is calling someone a 'Karen' inherently sexist?

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I understand "Karen" came to epitomize a white woman using her privilege to cause undue harm to a minority, usually by unnecessarily calling the police or fabricating claims against them. recently, some in my circle have suggested that "Karen" is inherently a sexist term to shut women down - that while acknowledging that's not how it originated in use, that it's now lobbed at women indiscriminately to get them to shut up, and that the well is poisoned and the term is sexist because of the evolution of its usage, and the fact that there isn't a "male" version of the term (though isn't "Ken" emerging as the male version?).

and then I've seen others argue that it is a term that should be reserved for BIPOC to use, not for white individuals against other white individuals.

these are all interesting points, and one reason I've backed off using the term, but curious what the ILX hive mind thinks

Poll Results

OptionVotes
No, it's not - it's intended for a specific archetype that uses their privilege for racist purposes 30
It's not so simple - it might be, but it depends on context 20
Yes, it's sexist and used to silence women 15
Other 4


Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 14:27 (ten months ago) link

As long as it remains confined to the US it's no concern of mine. Also my sister is called Karen.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 14:34 (ten months ago) link

Got to be weird if your first name becomes a slur.

earlnash, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 14:35 (ten months ago) link

At least the heat is off the Alexas.

maf you one two (maffew12), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 14:36 (ten months ago) link

I work in customer service and I am against using "Karen" as a pejorative. It is sexist in the sense that people often use it to mean "(white) woman whom I don't like / who is complaining too much." The "reserved for BIPOC people to use" stance is weak af.

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:09 (ten months ago) link

I first heard of this phenomena when working in hospitality in Liverpool but said women were referred to as Susans. I think Susan fits better but Karen has taken over. Unless Susans are a different thing specific to hospitality

ignore the blue line (or something), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:10 (ten months ago) link

Contemplating the male analog of the Karen, I know "Chad" gets thrown around a lot but I don't think that name has taken on all the associations and/or doesn't totally fit.

Then thinking about...what are the equivalent racist behaviors shown by white men against non-white people? And I'm afraid the answer is direct physical violence and murder. As far as I can think of, we haven't assigned a jokey nickname for that and I don't think anyone should.

So I'm not sure "Karen" as a category for white women who try to use the violence of the white supremacist state against non-white people is _sexist_ exactly. It's probably problematic but for other reasons.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:13 (ten months ago) link

Susans were generally white, 40+ and had severe bob haircuts and would want to speak to the manager over some perceived slight, maybe different to Karens as race never came into it xp

ignore the blue line (or something), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:14 (ten months ago) link

I mean debatably we shouldn't have a jokey nickname for white women who attempt second-hand violence and murder either. Idk

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:15 (ten months ago) link

white women who try to use the violence of the white supremacist state against non-white people

Is this really how people use "Karen" though? And even then, there are way better words you can use to call out racist behavior. IME it feels like people use "Karen" as a veiled way of saying "b*tch"

xp in orbit OTM

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:18 (ten months ago) link

It is sexist in the sense that people often use it to mean "(white) woman whom I don't like / who is complaining too much."

otm. although it might have originated referring to the phenomenon of white women harassing POC, in my experience hearing people use it IRL it is fully divorced from any racial connotations and become more closely associated with the blanket concept of complaining/asserting. I hear people using it to describe antimaskers making a scene in public, and also saying things like "i insist people wear a mask in my home, i'm a real 'karen' about it".

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:24 (ten months ago) link

tbh ive been kind of shocked to hear this gendered pejorative being uncritically embraced by many people in my life who are otherwise fully on board with extremely strict language policing

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:27 (ten months ago) link

yeah there was another component of it too, the affluent white woman who screamed and yelled at a restaurant's manager about frivolous banalities or demanded service after the restaurant closed, stuff like that.

i started to see more of the racial implications of it used after George Floyd, i.e. the woman who fabricated an physical abuse claim against a Black couple that she had actually been harassing, and called the cops on them. or the woman who told a Black man that she was going to call the cops on him and emphasize his race as a not-very veiled threat.

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:28 (ten months ago) link

I've seen a proposal that a younger version of a Karen is a Becky, and an older version is a Susan. I've also seen Greg proposed as the male equivalent.

jaymc, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:30 (ten months ago) link

i've heard 'karen' with kind of a classist tinge iirc..

this makes me a not-perfect person but i have slurs that are ok to use, slurs that aren't ok to use. generally if they're punching up they're ok. 'karen' is complicated because it's a little from column a, a little from column b. an intersectional mean word if you will. 'bitch' is also one that's interesting because as a gay man i have a little bit of a different thing going on with it. i will use it in reference to other men but i'm really hesitant to think it or say it to myself in regards to a woman. i'm not free from the ambient misogyny that we all swim in and sometimes i'm not perfect. i'm still not sure if people's attitudes change when words become off-limits or if words stop being used when people's attitudes change tbr. but that's not the most important thing i guess, it's making it so that traumatized people aren't traumatized as much. words really are triggers. honestly calling a man a dick is not great because who's to say what sexualized trauma they may have experienced. of course men must not show any signs of trauma but that's part of the pathology and dynamic. ok done rambling lol.

Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:31 (ten months ago) link

I had a kid call me Karen for telling him to get off a shipping container and stop destroying school property, but I don't necessarily think a disgruntled 14-yo has his finger on the pulse of this sociological phenomenon.

And yeah to my mind, in all the usages I've seen in print (because I can't think of ever hearing anyone I know use it in conversation) it has had racist implications. If I were going for sheer over-entitled difficult customer, you could use "Linda" or "Debbie" or any number of white-coding slightly outdated names that connote a certain economic/cultural status + a certain age.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:32 (ten months ago) link

I hear people using it to describe antimaskers making a scene in public, and also saying things like "i insist people wear a mask in my home, i'm a real 'karen' about it".

It was disorienting to me to see people on Twitter yesterday call our own Joan Crawford Loves Chachi a "Karen" for tweeting at an airline about a pilot making a vaguely antimask remark. Feel like the term is becoming weaponized against anyone who calls someone else out.

jaymc, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:35 (ten months ago) link

Where I grew up every girl named Karen was from a lower socio-economic background so I instinctively find the term quite gross. It certainly doesn't signify 'affluence' or whatever to me.
Interestingly (or not) we've had Sharons and Darrens used as pejoratives when I was growing up.

kinder, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:39 (ten months ago) link

... Traceys? Those are all classist, this Karen thing is too specifically American to fly over here.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:41 (ten months ago) link

... in its original form that is, I suppose I could see it being used for bossy, objectionable women of a certain age and class in the UK.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:42 (ten months ago) link

In my retail experience it was Middle aged men who were more likely to pull the talk to your manager shit, but it was from pure assholish entitlement usually. The Karen often has this gendered vibe of “you are making me feel unsafe by refusing to give me what I want”

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:43 (ten months ago) link

in general i'm opposed to using real names as an insult and associating real names with specific types of conduct - even if people think they're "punching up" or whatever

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:45 (ten months ago) link

xp Yeah I think that last part is exactly accurate, plus that's where the racism surfaces: "I'm pretending I feel unsafe because you're Black when really I'm mad that you didn't do what I want and I can use structural tools & violence to compel and/or punish you."

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:47 (ten months ago) link

Most examples of the usage of Karen I've seen had nothing to do with race.

Evan, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:48 (ten months ago) link

Here in the UK, I don't think that "Karen" particularly implies privileged prejudice against any specific minority groups, but a "Karen" is always white, usually lower middle class. Her classic line is "I want to speak to the manager", and her classic hairstyle is a streaked asymmetric bob. She is mocked for what is seen as a misplaced presumption of privilege/entitlement, and an unnecessarily confrontational manner. It's not a term that I use, or find funny. That said, when I'm DJing, and battling to resist prosecco-fulled demands for Whitney Houston NOW, the word can sometimes flit, unbidden, through my head.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:50 (ten months ago) link

Yeah, these people are thinking of like "permit patty" and "barbecue becky". Karen is for "I want to talk to your manager"/"hey you kids get down off of that thing"/"why are you still lighting fireworks the 4th of july was months ago" people.

peace, man, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:50 (ten months ago) link

it kind of merged with the original def: https://www.vox.com/21317728/karen-meaning-meme-racist-coronavirus

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:52 (ten months ago) link

Her classic line is "I want to speak to the manager", and her classic hairstyle is a streaked asymmetric bob. She is mocked for what is seen as a misplaced presumption of privilege/entitlement, and an unnecessarily confrontational manner.

Yep, this is the usage of "Karen" I'm familiar with. TBH I'm never fazed when someone asks to speak with a manager, it's just part of my job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 15:57 (ten months ago) link

Asymmetric bob really? Thought that was coded as 'alternative' or something (or Fleabag's sister's haircut - is Claire a Karen?)

kinder, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:00 (ten months ago) link

I think calling someone a "Karen" is offensive to women who happened to be named Karen, many of who aren't "Karens" and some who aren't white.

Lee626, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:01 (ten months ago) link

some are not women

The masculine given name Karen derived from the Parthian name of House of Karen (or Caren), one of the seven aristocratic families of ancient Iran.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:07 (ten months ago) link

It was disorienting to me to see people on Twitter yesterday call our own Joan Crawford Loves Chachi a "Karen" for tweeting at an airline about a pilot making a vaguely antimask remark. Feel like the term is becoming weaponized against anyone who calls someone else out.

― jaymc, Tuesday, September 28, 2021 10:35 AM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Between this and Lee's point about how it just kind of sucks if you happen to be named Karen right now, I think it's kind of dead. It may have had its use but its dead now. I have also noticed people using "Karen" from the start of the pandemic to describe anyone leaning toward greater rather than lesser restriction.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:14 (ten months ago) link

xp i was debating whether to write "women" or "people", but couldn't think of any men named Karen; i stand corrected...

Lee626, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:15 (ten months ago) link

The majority of people who ask to see my manager do it because they want a discount. Or they don’t want to pay sales tax.

Notes on Scampo (tokyo rosemary), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:21 (ten months ago) link

I see several "Karen" stories from the last couple of days:

Dog Park Karen tells black couple to "go back to your hood"

Karen boxes in red-light running car and calls cops

Karen is angry that someone left dog in a Tesla

Karen attacks Black men on subway, flicks her blood at bystanders

Karen harasses Black restaurant employees over mask policy

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:26 (ten months ago) link

Karen boxes in red-light running car and calls cops

HERO

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:28 (ten months ago) link

Karen needs to learn about Tesla Dog Mode

Lee626, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:30 (ten months ago) link

I have a racist idiot neighbour who I think of as a total Karen. & seems to be oblivious to rules pertaining to her while she seems to think I should view her as an authority figure. Wish I could go the rest of my life with never seeing her again. Set up of the entrance to my flat doesn't make that very easy.

Also did an Irish class with a person called karen who seemed to fit the term all too well.

BUt can see why a name that has been popular becoming derogatory in that way is problematic. & do know some pretty decent Karens.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:34 (ten months ago) link

xps why couldn't "woman" be used in those headlines? probably because everyone loves hearing about the whimsical adventures of this cartoon supervillain, the clicks speak for themselves

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:34 (ten months ago) link

i think one good rule of thumb is that whenever anything becomes big and seems to be going "viral irl" in the united states, whether it's a word like Karen or a certain kind of furniture or pumpkin lattes or just anything that seems to be catching on: don't say it or buy it or do that. don't be like americans

typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:38 (ten months ago) link

it's almost always something that you'll regret later

typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:39 (ten months ago) link

Keep Calm and Chive On!

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:42 (ten months ago) link

This thread is a de facto terrible idea

talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:46 (ten months ago) link

I think it's understandable to want to tease out some strand of The Discourse and take the general temperature of the room but "Overwhelmingly white audience, how do we feel about a term used to criticize us by non-white people when we racially profile them" is something I think you all should avoid doing

talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:48 (ten months ago) link

agreed. But this is also about white people using the term for whatever purposes. For instance, in the story about the Karen and the dog in the Tesla, both the dog owner and the person who wrote the article are white. The Karen's race is not specified.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 16:56 (ten months ago) link

the story about the Karen and the dog in the Tesla

i am not going to look this up and just accept my own version of what happened

typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:00 (ten months ago) link

(the person and their tesla careened off of a cliff while playing chicken with some local tuffs, but the dog easily jumped out of the backseat window just in time, then was quickly adopted and moved into their forever home)

typo hell #5: maybe you get an idea of what went into, or (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:02 (ten months ago) link

Fwiw, for background, I was regularly using the term, moreso after the meme morphed from "lady with haircut complains/demands" to include Permit Patty, etc. two very feminist (and yes, admittedly, white) friends then tried to urge their friends to stop using this sexist term to silence other females.

I felt conflicted because I couldn't tell if where they were coming from was a) now everybody, regardless of race, is calling women 'Karen' for acting a way they don't like, and it's muddied the original usage of the word b) there are other ways to describe it who are better or c) if I myself was misunderstanding what a "Karen" was, because I was under the impression that it was being used as to clap back at the white, privileged folk who were using their whiteness to harm and malign BIPOC, and it felt very odd to me to be saying we should stop *that* behavior. one of said friends above relented a bit when someone pointed this out to her.

it seems itt there is similar confusion amongst many of us. but I don't want to have a poll that causes discomfort or the optics described above, so I am fine with locking it if that's what is preferred.

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:08 (ten months ago) link

*that are better

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:09 (ten months ago) link

a term used to criticize us by non-white people when we racially profile them

this is not the exclusive, or even most common, way that "Karen" is used

aegis philbin (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:17 (ten months ago) link

Especially my sister.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 18:40 (ten months ago) link

lotta karens in here trying to shut down this thread

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:02 (ten months ago) link

What if your name is bogart, that's no fun either

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:07 (ten months ago) link

My grandad's name was Wally, not sure how he felt about it becoming an insult in 80s Britain.

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:17 (ten months ago) link

We could call them cops instead, but that's offensive to people named Cop

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:19 (ten months ago) link

Theres a pinpoint of discussion available about the term or the intent being the truer source of offence if truer is even the measure but even pinpoint may be optimistic, or at least in most if not all online fora as opposed to between individuals interested in chasing the conversation to any kind of shared end maybe

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:22 (ten months ago) link

Luckily, Steve Urkel was always referred to by his last name, or that one would be the new Nerd.

... (Eazy), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:26 (ten months ago) link

It's funny now to think how Bruce signified a gay man in the 1970s. That one didn't stick.

... (Eazy), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:30 (ten months ago) link

I've seen a proposal that a younger version of a Karen is a Becky, and an older version is a Susan. I've also seen Greg proposed as the male equivalent.

― jaymc, Tuesday, September 28, 2021 11:30 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

great to see the karen cinematic universe expanding! do you think any of them are gonna date :o

, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:39 (ten months ago) link

I do feel bad for the two karens I've known, both of whom are the complete opposite of the stereotype and neither white

, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:41 (ten months ago) link

I mean, just imagine the discomfort giving your own name with a Starbucks order. That's some bullshit.

... (Eazy), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:45 (ten months ago) link

Feel like karen is going the way of bacon and made of win and you, sir, have won the internet tbqh.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 19:49 (ten months ago) link

It's funny now to think how Bruce signified a gay man in the 1970s

My jerk stepdad carried this well into the 80s, pronouncing it 'Brewth' for extra emphasis

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 20:10 (ten months ago) link

David Bruce Banner

Stevolende, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 20:16 (ten months ago) link

they're not booing, they're saying breeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwth

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 20:18 (ten months ago) link

Clarence was used in the same way in the Twenties.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 20:57 (ten months ago) link

To me it’s obviously sexist - its acceptable use among people otherwise ashamed to be sexist, is applied to people whose behaviour is worse than sexism. But it’s clearly casting women as strident and insistent on their perceived rights, the familiar “shrill” denigration. If someone is being racist or flexing privilege, just call it that.

assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 21:34 (ten months ago) link

the fact that "Karen" took off so easily as an insult for a certain type of woman, but there's no male equivalent despite men being equally reprehensible towards staff in public-facing roles, says so much about the way insults are gendered.

In the shop I worked in until fairly recently, if a customer wanted to speak to a manager, we didn't refer to them as a "Karen" but we did joke "you'll know who she is, she's got the haircut."

boxedjoy, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 21:52 (ten months ago) link

I mean, I live in a cave but ime it’s women calling other women Karen, and I don’t know if that’s sexist. But yeah dudes calling other women “karen” is pretty sexist, yeah.

brimstead, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 22:14 (ten months ago) link

when it's just a stand-in for "shrill," it's sexist whoever it's coming from

if someone is being racist or flexing privilege, just call it that

...but agree with this. karen's become some a catch-all-insult (like, i guess, "mansplainer") that i imagine it would be super easy to dismiss being called a karen. racists will always hate the hell out of being called a racist, though.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 22:17 (ten months ago) link

It's funny now to think how Bruce signified a gay man in the 1970s. That one didn't stick.

It signified an Australian in most of the Anglosphere, I believe.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 22:56 (ten months ago) link

... the rest of the Anglosphere, that is.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 22:57 (ten months ago) link

Sheila being the female equivalent of course!

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 22:59 (ten months ago) link

So it seems random names get associated with various characters and change over time? Susan? Wally? Bruce? I've never heard of any of those signifying anything specific.

Lee626, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:08 (ten months ago) link

you really have to read the silmarillion to get all of the lore

, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:10 (ten months ago) link

Just ask any Tom, Dick or Harry

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:11 (ten months ago) link

It's funny now to think how Bruce signified a gay man in the 1970s. That one didn't stick.

― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, September 28, 2021 3:30 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Clarence was used in the same way in the Twenties.

― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, September 28, 2021 4:57 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

what about steven, roy, garry, danny and max?

, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:11 (ten months ago) link

Adam and Steve.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:12 (ten months ago) link

'Guido' is another one: actual name, slur, and perhaps also reclaimed as a self-identifier

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 23:16 (ten months ago) link

“Karen” has always seemed to me to be fairly straightforward coding for “bitch” so ahma say yes in principle but not in action the the thread q.

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 September 2021 02:19 (ten months ago) link

"Bruce" for Australian came from Monty Python iirc

assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 29 September 2021 02:44 (ten months ago) link

Possibly but I suspect it existed before that.

Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 September 2021 06:54 (ten months ago) link

Overwhelmingly white audience, how do we feel about a term used to criticize us by non-white people when we racially profile them" is something I think you all should avoid doing

― talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Tuesday, September 28, 2021 9:48 AM (yesterday)

yeahhhh this thread makes me uncomfortable for that reason. Though maybe some ilxors live in homogenous places or for whatever reason, the use of the term that they see most often has no racial implications or connections? I don't want to be a jerk, but, my experience is, I see it mainly used in the original sense, or close enough to it? Mostly it's a black person calling out a white woman.

sarahell, Thursday, 30 September 2021 06:24 (ten months ago) link

You live in the US, most of the world doesn't.

Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 September 2021 08:22 (ten months ago) link

It's a US term and the ppl using it outside of the US are mostly aware of its US-specific racial implications imo.

Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 30 September 2021 09:40 (ten months ago) link

I don't know because I don't know who's using it or even if it's being used.

Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 September 2021 09:55 (ten months ago) link

I mean, I'm sure it is being used but whether it's being used correctly I'm somewhat less sure about.

Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 September 2021 09:59 (ten months ago) link

This is what Karen discourse looks like on the normie internet
https://www.thedaddest.com/trending/karens-acted-entitled-fb/1/

for christ's sake put on adblock and open in a private window if you actually click this garbage.

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 30 September 2021 10:08 (ten months ago) link

let me know if we get this one sorted out

mens rea activist (k3vin k.), Thursday, 30 September 2021 11:44 (ten months ago) link

ok Kevin

calzino, Thursday, 30 September 2021 11:49 (ten months ago) link

let me know if we get this one sorted out

― mens rea activist (k3vin k.), Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:44 AM (one hour ago)

otm -- I'm outta here

sarahell, Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:01 (ten months ago) link

It's pretty obvious that half this thread understood the term differently. Idk why we're pretending these posters are being disingenuous but w/e.

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:13 (ten months ago) link

Lock request is in cos this isn't productive

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:16 (ten months ago) link

Xpost who am I kidding of course I know why lol

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:16 (ten months ago) link

How did you envision this thread going?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:31 (ten months ago) link

Lock request is in cos this isn't productive

― Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, September 30, 2021 9:16 AM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Asking to speak to the manager now are you

, Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:38 (ten months ago) link

since we've now reached the "I'm going to ignore the actual shit that was posted in the thread and assume bad faith" portion of the thread, as I explained earlier...

1) I have several feminist friends who very much consider themselves allies that were asking people to stop using this term because it was sexist and used to shut down women

2) this seemed odd to me because I had felt the utility of the term was calling out people using their privilege to actively harm BIPOC, and it didn't seem that these friends of mine would want to shut THAT down

3) so I thought maybe the issue is that the term was being used indiscriminately and the well had been poisoned and it was being used to basically attack women and nothing else

4) or that perhaps it was a term that we as allies shouldn't use, and reserve it for BIPOC to use.

5) then it emerged that some people ITT didn't think that's what Karen meant at all

6) I posted this which actually pointed out that the original meaning of "Karen" changed a lot, and nobody engaged with it at all: https://www.vox.com/21317728/karen-meaning-meme-racist-coronavirus

7) DJP posted a good post about how the thread was coming across and how it was a bad idea. i hoped people would engage with it, and few if anybody did.

8) it then moved to light j'accuse

delete thread, account, dn, i don't care

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:40 (ten months ago) link

xpost

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:40 (ten months ago) link

but if it makes you feel better to think I deliberately created this for LOLs and clusterfuckery, hey, whatever

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:41 (ten months ago) link

(for the record i've never denied that my understanding of the term squared w/ the racial usage, but it was clear itt that other people had never understood it that way, or that we were conflating "Karen" with another term, which peace, man even addressed)

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Thursday, 30 September 2021 13:42 (ten months ago) link


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