Outside Cats - is it a sin?

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tbh I don't really want to throw my hat in this ring I just want to see what side of the law I sit on.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
No 44
Yes 26
Yes, but who cares 7
No, but only because I am a heathen and don't believe in sin 4
Other 4


hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 00:53 (two weeks ago) link

Yes and no.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:03 (two weeks ago) link

touchy subject with a US/UK dividing line, thread should be insta closed to protect board sanity lest we start 2022 with another tipping

, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:05 (two weeks ago) link

UK no, US yes? I'm Aussie and I think culture here is 50/50.

Take a stand Aimless you coward

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:09 (two weeks ago) link

i kind of thought it was a sin to be indoors only. rural bg here though.

Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:14 (two weeks ago) link

fwiw re US/UK this might be an ecosystem issue, the RSPB (bird protection soc in the UK) don't consider cats to be a threat to bird populations in the UK - this may not be the case elsewhere

bovarism, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:18 (two weeks ago) link

Damn, I’m living in 2021 … and posting in 2022! (I know, not really.)

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:21 (two weeks ago) link

Wow, nevermind. I suppose the drinks are settling in. Happy new year folks

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:21 (two weeks ago) link

when i was a kid, literally every cat we ever owned that were let out died outside. run over by car, lost a fight with a dog, eaten by coyotes, you name it.

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:24 (two weeks ago) link

There are some exceptions, but strictly speaking almost all cats should be indoor cats. However I have known both 'barn cats' in rural places, whose main function was to keep rodents in check, and cats who have spent young and formative months as feral cats, who adopted their "owners" on a provisional basis, but who simply could not tolerate confinement.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:26 (two weeks ago) link

yeah HP indoors only is more common in the US than the UK. and people on both sides of the debate are often insane about it (i am pro-indoors only and quite insane about it)(with the exception of barn cats)

, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:26 (two weeks ago) link

xxp

that's why I couldn't have an indoor/outdoor cat again. The first cats my mom got that were indoor-only made it to 23, 20 and 19, not sure any before made it past 10 without disease or disappearance.

But I also despise litter boxes so no cats for me.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:27 (two weeks ago) link

That is the opposite of my expectation. I thought more land+higher libertarian values in the US would swing them towards the outside boys.

I'll take my stand, I let my guys outside. two of them never leave my garden, the other one has become cosy with the neighbours who really like him as well. They're all neutered, and over the year they have killed a baby possum, 2 or 3 butcherbirds, and maybe 7 rats?

I would keep them in if: the neighbours weren't happy (I know them all pretty well), or if they were killing things that weren't pests/numerous.

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:28 (two weeks ago) link

they are definitely a threat to birds anywhere, but I still think it is obscenely cruel to keep them indoors f/t when they seemed to have evolved into the perfect domesticated/wild balance lifestyle that dogs could only dream of after hanging out with humans for thousands of years. Of it's a more difficult decision for people that live in big cities and tower blocks.

calzino, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:31 (two weeks ago) link

"But I also despise litter boxes so no cats for me."

the stench of those things. I worked in a job where I'd go into 10-20 houses a week for years and have so many horror stories about cat shit.

calzino, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:35 (two weeks ago) link

calzino otm. I feel like the domesticated cat was designed to live with humans while still having access to the great outdoors. and whenever I have tried to keep them in I can just see every biological instinct within them rebelling. I get sad going to my wife's parents place and seeing their cats waiting at the door to try escape when we open it to enter, and they have been inside cats for years.

litter boxes kill me

I haven't done cats in a big city though so its all worked out for me so far.

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:37 (two weeks ago) link

average life span of outdoor cats is 8-10 years lower than indoor cats and nearly every domestic cat gets used to indoor life if you work at it a bit. dogs and hamsters would love to free roam as well but they adapt. domesticated cats have evolved to be domestic, and you can give them 100% of the enrichment they need by playing with them for 20 minutes a day and giving them vertical spaces to climb. many don't even need that. only cat i've ever had that didn't get fully used to indoor life was a feral stray we took in that we probably shouldn't have.

, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:37 (two weeks ago) link

I've had 7 cats in my life and the feral one was literally the only one that ever indicated it wanted to go outside. Wanting to go outside is not an inherent trait in domestic cats lol...just play with your cats

, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:39 (two weeks ago) link

i kind of thought it was a sin to be indoors only. rural bg here though.

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Friday, December 31, 2021 5:14 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago)

same here

sarahell, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:43 (two weeks ago) link

I only ever had inside/outside cats growing up, but we lived in a rural place. We never lost any of them. Since living in cities like Chicago and Minneapolis I wouldn't let a cat go outside on its own.

underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:44 (two weeks ago) link

xxp
okay tbf my wife's parents cat was outside early in life and they have transitioned it to inside after like 4 years? So I'll take your words on how they're raised

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:45 (two weeks ago) link

world's best cat litter made from corn = no litter box smell, ever

i could never let my cat outside. she's happy inside and i don't want her to die.

towards fungal computer (harbl), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:45 (two weeks ago) link

I live right on a major highway. If we let our cat out he'd be roadkill.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:47 (two weeks ago) link

one of my parents' cats adopted them when he showed up as a year-old-ish guy and he was indoor/outdoor for a couple years but then he disappeared for a few days and my mom was so distraught. he limped home with a bad animal bite and has been inside for the past 10 years, completely content after an initial adjustment period.

towards fungal computer (harbl), Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:47 (two weeks ago) link

world's best cat litter made from corn = no litter box smell, ever

I use and endorse this

bovarism, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:49 (two weeks ago) link

for the people with indoor only cats, do you have backyards or balconies, and do you let the cats go there?

sarahell, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:50 (two weeks ago) link

I’m sorry but if you’re a bird (ie, a fly-er) and killed by a cat (ground-bound) u probably weren’t meant 4 this world

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:51 (two weeks ago) link

Grew up in the UK and had cats who spent half their lives roaming outside (we lived in urban areas) and it never would have occurred to me that cats might live otherwise. Moved to the US and discovered that people have indoor cats which seemed weird at first but--run over by car, lost a fight with a dog, eaten by coyotes--yeah it makes sense.

visiting, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:52 (two weeks ago) link

let cats do what they want in 2022

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:52 (two weeks ago) link

this is like arguing about parenting of human offspring ... I am so not gonna post anything prescriptive in this thread, apart from, if you are going to have a cat, you should love it, and also post pics

sarahell, Saturday, 1 January 2022 01:59 (two weeks ago) link

thank you!

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:02 (two weeks ago) link

My semi-wooded suburban neighborhood had a variety of outdoor cats roaming around when we first moved here. Coyotes arrived a few years later. Soon we had a half-eaten cat carcass in our front yard and within a year or so there were no more outdoor cats left.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:02 (two weeks ago) link

woman across the road from me has loads of indoor/outdoor cats, she must have at least 8. It amuses me when there are some on the inside on the window ledge and others on the outside of the window all sat there in a row like some big organised crime gang separated by a window, not sure which ones are the happiest at this point but it is a funny sight!

calzino, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:03 (two weeks ago) link

i love my cat way too much to ever let her out no matter how much Outside is All She Wants, she is small and sweet-natured and i have many mean neighborhood cats and coyotes for neighbors. i also posted many pics of her on instagram this evening

Clay, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:07 (two weeks ago) link

Are coyotes actually real? I thought they were just a looney tunes character? Massive lol at the “Australian wild life will kill you!” Stereotype as well. While there might be some danger for outside cats in suburban Australia, it definitely does not come from wildlife

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:34 (two weeks ago) link

I grew up with multiple indoor / outdoor cats. One disappeared. One got mauled but healed. They mostly managed okay.

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:40 (two weeks ago) link

let cats do what they want in 2022

― k3vin k., Friday, December 31, 2021 8:52 PM (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they're going to anyway so we should just accept it

call all destroyer, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:43 (two weeks ago) link

Are coyotes actually real? I thought they were just a looney tunes character? Massive lol at the “Australian wild life will kill you!” Stereotype as well. While there might be some danger for outside cats in suburban Australia, it definitely does not come from wildlife

― hrep (H.P), Friday, December 31, 2021 9:34 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

coyotes are real, they live in the woods behind my house. a couple years ago one snatched a little dog out of a yard in my neighborhood. the next day a very distraught woman asked me if she could cut through my yard to get to the woods because she was just hoping to find some remaining evidence of the dog she loved.

call all destroyer, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:46 (two weeks ago) link

We definitely have coyotes here. The tend to leave gruesome roadkill now and then. My kids, back when they were little, would sometimes have recess cancelled because there was a coyote about. I have friends who hear them when they take their dogs out for a walk, because you can hear the long coyote claws click-clack on the street. I myself have come across coyotes lurking about several times, in broad daylight.

When we got our cat (he was born on a farm) it was a challenge to keep him inside. Like, every day, every single time we opened the door, he would try to get out, and to stop him several times a day started to feel cruel. So for most of his life, he's been in indoor/outdoor car. He goes out when he asks, but especially as he gets older, he otherwise stays in. I know statistically their lives are better indoor-only, and tbf he's had a few mysterious injuries, one of which (however it occurred) left him blind in one eye (the eye is intact, but he sustained damage somehow to his optic nerve), but his life as indoor-outdoor has worked out pretty well for him. As he's gotten older (he's about 14) his roaming circle has gotten smaller and smaller. These days he's rarely much further afield than our backyard, or under the deck.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:48 (two weeks ago) link

there's tons of coyotes where i live (just outside of portland), in the summer i tend to go running at night to avoid the heat and if i don't run into a few coyotes it's a weird night

Clay, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:48 (two weeks ago) link

Coyote I saw down the street a couple of years ago:

https://i.imgur.com/uh30YTR.jpg

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:50 (two weeks ago) link

I expect coyotes will be a living species long after the last human dies. they are exceptionally smart, sneaky and tough. Humans managed to eradicate wolves in many places. They have had zero luck eradicating coyotes anywhere, no matter how hard they've tried.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:50 (two weeks ago) link

Coyote in Michael Mann's "Collateral":

https://the-take.com/images/uploads/screenprism/_constrain-1080w/Collateral_Coyote_Crossing.jpg

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:51 (two weeks ago) link

let cats do what they want in 2022

― k3vin k., Friday, December 31, 2021 8:52 PM (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they're going to anyway so we should just accept it

― call all destroyer, Saturday, 1 January 2022 12:43 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I lean deterministic which definitely correlates to my outside cat position.

hrep (H.P), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:52 (two weeks ago) link

sin is a strong word, but cats should be kept inside

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:54 (two weeks ago) link

the animal that wounded my mom's cat and caused him permanent nerve damage was likely a coyote

towards fungal computer (harbl), Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:56 (two weeks ago) link

my take is simple--cats that are born and raised indoors should stay that way for their safety in most places. cats that have spent some time outside for whatever reason probably should be allowed to continue. their lives will be shorter but from what i've seen bringing an outdoor cat inside full time can be very tough.

call all destroyer, Saturday, 1 January 2022 02:58 (two weeks ago) link

our kitty is much to clumsy, goofy and neurotic to be let outside. he seems pretty happy indoors, but needs to play a lot.

Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Saturday, 1 January 2022 03:04 (two weeks ago) link

Some cats really want to go out, some cats don't.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 January 2022 03:06 (two weeks ago) link

In fact that boy just came chapping right now, this is them necking as greeting:
https://i.imgur.com/lf6Vcl3.jpeg

Aberdeen Thugs Kiss All Visiting Fans (Jonathan Hellion Mumble), Sunday, 9 January 2022 14:55 (one week ago) link

Aw.

I have a friend that had a cat stolen (!) by a neighbor!

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 9 January 2022 14:56 (one week ago) link

xpost "Hmm, what kind of creature are you? Whiskers, ears, tail ... holy shit, it's another cat!" (Hissing and scratching commences)

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 9 January 2022 14:57 (one week ago) link

Josh, one of my childhood cats would vanish for suspiciously long times. We found out that a neighbor was feeding him crab meat. She was surprised that we had any objection. Apropos of nothing, that cat was named Jeep (for his ability to travel vertically up furniture).

Our current cat, Oliver, had been a stray when we met him. A family acquaintance found him at a bus stop and thought we might be a good choice of home.

My wife and children loved him immediately and wanted to keep him. I was a little skeptical, because he looked like a kittypet and probably already had a family.

As it turned out, he had a chip and did, in fact, have a family. But that family didn't want him back and had already replaced him. Apparently he had too much cattitude for them. Hence he became ours. He is good beastkind.

But it took a while - he escaped once, before he'd had time to really grasp the concept of home. It was a big effort to get him back. Hence he's inside for the foreseeable future. Honestly I'd feel a smidge better about letting him out if I had any confidence he would return.

nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 9 January 2022 16:25 (one week ago) link

outside of an aforementioned cat that had passed on, my other 2 cats were abandoned by a tenant that had previously rented the place we were living at the time. our landlord didn't have the heart to take them to the kennel as they were very nice and sweet and were known to have been outdoor cats. this was pretty far out in the country, maybe 5 other houses within a mile of our place. over time we'd check in on them/feed them and eventually adopted them as our own.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 9 January 2022 17:47 (one week ago) link

These cats sound marvelous and I would like to see pictures of them plz

davey, Sunday, 9 January 2022 20:35 (one week ago) link

& more stories of catventures w/ happy endings purr favor

toesy bro:

https://i.imgur.com/MwflQZv.jpg

cowboy bopeep (cat), Sunday, 9 January 2022 21:45 (one week ago) link

I also, would like to request the furtherance of happy cat stories and furry photos.

In return, here is one of my own. Notice Butch’s subtle claw-flex just in case Gus tries any funny business.

https://imgur.com/a/lf9C1MJ.jpg

hrep (H.P), Sunday, 9 January 2022 22:00 (one week ago) link

xp: so many toes!

peace, man, Sunday, 9 January 2022 23:58 (one week ago) link

yesss, thread delivers.

i'm dead tired but i will return with stories/photos

davey, Monday, 10 January 2022 09:03 (one week ago) link

Outside cats benefit the community. The three main outside cats in my London square are valued personal friends.

Luna Schlosser, Monday, 10 January 2022 10:42 (one week ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 13 January 2022 00:01 (six days ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 14 January 2022 00:01 (five days ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJBWEYUXwAMDI_s?format=jpg&name=small

Good job everyone

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Friday, 14 January 2022 00:05 (five days ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/iLLlFhL.jpg

one of mine sleeping in a gardenbed of cilantro

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 14 January 2022 01:47 (five days ago) link

tbrr w/u i am scrolling through and only looking at the pictures itt

sarahell, Friday, 14 January 2022 02:15 (five days ago) link

the important thing is that

https://i.imgur.com/qfZYfRC.jpg

cowboy bopeep (cat), Friday, 14 January 2022 03:01 (five days ago) link

tho we must also keep in mind

https://i.imgur.com/lAhV07A.jpg

cowboy bopeep (cat), Friday, 14 January 2022 03:07 (five days ago) link

i would like to add that

https://i.imgur.com/xfdM55B.png

Clay, Friday, 14 January 2022 03:29 (five days ago) link

clay otm

sarahell, Friday, 14 January 2022 04:25 (five days ago) link

Not to be a contrarian, but we all need to keep in mind that
https://imgur.com/a/FGN8zuI.jpg

hrep (H.P), Friday, 14 January 2022 04:40 (five days ago) link

Good lord I used the same phrase as cowboy. Ban me pls

hrep (H.P), Friday, 14 January 2022 04:41 (five days ago) link

See thread: Reusing the same phrase used in a post several posts above yours - is it a sin?

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 14 January 2022 04:45 (five days ago) link

not when you are making an excellent point, as H.P has! we can’t let minor concerns over word choice distract us from

https://i.imgur.com/tCaGzSg.jpg

cowboy bopeep (cat), Friday, 14 January 2022 05:24 (five days ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is

http://i.imgur.com/rpf9D9X.jpg

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 14 January 2022 14:25 (five days ago) link

https://giphy.com/gifs/Ybp1giphetsePsHxjI

my client considers the matter closed and is unwilling to offer further comment

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Friday, 14 January 2022 14:50 (five days ago) link

wish flappy bird was around to offer their perspective

cowboy bopeep (cat), Friday, 14 January 2022 17:55 (five days ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJGeBH8XwAokAVb?format=jpg&name=large

calzino, Sunday, 16 January 2022 02:40 (three days ago) link

JUSTICE FOR SIMPKIN

SIMPKIN JUST WANTS TO LEARN, DAMMIT

THERE’S NOTHING IN THE RULES THAT SAYS A CAT CAN’T HAVE A LIBRARY CARD

cowboy bopeep (cat), Sunday, 16 January 2022 02:49 (three days ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJJjd4cXoAQ_J48?format=jpg&name=large

apparently they already have a more civilised regular indoor/outdoor cat in this particular library called Walter. This unbidden intruder thug-cat Simpkin (who belongs at Hertford!) has been causing him some distress.

calzino, Sunday, 16 January 2022 03:04 (three days ago) link

this is a matter for the cats to hash out between themselves, in the age-old battle for dominion over human knowledge and the right to snooze on that knowledge

cowboy bopeep (cat), Sunday, 16 January 2022 03:29 (three days ago) link

Consider yourself lucky your library would have two cats! oh but to have only one :(

hrep (H.P), Sunday, 16 January 2022 04:35 (three days ago) link

Agree that his seems to be a problem for the cats and the Brits considering their history would do well to stick to matters of their own kind. Let the Cats govern themselves

hrep (H.P), Sunday, 16 January 2022 04:36 (three days ago) link

H.P otm, as am i. if this “walter” chap cannot defend his library then perhaps he should consider a less demanding and competitive venue, like a bodega or a wharf. libraries belong to those cats with the will to take them. this is the immutable law of the jungle and human interference will only disrupt the natural order of things.

cowboy bopeep (cat), Sunday, 16 January 2022 06:10 (three days ago) link

Cowboy Bopeep a Simpkin burner account confirmed.

hrep (H.P), Sunday, 16 January 2022 07:51 (three days ago) link

i’m just sayin you pull one thread and the whole house of cards could come unraveled, sheep on the bus, badgers in the closet, i don’t think the uk can handle any more chaos right now

cowboy bopeep (cat), Sunday, 16 January 2022 10:38 (three days ago) link

JCO steps into the controversy

is this really good? our poor enervated indoor cats get virtually no exercise, ever. they are born to hunt, stalk, chase, kill, devour their prey, even in the dark...instead, not only are they fed constantly, their food is placed literally in front of their mouths. not good. https://t.co/1Wnv08DZx3

— Joyce Carol Oates (@JoyceCarolOates) January 17, 2022

Josefa, Monday, 17 January 2022 04:01 (two days ago) link

We have an indoor/outdoor cat and there's no way we could keep him permanently indoors - on the few occasions we've had to keep him in for a few days, he's gone stir crazy insane. When I was living in Paris, I heard numerous stories of "chats d'appartement" who fell to their deaths from balconies - and I used to watch with horror a cat across the road from our apartment block, who would leap from one impossibly narrow ledge to another, five floors up.

It's tricky as no doubt cats are a scourge on the local wildlife, although I'm pretty sure my particular cat doesn't manage to catch anything beyond cockroaches and small lizards.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 17 January 2022 04:13 (two days ago) link

It was extremely cold in NJ yesterday, so I emailed my mom to check up on her, and as part of that, asked how her cat was doing. He goes out; he even has a little "igloo" on her back porch that he hangs out in, but I figured he might have converted to an indoor lifestyle. Turned out he hadn't been outside since October, but then went outside yesterday and lasted about a minute before curling up right next to her wood stove. She lives on the edge of a state park and has seen bears in her driveway in the past, but the cat seems to know not to go outside when there are large predators around.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 17 January 2022 12:53 (two days ago) link

This morning our cat projectile vomited his wet food all over the basement windowsill, where he was sitting, staring out. I would have much preferred he did that barfing outside.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 January 2022 13:38 (two days ago) link

“our poor enervated indoor cats get no exercise”

i’m sorry i’m assuming jco had a big house and cat toys. for fuck’s sake

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 17 January 2022 13:40 (two days ago) link

has*

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 17 January 2022 13:40 (two days ago) link

damn what luck josh, your cat threw up on glass instead of a rug. good for you

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 17 January 2022 13:43 (two days ago) link

Ha, actually, the cat missed the window entirely and did it all over the windowsill/ledge (it's on the stairs leading down), where it *then* dripped down ... onto the carpet.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 January 2022 13:44 (two days ago) link

cats are very good at picking where to throw up it’s amazing

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 17 January 2022 13:45 (two days ago) link

i’m sorry i’m assuming jco had a big house and cat toys. for fuck’s sake

I'm imagining poor, enervated JCO holding a cat toy and staring at it, wondering what it is, how it could possibly be used, why anyone would think she would need such a thing.

Most of my cats are not hunters. The one who is used to love it when I threw her kibble up the stairs, a piece at a time, so she could hunt it and kill it. Even she can't be arsed with that carry-on nowadays.

trishyb, Monday, 17 January 2022 15:08 (two days ago) link

i imagine she is affluent enough that she could hire a personal trainer for her cat

but seriously -- more pics

sarahell, Monday, 17 January 2022 19:46 (two days ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/U7PdCjL.jpg

Context: this is from last summer, when some birds were sick and sluggish with iirc West Nile, which explains how my guy, arthritic, missing a canine and blind in one eye, was able to catch his first anything in years.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 January 2022 19:55 (two days ago) link

That is a great picture Josh. Captures it all

hrep (H.P), Monday, 17 January 2022 22:54 (two days ago) link


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