Sight and Sound 2022 Top 20

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Torn between Vertigo and Seven Samurai...

Poll Results

OptionVotes
2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968) 14
La Règle du jeu (Jean Renoir, 1939) 11
Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman, 1975) 9
Persona (Ingmar Bergman, 1966) 9
Seven Samurai (Akira Kurosawa, 1954)  9
Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941) 7
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001) 6
Tokyo Story (Yasujiro Ozu, 1953) 5
Singin’ in the Rain (Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly, 1951) 5
Beau travail (Claire Denis, 1998) 5
Man with a Movie Camera (Dziga Vertov,1929) 4
The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972) 4
Cléo from 5 to 7 (Agnès Varda, 1962) 3
Close-Up (Abbas Kiarostami, 1989) 3
Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958) 2
The Searchers (John Ford, 1956)  2
In the Mood for Love (Wong Kar-wai, 2001) 2
Meshes of the Afternoon (Maya Deren and Alexander Hammid, 1943) 1
Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979) 1
Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (F.W. Murnau, 1927) 0


ryan, Saturday, 7 January 2023 04:57 (four weeks ago) link

I remember thinking when the last list came out that Vertigo was kind of an odd choice for "greatest movie ever made" since it's so wild and unconstrained for a "masterpiece," so uncomfortably exhibitionist. I'd love to know what a typical moviegoer thought while walking out of that one in 1958. Jeanne Dielman, funnily enough, seems like a safer choice in many respects.

ryan, Saturday, 7 January 2023 05:05 (four weeks ago) link

There isn't a movie in this 20 that I outright dislike (though I still haven't and probably never will see Seven Samurai)

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 05:29 (four weeks ago) link

Top 5:

Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman, 1975)
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001)
Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (F.W. Murnau, 1927)
La Règle du jeu (Jean Renoir, 1939)
Close-Up (Abbas Kiarostami, 1989)

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 05:31 (four weeks ago) link

Boring antiquated vote for The Godfather. I think I've seen all except for Meshes of the Afternoon (though a couple go so far back I essentially haven't seen them either).

clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 15:59 (four weeks ago) link

Meshes of the Afternoon is only like 15 mins long and you can see it on YouTube, HIGHLY recommend.

This is a fairly impossible poll. Guess I'll go with Renoir?

I'm between Renoir, Murnau, Ozu, and Akerman. It's down to what I'd watch right now.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:13 (four weeks ago) link

Renoir, followed by Ozu or Kurosawa

jmm, Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:22 (four weeks ago) link

Seven Samurai, dare I say, drags a little. It bores me slightly like Ozu, Dielman, Beau Travail, etc. don't.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:25 (four weeks ago) link

Citizen Kane is like the Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles of movies

Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:27 (four weeks ago) link

hahaha.

criterion channel had a fun meshes/mulholland dr double feature a while ago, that’s my pick. but these are some really good movies

k3vin k., Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:31 (four weeks ago) link

I've seen maybe half of these, of the ones I've seen I would still vote for Kane.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:36 (four weeks ago) link

Must I?

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:43 (four weeks ago) link

I also have a Seven Samurai problem, but maybe I should just rewatch.

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:44 (four weeks ago) link

It’s not untrue that parts of it drag…but then there are all the good parts!

ryan, Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:55 (four weeks ago) link

It’s so famous and the first time I saw it was under some weird circumstances that I am only now recalling- a bunch of clever high school students mocking the translated dialogue- so I got off to a bad start somehow I’ve never found a way in, although this hasn’t been a problem with lots of other films. But now that I think of it the initial problem in those cases was internal and not external. I like a lot of other Kurosawas better, since I went in knowing less.

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:15 (four weeks ago) link

I saw High and Low last month for the third time, a little stoned: exquisitely edited and paced. There are a half dozen Kurosawa I might replace SS with.

I don't fuck with the final battle, though.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:56 (four weeks ago) link

I love Seven Samurai but I agree it's a bit of a trek. I'd take Yojimbo and Ran over it, at a minimum. But I get why it's the Classic.

I actually like or love most other Kurosawas I’ve seen, and rate Yojimbo, Ran, Rashoman and especially High and Low very highly, so it’s not a director problem

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:21 (four weeks ago) link

What's stopping you from watching it?

jmm, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:22 (four weeks ago) link

It's a big time investment to first watch The One Samurai, The Two Samurai...

Persona and Meshes are the ones on this list that speak to me most strongly, and I voted for the former. Most of the others aren't even my favourites by those directors (though Apocalypse Now and In the Mood for Love, and maybe Beau Travail are). Close-Up in fact I would rank ninth or tenth on the list of ten Kiarostami I have seen, I don't get the appeal.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:34 (four weeks ago) link

I'd rank Shame over Persona, but, like Eric said, I get why the latter's here.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:37 (four weeks ago) link

I might too, but Passion of Anna is my Bergman of choice.

Best parts of Seven Samurai: the close-ups of the scroll as the samurai keep a running count of the bandits they have killed
Worst parts: Mifune sputtering and gesticulating

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:41 (four weeks ago) link

If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you. I don't mean that disparagingly: it's like dealing with the hijinks in the third act of The Rules of the Game.

I was proud of my students last semester who chose Rashomon for a paper topic; most of them realized he was working in a stylized universe of his own.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:48 (four weeks ago) link

2001 is a film that I feel like I still haven't seen properly, and it might be too late at this point. I feel like I'd need to forget everything about it.

jmm, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:55 (four weeks ago) link

These suck:

2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001)
Man with a Movie Camera (Dziga Vertov,1929)

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:07 (four weeks ago) link

Voted Dielman but resigned to 2001 winning.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:08 (four weeks ago) link

There isn't a movie in this 20 that I outright dislike (though I still haven't and probably never will see Seven Samurai)

― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Why not?

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:09 (four weeks ago) link

Lol @ ppl denigrating Seven Samurai like Apocalypse Now isn't in this poll!

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:12 (four weeks ago) link

lol

He might think they're OK to great in their own ways.

2001's the only one I'm get-behind-me-Satan about.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:14 (four weeks ago) link

I've seen all but Close-Up, which I will watch at some point despite being underwhelmed by almost every Kiarostami I've seen. I think he's not for me.

Of the rest, a handful are legit personal faves — Regle du Jeu, Mullholland Drive, Jeanne Dielman (which I can say now that I've finally seen it), Singin' in the Rain, Persona, In the Mood for Love (though not my favorite Wong), Meshes, Tokyo Story. The rest I like or admire to varying degrees, I don't begrudge them their canonicity. Although I haven't seen Man With a Movie Camera since a film studies class in college and have never been tempted to revisit it, so I don't really know how I feel about it. But I know it's IMPORTANT.

To the question of why I’ve never seen Seven Samurai, the answer is I don’t want to

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:36 (four weeks ago) link

It's a big time investment to first watch _The One Samurai_, _The Two Samurai_...

Hey, don’t make jokes, one of James Cagney’s most iconic performances was in Samurai One, Two, Three.

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:38 (four weeks ago) link

Worst parts: Mifune sputtering and gesticulating

nonsense

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:39 (four weeks ago) link

In case anyone was curious to see how this shook out in the all-time ballot poll: ILX All-Time Film and Morbsies Poll: RESULTS Thread for ILX's Favorite Movies, Films, Cinema, Flicks & Moving Pictures

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:41 (four weeks ago) link

I find in Seven Samurai the same kind of cinematic exuberance that’s in Citizen Kane—it’s just so expressive and fun. And yes the final battle is wonderful.

ryan, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:42 (four weeks ago) link

i quote/paraphrase man with a movie camera all the time lol, to absolutely no use or recognition: [X] WITHOUT INTERTITLES. [X] WITHOUT A SCENARIO. [X]... WITHOUT THE AID OF THEATER. i do find it v moving tbh, tho can understand distaste for its state-sponsored promethian brassiness.

my lynch opinions are not v useful at this point but m-dr is prob my least fave of his; i love p much everything in it, somewhere else.

voted renoir.

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:43 (four weeks ago) link

At the very least I like all of these, and love most of them. I always treat these polls as "favorite" rather than "best," so voted Lynch.

The Terroir of Tiny Town (WmC), Saturday, 7 January 2023 19:57 (four weeks ago) link

To the question of why I’ve never seen Seven Samurai, the answer is I don’t want to

― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Weird...but ok...

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 January 2023 20:00 (four weeks ago) link

At the very least I like all of these, and love most of them. I always treat these polls as "favorite" rather than "best," so voted Lynch.

otm

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 20:04 (four weeks ago) link

I'm between Renoir, Murnau, Ozu, and Akerman. It's down to what I'd watch right now.


Honestly, how often would it be the Akerman film?

The trajectory from Vertigo to Jeanne Dielman makes a lot of sense. I admire them both, but I do kinda want to roll my eyes out of my skull that coldly meta/post/anti Film stuff gets Best Film of All Time honors. But hey, people’s* choice.

I’d pick something dumb and obvious like 2001 or CK cuz I like sight and sound.

circa1916, Saturday, 7 January 2023 21:23 (four weeks ago) link

Also love Lynch forever, but I still don’t grasp the anointment of MD above all. It’s about Hollywood. I’ll tuck that into my prior “films about film” complaint. Entirely too interesting mode for a certain sect.

circa1916, Saturday, 7 January 2023 21:47 (four weeks ago) link

Vertigo is quite far from being my favorite Hitch joint.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:17 (four weeks ago) link

I’m with Morbs in rating Vertigo at or near the top, maybe just behind Rear Window and Notorious

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 23:10 (four weeks ago) link

Kane might be the only one here I don’t regard as being one if its director’s best, along with Apocalypse

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Saturday, 7 January 2023 23:11 (four weeks ago) link

I’m with Morbs in rating _Vertigo_ at or near the top, maybe just behind _Rear Window_ and _Notorious_

That is reasonable enough.

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 January 2023 23:13 (four weeks ago) link

If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you.

He's a great actor who's so much more tolerable when he keeps the lid on, like in High and Low and The Bad Sleep Well.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 7 January 2023 23:39 (four weeks ago) link

those are two of his best roles, but I also like the more unrestrained performances in the samurai/ronin films (Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Sanjuro)

Dan S, Sunday, 8 January 2023 00:25 (three weeks ago) link

_If you can't deal with Mifune's performance style, Kurosawa will never be for you._


He's a great actor who's so much more tolerable when he keeps the lid on, like in _High and Low_ and _The Bad Sleep Well_.

Don’t sleep on I Live in Fear!

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 January 2023 00:35 (three weeks ago) link

Didn’t really need to quote, sorry.

Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 January 2023 00:36 (three weeks ago) link

I liked what Ebert said, that Seven Samurai "represents a great divide in his work; most of his earlier films … subscribe to the Japanese virtues of teamwork, fitting in, going along, conforming. All his later films are about misfits, noncomformists and rebels.”

Dan S, Thursday, 19 January 2023 00:47 (two weeks ago) link

it still wouldn't be in my top 10 for this poll, though

Dan S, Thursday, 19 January 2023 00:51 (two weeks ago) link

I have made sure that some of you will be aghast when The Godfather's one vote places it above films you love.

clemenza, Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:09 (two weeks ago) link

lol, that is sure to be the case for In the Mood for Love

Dan S, Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:18 (two weeks ago) link

re In the Mood for Love, “The food culture of 1960s Hong Kong plays a central role throughout the film. The lonely pair continue to run into each other at the dai pai dong, ordering noodles to eat by themselves while their respective spouses “work late.” Mrs. Chan offers to make taro soup for Mr. Chow. When a drunken landlord accidentally traps them together inside Mr. Chow’s bedroom, they pass the time by eating.”

Dan S, Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:19 (two weeks ago) link

I have probably seen seven samurai over a dozen times and I will likely watch it again this year

POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 19 January 2023 03:29 (two weeks ago) link

I liked what Ebert said, that Seven Samurai "represents a great divide in his work; most of his earlier films … subscribe to the Japanese virtues of teamwork, fitting in, going along, conforming. All his later films are about misfits, noncomformists and rebels.”

I don't think that's true at all! Drunken Angel, Stray Dog and One Wonderful Sunday are all about outsiders; Ikiru and No Regrets For Our Youth explicitly go against going along and conforming. The demarcation line I'd trace, for Kurosawa as for most artists of his generation, is the defeat of Japan in WWII.

Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 19 January 2023 10:53 (two weeks ago) link

I love that after all the times I've said I very much enjoy The Godfather you still think I hate it, clem

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, 19 January 2023 11:44 (two weeks ago) link

Ozu does the quiet rebellion thing brilliantly

Kieth Encounter (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 January 2023 13:18 (two weeks ago) link

I have made sure that some of you will be aghast when The Godfather's one vote places it above films you love.

― clemenza, Thursday, 19 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Got to hand this one to you.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 January 2023 13:35 (two weeks ago) link

Not that you hate it, Eric, or even that you don't like it; it was that many people (I didn't even necessarily indicate you...) will hate seeing its one vote place it above films they like much more that won't get a vote.

Anyway, just a joke.

clemenza, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:32 (two weeks ago) link

That's true; I do hate seeing movies I love get zero votes, but those are the règle du jeu

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:55 (two weeks ago) link

Be strong, Mr. Eric! People are watching.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:56 (two weeks ago) link

Remind me to tell you about the time I looked into the heart of a cannoli

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:12 (two weeks ago) link

As if The Godfather will get one vote. If only!

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:43 (two weeks ago) link

I've been doing my darndest to direct the reactionary votes toward Seven Samurai this whole time evillaugh.gif

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:45 (two weeks ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:01 (two weeks ago) link

lol

sault bae (voodoo chili), Friday, 20 January 2023 00:02 (two weeks ago) link

lol -- see, clem? You weren't alone!

Who were the secret 2001 voters?

An even spread, though Murnau deservedThe Searchers' two votes.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 January 2023 00:06 (two weeks ago) link

yes, Sunrise deserved more love, but I like that all the rest got votes

Dan S, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:18 (two weeks ago) link

The number that surprises me the most--shocks me almost--is 9 for Persona. Nothing to do with the film, which I love, but beforehand I was going to predict which five films I thought most likely to get zero, and that was going to be one of them. People just rarely talk about it in the context of these lists.

clemenza, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:36 (two weeks ago) link

2 for Vertigo is a surprise given its Morbsies placement

jmm, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:38 (two weeks ago) link

Actually, that's just as or maybe even more surprising.

clemenza, Friday, 20 January 2023 00:41 (two weeks ago) link

An even spread, though Murnau deservedThe Searchers' two votes.

otm, it's really stunningly beautiful top to bottom iirc

ꙮ (map), Friday, 20 January 2023 01:05 (two weeks ago) link

Being the only film to get zero votes is special in its own way!

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 20 January 2023 01:18 (two weeks ago) link

Unless I’m missing something, that’s a grand total of 1 vote for silent (or thereabouts) cinema?

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 20 January 2023 01:23 (two weeks ago) link

At least this poll kept Regle in the top 10

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 20 January 2023 01:24 (two weeks ago) link

Man With a Movie Camera is silent, unless you see it with the Shuffle Demons providing an improvised soundtrack.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 20 January 2023 01:35 (two weeks ago) link

I knew I was overlooking something

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 20 January 2023 01:38 (two weeks ago) link

murnau was robbed

POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Friday, 20 January 2023 02:24 (two weeks ago) link

2002: pop critics are stupid rockists that can barely put a sentence together. ILX is where it's at.
2022: ILX doesn't get a ballot for the S&S poll. Let's keep it that way.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 January 2023 08:48 (two weeks ago) link

Seriously though, seeing Renoir at 2nd place and then the discussion was really great. I should rewatch Regle and get to French CanCan

xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 January 2023 09:10 (two weeks ago) link

2002: pop critics are stupid rockists that can barely put a sentence together. ILX is where it's at.
2022: ILX doesn't get a ballot for the S&S poll. Let's keep it that way.

2001: Wins yet again

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 20 January 2023 12:32 (two weeks ago) link

Wow. I voted for either Cleo or Persona (can't remember which) but both Sunrise and Meshes of the Afternoon deserved better than this.

emil.y, Friday, 20 January 2023 18:23 (two weeks ago) link

Michael Jeck’s commentary for Seven Samurai on the Criterion Channel is rather dry but super well observed and cool.

ryan, Saturday, 21 January 2023 20:26 (two weeks ago) link

Sight and Sound 2022 Round 2: 21-40

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Sunday, 22 January 2023 15:28 (one week ago) link

btw when did Close-Up become the canonical Kiarostami but not Through the Olive Trees, A Taste of Cherry, Certified Copy, etc., all of which I prefer? (Close-Up is fine ftr).

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 22 January 2023 22:51 (one week ago) link

Close-Up was also the only Kiarostami in the top 100 in 2002 (#68) and 2012 (#43).

jaymc, Monday, 23 January 2023 00:38 (one week ago) link

My first watch was in 2012, yeah.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2023 00:43 (one week ago) link

seemed like every public library in the county had a copy of A Taste of Cherry.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2023 00:44 (one week ago) link

Same way Tokyo Story became the default Ozu … who the hell knows? (I love Close-Up, and it’s still maybe my #4 or #5 AK overall.)

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 23 January 2023 00:48 (one week ago) link

TS became the default Ozu, I suspect, because it was easily available. Every Blockbuster I visited in the '90s had a VHS copy. Not the case with Close-Up, I don't think.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2023 00:50 (one week ago) link

the meta quality of it, as a docufiction film that kind of becomes a documentary, makes it stand out among his other great films to me

Dan S, Monday, 23 January 2023 00:56 (one week ago) link

Oh, I know: we're suckers for films about films. But this is Kiarostami's fascination.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 January 2023 00:57 (one week ago) link

That he inserted himself into the middle of the film and changed the course of events makes it unlike any other film I think

Dan S, Monday, 23 January 2023 01:07 (one week ago) link

Tokyo Story became the default Ozu because it references neither a season nor a time of day and as such is easier not to get mixed up with a different Ozus.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 23 January 2023 10:43 (one week ago) link

Tokyo Story's '92 placement (surprise top 3) fed into its availability in the ensuing decade(s) ... I agree with Dan S that Close-Up is perhaps the slipperiest of Kiarostami's meta experiments, which is also to account for it getting pushed to the top.

(Also, '22 seemed to take a lot of cues from '12 in terms of what new masters' "default" picks would be)

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 23 January 2023 12:41 (one week ago) link

I wish I was in Miami instead of cold and drizzly New Jersey. Speaking of how certain films seem to get selected as the representative for a director who often made many films in a similar style, of the 5 Wong Kar Wai films I’ve seen, In the Mood for Love is the one that made the least impression on me. But I get that it’s kind of the most grown-up and has the best production values.

o. nate, Thursday, 26 January 2023 02:12 (one week ago) link

I usually don’t let the weather get to me, but the cold drizzle this evening and stepping over or walking through the resultant puddles was totally a bummer.

Cry for a Shadowgraph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 January 2023 05:15 (one week ago) link


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