So it’s critically acclaimed? And now viewable? And the good reviews are for the weakest arcs in the series? I kind of cannot wait?
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 6 August 2022 01:00 (one week ago) link
Loved the hell out of the comics, but that was many many years ago. I can't remember the story anymore. It will be interesting to see how the series compares, but reviews seem positive
― Vinnie, Saturday, 6 August 2022 01:18 (one week ago) link
Three episodes in. I've not read the comics so can't compare but it's... okay so far? Dream is almost unbearably dour but everyone else is pretty good
― Roz, Saturday, 6 August 2022 01:53 (one week ago) link
The reviews I read said it picks up after the first three episodes
― Vinnie, Saturday, 6 August 2022 02:33 (one week ago) link
Despite the voyeristic violent qualities of it I always enjoyed the grisly 24 Hours issue and am looking forward to seeing David Thewlis being extremely *no spoilers* in it
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 6 August 2022 02:43 (one week ago) link
i just watched the first ep and was fully in a trance-like state the whole timei didnt even rate sturridge really before now but def on board with thisalso the saturated color + soft focus + long lens really does it for me
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 6 August 2022 05:45 (one week ago) link
Watched the first 2 episodes yesterday then looked for a thread to comment on. Didn't see one so should have started one I guess. So this is here this morning. Think previously there are anticipatory threads for tv adaptations so assumed this would have one.
Think it is great so far. Has been an age since I read the comics. Maybe a decade or more. Used to read as cbr files on computer at the time. Odd for me since I think I prefer physical printed media. But free so probably why.Anyway means I'm not remembering exactly what is and isn't from the comic. Can see some changes, grew up knowing some issues of the comics Cain and Abel hosted so know they were skinny white guys not chubby Asians but that may be a good step. Assume this is a US production so interesting to see how many Brits in it particularly BIPOC. Hope that doesn't translate to it being easier for a British BIPOC to get work in a DC production than a US one or something.
Can't remember the butler/secretary character offhand so can't remember what they looked like in the comic. I recognised the surname Acheampong but think it may have been from an independent film I saw recently so wondered if she had relatives in film making.
Anyway am enjoying this. Think it looks awesome. May need to dig back into the comic again. Glad Gaiman is onboard and this is being done pretty right.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 6 August 2022 07:14 (one week ago) link
So far (finished the eps that compromised vol 1) I’m impressed with what I assume is Gaiman’s polishing of the material. Vol 1 is the weakest of the series tone-wise, and the Netflix series does well to eliminate the early-stage attempts at integrating the DC universe (we don’t have the fates telling Dream to seek out the JLA, for example); the complete overhaul of John Dee’s character is terrific.
Connective tissue between incidental characters that become hugely relevant later on seem to be better delineated on screen. I feel optimistic that the series will greatly improve the weak links of the comics (vol. 1, 2 and 5) and feel somewhat concerned that the series won’t capture the magic of the high points (the bottle episodes, every other volume)— that said, considering how satisfied I was by The Sound Of Her Wings retelling two amazing early issues, generally I’m just staggered by how good this is and feeling annoyance that I’m likely going to have to wait five years at least until the series reaches its conclusion
The casting of Hal/Wanda had me exhaling joyously
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 6 August 2022 16:02 (one week ago) link
started it with wife and kid and they lasted exactly three minutes before saying 'no' so I'll be watching this on my own I guess
― akm, Saturday, 6 August 2022 17:30 (one week ago) link
had a very similar experience!
enjoyed ep 1, generally felt true to my relationship wifh the comics (which i reread a couple of years ago so they’re reasonably fresh in my mind)
but yeah, my partner was keen after reading a glowing Guardian review - and she noped out in the first 10 minutes- and my teenage son sloped off soon after - so i do wonder how it plays if you don’t have a prior relationship with the story and characters?
― the life of a rebo band is always intense (emsworth), Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:04 (one week ago) link
I'm coming from somewhere that I don't think is unusual, especially here - Sandman important to me in my early 20s, but it's a taste I've very much put aside & I remember its faults more than its glories. Haven't touched it in 15 to 20 years maybe, and could run off some superficial critical chatter about it - one shots usually better than arcs, patchy art, Gaiman's a hack (in the best sense), no question a totem of soft 90s we-are-made-of-stories culture etc
and yet and yet I loved this and was basically in tears of delight at everything this gets right & cheering at every step it did not fuck up, ie not just copying the pictures or the Gaiman ick version of cool. A good Constantine, a Death who gets to the kind/implacable core of it. Scruffy smoking occult geezer and cute goth girl are lures that are hard to avoid I think? But it does it. Such good casting throughout - Thewlis on form, & fuck national treasure S Fry, but yes he's Gilbert.
Not mad on Sturridge tbh - persuaded by neither side of the thing he has to pull off - neither lord-of-dreams grandiosity nor the nascent doubt, drollery and tenderness. Also, silly hair. But it's a hard job & it's making think you're better off with a functional Morpheus, rather than one who takes the story over.
And yes The Sound of Her Wings… when I realised halfway through ohhhh we're doing this as well oh shit, and it pulled that off… as much fun as I've had with TV for a while.
fgti otm - it does seem effectively tidied/polished - the big story feels quite cleanly laid out already.
It's hard to see properly, since for me it's basically an emotional journey through the return of a repressed taste, but I'm amazed by how much I enjoyed this.
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:15 (one week ago) link
xpsOddly, my wife went in blind and absolutely loved it. Not much of a fantasy person, hates violence/torture/horror, but that particular Gaiman what-makes-us-human playground of ideas hit solidly, so she stuck through some stuff she wouldn't normally watch (ie 24/7).
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:26 (one week ago) link
My bf adored it all. He likes the frayed-ness of the storytelling and is completely convinced by Sturridge (who it must be noted has a nigh impossible task on his plate)
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:30 (one week ago) link
It did look a bit weird to me early on - I don't have the film/video language to describe it, just a kind of tacky/budget CGI/filmed in slovenia vibe - but I settled into the look within about an episode, after which I was rolling with the story.
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:30 (one week ago) link
Issue 3 (or 4), “dream a little dream”, is likely my least favourite single issue in the comic series, and its corresponding Netflix episode was surprisingly totally just fine
I will not be sad if they just cut the Calliope issue entirely!
Looking forward to the Thermidor one tho
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:33 (one week ago) link
xp yeah, nigh impossible is about right. I'm not enthusiastic, but also thinking 'this seems to be basically working, let's go with it'.
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:34 (one week ago) link
mr veg has never read the comix & ses to like it so far (he is onboard w fantasy genre in general)he said yesterday he is v amused by HOW into it i am: literally everything else we watch i will usually make chatty comments throughout but w this i’m completely transfixed, just dead-silent wide-eyed staring at the tv like a kidhe was like, i knew you were a fan & read the comics etc but waow lol
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:35 (one week ago) link
If this show maintains its budget and production quality, the World’s End episodes might end up being the best fantasy TV ever created tbh
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:35 (one week ago) link
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:39 (one week ago) link
I stopped reading comics for a few years when I was 18 or so - so I dropped out of The Sandman during the early issues, came back during World's End. Became obsessed. I would love to see those stories done with this level of nous.
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:45 (one week ago) link
I only really remember the trichobezoar from Calliope, so I say fine, do it, it introduced me to a weird concept or two.
― woof, Sunday, 7 August 2022 22:59 (one week ago) link
I've never read the comics and I'm enjoying the show greatly. And I wasnt hugely into Good Omens, and completely gave up on American Gods, so.
The whole diner bottle episode was strange and transfixing. Almost Lynchian? Kirby Howell-Baptiste is gorgeously empathetic as Death. That scene where she takes Dream around her "days work" was sweet and sad.
I'm baffled by some of the IMDB reviews. Peoplesaying "Ive never read the comics, but why is this going off on some random storyline". Well it ISNT which you'd know if you had read the comics ffs.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 8 August 2022 00:59 (one week ago) link
Pretty fantastic. I need to work out why I keep falling asleep in front of it. & then have to deal with a set up that appears to be rewinding then starts playing from the point I rewound from. Pretty frustrating. Do I need more space in the memory stick.
Eventually got to see the bit I'd missed though. But think that's happened to like 4 episodes now. & it is a show I'm enjoying. Has been at different times of day too. maybe fitting if it's a show about Morpheus but still annoying.
― Stevolende, Monday, 8 August 2022 06:44 (one week ago) link
I need to work out why I keep falling asleep in front of it.
The clue is in the title, Stevolende
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 8 August 2022 06:53 (one week ago) link
― symsymsym, Monday, 8 August 2022 06:59 (one week ago) link
It's not brilliant, but it's so much better than I would have expected. If anything my partner (who likes Gaiman but hasn't read the comics) was more into it than me.
I've only seen a few episodes but the only noticeable disappointment was the CGI for the Dreaming, which looks a bit kludgy so far.
Sturridge doesn't have much to do but glower, but thank goodness he's good at that, because that's pretty much 100% of the character. Look forward to seeing what he does in Season of Mists, where he has a lot more dialogue iirc, and will need to try a bit harder. Sort of reminded me of RPattz take on Batman.
Really looking forward to see how they do Season of Mists, my favourite volume (is that the usual choice?). The first 40 issues are basically burned into my brain from so much teenage re-reading -- although I got bored and quit around Brief Lives.
If I felt mean, I'd say that there's an element to some of Gaiman's work that makes it feel like "power-pop fantasy", i.e. a slightly ersatz recreation of earlier, purer material, created for an audience of ageing, knowing nerds who like identifying all the references. But then I remember how much I enjoyed reading Sandman as "My First Adult Fantasy Book" as a 13-year-old, so maybe that's not right.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 8 August 2022 10:30 (one week ago) link
Gaiman is perfect for that age imo - I also read him a lot as a teen and grew out of it by my early 20s. I discovered him via Terry Pratchett though, so never read Sandman, only the novels/short stories. ‘Power pop fantasy’ is a good way to describe his work - he’s a good gateway to better, older SFF, many of which he’s riffing off anyway.
I also liked this show a lot but didn’t love it, mostly because I didn’t quite buy Sturridge as omnipotent eternal being - he’s got the cheekbones and looks fabulous in every scene but didn’t quite have the presence/gravitas? but as you said, he didn’t have much to do. Morpheus seemed to me very typical of a Gaiman protagonist in that sense - a cipher through which the audience is introduced to more interesting situations/characters.
― Roz, Monday, 8 August 2022 11:02 (one week ago) link
This I’ll watch the first episode tonight.
If memory serves, I started reading during “A Game of You” (haunting as fuck) and then stuck around for many issues and art teams, beyond the point where I’d lost interest.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 8 August 2022 11:24 (one week ago) link
I haven't heard if there is automatically a 2nd season happening yet or anything. Is this going to continue?Hoping it does work through a bit more anyway. Did start reading the comic again from the start.
― Stevolende, Monday, 8 August 2022 11:28 (one week ago) link
(Correction - I started with “Brief Lives”.)
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 8 August 2022 11:29 (one week ago) link
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. It all looks very much like people standing against a CGI'ed background. The "outdoor" scenes in London look similarly flat and clearly green-screened, which is disappointing when you think of the amount of money that's been spent on it. But I am very much enjoying it otherwise. I think Sturridge is doing a good job. He's got that super-dry sense of humour down.
― trishyb, Monday, 8 August 2022 11:31 (one week ago) link
Bf pointed out last night that "Netflix hasn't renewed a single series past 2nd second since 2017" which makes me pessimistic
I re-read Season of Mists last night and felt further pessimism when I remembered that one of the primary narrative weaknesses of vol. 1 and 2 of the comics (which comprise the first season of the show) is an over-reliance on straight-forward conflicts and action sequences, which make for compelling television. Season, despite being one of the best arcs in the comic series, is so devoid of actual conflict (and zero action!) that I fear that the adaptation will not make for compelling watching for casual viewers
What does make me optimistic I guess is seeing that Gaiman is one of the exec producers
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 8 August 2022 13:55 (one week ago) link
Season of Mists is like one of those TNG episodes where everything gets solved by a long meeting in Picard's office, except in hell. Could be a two-parter really.
Gaiman can't be ignorant of the Netflix cancellation situation, one wonders if/hopes he has a backup plan
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 8 August 2022 14:26 (one week ago) link
xpost That's not true re renewals, is it? They've premiered and renewed plenty of stuff since then, iirc. Umbrella Academy, The Witcher, Russian Doll, Outer Banks, Bridgerton ...
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 August 2022 14:31 (one week ago) link
I agree the first volume is sort of weak and out-of-character with the rest of the series, and it's still a bit like he's playing Alan Moore's sandpit. But I always found Doll's House really enjoyable, and missed it when the series moved on from that vibe to be "decompressed"
I hope they do they boy detective stuff
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 8 August 2022 14:31 (one week ago) link
this is their big tentpole ongoing series at this point, so I think the assumption is they will see it through to the end, but looking at all the fluctuations with netflix' stock and the industry as a whole I wouldn't count on it.
― akm, Monday, 8 August 2022 14:33 (one week ago) link
I'm surprised that some people are put off by the diversity of tone and plot vectors, like The X-Files and Doctor Who never existed
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 8 August 2022 14:49 (one week ago) link
I think if it makes it to Brief Lives I'll be happy - but on the other hand it would be interesting to see a version of the Kindly Ones which isn't Gaiman paddling in place for half of it.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 8 August 2022 15:10 (one week ago) link
I am excited for this even though I remember essentially nothing concrete about the comics, although I am concerned my partner will think it is bad (in which case I will never make time to watch it on my own).
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 8 August 2022 15:35 (one week ago) link
I found it confusing and exposition-heavy but my partner followed it easy enough, so I dunno
Is it bad? IMO, as with Good Omens, Gaiman doesn't really understand how TV narrative works, but the resulting mess is interesting, and because it's so visibly "authored", it avoids the usual streaming show shapelessness
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 8 August 2022 15:51 (one week ago) link
The only misstep, I felt, was throwing in a ham-fisted "omg! Desire is the dad?" moment at the end. Originally this detail was subtle and cool and un-telegraphed, Dream just thinks about it and puts it together himself. Here, Unity mentioning her "golden-eyed love" as the penultimate thing she speaks before passing, followed by shots of Desire's mug, it was really, really annoying
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 8 August 2022 16:37 (one week ago) link
That's not true re renewals, is it? They've premiered and renewed plenty of stuff since then, iirc. Umbrella Academy, The Witcher, Russian Doll, Outer Banks, Bridgerton ...
Russian Doll hasn't had a third commissioned afaik, but Lyonne is perhaps more interested in her not-Columbo series Poker Face with Rian Johnson (same)
IMO, as with Good Omens, Gaiman doesn't really understand how TV narrative works
Gaiman is not in charge of this fwiw, more of a The Dreaming role - he was showrunning Good Omens S2 and Anansi Boys in Scotland. Young Avengers blokey is the Sandman showrunner.
― Vance Vance Devolution (sic), Monday, 8 August 2022 17:48 (one week ago) link
I hope they do they boy detective stuffThey appeared on an episode of Doom Patrol, and a spin-off series has been announced. HBOMax tho.
― Vernon Locke, Tuesday, 9 August 2022 01:25 (one week ago) link
First episode was... okay? The score is distractingly bad as was the Dreaming CGI, non-CGI parts have the sheen of a British house style (Sherlock, Frankenstein, etc.) that I really dislike.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 9 August 2022 05:01 (one week ago) link
Yeah I felt that BBCesque Sherlock/DR Who feel also?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 9 August 2022 07:15 (one week ago) link
The score is distractingly bad as was the Dreaming CGI
This series seems unscorable, though. Impossible to really have a single "language" in a world so frayed. I hope they up their licensing budget, part of the appeal of the comic series was all the little pop culture inserts. Smiled wide at the US Girls sync! yay team
― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 9 August 2022 12:00 (one week ago) link
Episode 6 delivers <3
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 05:47 (six days ago) link
xp - it may well get better in future episodes if there's more variety. I hate big soaring Hans Zimmer strings (louder than any piece of actual dialogue or action) and episode 1 went there too often - especially in any tracking shot of the Dreaming. Maybe I'm stereotyping Neil Gaiman and Vertigo Comics but I wanted minimal and goth-y even in this episode mostly set in the '20s.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 05:58 (six days ago) link
I was wondering if the Dreaming was actually supposed to look a bit unreal and have dramatic soundtrack to highlight the nature of the place while Morpheus was running it prior to his abduction. Like CGI not supposed to be quite a realistic rendering of an actuality but a little off because it's dream or something along those lines.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 08:34 (six days ago) link
Yeah in that vein, in the very last scene in ep 10, Lucifer is holding court with all of what I assume is Hell's demons/some kind of demon council? But it was shown as this almost cartoony black ragged tear in the air, with evil grinning mouths in it. Like a comic sketch! I have to assume it was intentional but it did look strange.
Hid cos I dont know who hasnt caught up yet.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 09:32 (six days ago) link
That sounds like how DC used to portray the Lords of Chaos back in the late 80s
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 09:36 (six days ago) link
yeah a bit - the all-teeth mouths in particular.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 09:40 (six days ago) link
That's one character and that how they looked in the comics, tbh.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 09:43 (six days ago) link
*that's how they looked
Yes and I couldn't help but think like "are they setting up viewers unfamiliar with the series for the expectation of some eye-popping showdown?" because that is the opposite of "welp I'm going to the beach see ya"
― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 13:49 (six days ago) link
I liked the comics well enough back in the day (issue 50 is a masterpiece, I think) but...couldn't get past the first episode of this ? Something tonally off in this for me. Looks great and all but that's just about it. Should I stick with it? Or rewatch both seasons of Rome for the umpteenth time?
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 15:26 (six days ago) link
somehow I've never read the comics, but I'm enjoying the show so far, now I want to go back and read them. The CGI isn't perfect, but I think this show looks way better than a lot of other fantasy and comic adaptations I've watched recently.
This may well be one of the most goth shows ever. Dream can be a bit uninteresting, but he gets a lot of mileage out of his constant pout, and all the supporting characters are great.
I watched the diner episode last night and it really caught me by surprise. About 2/3 of the way through I was getting very restless, it felt like bad Sartrean drama that wasn't going anywhere. But of course it all goes nicely off the rails and then ties back with the greater story in a very impressive and gnarly way.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 15:48 (six days ago) link
Or rewatch both seasons of Rome for the umpteenth time?
Where this is an option I would always do this.
― trishyb, Wednesday, 10 August 2022 16:11 (six days ago) link
Lol yeah..."Rome" is my comfort miniseries.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 20:14 (six days ago) link
About 2/3 of the way through I was getting very restless, it felt like bad Sartrean drama that wasn't going anywhere. But of course it all goes nicely off the rails and then ties back with the greater story in a very impressive and gnarly way.
I had the same reaction, Like where the FUCK is this going, are they trapped in there? Whats happening why is it taking so long... ohhh now I get it.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2022 01:30 (five days ago) link
Rome & Deadwood in alternating years forever
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 11 August 2022 01:34 (five days ago) link
i am enjoying this very much - it actually has a (sorry) dreamlike quality, watching very familiar scenes from the comics recreated pretty faithfully as a moving image
most notably ep 6 with all those lines i know back-to-front - it was like woof posted above, a very pleasurable nostalgia hit for something I cared about in my teenage years
having said that, I feel it is an excellent television version of The Sandman but perhaps not great television?
although i see itt that there are many non-comics people who have enjoyed it
― the life of a rebo band is always intense (emsworth), Friday, 12 August 2022 00:26 (four days ago) link
I just watched ep 7 last night & fgti was otm re the casting of Hal … really excellent & kinda like whole thing so far has reassured me w good choices for the roles i am invested in (so far anyway) I am still enjoying it immensely - i think emsworth may be otm that it’s a good tv version of Sandman but maybe not great tv in and of itself idk but i am fine with that
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 12 August 2022 02:19 (four days ago) link
i just feel like i am on a longhaul flight at cruising altitude w clear skies ahead (or a similar metaphor for flight-phobic/pandemic times)
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 12 August 2022 02:21 (four days ago) link
disappointed taht it's over and have to wait to see if there is a 2nd series coming . Assume there must be from end set up. & of course the comic goes on way after this ends.
Have enjoyed it, think its a good media experience so not sure what would make it good/not good TV. & not sure how niche it is so is taht part of it? Think it has worked very well so hope it is continued with same qualities.
Even Jenna Coleman wasn't as bad as she normally is, doesn't look much like Sting though do she?
― Stevolende, Friday, 12 August 2022 07:16 (four days ago) link
I had forgotten me and my housemates in college went to Halloween as most of The Endless in about 1997! Good memories. This series is a delight. I love how much darkness they're getting away with tbh? I haven't enjoyed the specific gore elements but I appreciate how they define the stakes and boundaries.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Friday, 12 August 2022 14:09 (four days ago) link
Watched the first ep last night and my partner is in, hooray. She did note that hazy, gauzy quality that a lot of Netflix shows seem to be using these days, and is hoping for a bit more humor to it, but is down to see where it goes.
She also asked if I thought Dream looked like Ow3n P@ll3t, lol.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 12 August 2022 14:30 (four days ago) link
I was distracted thinking Dream would turn around and be Neil Gaiman.
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Friday, 12 August 2022 14:41 (four days ago) link
*cough* I think he very closely resembles one P4trick W0lf, myself
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 12 August 2022 17:49 (four days ago) link