one flew over seppuku's nest - a thread for SHOGUN on FX (2024)

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there's been some discussion on the streaming video thread, but this excellent show more than deserves its own. i know a lot of it probably comes from the novel, but they've done a great job of creating a tangled web of intgrigue, while making motivations clear and plot machinations surprising. a lot of fun characters too: hiroyuki sanada is incredibly compelling, nestor carbonell is an excellent foul-mouthed bastard, and my favorite so far, tadonobu asano is a lot of fun as the clumsy schemer yabushige

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAN5uspO_hk

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 18:41 (one month ago) link

A+ title good job

gbx, Wednesday, 6 March 2024 18:42 (one month ago) link

is anyone else watching Shōgun on Hulu?
It is sooooo goddamn good

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, March 3, 2024 12:32 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

It looks fantastic (same showrunner as Counterpart!) but I'll wait for it to finish before starting

― Vinnie, Sunday, March 3, 2024 9:00 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Loved the first episode of Shogun VG xps

Cosmo Jarvis certainly channeling his inner Tom Hardy. And that death by boiling scene was one of the most harrowing things I've seen in a TV show

Going to watch episode 2 tonight

― groovypanda, Sunday, March 3, 2024 10:30 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

loving it!
i said to Mr Veg it’s like chess with swords

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, March 3, 2024 10:33 AM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Really enjoying Shogun so far, although sometimes in spite of Cosmo Jarvis’s acting.

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, March 6, 2024 10:47 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Love Shogun, including Cosmo Jarvis's note-perfect Richard Burton impression. It's all so lush and intelligent and great.

― trishyb, Wednesday, March 6, 2024 10:50 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

episode 3 of Shōgun review:

in the book version of the scene where Toranaga invites Yabu to watch the sunrise with him, they end it by whipping out their dicks and pissing off the balcony together. it explicitly says they cross streams. i don't know why they cut that. 3.5 stars pic.twitter.com/C7JlfGwkpv

— lauren (@Very__Regular) March 6, 2024

― President Keyes, Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:12 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Um, in Ghostbusters they explicitly say not to cross the streams

― alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:59 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

shogun is really good. also extremely happy to hear nestor carbonell revive his batmanuel accent from the original 'the tick' live action series

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, March 6, 2024 12:19 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I loved the scene with the doctor in the latest episode.

They are doing a good job of subverting the White Savior trope.

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, March 6, 2024 12:38 PM (forty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 18:43 (one month ago) link

oh right - I'm up for this, for some reason I thought it was a cartoon. Probably the image on a torrent site made it look like a cartoon, duh.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 18:46 (one month ago) link

all three episodes have been pretty great so far. i get the complaints about cosmo jarvis, but i'm ok with him. he is overacting a bit, but he plays really well off of sanada and carbonell and the other cast members, despite mostly not even speaking to them in the same language

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 19:23 (one month ago) link

omg this show rules so hard
i don’t remember much from the original mini series but i love that in this new version Blackthorne is already so out for himself & with an obvious ax to grind and not just the white savior

the head chopping is INTENSE
scared me every time

i haven’t watched ep3 yet

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 23:07 (one month ago) link

always happy to see nestor carbonell btw

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 23:07 (one month ago) link

"I don’t remember much from the original mini series"

all I remember is Richard Chamberlain aka Dr Kildare!

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 6 March 2024 23:13 (one month ago) link

same lol

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 7 March 2024 00:17 (one month ago) link

mifune was also in the original, which i haven't seen.

i remember the book being disappointing, 1100 pages of disappointing. was also a good chunk of Japanese history but with all the names changed, so not even educational

koogs, Thursday, 7 March 2024 03:29 (one month ago) link

hiroyuki sanada is such a terrific actor, i love his performance as Toronaga

he holds so many emotions at once, entire worlds.

i mean they’re all pretty great but yeah, i love him.

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 7 March 2024 05:59 (one month ago) link

agreed he's good.

realized that todanobu asano (yabushige) is basically doing a mifune impression. an entertaining one tho!

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Thursday, 7 March 2024 15:36 (one month ago) link

i just started this.. just me or is the photography much more film-like than what you usually get on streaming services these days? there’s a certain look that netflix shows have, high contrast, slick, inky blacks, and in this i feel like i can see the grain of the film. i kinda love it

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Friday, 8 March 2024 08:25 (one month ago) link

what could have been

Oh my god https://t.co/tAyGCVfqnd pic.twitter.com/UERjTEaoGu

— 𝕯𝖎𝖑𝖉𝖔 𝕭𝖆𝖌𝖌𝖎𝖓𝖘 (@EmmaTolkin) March 12, 2024

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 12 March 2024 14:56 (one month ago) link

havent watched yet but wanted to note the absolute excellence of this thread title

close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Tuesday, 12 March 2024 17:21 (one month ago) link

*bows*

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Thursday, 14 March 2024 03:31 (one month ago) link

lol tobunaga’s shitass son really fucked it up now great job no notes

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 14 March 2024 03:45 (one month ago) link

Sorry to be a downer - I really wanted to like this show but it just annoys the fuck out of me. Cosmo Jarvis is trying so hard to be Tom Hardy but it's just not working, he just looks like a big dumb lunk in every scene.

and i don't agree that the show is doing all that well at subverting the white saviour trope - he is repeatedly rude and condescending to his hosts but gets promoted to a high rank instead of getting his head lopped off; he is allegedly a brutal, pillaging pirate who's been lost at sea for months but is portrayed as a man of honour who will say no to gifts, weapons and women (sure); and of course the badass main female character still can't wait to sleep with him even after she finds out about his past, and does so just because he took a bath lol

I like everything else about the show though and yeah that ending with toranaga's son was great, I think I just want a series about a Japanese shogunate without the obnoxious white guy they can't seem to kill off

Roz, Thursday, 14 March 2024 04:20 (one month ago) link

fair enough

blackthorne/jarvis doesn’t bother me so much, he just seems like a shlub who’s only real talent is inflating his importance

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 14 March 2024 05:00 (one month ago) link

"he just looks like a big dumb lunk in every scene"

lol, was thinking why is this gym instructor ruining every scene with some otherwise decent actors doing a good job. Terrible casting decision imo, they should have boiled him alive in the first ep.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Thursday, 14 March 2024 06:22 (one month ago) link

"a succulent chinese meal!"

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Thursday, 14 March 2024 14:51 (one month ago) link

watched the fourth episode on monday, and cosmo jarvis is growing on me. he's toned it down along with his character as he grows more comfortable with japanese society

yabushige's nephew becoming a surprisingly shrewd political operator is an interesting development

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 20 March 2024 15:27 (one month ago) link

Just caught up with most of the episodes over the past few days (still need to see the one from earlier this week). I kinda agree with all points above (typical) in that I'm both entertained and thinking 'Hmm.' Roz's points go to the heart of it because I can't get over the fact that Clavell -- a true head case whose Ayn Rand worshipping REALLY shows once you know it's there -- ultimately created a character like Blackthorne, who seems to function for Clavell as a Gary Stu first and foremost. Also read a story talking about how careful they were with their screenwriting/translating team to not make the Japanese characters speak/evince thoughts in modernisms but that memo doesn't seem to have entirely been delivered for Blackthorne per points above.

That said: there's definite nostalgia in my brain for the original miniseries, even if I was all of only nine years old when it ran, so it's been interesting doing various compare/contrasts -- I still remember being very surprised at the piss scene near the start! -- and the cast really is pretty killer overall (Sanada, Sawai, Asano, Hira, fucking murderers' row right there honestly, and Carbonell is doing great at a character played by John Rhys-Davies while not making me think of John Rhys-Davies). As for ol' Cosmo, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking "Boy, that is REALLY a Richard Burton he's doing there," but he does that pretty well, at least vocally. Friend of mine who regularly visits Japan wasn't buying the British Columbia filming locations at all but I don't mind and generally the shifted focus where it's not just Richard Chamberlain/Toshiro Mifune/everyone else helps.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 March 2024 18:03 (one month ago) link

only watched epi 1 but hope the english dies soon

LaMDA barry-stanners (||||||||), Saturday, 23 March 2024 18:55 (four weeks ago) link

lol

nashwan, Saturday, 23 March 2024 19:13 (four weeks ago) link

I think I just want a series about a Japanese shogunate without the obnoxious white guy they can't seem to kill off

OTM I failed to notice it wasn't gonna be this until after halfway thru the first episode but by the end I was still just about impressed and intrigued enough that I'll carry on

nashwan, Saturday, 23 March 2024 19:19 (four weeks ago) link

cosmo moves like vincent d'onofrio as rhe cockroach-man alien in MIB

mark s, Saturday, 23 March 2024 19:27 (four weeks ago) link

only watched epi 1 but hope the english dies soon

I have bad news for you.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 23 March 2024 20:37 (four weeks ago) link

my kids flagged in ep 2, very talky. i will keep with it tho. the photography continues to just floor me. have you guys noticed how often they use a kind of vignette effect? it all conspires to look like an old photograph yet somehow in crisp 4K.

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 23 March 2024 21:43 (four weeks ago) link

Yeah I’ve caught that a couple of times, it’s subtle but striking

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 23 March 2024 23:30 (four weeks ago) link

lol at the whole hung-pheasant sequence, i am so old i remember this er gamification taking place in the part of the country i grew up in (local farmers like to shoot things but would hand the results to neighbours to prepare and eat)

however it was placed in a zinc box pierced w/holes too small to let flies in

mark s, Monday, 25 March 2024 20:08 (four weeks ago) link

I think I just want a series about a Japanese shogunate without the obnoxious white guy they can't seem to kill off

There must be something like this on netflix or prime, right? Japan produces a ridiculous amount of historical drama shows.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 08:49 (three weeks ago) link

As for this show I'm enjoying it - decent simulacrum of all my fave samurai films about bushido being a fig leaf for a corrupt system, will watch Sanada in anything - but I notice the attention to authenticity does not extend to having any of these anglo bums speak some Portuguese.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 08:53 (three weeks ago) link

I guess you'd then have to hire different (and substantially less well-known) actors? And, speaking for some of the people I know who are watching this, I can imagine the mix of fluent Japanese and presumably less-than-perfect Portuguese would be a bridge too far for some viewers.

trishyb, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 09:30 (three weeks ago) link

My complaint was mostly tongue in cheek. Thankfully I am broad minded enough that having to watch a show in English isn't a bridge too far for me yet. ;)

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 15:08 (three weeks ago) link

Speaking of killing off obnoxious white guys, wasn't there an adaptation of Silence where the priests were speaking Portuguese instead of English-speaking star wars actors?

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 15:16 (three weeks ago) link

My complaint was mostly tongue in cheek.

You young people with your humour.

I often forget when I'm watching it that the people who are speaking English are not meant to be speaking English at all, except when they are. At least they didn't do the Warrior/Hunt for Red October thing.

trishyb, Tuesday, 26 March 2024 16:04 (three weeks ago) link

The controlled mood of the most recent episode was quite something.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 March 2024 02:06 (three weeks ago) link

i loved the perspective shift to Mariko and Ruri/Lady Ochiba

every week i am absolutely glued to the screen, it’s good!!

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 27 March 2024 02:41 (three weeks ago) link

> wasn't there an adaptation of Silence where the priests were speaking Portuguese instead of English-speaking star wars actors?

there was an earlier version by Shinoda in the 70s,

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0067755/?ref_=fn_al_tt_18

koogs, Wednesday, 27 March 2024 19:48 (three weeks ago) link

man this show really knows how to end a goddamn episode

this week: fucking excellent again, zero notes plz continue

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 05:18 (two weeks ago) link

Yup, that was an episode of excellent tension building -- and indeed amazing final 'score' into the end credits.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 00:22 (two weeks ago) link

Thought next week was the finale for some reason but stoked to discover it's actually a 10 episode season.

groovypanda, Wednesday, 3 April 2024 20:14 (two weeks ago) link

Toranaga at the end of every episode pic.twitter.com/aYU52JZQqd

— 𝕯𝖎𝖑𝖉𝖔 𝕭𝖆𝖌𝖌𝖎𝖓𝖘 (𝘚𝘩𝘰̄𝘨𝘶𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘢) (@EmmaTolkin) April 8, 2024

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Monday, 8 April 2024 23:00 (two weeks ago) link

lmao its v true

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 8 April 2024 23:27 (two weeks ago) link

show really leaning into that thread title now

also idk if i have the fortitude to ride out Toranaga’s 12-D chess jesus christ

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 05:28 (one week ago) link

Yeah this is all getting insane, in the best way. I thought the tea ceremony scene was intense but then the council and THEN the aftermath scene, good god. I'm glad I don't remember much from the original miniseries about how it all ended because the ramping up!

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 21:16 (one week ago) link

tea ceremony was so beautiful omg

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 21:24 (one week ago) link

Also, hadn't realized that Hiroyuki Sanada and Tokuma Nishioka have been acting buds forever now! Great article about that and this episode, spoilers obv.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 21:55 (one week ago) link

oh very cool, didn’t know they had that connection!

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 22:38 (one week ago) link

when is this wee proddy fuc carking it. vile anti-catholic bigotry abounding

LaMDA barry-stanners (||||||||), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 08:29 (one week ago) link

great show though apart from that. tea ceremony scene in this epi was

LaMDA barry-stanners (||||||||), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 08:41 (one week ago) link

I really hate that fucking actor playing the proddy troglodyte, but otherwise the cast are great.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 09:42 (one week ago) link

I enjoy that both performance and writing make him seem like a clueless, entitled English tourist. It's sad that he ends up smarter than he seems but the scenes of him in full bluster being ignored by everyone are hilarious.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 09:46 (one week ago) link

it might just be how it was on the set, rest of the cast ignoring entitled English actor's bluster

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 09:49 (one week ago) link

Kashigi is a compelling and amusing character, he has this stoic loyalty to Toranaga but also slates him behind his back and makes a snarky comment about his son dying a stupid death!

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 10:10 (one week ago) link

The pronunciation of "cockroach" this episode was A+++ lols

completely suited to the horny decadence (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 10:48 (one week ago) link

another excellent episode, the scene between toranaga and hiromatsu was the best of the series so far

also chuckled at the scene when the portugeuse priest realizes his prized church will be located next to a brothel

the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 16:15 (one week ago) link

Gotta sin to get saved

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 17:11 (one week ago) link

yeah that was great

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 17:50 (one week ago) link

I've been holding off on the official podcast because those generally always seem like so much promo (and I'm sure that's the case with this too) but I'm interested enough to give them an ear after the series wraps up.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 17:55 (one week ago) link

they are intetesting: a lot of interview w different actors, historian, set decorator, stunt coordinator .. a lot of variety. My only small quibble is it’s too short, given the richness of the show & level of detail all these folks bring to it, could do with longer conversations in some places

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 18:12 (one week ago) link

Hahaha...you know, I *thought* that subtitle font they're using felt familiar.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 19:06 (one week ago) link

wow, surprises round every corner

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 21:04 (one week ago) link

Okay yeah, he would do that. Per the Sawai interview:

Q. How did you find your scenes with Cosmo, bringing out this side of her that is really tartly funny and mysterious?

A. It was very organic because we shot it chronologically. The first time that she does meet (Blackthorne), I didn’t know Cosmo too well. I was still trying to figure him out. And as we shot, I would open up to him and he would to me. Cosmo is very different from me. I saw him as John Blackthorne most of the time. His voice was different. I only heard his real voice a couple of months ago for press.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 23:04 (one week ago) link

Finally caught up. Such a stunning production. I have to rewatch some of the scenes since I’ve been missing bits of dialog while marveling at the beauty of the shots fabrics faces etc.

that's not my post, Thursday, 11 April 2024 04:50 (one week ago) link

i know i keep saying this but omg this fucking show

i am going to need to lie down in a darkened room for a week to get over all of this emotional intensity & sadness

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 16 April 2024 16:44 (six days ago) link

GREAT episode! (#9)

completely suited to the horny decadence (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 16 April 2024 16:53 (six days ago) link

intense

LaMDA barry-stanners (||||||||), Tuesday, 16 April 2024 20:52 (six days ago) link

What a shot to end on.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 April 2024 01:12 (five days ago) link

JFC the last scene

that's not my post, Thursday, 18 April 2024 04:55 (four days ago) link

caught up with this series over the last week or so and i love it, it's a real treat to have a compelling story so lavishly depicted - the production design and the costumes are gorgeous

tadonobu asano, hiroyuki sanada and anna sawai are obv the mvps but i think cosmo jarvis is really good at playing someone who is constantly having to listen carefully and search people's faces for meaning, which is kind of a thankless onscreen task he pulls off v convincingly

i also enjoy his very blocky screen presence, he's shaped like a minecraft character

one thing i love about the way it looks is how the wide-angle shots often have a subtle fisheye curve to them, with straight lines bowing at the edges of the frame, and how the out-of-focus areas in some closeups have a similarly striking circular bokeh, very different from the way modern lenses usually look

i'd love to hear from the production team as to why they chose to shoot things that way - maybe the distortions and imperfections do help give it the kind of 'visual antique' feeling like tracer suggested upthread when he noted the heavy vignettes that sometimes show up at the edge of the frame

memphis milano: the new trend of the 80s (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 18 April 2024 11:29 (four days ago) link

This article has background on some of the production and cinematography choices including use of anamorphic lenses

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2024/4/8/24124015/shogun-cinematography-tv-background-blur-anamorphic-lens-effect

that's not my post, Thursday, 18 April 2024 15:42 (four days ago) link

On a merrier note, I have amazed/befuddled my podcast cohosts with the fact that this existed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dgun:_The_Musical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_GcrzB_Pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJaU0PO5bw

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 April 2024 16:28 (four days ago) link


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