Sight and Sound 2022 Round 8: 181-200

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Here we go again.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
DOUBLE INDEMNITY (Billy Wilder; 1944) 7
L’ARGENT (Robert Bresson; 1983) 6
RAN (Kurosawa Akira; 1985) 5
PARIS, TEXAS (Wim Wenders; 1984) 5
THE LIFE AND DEATH OF COL. BLIMP (Powell & Pressburger; 1943) 5
OUT 1 (Jacques Rivette; 1971) 4
THE YOUNG GIRLS OF ROCHEFORT (Jacques Demy; 1967) 4
I KNOW WHERE I’M GOING! (Powell & Pressburger; 1945) 3
AN AUTUMN AFTERNOON (Ozu Yasujirō ; 1962) 3
UNDER THE SKIN (Jonathan Glazer; 2013) 3
MAGNOLIA (Paul Thomas Anderson; 1999) 2
HEAT (Michael Mann; 1995) 2
PYAASA (Guru Dutt; 1957) 1
THE RIVER (Jean Renoir; 1951) 1
GREED (Erich von Stroheim; 1924) 1
LOVE STREAMS (John Cassavetes; 1984) 1
WINGS OF DESIRE (Wim Wenders; 1987) 0
THE BIRDS (Alfred Hitchcock; 1963) 0
PAISÀ (Roberto Rossellini; 1946) 0
NOSFERATU (F.W. Murnau; 1922) 0


fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:22 (one year ago) link

The first three, alphabetically, are also probably the best three.

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:24 (one year ago) link

magnolia was my favorite movie in college and even i am like “what is that doing here.” otherwise this is a list of very fine films

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:28 (one year ago) link

An Autumn Afternoon is my fave here by miles

calzino, Monday, 12 June 2023 15:29 (one year ago) link

I haven't watched Pyaasa and dont' remember Under the Skin enough to firm up a judgment, but, yeah, a fine list, no ringers. I may vote for the Bresson, to which my film students responded with alacrity last semester.

The River is one of those films where the actors and dialogue are irrelevant to the spell its rhythms cast.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:32 (one year ago) link

Think I'll go with Blimp. Heat and Autumn Afternoon rule too tho.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 June 2023 15:34 (one year ago) link

I've burnt out Col Blimp from too many rewatches and will have to watch L'Argent again because I did see it and recall the plot but can barely remember the movie!

calzino, Monday, 12 June 2023 15:36 (one year ago) link

The question came up in class: "Is the old woman the guy's lover?" They hadn't seen that kind of relationship before.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:37 (one year ago) link

Damn, my two favourite P&Ps right next to each other.

jmm, Monday, 12 June 2023 15:42 (one year ago) link

Top 5:
L’ARGENT (Robert Bresson; 1983)
AN AUTUMN AFTERNOON (Ozu Yasujirō ; 1962)
THE BIRDS (Alfred Hitchcock; 1963)
I KNOW WHERE I’M GOING! (Powell & Pressburger; 1945)
LOVE STREAMS (John Cassavetes; 1984)

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:44 (one year ago) link

I don't know what people think of late Kurosawa on here but I love Ran and Kagemusha.

calzino, Monday, 12 June 2023 15:45 (one year ago) link

I really want to throw Under the Skin a vote even though I know it's not the best of the list, but it really floored me (2x).

The Terroir of Tiny Town (WmC), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:46 (one year ago) link

Ran is wonderful -- my intro.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 June 2023 15:49 (one year ago) link

Roger Livesey in these two Archers films is probably my favourite actor in the world (not that I've seen a ton of his others). Just the warmest and most satisfying presence.

jmm, Monday, 12 June 2023 16:03 (one year ago) link

My faves:

THE BIRDS (Alfred Hitchcock; 1963)
DOUBLE INDEMNITY (Billy Wilder; 1944)
LOVE STREAMS (John Cassavetes; 1984)
NOSFERATU (F.W. Murnau; 1922)
WINGS OF DESIRE (Wim Wenders; 1987)

niall horanburger (cryptosicko), Monday, 12 June 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link

xp otm

bulb after bulb, Monday, 12 June 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link

Double Indemnity easily. I like Magnolia and Paris, Texas, and I hope I get to see the full Out 1 for a second time in a theatre before I check out.

clemenza, Monday, 12 June 2023 18:49 (one year ago) link

Throwing a vote Greed's way over Blimp; kicking myself for missing a chance to see a screening of The Young Girls of Rochefort recently, and still need to see Pyaasa.

etc, Monday, 12 June 2023 23:58 (one year ago) link

Ferocious, ain’t I?

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 00:10 (one year ago) link

Rochefort >>>>> Cherbourg

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 00:11 (one year ago) link

IKWIG is my personal favorite Powell/Pressburger even if it’s arguably not their greatest, so that. I love pretty much every character and line of dialogue.

Pamela Brown's entrance — toting a shotgun, surrounded by hounds — is such a classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzTVir52WKg

HEAT (Michael Mann; 1995)

I really never cared to see this.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 07:02 (one year ago) link

Nor L'argent. Was kinda done with Bresson.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 07:03 (one year ago) link

saw HEAT in the cinema on release and it made me so angry i've never wanted to reassess whether it's as terrible as i thought at the time

two grills one tap (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 07:08 (one year ago) link

imagine being done with Bresson :(

aside from that L'Argent is my favourite of his and I'll probably vote for it here but Under the Skin, The Birds, An Autumn Afternoon, The River and the two Powell & Pressburgers are all personal favourites

or something, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 07:23 (one year ago) link

I like Bresson well enough but I do check out of French catholics after a while.

The idea of AL PACINO and ROBERT DE NIRO in the SAME SCENE just made me pissy.

Probably going for Love Streams. Much love for the P&Ps and Dutt

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 08:37 (one year ago) link

you might get slightly less pissy watching The Irishman because it's good. At this point I don't think nobody gaf about these two geriatrics being in the same movie!

calzino, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 08:52 (one year ago) link

Yes I will def get round to the Irishman.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 08:55 (one year ago) link

Out 1, obviously.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 09:17 (one year ago) link

I would suggest calz and xyzz check out Michael mann's early politically radical shorts about May '68 but alas they're under lock and key, the mann doesn't want us to see them.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 09:47 (one year ago) link

I was just checking his wiki to see if that mentioned them (it didn't) and noticed that he had Avatar on his S+S ballot! I presume he is embarrassed about his radical years and doesn't want to be reminded of them.

calzino, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 10:12 (one year ago) link

possibly just embarassed by his lack of technical skill at the time, he strikes me as the kind of guy who would not view youthful mistakes with a forgiving eye. perhaps we'll find out when he dies, tho I'm still waiting to see The Day The Clown Cried!

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 10:16 (one year ago) link

He spent seven years in the United Kingdom going to film school and then working on commercials along with contemporaries Alan Parker, Ridley Scott and Adrian Lyne. In 1968, footage he shot of the Paris student revolt for a documentary, Insurrection, aired on NBC's First Tuesday news program and he developed his '68 experiences into the short film Jaunpuri which won the Jury Prize at Cannes in 1970.

oh it does mention them

calzino, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 10:18 (one year ago) link

last poll was I've only seen two of these so I shouldn't vote, this one is I've seen 11 of these so I can't vote

rob, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 16:46 (one year ago) link

So many good films in this group - Nosferatu, Ran, Double Indemnity, L’Argent, Greed, The River. Paisan was okay, but not my favorite Rossellini. On recent Wenders rewatches, I thought Paris, Texas was kind of disappointing, I liked Wings of Desire much better. I enjoyed I Know Where I’m Going! more than Colonel Blimp, although both were pretty great.

I would be inclined to vote for An Autumn Afternoon or The Birds, which I think are among their directors’ most accomplished and memorable movies, but Under the Skin felt like a radical film to me and I vividly remember many of the scenes in it as well as the music, so I’m voting for it

Dan S, Wednesday, 14 June 2023 00:51 (one year ago) link

Haven't seen Heat, Ran, Pyaasa or Love Streams. I find international-era Wenders self-important and the Archers mostly quaint. I liked The Young Girls of Rochefort more than I expected, but got very little out of The River, I found the visuals ugly.

I'd absolutely vote for the four-hour Out Out: Spectre. The long version (noli me tangere) is basically an exploded movie with all the seams revealed, and while I'm glad to have seen it I regard it more as a cerebral exercise than a finished work (which is at least partly the point). Second place would probably be L'argent.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:21 (one year ago) link

How do you define a self-important film? Just curious.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link

We all … clearly have different desires re movies.

But that’s life, and that’s as it should be.

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:31 (one year ago) link

Good answer.

Although still shaking my head at "quaint."

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:36 (one year ago) link

Thanks I hugely disagree with that word too but maybe I just think quaint isn't an issue

P&P's use of artifice never undercuts the emotional realness of their work for me

two grills one tap (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:54 (one year ago) link

How do you define a self-important film? Just curious.

What I love about the Wenders films up to Im Lauf der Zeit is their "just-there"ness. The characters do this and that, and go here and there without extra significance or melodrama being added on the plot level. By the 80s, there's an aura of Making a Statement and Dealing With Issues (which got a whole lot worse by the time of End of Violence) which wears me down by the end.

We all … clearly have different desires re movies.

I seem to be the only viewer on ILX who goes to movies to stop crying.

P&P's use of artifice never undercuts the emotional realness of their work for me

They're enjoyable and well-crafted. I like Black Narcissus best because there's a little more grit and maybe camp in the mix. I suspect I have less patience than many for the "tally-ho, pip-pip, stiff upper lip" Britishisms.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 June 2023 21:37 (one year ago) link

personally i don't get alienated by art from an era that doesn't reference the language of the last 10 minutes but hey

two grills one tap (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 June 2023 22:05 (one year ago) link

What I love about the Wenders films up to Im Lauf der Zeit is their "just-there"ness. The characters do this and that, and go here and there without extra significance or melodrama being added on the plot level.

― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, June 15, 2023

Of the 5 feature films he made prior to Im Lauf der Zeit I've only seen The Scarlet Letter, which was interesting as a period piece translating an American story into German, but it was not very good

His new film your textPerfect Days, which won Koji Yakusho the best actor prize at Cannes this year, sounds very "just there", and I'm looking forward to watching it!

Dan S, Thursday, 15 June 2023 22:13 (one year ago) link

Ha, NV otm.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 22:14 (one year ago) link

the language of the last 10 minutes

It's not the language, it's the attitude and perspective. The stultifying conventions of the society.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:21 (one year ago) link

Um…

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:22 (one year ago) link

Let me clear my throat!

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:22 (one year ago) link

I didn't vote for Out: One because it's "in" in 2023!

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:22 (one year ago) link

With all due respect, I think you may be missing something.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:23 (one year ago) link

To put it quite bluntly, isn’t there a certain incompatibility between the terms “cinema” and “Britain.”

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:31 (one year ago) link

What I’m trying to get at—and I’m not sure I’m right about this and it’s hard to define just what it is—is that there’s something about England that’s anticinematic.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 June 2023 23:33 (one year ago) link

Sight & Sound had been trying to figure this out for decades now

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Friday, 16 June 2023 01:03 (one year ago) link

Lol!

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 01:35 (one year ago) link

The British cinema is as dead as before. Perhaps it was never alive.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 07:02 (one year ago) link

And, before I sign off:
English films have always been a sad joke.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 07:03 (one year ago) link

Truffaut's "a certain incompatibility between the terms 'cinema' and 'Britain'" is abt on a par with him walking out on World of Apu because “I don't want to see a movie of peasants eating with their hands" - ie ignorant toss.

Admittedly, it was only after reading Raymond Durgnat's Mirror for England that I seriously because interested in British cinema. And yes,, interest in one's home national cinema is always partly parochial, or quaint if you like. It's fascinating to see representations of vanished social and family life, to see landscapes and high streets and shops and holiday camps and old cars and clothes. And British popular cinema, especially the horror film, can be as good as it gets.

Ward Fowler, Friday, 16 June 2023 09:15 (one year ago) link

I really like to read that Durgnat.

---

it's the attitude and perspective. The stultifying conventions of the society.

― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 June 2023 bookmarkflaglink

If I'm not learning about a country through its cinema after a while -- just things that might be particular to a time and environment, some of which end up as 'conventions' -- that would be strange. No one complains about how Ozu portrays a woman's path through Japanese society in the 40s and 50s.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 16 June 2023 10:39 (one year ago) link

See pyaasa you guys!

Grandall Flange (wins), Friday, 16 June 2023 10:44 (one year ago) link

Pyaasa is great.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 11:15 (one year ago) link

I thought it was Pather Panchali Truffaut walked out on, and maybe by the time Apu had made it to big city he was more interested, or at least kept his own counsel.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 11:21 (one year ago) link

As far as I know he never saw or commented on Pyaasa, although another Frenchman was responsible for a renewed interest in Guru Dutt.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 11:23 (one year ago) link

I suspect I have less patience than many for the "tally-ho, pip-pip, stiff upper lip" Britishisms.

what

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 June 2023 11:32 (one year ago) link

Reminding me of a certain notorious Whitney post.

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 12:18 (one year ago) link

I seem to be the only viewer on ILX who goes to movies to stop crying.

with laughter?

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 June 2023 12:47 (one year ago) link

Was this the thread where we mentioned Donald Fagen and Lou Reed or was it a previous one?

Holly Godarkbloom (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 16 June 2023 13:08 (one year ago) link

Next thing you’ll be complaining about the mugging and overemoting in silent films. How fake!

No one complains about how Ozu portrays a woman's path through Japanese society in the 40s and 50s.

I don't share them, but both of these seem valid reasons for someone to dislike these films.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 17 June 2023 03:04 (one year ago) link

Well, in the sense that every reason to dislike a film is valid because it's your taste, sure. But if you're making a critical argument, I think at least a modicum of trying to meet a film where it's at is called for.

I'm not an expert on this line of thinking but aren't P&P in great part subverters of the quaint englishness described itt, constantly pointing to the deeper, darker passions below in stuff like The Small Back Room, Black Narcissus, etc? Even Blimp I remember as being ambiguous at best about its protagonist's ideology. Pressburger somewhat of an outsider to British society of course.

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 17 June 2023 08:42 (one year ago) link

P&P in great part subverters of the quaint englishness described itt

I wouldn't say they're *always* subverting it, but it's quite often the direct subject matter of the films, approached and dramatized in a plurality of ways and often contrasted with other supposedly less repressed cultures (India, America, France, Scotland). That's definitely true for the two films in this poll, one of which is, pretty importantly, not set in Britain! And yes, Pressburger's immigrant status is significant.

rob, Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:10 (one year ago) link

I've said it before but there is some strange stuff going on in A Canterbury Tale that plays on blood and soil and is unexpected in a nominal "propaganda" movie

two grills one tap (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:14 (one year ago) link

absolutely. Thomas Colpeper is one of their most quaint english characters and he's so repressed he attacks women by very unsubtly throwing sticky glue on them

rob, Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:23 (one year ago) link

repent, Halfway!

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:31 (one year ago) link

lol

and tbf I would never expect P&P to be universally appealing

rob, Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:38 (one year ago) link

Even Blimp I remember as being ambiguous at best about its protagonist's ideology. Pressburger somewhat of an outsider to British society of course.

― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 17 June 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Blimp could've been straight up propaganda. Incredible what they chose to give us instead.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:38 (one year ago) link

The story goes that Churchill hated them which is obviously proof of greatness

two grills one tap (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:45 (one year ago) link

Seems to me that it's doing at least three things at the same time: interrogating British narratives of national honour, while also positioning Nazism as a force that absolutely has to be defeated, while also placing hope ultimately in the friendship and love between Clive and Theo.

jmm, Saturday, 17 June 2023 14:55 (one year ago) link

Figures that P&P are one (two) of the only British filmmakers I unreservedly revere

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Saturday, 17 June 2023 17:04 (one year ago) link

I give these too long of leads

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Thursday, 29 June 2023 15:28 (one year ago) link

The idea of AL PACINO and ROBERT DE NIRO in the SAME SCENE just made me pissy.

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, June 13, 2023

The restaurant meeting in Heat between Pacino and De Niro was the pivotal moment in that film

Dan S, Thursday, 29 June 2023 23:31 (one year ago) link

The most amazing scene in The Birds was the gas station fire / phone booth scene, filmed from many different points of view, including that of the viewer as predator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBjX3HRd9uc

Dan S, Thursday, 29 June 2023 23:32 (one year ago) link

Very recently watched Hitchcock/Truffaut and Hitch gave a very good explanation of why he chose to shoot it that way. He said something to the effect that if he had shot it at ground level he would have had to get into too much boring detail and eat up screen time.

Looking For Mr. Goodreads (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 29 June 2023 23:36 (one year ago) link

F.T.  The scene of the fire in the gasoline station is really thrilling. That unexpected high shot gives the impression the whole thing’s being shown from the viewpoint of the gulls.

A.H.  I did that high shot for three reasons. The first was intended to show the beginning of the gulls’ descent on the town. The second was to show the exact topography of Bodega Bay, with the town, the sea, the coast, and the gas station on fire, in one single image. The third reason is that I didn’t want to waste a lot of footage on showing the elaborate operation of the firemen extinguishing the fire. You can do a lot of things very quickly by getting away from something.

Looking For Mr. Goodreads (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 29 June 2023 23:40 (one year ago) link

I'm not an expert on this line of thinking but aren't P&P in great part subverters of the quaint englishness described itt, constantly pointing to the deeper, darker passions below in stuff like The Small Back Room, Black Narcissus, etc?

I haven't seen the former, and the latter is my favourite of their films for exactly this reason.

See pyaasa you guys!

I got the DVD out of the library, but the distributor has burned their colour logo into the upper left hand side of every shot. Instant reject.

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 2 July 2023 17:54 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Wednesday, 5 July 2023 00:01 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Thursday, 6 July 2023 00:01 (one year ago) link

I just want to say, these polls have motivated me to watch 27 of these films for the first time!

Cherish, Thursday, 6 July 2023 00:54 (one year ago) link

I got the DVD out of the library, but the distributor has burned their colour logo into the upper left hand side of every shot. Instant reject.

Would you do the same if you knew you'd never see it otherwise? I'm just curious.

Cherish, Thursday, 6 July 2023 00:55 (one year ago) link

Yes, there are too many films I want to see to watch one that some idiot has ruined.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 6 July 2023 01:53 (one year ago) link

I just want to say, these polls have motivated me to watch 27 of these films for the first time!

― Cherish, Thursday, 6 July 2023 bookmarkflaglink

I've been able to catch a few, but did slow down after a while. Hope to see most of the top 250 by the end of the year.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 8 July 2023 13:43 (one year ago) link

Yes, there are too many films I want to see to watch one that some idiot has ruined.

I guess I'm always worried I'll miss out on a movie I'd treasure, maybe as one of my favorites. If I've made the effort to look for it, it's due to its reputation or a recommendation. It's not just a random pick.

Cherish, Sunday, 9 July 2023 01:50 (one year ago) link

How could a black and white film with a bright coloured watermark in every shot become anybody’s favourite anything?

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 9 July 2023 14:36 (one year ago) link

Haha. Definitely some of those (or the equivalent) in my favorites list.

Cherish, Monday, 10 July 2023 03:31 (one year ago) link

eleven months pass...

GREED (Erich von Stroheim; 1924)

As silly as "lottery winners go mad and insane" its pretty touching how the relationship falls to pieces, in the way its played.

Amazing to think there were hours more of this. Two hours of 'money corrodes the soul' is enough.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 4 July 2024 22:24 (two weeks ago) link

Was thinking about climate change when watching those final scenes in Death Valley

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 7 July 2024 10:21 (one week ago) link

L’ARGENT (Robert Bresson; 1983)

Bresson! In colour!!

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 13 July 2024 18:29 (six days ago) link

Lot of RED in Lancelot Du Lac, check it out.

Ward Fowler, Saturday, 13 July 2024 18:38 (six days ago) link

L'argent at first baffled my students three weeks ago, then they were perplexed in the best way.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 July 2024 18:42 (six days ago) link

Lot of RED in Lancelot Du Lac, check it out.

― Ward Fowler, Saturday, 13 July 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Will do

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 13 July 2024 20:17 (six days ago) link

THE RIVER (Jean Renoir; 1951)

Follow it up with my first time watching a Renoir film in color. This was great though its very much of its time (and there are wins and losses to that)

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 13 July 2024 20:19 (six days ago) link

The snake sequence!

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 July 2024 20:20 (six days ago) link


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