new-nu-Who: RTD2 (Doctor Who on telly 2023-?)

For discussion of the second era of Russell T Davies writing & producing and Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter producing Dr. Who.

So far 01: four wraparound "Tales Of The TARDIS" intros for streaming repeats of Earthshock, first one here

(wraparounds for Mind Robber and Fenric were written by Pete McTighe, wraparounds for Varos, 3Docs and Time Meddler by Phil Ford.)

So far 02: A comedy sketch for Children In Need

Today: The Star Beast (adapting elements of the Mills & Gibbons strip from 1980, based on a rejected Mills & Wagner TV pitch, collected in The Iron Legion paperback), the first of three weekly 60th anniversary Tennant/Tate specials, now on BBC iPlayer and now or soon on Disney Plus anywhere else that has Disney Plus.

(A Christmas special with Ncuti Gatwa in the lead is likely to air one month from today, but not confirmed yet.)


Previous chitchat here.

we kinda thought this was trash

I really loved it, not just for nostalgia, and even the bits that I rolled my eyes at (binary/non-binary) I was at least aware that it would be winding up the worst people in the world.

it all felt like setup

maybe we should have just waited to watch until next week

There were six Tales of the TARDIS episodes.

Fun! Liked it.

Eyeroll/winding up OTM

Thought this was run of the mill RTD as a story without any particular lols but otherwise doing its job and the TARDIS interior was pretty cool.

Agree it was run of the mill in some ways but what a relief after the last lot. And it still leaped over the low bar set by Chibnall.

I am looking forward to (allegedly) however RTD lampshades Flux destroying the universe.

There were six Tales of the TARDIS episodes.

I believe if you tally the six that I listed, they will add up to six

four wraparound "Tales Of The TARDIS" intros

If only I had thought to include any other words in that sentence, or post.

this was fine, perhaps even good - my 11 year old watched happily (although I think he slumped over a bit during that last TARDIS chat)

was surprised by how continuity-heavy it was, i thought they might try and make a tidier jumping-on point for a new Disney audience

This was great

Somehow I completely missed that Rose was trans in the promo run-up; I thought they handled that very Whoishly

Somehow I completely missed that Rose was trans in the promo run-up; I thought they handled that very Whoishly

as someone who likes, essentially, two of RTD's first-round episodes (and hugely enjoyed or admired every piece of his output since), I went into this expecting to at best quietly respect his ability to craft broad, populist entertainment that isn't to my taste in same.

that said, twelve seconds in: omg the recap, the exposition, the emotion, what a piece of craft for that returning anniversary audience

thirteen seconds in: AN OLD DOCTOR WHO MATERIALIZED DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM CYBERDOG rusty you pop whore ilu

murray can fuck off tho

12.5 seconds in: mills AND gibbons story credit IN THE OPENING TITLES heart eyes emoji

one hour later: what a delight. playing the nostalgia mystery both as a completely new riff on old-doctor-for-anniversary trope and drawing back the casual general audience. madeley/tennant chemistry not only immediately on the level of pertwee/unit (in a way the TV version of KLS never approached) but also reminiscent of the only good thing abt Partners In Crime. the meep/wrarth twist handled fantastically by both the script and Margolyes. every time I eyerolled at something being handled way too obvi, I was won over to the big emotion play within seconds. Talalay getting to play comedy in a way that suits her but she's not been given on the show before (could have been much more of this but it was still nice to see). Tate absolutely COOKING. Shaun new MVP of the family-used-as-exposition-through-character. (and after Bill looked SO like Sharon that I wondered if it even occurred to Moffatt, there are enough connex in the Sharon -> Bill -> nu-Rose sequence that it adds extra anniversary fan-candy nuance)

lol @ me: during the crawl through the terrace attics, I was like "now THIS is how you use this setting for stakes, unlike in my possible favourite ep of all time" then it being overturned TWICE in a way that would have made me go triple-aldo in the OG RTD era.

and oh yeah the new TARDIS interior! I rarely care much about the revisions, but as an '80s Who baby, huge white walls that are mostly roundels FEELS "right" in a way that also pushed happy buttons for the anniversary.

otoh “just let go”.

TARDIS interior was cool tho.

was surprised by how continuity-heavy it was, i thought they might try and make a tidier jumping-on point for a new Disney audience

I didn't see anything of the Chibnall run but have seen all of the first RTD and the Moffat series. Is anything Chibnall necessary or advantageous to jump back in with the new specials?

All you need to know is that the Doctor was a woman at one point, really

(two points?)

ha nope not required, you are well-advised to stay away from the chibnall era! new ep really only refers back to the end of the Donna run - and there are plenty of (slightly awkward) refreshers - i guess the basic setup is basic enough and simply explained - donna can’t remember the doctor - but all the extra detail and lingo was quite confusing for the very casual viewers in my house

i, as usual, lost interest about 30 minutes in. and having watched a dozen or so of the old 25 minute episodes i think a large part of what's missing, for me, is the cliffhangers (along with the more digestible length)

nice to see DT back though. thought new tardis was too big if anything, not that it matters given the nature of the thing.

murray can fuck off tho

Honestly think this guy has ruined Who far more than Chibnall. The new theme is terrible and within minutes was sick of the usual overblown score.

Although it was trailer-spoiled I did like the ET bit. Don't suppose there was a bit like that in the comic story so it turns out Spielberg ripped it off?

And I am looking forward to the NPH/Celestial Toymaker one honest.

So RTD technobabble is back in a big way huh?

This was mostly decent, Tate and Tennant are such a fun team.

i may have to watch that ending again but i don’t know how I feel about the implication that the metacrisis made Rose trans, and that was also maybe why she chose her name. (Also I don’t buy that she wouldn’t get into the Tardis with Donna and the Doctor at the end.)

I harp about this a lot, but in his New Adventures novel, RTD had a character from the future bone a bone a gay character in the middle of a stakeout at the height of the AIDS epidemic so that the 80s character could develop HIV-immunity from an injection of 30th-century sperm so that whole denouement read to me like someone was reining RTD’s worse storytelling impulses in a bit

I guess it was a blowjob rather than full-on anal but still wildly out of character

holy shit

I must have some kind of Stockholm Syndrome with Murray Gold, because although he's still very annoying, it feels much more like "real Who is back" when he's clodding over everything.

The new theme tune is multiple squares of OTT, but sort of exciting too? The original Ecclestone theme is still his best one.

My personal cringezone with New Adventures is Ace storming off at the end of "Love and War", a very terrible bit of writing (by Paul Cornell)

This was merely boring instead of an immediate hate watch which is a clear improvement over the last couple seasons. 50-something minutes felt long, and some of the scenes (rescue from Chez Noble) could have been edited way down.

I really enjoyed this

I loved the pacing, like backstory/new alium invasion/old characters/new characters; it’s all moving along on rails simultaneously in an adept way

Donna/Doctor moments were all gold, such good emotional moments throughout from all of them honestly

A timely reminder that once upon a time even generic Doctor Who episodes were very entertaining!

murray can fuck off tho

His action cues are no worse than standard Hollywood scores really, but when he goes for emotional or god forbid comical it's unbearable.

Yeah was watching unicorn and the wasp last week. Very generic but lots of fun. It has a certain ease with just existing on simple terms, which Moffat’s period struggled with

when he goes for emotional or god forbid comical it's unbearable

I counted at least three scenes where I essentially thought "There's some really good acting here with stakes. Sure wish I could pay attention to it because of all the fucking sonic glop over it."

(Fun episode, I'll add.)

Also, a massive bravo for choosing his first episode back to send an unequivocal message to young trans fans.

And enjoyed how Rose's identity was actually used in the plot resolution rather than just being a thing her character was (Admittedly in a slightly hokey way, but hey it's Dr Who)

a LOT of oof in the resolution, but the Doctor's "oh, I do that!" re pronouns earlier was such a beast line that it outweighs anything else.

agree w those last three posts

I had a disparaging comment about RTD’s usual mode of subtlety that read as mean to unintended targets when I started typing it but suffice to say it could have been about a billion times more awful, so I’m relieved that I only ended up rolling my eyes a bit

xxpost yeah i liked that line !

Tennant is extremely comfortable in this role, it’s a joy to watch him just dominate the screen even when taking the sonic screwdriver to new levels of wtf

on dr who confidential there's a great bit where the writers of the original comic are visiting and DT basically interrupts to tell them how much of a fan he is

(Dave Gibbons was the artist - equally important as an author, just noting ftr.)

(and wagner wasn't there. yeah, was using shorthand)

I am seeing some absolutely DERANGED ranting about this harmless, charming episode, mostly centered around the “men can’t let things go” line which honestly I didn’t even register when I watched it, possibly because I was also wrangling my kids

feel the franchise needs a proper new broom

could be worth bringing in someone from outside completely, rather than someone with history as a writer on the show. Though Gattis has never been showrunner, right? Is Gattis still good? Was he ever?

No and no.

xp yes totally that’s what i was getting at - RTD2 was blighted by all this Sutekh/Rani shit that nobody wanted not even the rusted ons - throw all that in the bin

needs a top down rethink unburdened by any sense of responsibility to the past - other than core concept “this show can pretty much do anything”

we need a broccoli-headed hipster with a wonky scarf

https://variety.com/2025/tv/global/doctor-who-disney-exits-bbc-partnership-2026-christmas-special-1236563403/

I feel like they never recovered from starting with that awful Space Babies episode. They got better! I've only watched 2 of Season 2 though. The first season was fun, Space Babies aside.

Space Babies! Bloody hell. A real WWHT moment.

could be worth bringing in someone from outside completely, rather than someone with history as a writer on the show.

Ever more obvious that it should have been Mathieson in 2018, with Dollard also staying as regular. (RTD only doing the 60th anniversary specials would have also played very differently in that regard, mere gleeful nostalgia in conversation with whatever the show had been since, instead of a flop-sweat reaction to Chibnall.)

I would also like to point out that I have been OTM fifteen years ago saying that Paul Hartnoll should have replaced Murray Gold. But maybe handing over during The Eleventh Hour, so he could have still done variations on the I Am The Doctor hero theme.

i don’t really understand why RTD didn’t take the disney deal as an opportunity to fully reconfigure the show for a new audience, maybe he tried and was thwarted somehow? but yeah as the ostensible first salvo in a Who As Global Brand effort, space babies should have been a Rose-style “meet the companion then meet the Doctor” number, not a nightmare bad concept poorly executed, you could just feel millions of people thinking “ok, not for me” and never returning

xxp

he old iirc

(most of his writing post-RTD1 vastly >>>> RTD2. but he made a just-too-late judgment call on how dumb / family / shiny-floor nu-nu-RTD ² could go at all, and bounced off the cusp)

I don't have a problem referencing the past, just depends how it's done, i.e. needs to be a compelling story rather than fan service. But some new ideas would be welcome. I know they need to have experienced TV writers in rather than novelists or comics creators (not that they're mutually exclusive - plenty of Who writers have done both) but some familiarity with more recent SF, comics and weird fiction beyond the MCU or Netflix would inject some new life into the show, just as the 2000AD and Love & Rockets influence did in the Cartmell era. DW has never been hard SF and things like the Bridgerton episode were fun, but I don't think they need to be scared of being nerdy.
Tbf, there was a clear Saga nod in the Juno Dawson penned episode with the horn-headed character - again a promising episode that just felt rushed. It's an issue with the format rather than any single writer - too little time to build a backstory to the baddies - but there are surely better resolutions than the expository dump.
One thing I'm fairly confident in is RTD doubling down on the woeness. The more bigoted Daily Mail readers and reactionary centrist he pisses off the better.

WOKENESS!

some juicy quotes in here

https://deadline.com/2025/10/why-disney-ditched-doctor-bbc-1236601181/

so, farewell then*

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/jun/10/bbc-abandons-plans-for-doctor-who-christmas-special

*possibly

Despite hating the direction things were going, I’m sad about this. I am happy for the extra years of my favorite television show and hold out hope that it will go through another rebirth before I hit retirement age.

Despite hating the direction things were going, I’m sad about this. I am happy for the extra years of my favorite television show and hold out hope that it will go through another rebirth before I hit retirement age.

Despite hating the direction things were going, I’m sad about this. I am happy for the extra years of my favorite television show and hold out hope that it will go through another rebirth before I hit retirement age.

lol whoops

^ timey wimey

Last rumor I'd heard was they were going to give it to Charlie Brooker so...

Judging from the online reaction, it's quite striking how many people don't know what "putting the show out to tender" means - it's not the same as putting it out to pasture! There'll be a new series in a few years' time!

I'm fine with a break. Last few seasons were dismally bad.

yeah this show needs to take a nap and wake up refreshed

Judging from the online reaction, it's quite striking how many people don't know what "putting the show out to tender" means - it's not the same as putting it out to pasture! There'll be a new series in a few years' time!

― bamboohouses, Wednesday, June 10, 2026 6:27 AM (three hours ago)

well it's more that the bbc know better than to just outright say "we're cancelling doctor who", the fans get a whiff of that and there'll be a fucking i-- l----- charity single in camden market next tuesday

i give the bbc very little credit but i will at least credit them for sparing us _that_ horror

my feelings are basically relief. i do not believe that the bbc as of this moment is capable of producing a quality "doctor who" show. i lived through the first wilderness years, and i'm ready for round 2. god, maybe big finish will start putting on some better-quality scripts. maybe they're doing good scripts now, but it is a very large haystack. i'd love it if jodie whittaker and ncuti gatwa could do stories better than the ones they got on tv, the way colin baker and paul mcgann did. (i don't know if either of them would do big finish work mind you!)

to my mind doctor who requires change, revitalization, and i'll be blunt, there hasn't been someone who isn't a cis white man at the helm since verity lambert (we can quibble about what "at the helm" actually means, but i'm not aware of anyone else who qualifies). having said that, much love to white cis gay men as a group, the show wouldn't be where it is without you, your experience and perspectives will always be a fundamental part of what doctor who is. just please. someone who's not a white cis man.

and i don't mean fucking jk rowling. i mean there's a new generation of fans who grew up loving the show, the 2005 iteration of the show, and, given time and opportunity, some of them will have a lot to say. that may or may not be on a bbc tv show. we'll see how things evolve. i'm here to see what the woke-ass fans can do.

I fully agree on your diagnosis and your prescription Kate! Beyond time that kind of change is made at the top.

Doctor Who has not been cancelled though - the special has. The tender process means that a variety of independent producers will submit proposals as to how they would take the show forward, and the contract will be awarded to one of them. It means - for the first time since 2005 - there will be proper consideration given to a range of different approaches, rather than it being handed to whichever New Adventures-era male writer has exec'ed a splashy production in the last 18 months. I actually think this is the correct outcome!

A sort of good thing about the longer break is it justifies Gatwa's imo awful, abrupt exit (Piper appearance aside) more...in my head at least. Come back in 2 years with a TV movie.

please god give it to someone who doesn’t know or give a fuck what artron energy is

i don't know what that is. but i don't want the job

Doctor Who has not been cancelled though - the special has. The tender process means that a variety of independent producers will submit proposals as to how they would take the show forward, and the contract will be awarded to one of them. It means - for the first time since 2005 - there will be proper consideration given to a range of different approaches, rather than it being handed to whichever New Adventures-era male writer has exec'ed a splashy production in the last 18 months. I actually think this is the correct outcome!

― bamboohouses, Wednesday, June 10, 2026 11:05 AM (three hours ago)

my only stake in this is that i would like doctor who, at some point, to once again be a show i look forward to watching

this actually has very little to do with doctor who itself and a lot to do with my years-prolonged state of anhedonic depression

make doctor who good again - free ketamine and communism for everyone

or at least for british people, y'all deserve better

I fear not

yeah this show needs to take a nap and wake up refreshed

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Thursday, June 11, 2026 12:15 AM (thirteen hours ago)

counterpoint: it would be better to make and broadcast it, so it can be refreshed by new people working on it.

reminder that it took a longer-than-a-year nap between every season of Chibnall, and only woke up more sluggish than before each time. (plus when it turned out Chibnall's first nap was going to be THIRTY-FOUR MONTHS long, Moffat unresigned* so hard that a new companion was written, cast, filmed and on air in a special minisode shown at half-time in the FA cup semi-final four months after his final episode. the ensuing series was one of his best ever, and brought back two new writers from the previous season, who showed themselves to have enough ideas to carry on for years.)

*and unresigned a second time to make sure it wouldn't even have a 50-week nap after that.


Doctor Who ran for 26 years changing its tone, cast, production model and creative personnel willy and/or nilly, and every time it got a bit shit or the public got a bit bored of it, the creative personnel changed and it got good and/or the public got interested in it again.

The only time it ever got cancelled (because the creative personnel hadn't changed for years and an executive who wasn't creative had been convinced to put loads and loads of references to old stories and characters in it all the time), it got uncancelled days later, had an 18-month nap, and came back even worse with the same creative personnel.

Three weeks after being refused the chance to work on another show, the executive then hired the only existing writer(s) he liked to rush out four scripts based on a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book they'd already written, based on scripts that they'd had rejected by the production office two years earlier. Three weeks after that, he hired a new showrunner with no experience but who'd said in his job interview that his ideal for Doctor Who would be to overthrow the Thatcher government, so seemed fun. The first four scripts resulted in some of the worst Who ever made; the twenty-something's subsequent commissions resulted in a new approach to Dr Who so exciting that it inspired basically everyone who kept it alive and interesting in novels and audio for over a decade, and then brought it back to TV.

I'm fine with a break. Last few seasons were dismally bad.

― fluffy tufts university (f. hazel), Thursday, June 11, 2026 12:03 AM (thirteen hours ago)

considering that most of those were by Chris Chibnall: well, yeah. Each half of RTD2's basically-one production series had more good episodes written by him than his original five years put together, though - he just should never have been allowed to write season finales ever again.

(I liked the one-second Billie cliffhanger tho.)

One of the strengths of the Cartmel era was how in touch it was with 2000 AD (Greatest Show In The Galaxy being the most obvious), Love & Rockets (Ace as Maggie/Hopey) etc. Whereas I never got the sense that Moffat* and RTD were paying attention to any contemporary comics or SFF beyond blockbuster movies. Some of the writers of recent episodes did engage with more contemporary stuff, but it was overshadowed by RTD's horrible attempts to replicate the MCU, UNIT as Shield etc.

*Reworking gothic and Victorian fiction is a fine Who tradition of course, and Moffat did it pretty well, but read some other books lads!

^ again another thing that Mathieson absolutely had going for him! all of his own episodes were a clear and distinct Who-y take on a theme, and if Moffat gave him some old shit from the 20th century to rework, he made it feel vibrant enough

Jamieson's episodes were good, always seemed odd that Chibnall and RTD didn't ask him back. Likewise, Sarah Dollard, although she's been busy with other things.

RTD brought in some promising younger writers during his second run, but with the exception of Rogue, their episodes didn't quite come off. I liked the Saga nods in Juno Dawson's episode (the human-fawn antagonists), but it felt too rushed, without much space for character or world-building. Probably not her fault so much as that of the format and RTD's desire for spectacle. And The Story & The Engine was intriguing in theory, but whether through writing or direction, didn't quite work.

(Ace as Maggie/Hopey)

this literally never occurred to me until just this minute. Ace is easily one of my favorite companions of the entire run and now that makes sense.

Doctor Who ran for 26 years changing its tone, cast, production model and creative personnel willy and/or nilly, and every time it got a bit shit or the public got a bit bored of it, the creative personnel changed and it got good and/or the public got interested in it again.

The only time it ever got cancelled (because the creative personnel hadn't changed for years and an executive who wasn't creative had been convinced to put loads and loads of references to old stories and characters in it all the time), it got uncancelled days later, had an 18-month nap, and came back even worse with the same creative personnel.

Three weeks after being refused the chance to work on another show, the executive then hired the only existing writer(s) he liked to rush out four scripts based on a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book they'd already written, based on scripts that they'd had rejected by the production office two years earlier. Three weeks after that, he hired a new showrunner with no experience but who'd said in his job interview that his ideal for Doctor Who would be to overthrow the Thatcher government, so seemed fun. The first four scripts resulted in some of the worst Who ever made; the twenty-something's subsequent commissions resulted in a new approach to Dr Who so exciting that it inspired basically everyone who kept it alive and interesting in novels and audio for over a decade, and then brought it back to TV.

absolutely there's something to be said for desperation. season six of the original show, for instance, was utterly dire, and the two workmanlike scripts by some new guy named robert holmes didn't exactly stand out. for doctor who to be good it does have to go through those years when nobody knows what the fuck they're doing, when you put in people who didn't have a lot of experience in tv and didn't have any budget and made some shows that were, on a technical level, appalling.

i mean, if you can convince the bbc to let some young people who don't know what they're doing make two seasons of cheap and tatty doctor who on tv because that's how doctor who gets good, i salute you. honestly i think it would be easier for you lot to actually overthrow your horrific shambling thatcherite corpse of a government (most _certainly_ including the BBC) _without_ first making a BBC version of doctor who with that as its goal. and i'm saying that from a place where we have, well, some _very serious problems_ ourselves.

it's kind of like how i stan the animated missing episodes, cuz they tend to be shit. they animated the "celestial toymaker" and made it look like an off-brand version of "the amazing digital circus". i have _tremendous_ amounts of respect for that. if '00s who exists in the shadow of buffy, any new-nu-who... i'd like to see it exist in the shadow of something like "the amazing digital circus", specifically because i don't watch it and most people my age haven't even heard of it.

ok that's it, that's my pitch

baker and martin should go to glitch productions and ask them to make a new k-9 series, no input from them, no strings attached, just here's k-9, do whatever the fuck you want with that

_that_ is how you get good doctor who

or i don't know whoever owns k-9. i don't actually know who's still alive at this point. i just know there was an australian k-9 series and it sucked and it would be _very possible_ for there to be an australian k-9 series that _doesn't_ suck.

Dave Martin’s only Doctor Who since 1979’s The Armageddon Factor was another book in that line of Choose Yr Own Adventures, in 1986, and he died the year before Bob Baker’s last Oscar nomination.

The company that’s making 26 episodes of animated Dr Who for 2027 and another 26 for 2028 won two Emmys in 2021 and an Annie in 2020.

mark my words, within a few years they are going to officially embrace using AI for those missing episodes. people are already doing it on youtube to surprisingly good effect, I am reluctant to admit.

Yeah some Star Wars ones out there are pretty insane. Grave new world.

The company that’s making 26 episodes of animated Dr Who for 2027 and another 26 for 2028 won two Emmys in 2021 and an Annie in 2020.

― uploading this content requires perseveration (sic), Saturday, June 13, 2026 12:55 PM (one hour ago)

oh that's good to hear! i don't necessarily keep up on on this stuff, occasionally the BBC licenses the brand to people who know what to do with it :) if it's anywhere in the same league as "lower decks" i'll be quite happy!

---

mark my words, within a few years they are going to officially embrace using AI for those missing episodes. people are already doing it on youtube to surprisingly good effect, I am reluctant to admit.

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, June 13, 2026 1:18 PM (one hour ago)

oh, i can absolutely believe it. i gave up on buying the blu-ray sets when they started doing AI bullshit on them. i'm not, though, actually opposed to the idea of "AI recons", though i could be convinced they're a terrible idea.

i'm not opposed to ai in principle. my objection is that it's being used in basically stupid and fraudulent ways. you'd get better _results_, for instance, if it didn't just blindly hoover up anything it sees. of course maybe it's _not_ anymore, and that's kind of scarier? because there's no transparency when it comes to what the data set is. mainly my concern is that of perpetuating various forms of bigotry, but, like, there's nothing actually _unique_ about that (glances in the direction of "the celestial toymaker"). and of course i am _very_ unhappy about the absolutely wholesale destruction of, like, incalculable future lives in the blind, vain pursuit of this stuff.

that said it's possible that i might enjoy watching an AI recon more than most of the animations or other attempts at recons that have been made thus far. "doctor who recon" is actually pretty near the top of my list of "things could actually functionally work".

counterpoint (spoiled for TMI): that said, for all its advancements, i can't get off to AI gish nearly as well as I can get off to work created by humans. this isn't a strictly relevant concern when it comes to missing doctor who episodes, mind you, though i'm not at all condemning anybody who has a fondness for rubber cyberman suits. doctor who has just never really interested me in that way.

nah it's more that... no matter how technically competent something produced by an AI might be, there's something missing, something i can't quite put my finger on. maybe i'm imagining it. i don't think i am. it's not about it being made by AI itself, don't get me wrong. i've seen plenty of human art that feels soulless and empty and mediocre in the same way!

the thing i keep coming back to, though, is that the missing episodes, on the whole, just _aren't that good_. i obsess about them far more than i can rationally justify. it's infuriating. i heard years ago that "the year of the sex olympics" contains chromadot information but has it been restored to colour? i don't know, maybe it has. i don't keep up with these things.

the missing episodes, on the whole, just _aren't that good_

we literally don’t know, because what elevates nearly all Dr Who from “there” to “fun” are the decisions made by the human actors, directors and designers. Marco Polo is probably compelling bcz it’s directed by Waris Hussein and has the early cast finding their chemistry, in great costumes. Plagiarism robots are never going to “reconstruct” that. When the only existing episode of Enemy Of The World was filmed almost entirely in a corridor bcz they couldn’t afford a jail set, there was no way of knowing how sicko mode Barry Letts went on every other episode (that shot where Jamie walks out of a back-projection filmed two months earlier!), or how distinct Troughton’s performance was in the dual role outside of the accent.

For the most part, if a story is missing and the original writer did the novelisation, that’s going to be way better than any type of recon. (click post, look up whether this is true)

Marco Polo - Lucarotti did the novel but I got bored as a child
Reign Of Terror - novel is not by Spooner but is by Ian Marter so prob not bad
Doctor Who And The Crusaders - Whitaker did the novel so is almost certainly great. Dr Who In An Exciting Adventure With The Daleks >>> The Tribe Of Gum and Serial B
Galaxy 4 - I watched the one recovered episode at its first public screening, that's enough
Mission To The Unknown - the complete remake by some uni students about ten years ago was fun
Myth Makers - Cotton did the novel, total megabanger
The Massacre - definite bummer not to have Hartnell's dual performance but Lucarotti did the novel and it's OK
The Savages - Black did the novel but idk iirc this is boring? same for Macra Terror
Faceless Ones - the two existing eps are pretty good but I bet it suffers in being expanded from 4 to 6 eps. blanket no thanks on any 80s novelisations by Dicks or John Peel ftr.
Evil Of The Daleks - absolute tragedy that it's missing (and that Whitaker didn't do the novelisation) but if we could only get one more episode back I'd rather have Trout and Jamie running around London going antiquing now that they can finally have a first date, than any Dalek stuff
and bummer that Wheel In Space is missing but it wasn't Whitaker's own plot so nbd that he didn't do a base-under-siege novel.

you're right that the rest of the missing S5 stories and Space Pirates (all six-part bases under siege! jfc) are prob not "good" BUT any footage of the Doctor and Jamie being #gaymarriedinspace is sure to be delightful.

For the most part, if a story is missing and the original writer did the novelisation, that’s going to be way better than any type of recon. (click post, look up whether this is true)

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i mean i'd almost say apples and oranges. "the massacre", for instance... i've read James Cooray Smith's Black Archive on the story... for whatever reason i'm kinda particularly fixated on this story. lucarotti's "novelisation" is fantastic - i love it dearly. it's also really valuable because it's, cooray smith argues persuasively, a novelization of his initial version of the script, before tosh and/or wiles (neither of whom, uh, i have a very strong opinion of) made some weird arbitrary changes to it. like you say, the show depends a _great deal_ on "the decisions made by the human actors, directors and designers". one of the reasons "the massacre" interests me is because it was directed by paddy russell. a 1966 story helmed by the director who went on to direct "invasion of the dinosaurs", "pyramids of mars", and "horror of fang rock"? my god, yes, i would absolutely love to see it.

and, like, at some point i accepted that this is not an episode i am ever going to see in its original form. of course anything could happen. someone could turn up some cache in barbados or whatever. it's probably not gonna happen at this point. and given the almost complete absence of any visual reference material from the story... no, it's not remotely possible to "reconstruct" russell's work on "the massacre". that's one of the things i like about "the celestial toymaker" animation - it _doesn't_ attempt to faithfully present the story as shown on TV. it's not just the character models - watching "the final test" animation side by side with the actual episode makes the differences pretty clear. there are human artistic choices being made, ones that are consciously distinct from the choices made by bill sellars in "the final test". of course a lot of sellars' choices were constrained by the conditions the show was made under.

neither humans nor ai can truly reproduce the decisions made by the actors and directors. i agree with you that no possible animation or reconstruction could be as delightful as episode 2 of "the underwater menace" or pretty much all of "enemy of the world". and i'd still kill for a whitaker novelization of "enemy", or, most of all, "the ambassadors of death", because it would be _markedly_ different from what we saw on air!

if an episode is "missing", well, none of them are "missing" in the way that episodes of (bog-standard example here) "united!" is. it doesn't matter how much i know what happens in "the nightmare begins", that i've seen the blue peter clip from "devil's planet", that i've heard the audio of it, that i've seen "day of armageddon". nothing is quite the same as actually _watching_ "the nightmare begins" and "devil's planet". until i saw those episodes, i couldn't properly say "well, 'devil's planet' isn't a very good episode". because something in the acting or the directing could have made it a delight to watch in the same way that "the underwater menace" episode 2 was (for me, at least).

a "missing episode" is something like a "lost album" - the mystique and joy of it is that its _incompleteness_ allows people who weren't involved in its original production to engage with it creatively. borrowing a model of the wooden horse to shoot some new poor-quality footage with it is a creative act! photo-collaging, compositing, creative acts!

whether an "AI recon" succeeds or fails, i'd argue, isn't a matter of "AI" itself but of the creative decisions being made by the people using it. even terrible AI porn _does_ involve human creativity, i'd argue. this star wars stuff... i haven't seen it, but if it's any good at all it's because of the time and effort and, like, _vision_ of the people involved in making it.

there are _so many_ attempted "fan edits" of star wars movies, particularly the prequels. so many ways people have attempted to make those movies _good_. well i don't think it's possible. the movies just fundamentally aren't good. you might as well make an entirely different movie. but god, i love seeing people try. the dialogue of star wars is terrible? let's dub the whole thing in japanese, then translate the japanese lines we wrote _back_ into much _better_ english dialogue in subtitles! i'm staggered by the inventiveness of it, staggered by the effort they put in the service of a movie which is, at the end of the day, simply not very good.

of course i'd love to see all the episodes of "the massacre", or "the power of the daleks", or "the highlanders" or "fury from the deep" (god, i would love to see what hugh david's work as a Who director looked like!). and i also gravitate, still, to these stories because they do offer possibility, because they don't exist in a "definitive" form. because people aren't as likely to do an animated "reconstruction" of, i don't know, "planet of evil". do i think the duff CGI added in for the DVD releases improves on any of the stories it's used in? not really. that doesn't mean i don't think people shouldn't continue to (TRIPLE NEGATIVE!!!!) fuck with the source texts in interesting ways, using whatever tools they have available.

Myth Makers - Cotton did the novel, total megabanger

that's the thing, i mean, "the gunfighters" is hilarious but quite honestly the best thing about it is cotton's novel, his novelizations are just so peak and the broadcast episodes just did _not_ do his writing justice

but of course none of us gets to choose what gets recovered and what doesn't!

if it's anywhere in the same league as "lower decks" i'll be quite happy!

Just to temper some expectations here - it’s being made for CBeebies, so the target audience is under-5s. It might still be great, most stuff on CBeebies is (which is why I’m still so defensive of the license fee, if that money goes away there’ll never be pre-school tv as good ever again) but it’s unlikely to be comparable to Lower Decks.

oh gotcha

well i did say i'd like to see a younger generation of creators, so

in other news:

https://bsky.app/profile/shivs.kindgirls.online/post/3mob4uz4fs22e

Doctor Who fans free to go back to clubbing and shagging

WITH no new Doctor Who on the horizon, its most loyal fans are free to resume their notoriously hedonistic lifestyles.

The BBC's decision to put the show on hold means its fanbase can return to the all-night raves and sex parties they enjoyed before they got sidetracked by the 2005 revival.

not sure where they got the impression i ever gave up on all-night sex parties

i mean they didn't make _that_ many episodes a year