.

Wallace is actually a not-bad suggestion: I like a lot of A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again. Also, I mostly enjoyed Meghan Daum's My Misspent Youth -- though I don't remember much of it. A mostly academic writer who's nonetheless unafraid of anecdote and narrative: art critic Dave Hickey.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 04:25 (twenty-three years ago)

(Will have to read Easterbrook; don't know him.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 04:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, Hstencil, nobody is taking any author's work as THE WORD. I just want recommendations of writers I might enjoy, given my interests. Perhaps this is hopeless.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 04:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Dave Hickey sucks.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 13:02 (twenty-three years ago)

*cries; gives up*

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a pretty big Dave Hickey fan myself

I will never forget seeing a New Yorker listing in which Vowell, Ben Greenberg, and two Onion writers were said to be taking part in a panel discussion, topic "humor." My immediate response was, "You mean the Onion guys are going to teach the other two how to be funny?"

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

only if the Onion guys were coming in a time machine < /rimshot>

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:15 (twenty-three years ago)

I think while some aspects of Dave Hickey's writing is okay, overall I'm uncomfortable with critics who feel their job is to "debunk" what they perceive as "high culture." Usually it gets out of their control and their words/works just become fodder for anti-intellectual types. There's nothing in the "complex" or "challenging" to be afraid of, and I'm kinda tired of this constant perceived need by critics (whether academic or not) to "not be too smart." Our society has enough problems with encouraging stupidity, it doesn't need any help.

That and I think Norman Rockwell is only interesting up to a point.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the idea that Hickey is out to debunk "high culture" is missing the point by a long way! Debunk the institutions of the academic-gallery complex, maybe.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:38 (twenty-three years ago)

uh well I read Air Guitar like 3 or 4 years ago, so it's not exactly fresh in my mind, so I just used "high culture" as shorthand for whatever it was I was thinking about. But go ahead, draw your own conclusions based on a couple sentences I dashed out in a few minutes.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Haha

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

actually, that listing was sort of a shock, because it was literally the first time I'd ever thought of "Sarah Vowell" and "humor" in the same sentence. that's not even a dis--I'd read her for years (she wrote quite a bit in Minneapolis/St. Paul City Pages during the mid-'90s) and it simply never occurred to me that she was actually trying to be funny.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

she's not trying to be 'funny', she's trying to be 'humorous'. that whole 'this american life' crowd have algonquin ambitions, which is fair since their batting averages are about as high.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

you mean "humorous" as in mild? well, no fucking wonder then. (I knew that, actually, but should've probably spelled it out)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Who's the "whole This American Life crowd"?

Ira Glass? David Sedaris? David Rakoff? Scott Carrier?

Okay, Ira is totally full of himself. (This is gleaned more from friends who've met him than on-air personality, tho.) But Sedaris and Rakoff I find quite funny -- not all the time, but well enough. And Carrier is a good, compelling storyteller.

Is it all too middlebrow for you?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the Davids fine. Rakoff is a touch less stuffy, Sedaris the better vocal personality, at least given the little I've read/heard (have done more of the former--never listen to the radio). but I've been reading Vowell since '94 or so and it says something that I'm surprised whenever I actually like something of hers.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I just prefer Car Talk, and get sick of my friends going 'you MUST listen to This American Life' when it's just, you know, NPR. Both of the Sedaris' are funny as hell though.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahhh, maybe I just cling to Sarah's potential.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 16:56 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Janeane's a good actress though -- when she's not cameoing in crap underground-comedy films.
-- Jody Beth Rosen (edito...), January 17th, 2003.

Uh, no she's not. Has she ever made a good movie? Ever? She keeps appearing in shit film after shit film and then afterwards blaming everyone else in the movie for why it was bad. I can see that happening once or twice, but y'know, George W. Bush had a quote on making the same mistake three times.

In fact, the only funny movie I can remember her in, Wet Hot American Summer, was an underground comedy thing.

And, if I remember correctly, he stand up wasn't very good either. By the numbers early 90s Starbucks are EVERYWHERE stuff.

― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 7 November 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Apropos of nothing, it's a bit unsettling (from my own work-at-small-station-standpoint from past years' experience) how the general NPR wing has come to define the entirety of 'intelligent talk radio' among many, in that it's 1) only so many people and 2) my experience at KUCI was that there were always a variety of good talk shows out there station for station, and it was always important that many stations simply did NOT become a constant NPR stream at the expense of local/specific efforts. It's not that I am surprised that such a situation came about, that's the nature of a mass form of communication and all.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 November 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...

sarah's new book ("assassination vacation") is really good! it's the first thing she's done that's really impressed me.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

ned the change in npr came about because of the bs we've been living thru re: "new economy" since the mid-90s! gonna get even worse with the new cpb guy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The Sarah Vowell featurette on the Incredibles DVD gave me that little push I needed to move from mild disdain to full-blown homicidal mania. She's Sedaris, Eggers and Lisa Simpson all at once. Ugh.

― adam (adam), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I am kind of interested in reading her new book because I love reading about things like presidential assassins. Her stuff on npr, meh.

― Leon Jones Reynolds (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

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