Is the US a dystopia?

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Poll Results

OptionVotes
yes 32
no 15
just look around 11
now that I know they microwave water for tea there, yes 8
The Beatles 6
this question is unhelpful 5
I can't answer without sharing my personal definition of dystopia 5
please confine this issue to the EZRA KLEIN v MATT YGLESIAS thread where it belongs 4
imagine some Greek letters here 2


rob, Friday, 10 December 2021 20:28 (five months ago) link

option 3 ftw

imago, Friday, 10 December 2021 20:35 (five months ago) link

US perfidy always comes back to tea

rob, Friday, 10 December 2021 20:41 (five months ago) link

not really

ciderpress, Friday, 10 December 2021 20:57 (five months ago) link

hm sounds like you're either a "no" or "The Beatles" but afaict you can still secretly vote however you wish

rob, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:03 (five months ago) link

it's going to take a lot of restraint not to shoehorn this in to thread connections

rob, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:06 (five months ago) link

I figured it was what it was for.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:18 (five months ago) link

least serious answer is the correct one

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 10 December 2021 21:31 (five months ago) link

by that you mean "yes"?

Evan, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:33 (five months ago) link

oh misread "least" as "last" nevermind

Evan, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:34 (five months ago) link

This question is unhelpful and I have no idea why it is being asked.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 10 December 2021 21:45 (five months ago) link

Badly trimmed shrub = dystopiary

Jeremy Ironist (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 10 December 2021 21:50 (five months ago) link

Dropped the clay - dyspottery

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Friday, 10 December 2021 21:51 (five months ago) link

I mean, pulling up the forecast today and seeing tornado warnings for Chicago in mid-December doesn't make me not think it's a dystopia.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 10 December 2021 21:58 (five months ago) link

an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or post-apocalyptic.

not imagined, authoritarian rather than totalitarian and pre-apocalyptic instead of post IMO

so maybe it's not a dystopia but merely dystopic

papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 10 December 2021 22:21 (five months ago) link

dystopic? I dunno. but ilx is def dyspeptic today.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 10 December 2021 22:26 (five months ago) link

I did not remotely intend this thread to be serious, but there's an argument to be made that 1492 counts as the apocalypse

rob, Friday, 10 December 2021 22:30 (five months ago) link

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 December 2021 01:10 (five months ago) link

let it beatles

hopefully this review helped someone (Neanderthal), Saturday, 11 December 2021 01:13 (five months ago) link

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 11 December 2021 01:14 (five months ago) link

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 December 2021 01:17 (five months ago) link

you can get with dystopia, or you can get with datopia

hopefully this review helped someone (Neanderthal), Saturday, 11 December 2021 01:19 (five months ago) link

just throwing this out there but maybe dystopia fans are blind to dystopias

let's make lunch and listen to five finger death punch (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:02 (five months ago) link

I dunno I think most fans of the crust punk band Dystopia probably would agree that the USA is a dystopia fwiw

bovarism, Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:19 (five months ago) link

let me see, is the US a dystopia.

the republican party is trying to actively KILL a lot of people. let me just see how that plays in the polls

The approval rating among those who voted for [Biden] has dropped from 80% to 69% in the April survey. There have been notable declines among Americans 18-34 and suburban residents, both of whom, in dramatic swings, now register net negative views on the president.

As bad as Biden’s number may be, the polling data for Democrats in Congress is far worse.

Republicans now sport a historic 10-point advantage when Americans are asked which party they prefer to control Congress, holding a 44%-34% margin over Democrats. That’s up from a 2-point Republican advantage in the October survey.

In the past 20 years, CNBC and NBC surveys have never registered a double-digit Republican advantage on congressional preference, with the largest lead ever being 4 pints for the GOP.

“If the election were tomorrow, it would be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the Democrats,″ said Jay Campbell, partner at Hart Research Associates and the Democratic pollster for the survey.

yes it's a full blown dystopia

my hands are always in my pockets or gesturing. (Karl Malone), Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:23 (five months ago) link

nah but rich people have never had it better tho

let's make lunch and listen to five finger death punch (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:24 (five months ago) link

A 4 pint lead is difficult to overcome tbh. sorry

bovarism, Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:29 (five months ago) link

Can the apocalypse be local?

Americans rly struggle with not being the world and i think its quite telling tbh

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Friday, December 10, 2021 8:10 PM (one hour ago)

I was addressing "the apocalypse" that it could be argued helps to confirm the US as a dystopia, the subject of this important poll. So I guess I do think it can be local, idk, why not? Anyway Columbus never even entered future-US territory, it's more of a symbolic hinge year for everything being terrible from then on

rob, Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:31 (five months ago) link

I'd figure most people using the term think in the sense of dystopian science fiction and I kinda think 2021 has quite a few elements that seem like out of such.

earlnash, Saturday, 11 December 2021 02:35 (five months ago) link

There's no utopia that's not someone's dystopia, and vice versa.

Infanta Terrible (j.lu), Saturday, 11 December 2021 16:15 (five months ago) link

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.

Rep. Cobra Commander (R-TX) (Old Lunch), Saturday, 11 December 2021 16:33 (five months ago) link

If the US ticks all the boxes- and there's a case- then clearly plenty of very nice places to live in exist besides so id say thats a clear yes

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 December 2021 19:04 (five months ago) link

Have we ever not been? Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 11 December 2021 22:25 (five months ago) link

the people in the mayfield candle factory that collapsed worked 12-hour shifts that paid $8 an hour. 110 ppl were inside. 40 ppl are still unaccounted for. they haven’t recovered a survivor since 3 am. pic.twitter.com/CsIIfLw3Pc

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 12 December 2021 05:12 (five months ago) link

it’s legal in kentucky to fire someone for refusing to work mandatory overtime

— Tracy Moore (@iusedtobepoor) December 11, 2021

papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 12 December 2021 05:14 (five months ago) link

The notion of local dystopias is an interesting one. Could be that there was an egalitarian paradise unfolding just a continent or two over from Mad Max.


This applies to a ton of dystopian fiction I think - first thing I thought of is the handmaid’s tale, where it’s made explicit that the way society is structured in Gilead is different to neighbouring countries. A lot of the classic dys/utopias seemed to involve a traveller ending up in one of these societies (& sometimes returning) & there is no suggestion that the conditions of the society explored are universal

coombination gazza hut & scampo bell (wins), Sunday, 12 December 2021 11:49 (five months ago) link

Zardoz is another one. Although The Eternals are mainly a bunch of insufferable bores and their egalitarian paradise is pretty lame, but you wouldn't complain about it if you were being held captive by Charlotte Rampling.

calzino, Sunday, 12 December 2021 13:16 (five months ago) link

Slave state — apartheid state — Vietnam/Watergate — Corporate state — Fury Road (2016-present)

We didn't start the fire, etc.

ma dmac's fury road (PBKR), Sunday, 12 December 2021 14:04 (five months ago) link

Let's see what all we have...you got this one.

US combined laissez-faire capitalism on it's drug industry and combined with heroin blow-back from the 'war on terror' created the opioid epidemic for fun and profit killing over a million Americans since 1999.

earlnash, Sunday, 12 December 2021 15:21 (five months ago) link

Getting back to the topic at hand, Le Guin wrote a book about a moon. Also was there some Cold War global political framework in her gender-bender book? I don't recall.

Climate catastrophe is going to be pretty universal IIRC.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:14 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

which is v little to do with the point about 1492 is it

― fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Saturday, December 11, 2021 1:17 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

It is though (unless I'm misreading). The USA is the biggest historical contributor to the climate crisis. An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis. Same for much of global environmental destruction -- Amazon forest all gone? Thank Ronald McDonald.

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Sunday, 12 December 2021 18:51 (five months ago) link

Local teachers in South Dakota “Dash for Cash” to help their classrooms by fighting over $5,000 in $1 bills while the crowd hoots and hollers. pic.twitter.com/azwGJKhaKU

— Eoin Higgins (@EoinHiggins_) December 12, 2021

mookieproof, Sunday, 12 December 2021 23:29 (five months ago) link

they're going to remove that rug at some point

my hands are always in my pockets or gesturing. (Karl Malone), Sunday, 12 December 2021 23:34 (five months ago) link

and then charge them for it!

calzino, Sunday, 12 December 2021 23:37 (five months ago) link

An argument could be made that if 1492 never happened, there would be no global crisis.

Are we talking a world where Europe never came into contact with the Americas?

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 13 December 2021 10:32 (five months ago) link

I can’t live without potatoes

A Pile of Ants (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 13 December 2021 14:19 (five months ago) link

-LL McCooljay

hopefully this review helped someone (Neanderthal), Monday, 13 December 2021 15:46 (five months ago) link

It would have happened eventually.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 13 December 2021 16:40 (five months ago) link

I can’t live without potatoes

OTM

When Smeato Met Moaty (Tom D.), Monday, 13 December 2021 16:56 (five months ago) link

Lol, Neanderthal.

Santa’s Got a Brand New Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 December 2021 17:14 (five months ago) link

Good job, CEQA

Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 7 February 2022 04:01 (three months ago) link

rename thread "prove the US is a dystopia" now i guess

DT, Monday, 7 February 2022 05:27 (three months ago) link

I think that's been settled already

bad milk blood robot (sleeve), Monday, 7 February 2022 06:36 (three months ago) link

This is still a question?

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 7 February 2022 08:20 (three months ago) link

hahahaaa

dig your way out of the shit with a gold magic shovel! (Karl Malone), Thursday, 17 February 2022 01:20 (three months ago) link

if you meet Jeff Bezos on the road, kill him

rob, Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:45 (three months ago) link

touching JB—or really any of our oligarchs—is virtually impossible.

but there’s a guy, or more likely a committee, who came up with the cry box. bet you could find them ;)

concentrating on Rationality (the book) (will), Thursday, 17 February 2022 14:55 (three months ago) link

rob was probably less advocating murder and more naming a zen precept

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 17 February 2022 19:02 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

'If they weren't mentally ill before, they sure are now!!'

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 11 April 2022 23:36 (one month ago) link

that recruitment ad seems more fitting for internet ads that raise an eyebrow

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 11 April 2022 23:58 (one month ago) link

Took me a sec to realize they didn't mean the guards

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 12 April 2022 00:43 (one month ago) link

Leave it to the @WSJopinion to look for the “unintended consequences” of financially freeing millions. pic.twitter.com/uT7xWyllIv

— Hector Oseguera, Esq. (@Oseguera2020) April 14, 2022

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Thursday, 14 April 2022 15:30 (one month ago) link

time to introduce Service Guarantees Citizenship

a spectre is haunting your mom (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 14 April 2022 15:35 (one month ago) link

four weeks pass...

american suburbs have always been dystopic

Slovakian sees a video about American suburbs and posts questions to Reddit. The level of bafflement is hilarious and appropriate. pic.twitter.com/f6X5CzeYuE

— Tristan Cleveland (@LUrbaniste) May 11, 2022

rob, Thursday, 12 May 2022 13:26 (one week ago) link

I’m bored and sick so I looked at accounts of the big mad responses you’re not going to believe this but they get straight racist in their most recent couple of tweets/ retweets, if not right in the bio.

OG Bob Sacamano (will), Thursday, 12 May 2022 14:02 (one week ago) link

I thought it was kind of funny how so many big mad replies ignored the existence of American cities

rob, Thursday, 12 May 2022 14:20 (one week ago) link

I live in an American suburb that has almost all of the things that people don't think exist in American suburbs

Like sidewalks, public transit, apartments, row houses, businesses and mixed-use new urban stuff, plus vegetable gardens

This just seems like a really limited thing where you pick the worst example of something and decide that all of that thing is like that

may the florist be with you (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 12 May 2022 15:17 (one week ago) link

i don't know where you love ymp but most of the thing is like that tbf

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 12 May 2022 15:22 (one week ago) link

yeah YMP, most US suburbs are utter shitholes with none of what you describe

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:05 (one week ago) link

my family lives in the suburbs. it has sidewalks, no public transit (not even st louis has minimally viable public transit), no apartments, no row houses, no businesses or any sort of zoning other than "single family unit", and almost of the yards are very large, fenced in, and either empty or with a swing set or bench or something on one side. i don't see anyone there, even though every single house (which, yes, they are all identical, for as far as you can see in any direction, down every culdesac) appears to be occupied and has cars parked in the garage and driveway. but there are zero people outside. there is a small town about 2 miles away but everyone drives there. everyone is ecstatic

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:21 (one week ago) link

i used to scoff at that form of the American Dream, but all of these boring people living in their boring houses and never going outside appear to be doing way, way better than i am, and i'm sure they look at my life and think "dude just kill yourself"

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:22 (one week ago) link

My parents live in an older suburb of Philadelphia, so there are some amenities like a bus that comes once an hour, little shops and the like. Nearby, there are more strictly commercial corridors that line up with the old railroad lines. In many ways, it doesn’t resemble what this Slovakian person describes at all. I grew up in the city and these same suburbs, and so it was a bit of a shock when I became an adult and realized that a lot of people choose to live in suburban development hells way outside of cities, what are essentially exurbs.

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:30 (one week ago) link

I like the idea of a tavern in the garage, and vegetables in the backyard. Perhaps I should be in Slovakia.

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:36 (one week ago) link

tbf you can prob grow vegetables in lots of suburban backyards; that's maybe the least good point, though I think the post is right that many Americans focus far more on their primarily ornamental lawns. My parents had a vegetable garden in the town I grew up in that wasn't really close enough to Chicago to count as a suburb (my dad commuted from where we lived to Niles). But then we moved to a hellish HOA-governed development in a small Georgia city that was more like a metastasized suburb with no urb to be sub of. In that neighborhood the number of paper bag lanterns you had to put on xmas eve was mandated, and no way could you do whatever you wanted with your yard. Anyway, I think it's that contradiction between individualist myth and conformist reality that must be weird to outsiders. And yeah obvs dude wasn't looking at pictures of Evanston, but it's an accurate picture of plenty of other suburbs I've been to

rob, Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:50 (one week ago) link

I grew up in Columbia, MD, which was at least envisioned as a suburb where everything came together like that - sidewalks, walkability, busses, mixed-income and mixed-race neighborhoods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia,_Maryland

No taverns in the garage, as the HOA rules are super-strict. It's not perfect. Anyway, that's why I used to pipe up in defense of suburbs back when iatee would take them to task in the 'classy, icky, or dudes' thread. My experience was of a place that was at least intended to foster community, to an extent. And though we always made fun of it for being sterile and walled-off from real life, I don't think it's nearly as sterile and faceless as a lot of suburbs are.

peace, man, Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:51 (one week ago) link

There are shitty hellhole US suburbs. There are lovely US suburbs that are walkable, with shops and transit. There are US suburbs that fall somewhere in between. The USA spans an entire continent and throws in Alaska and Hawaii for good measure. Everyone's personal experience of the suburbs is completely true, but anecdotal evidence about a place this huge and diverse can only reflect a small slice of reality.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 12 May 2022 16:58 (one week ago) link

thanks for explaining that to us

rob, Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:16 (one week ago) link

yeah, "suburb" as a term is kind of completely meaningless. Evanston is very nice. it's completely the exact opposite of my family's suburb. i'm probably thinking of "dystopia" because it's in the thread title, but i really do think of their suburb as a kind hellish dystopia, very sunbaked and hot, heat on the asphalt, the only people outside are hired yard workers. people open their garages and close them and wear those funny reflective wraparound shades which are the equivalent of their tinted SUV windows. they hide inside the shades inside the car inside the garage inside the mcmansion inside the suburb. that's a suburb to me.

but if you live in a better suburb, one where people are supposed to talk to, you probably have no idea what a rural suburb is because no one does, because you absolutely never go there unless you're invited

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:26 (one week ago) link

maybe that's one indicator - there are suburbs where you're supposed to see people and it's encouraged, and there are suburbs where the entire reason you're there is to shelter yourself from other people

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:28 (one week ago) link

not to derail suburb talk, but feel the need to share this somewhere, the army goes adam curtis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4e0NqyYMw

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:31 (one week ago) link

thanks for explaining that to us

I realize the more valuable contribution to the discussion would have been to explain to people the conclusions they have drawn from their experience of the suburbs are wrong, because it conflicts with my own experience of the suburbs, but I went with saying everyone was right instead. Sorry.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:34 (one week ago) link

I have a friend who just moved to a suburb on a hill, he has a two car garage - the house is probably from the early 70s, and all you need is a morning shot of a paperboy on his bike to realize that you're about to be in Poltergeist 5: The Final Reckoning or something like that, it's some dystopian Spielberg shit

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:43 (one week ago) link

growing up as a weird art kid in a cookiecutter American suburb i was very tempted by the smug "look at these boring suburban drones in their endless sterile houses, how i pity them" mindset, until the day i realized that i myself was not an empty drone, therefore the other people around me must not all be like that either. i may not ever meet all of them, but it doesnt mean i should assume that behind every door is an soulless whitebread lame-o. ive gone on to live in big cities where i've met incredibly boring empty conformist nonpeople, and also lived in suburbs where my neighbors have been artists and musicians and very interesting people. obviously there are many brutal & valid critiques of the suburban concept as it currently exists in the USA, but on a human level doing the "people in suburbs are boring bc their houses & lawns all look the same" thing as an adult is a dud imo.

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:43 (one week ago) link

also LOL at a redditor asking "what do you actually do? are you always stuck inside"

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:51 (one week ago) link

the army goes adam curtis

i saw that and couldn't help but think that vid wasn't put together by active members of the psyops division of the army, but was the product of some high-priced talent earning 100x what the kids they're recruiting will get paid.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:57 (one week ago) link

xpost Well, there might be some suburbs - thinking Phoenix or Las Vegas in August - where there's not much else you can do but hide inside

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 May 2022 17:58 (one week ago) link

ime there's the 1950s-model suburb (like I grew up in in the '70s) that does tend to have sidewalks and - at least in the old days - kids on the street, and which can have a lively vibe, at least sporadically. Then there's today's-model suburb that is about exclusion, separation, and very concerned about "security." The fact that the middle class has been split up between people who can afford to buy a house and those who can't exacerbates the trend toward class separation.

Josefa, Thursday, 12 May 2022 18:39 (one week ago) link

In Intruder in the Dust, Faulkner uses the word "demiurban." It was the first time I saw that word and I think it is useful.

One could use demiurban for the dense / pedestrian-friendly / mass transit-served burb, and exurban for the spread-out / sprawly / car-dependent kind. But perhaps it doesn't matter and is a vanity exercise to begin with; probably none of it is defensible or sustainable. feel free to disregard it as (our old pal) narcissism of small differences

may the florist be with you (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 12 May 2022 20:40 (one week ago) link

It may not be sustainable but I see no sign of it slowing down.. if anything, the exurbs are rapidly growing here in the Bay Area. If one wants a four bedroom/3 bath that looks like the Hotel California, it's probably going to be built in the furthest outer suburbs, i.e. Tracy, Modesto, Los Banos, even Fresno which is three hours away. And there's a whole bunch of people that do this commute every day, which is just soul-crushing to me, but it works for them

That, to me, is dystopia

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 12 May 2022 21:16 (one week ago) link

Woah, wikipedia:

The first recorded usage of the term in English, was by John Wycliffe in 1380, when the form subarbis was used, according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 May 2022 21:20 (one week ago) link

In my condo unit in the middle of sunbaked Florida, and in the miles of subdivisions I walk through and past every morning, I do see kids shooting hoops and neighbors talking to each other and the occasional guy in a Moe's or Chipotle uniform smoking a joint in his car or on the stoop.

The problem is the car. Suburbs and exurbs depend on cars; they want you to drive them, everywhere.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 12 May 2022 21:22 (one week ago) link

So your answer to the thread question is YES

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Thursday, 12 May 2022 22:02 (one week ago) link

YES.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 May 2022 00:20 (one week ago) link

Having grown up in a variety of suburbs across the country and now living in the Chicago 'suburb' so oft referenced itt today, the latter is definitely the preferable option on every front. All the amenities, directly adjacent to the urb to which it is sub (like literally walking distance), no need for a car. I guess if you're way into having a big house and a big yard and shit like that it's maybe worth a three hour daily commute but that seems like a waking nightmare to me, idk.

Well, to be frank, many of the people making the specific 3-hour commute mentioned above didn’t choose it, but were forced into it by the retrograde NIMBYism of Bay Area development laws, foreign real estate speculation, and price gouging thanks to the influx of tech money into the area. I will be absolutely frank and say that the tech industry ruined the most beautiful metropolitan area of the US, and that there are many people who agree with me and won’t ever forgive the cultureless asshats who now stroll along Valencia Street.

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Friday, 13 May 2022 12:38 (one week ago) link

Like I know several people who are teachers who commute to San Francisco from Tracy. Hell, my partner and I have joked about moving back and trying to find a place in Vacaville just to be close to the places and people that made us who we are.

That said, outside of that specific metro, I’d agree with you— it never made sense to me that someone woild want to live hours away from their job just to have a bigger house or more land, unless one was really into horses or farming or something, and that’s another exception to a general rule.

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Friday, 13 May 2022 12:42 (one week ago) link

Calling Evanston a suburb is like calling Oakland a suburb. I don’t usually think of suburbs as places very well served by public transit, with actual downtowns.

I did used to work in SF with a guy who commuted daily from Sacramento. He was a Salvadorean Jehovahs Witness. We all went out to his place in Sacto for Thanksgiving one time, it was typical ranch-style sprawl there.

recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Friday, 13 May 2022 12:57 (one week ago) link

Given the Chicagoland angle this discussion has taken, I'll chime in. I live in Kenosha, WI, which is a city in its own right but also a suburb/bedroom community for both Chicago and Milwaukee. It has its own USian dystopic suburban hellscape sections, and the townships around it have even more of those due to lax or nonexistent zoning and planning regulations. Much of it is so depressing I can't believe anyone lives there. Central Kenosha is quite walkable, nice and affordable by comparison, although there is no full service grocery in the central area, that's about the only missing amenity.


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