Defenestrate Them All: Canadian Politics 2021

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This definitely clears things up for Ontario:

NEW: The Premier’s Office has sent out an FAQ about yesterday’s stay-at-home announcement in Ontario. Answers below 👇🏼#onpoli

— Laura Stone (@l_stone) January 13, 2021

Sharp! Distance! (Sund4r), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 16:50 (three months ago) link

Basically, they are not defining anything but I think this still holds true from yesterday?: "The province will provide authority to all provincial offences officers, including the Ontario Provincial Police, local police forces, bylaw officers, and provincial workplace inspectors to issue tickets to individuals who do not comply with the stay-at-home-order..." It just seems like delegating all judgment to the police? How did they manage to make this even less coherent?

Sharp! Distance! (Sund4r), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 16:51 (three months ago) link

o m g. Forget that generous feeling I mentioned yesterday. That is really bad.

Kim, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 16:56 (three months ago) link

You can envision, when this ends, a court system backed up for years litigating the meaning of "unique circumstances" and "may legitimately be necessary."

clemenza, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 16:59 (three months ago) link

seems very easy for police to apply these guidelines in unequal ways

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 19:42 (three months ago) link

“Police have also been authorized to shoot offenders,” Ford mumbled wistfully.

Guys don’t @ me because I tazed my own balls alright? (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 19:53 (three months ago) link

to follow up on doofusy tweets by leaders of the CPC:

I don’t think Canada needs another slogan, it needs a plan. Do you agree?

We need to build back stronger, and the only way that can happen is with a united country. 🇨🇦

— Erin O'Toole (@erinotoole) October 1, 2020

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 20:39 (three months ago) link

I remember people sharing this piece in 2015 and thinking it was dubious since a Tory advertising strategy v clearly was then and is now to portray Trudeau as a "vapid...airhead", as per that ad (and, er, slogan): . That said, the fact that this strategy has yet to find success might prove her right idk.

Sharp! Distance! (Sund4r), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 20:46 (three months ago) link

sean gramophone, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 20:47 (three months ago) link

really doubt those "nice hair" ads shifted a single vote

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 21:10 (three months ago) link

That O’Toole tweet is pretty interesting in light of all the recent fringey freak outs over politicians using the almost same phrase “build back better” as some coded globalist conspiracy about “the great reset”.

Kim, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:36 (three months ago) link

build back better = evil, globalist, pedo ring

build back stronger = good common sense, a plan not a slogan, Canada first

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:54 (three months ago) link

I don't think Canada needs another slogan! It needs three new slogans! Take that, Canada!

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:55 (three months ago) link

“Canada needs a handyman” you expect the guy in the photo to be Mike Holmes.

Kim, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 23:39 (three months ago) link

Yeah, at the risk of giving the Tories a better campaign idea, what's funny is that he could have made it "Canada needs a captain" or "Canada needs a pilot" and made a reference to his actually respectable air force career. Instead he concluded that pretending to be Bob the Builder is the ticket to victory.

Sharp! Distance! (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 00:47 (three months ago) link

The right O'Toole for the job!

doug watson, Thursday, 14 January 2021 01:16 (three months ago) link

OK, here's the actual stay-at-home order. The announcements had been written badly but it seems like getting curbside pickup is OK: . I'm not sure what the difference from the previous lockdown is.

Sharp! Distance! (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 01:47 (three months ago) link

Erin "o'Toole Man" Taylor

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 January 2021 02:43 (three months ago) link

Hm, if this is accurate, maybe school closures are more justified than I thought tbh (URL does not describe comments - a new U de M study finds that elementary schools are a driving factor behind the spread of COVID in Montreal):

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 04:16 (three months ago) link

Yeah, it's worth bringing that article up again since the 2020 thread is now closed.

I don't know about Ontario or even the rest of Quebec, to be honest, but closing schools anew would certainly be justified in Montreal right now. I suspect we'll hit a new hospitalization peak in the coming days. As soon as it subsides, Legault will claim victory and argue that keeping schools open was the right call. A couple of weeks later, we'll be back to square one and he'll be forced to implement even stricter lockdown measures. It seems to me that his strategy is reactive rather than proactive, partly because the general population prefers it that way (it makes the decision-making process more 'legible', as it were, and seeing is believing). Regardless, I do hope to be proven wrong.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 04:45 (three months ago) link

Oh ha, did you already share it? I just saw it tonight, my bad.

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 05:09 (three months ago) link

Warning: National Post, but I can't find another English source for this atm.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:38 (three months ago) link

Does it make a difference that he's not an elected official?

jmm, Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:53 (three months ago) link

I think it does, it's just that CBC/Radio-Canada have been campaigning against non-essential travel for months now.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 15:56 (three months ago) link

There's a rep for the small-business association who appears on a London radio station regularly. She was just on and quite upset. I've heard her many times and trust the accuracy of what she says. 1) With the 8:00 curbside pickup rule in effect, Amazon is allowed to deliver after 8:00 p.m. (not sure if they actually do that) while small-business owners are not allowed to personally run over a delivery after their stores close; 2) Walmart and Costco are still allowed to stay open after 8:00 p.m. as long as they meet the 50% food threshold (maybe I have the number wrong--that seems high).

clemenza, Thursday, 14 January 2021 18:33 (three months ago) link

Setting an 8:00 pm limit does seem a bit like a very soft curfew, and I don't know that I see the point of those, but it also seems relatively generous for most small businesses, I think?

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 18:48 (three months ago) link

I think it's more the two sets of rules than the curfew itself. As she put it, the government--and she urged the host to get someone on to explain their reasoning--has opted for one side.

clemenza, Thursday, 14 January 2021 18:50 (three months ago) link

It might be possible that the 8pm curbside rule is meant to target some specific kind of nightlife or gatherings using it as a loophole, maybe culturally linked, so they don’t want to say it explicitly. It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense otherwise.

Kim, Thursday, 14 January 2021 20:20 (three months ago) link

That's how I understand it as well. Maybe it's also a way to minimize the devil-may-care side effects of late night alcohol/drug use.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 20:23 (three months ago) link

This is such a fucking dumb gamble, I'm honestly livid right now:

The WHO is against it and Pfizer-BioNTech threatened to withdraw their vaccine supply from Quebec if we don't follow the two-dose schedule yet they're going with their moronic gut feeling anyway.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 22:12 (three months ago) link

I can't take this government anymore.

I couldn't before the pandemic. Now it's becoming irrational.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 14 January 2021 22:38 (three months ago) link

I'm the same, and there's nothing irrational about it! I cut Legault a fuckton of slack last year but his last few calls are indefensible given how poorly things are going. We're about to overtake France's no. of deaths/1M pop, ffs!

Fwiw my dad works in the healthcare sector and I think this dicey 90-day lag between doses just broke him.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 22:44 (three months ago) link

Why would they do this? Just bc they can give out first doses to more people this way?

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 January 2021 22:44 (three months ago) link

Yes, except it's not much of a mid- to long-term plan for the province. The feds are saying we shouldn't wait more than 42 days before administering the second dose. Legault wants more than double that, with precious little to back him up.

pomenitul, Thursday, 14 January 2021 22:47 (three months ago) link

I do not share any of the outrage about this! Loads of epidemiologists and virologists agree that "first doses first" might be the best plan, and Biden (and the UK) have both advanced similar proposals. Basically, there is disagreement in the scientific community. Accordingly, I am comfortable with elected government making informed choices. I think I agree with them that generalized immunity for more people is more important than total immunity for a smaller population at this point.

Pfizer-BioNTech did not "threaten" the government - Legault was asked what he would do if they made a threat like that and he said of course the government would comply.

sean gramophone, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:10 (three months ago) link

My wording was indeed off. This is what I was referring to:

Anyhow, suit yourself. It goes without saying that I am not a medical expert myself, but I will continue to trust my dad, an infectious diseases specialist, in this matter. Perhaps the government's little experiment will pay off, perhaps it will backfire. Time will tell. Either way, we are essentially being used as guinea pigs right now, and it's not something I am at all comfortable with seeing as official recommendations are being flouted.

pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:27 (three months ago) link

Canada's National Advisory Committee believes that the second dose can be delayed for up to six weeks:

Between six weeks and 90 days, the difference is rather stark.

pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:31 (three months ago) link

(The UK's doing 12 weeks too.)

sean gramophone, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:33 (three months ago) link

Just some more perspective on the amount of debate:

Will delay of the 2nd dose of vaccines promote virus resistance? @meredithwadman w/ @florian_krammer @PaulBieniasz @jbloom_lab @sarahcobey
Debated here, mostly likely no.
There's also a case for stronger immune response by delay, not discussed/studied

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) January 14, 2021

sean gramophone, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:34 (three months ago) link

Good for them? Their handling of the pandemic has been absolutely atrocious so far.


pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:34 (three months ago) link

Which vaccine are we talking about by the way?

Because this article (from yesterday) suggests that 'spacing out doses of the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine may be more effective at protecting people':

That may well be true, but to my knowledge we haven't even approved that one yet.

pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:40 (three months ago) link

See also (from last week):

pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 01:41 (three months ago) link

The plot thickens...

pomenitul, Friday, 15 January 2021 15:53 (three months ago) link

Ontario mess made the WaPo.

The stuff with Baber up in York is really bad news for Ford I think. That letter is reinforcing a lot of anti lockdown arguments that sound reasonable to a lot of people, notably from the c2c article that’s gone viral amongst conservatives lately. The false premises in it require too sophisticated a takedown to easily counter. Baber is being called a hero and a whistleblower. ffs. Ford’s original support is very fractured and a large portion has observably moved farther right, and while that could be an exploitable political weakness, I still find it ominous and upsetting.

Kim, Saturday, 16 January 2021 15:44 (three months ago) link

I ran into a neighbour while out walking yesterday and asked him about my coffee question above. Which I know seems utterly insignificant, but, as I explained to him, it has next to nothing to do with coffee--obviously, I can make that at home. It’s much more about simply going in there; if you’re on your own during one of these lockdowns, many days that’ll be the only interaction you have with anyone that doesn’t take place on a computer screen. To that end, I thought his idea for what I should say if I ever got questioned was pretty sensible, seeing as “essential” has been deemed to vary from person to person: call it a mental-health issue.

Turns out be nothing anyway. The only two cops here come in from Stratford; they work out of the municipal building that’s a few dozen steps around the corner from Tim’s. There’s usually a car parked outside, so last night I just asked the guy. I don’t think he answered immediately--there was a slight pause, like he wasn’t sure either--but he said it was fine. Which means, for me, there’s no change at all that I can think of between now and what was already in place as of Boxing Day. And I don’t see that there will be, for me, until and unless schools reopen.

clemenza, Saturday, 16 January 2021 16:44 (three months ago) link

What do we make of Blanchet's comments on Alghabra? "His ties to the political Islamic movement raise questions" is vague and almost seems like innuendo, although I wonder if there's some context I'm missing.

On Twitter, he mostly also seems to be avoiding saying anything direct but shares articles like this, which, despite its, uh, questionable take, does at least specify what he might be taking issue with (the group's, acc to the author, anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian leanings and ostensible support of Hamas):

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Sunday, 17 January 2021 03:35 (three months ago) link

I wonder if there's some context I'm missing.

The context is dogwhistling. Blanchet is said to have taken his cue from 'Rebel News', as it's now called:

pomenitul, Sunday, 17 January 2021 03:51 (three months ago) link

Really, though, it's just a racist procès d'intention and Lisée is now trying to put some flesh on it.

pomenitul, Sunday, 17 January 2021 03:56 (three months ago) link

Huh, "Biden indicates plans to cancel Keystone XL pipeline permit on 1st day in office, sources confirm":

Inside there's a box and that box has another box within (Sund4r), Monday, 18 January 2021 18:23 (three months ago) link

My wife's very happy about that.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 18 January 2021 18:43 (three months ago) link

Also, why are Quebec City people like this

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 22:50 (four days ago) link

Amos did not immediately respond to questions as to why he was naked in his office at a time when he was supposed to be attending parliamentary proceedings.

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 15 April 2021 00:29 (three days ago) link

Haha what

G&M is paywalled. What is the gist?

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 15 April 2021 14:25 (three days ago) link

Does this work?

pomenitul, Thursday, 15 April 2021 14:30 (three days ago) link

Yes thx

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 15 April 2021 14:33 (three days ago) link

Apparently, we have scientists in this country that don't understand the concept of community mitigation

Punster McPunisher, Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:14 (three days ago) link

A friend last week predicted we'd hit 10,000 daily cases in Ontario before things settled down. I thought he was crazy, and I still can't see it. But we're just shy of 5,000 today.

clemenza, Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:34 (three days ago) link

wow the antivaxx passport is a new level of stupidity

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:47 (three days ago) link

Looks like we're plateauing around 1,500 in Quebec right now, which honestly doesn't seem so bad – we've seen much, much worse. It's sad to see Ontario cases spike every other day, though. Perhaps something more stringent than a non-binding (correct me if I'm wrong) stay-at-home order will be required?

pomenitul, Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:49 (three days ago) link

we got an emergency text saying "stay home, it's the law" - not sure why that didn't fix everything

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:53 (three days ago) link

I need Doug to show up at my door and convince me to stay home.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 15 April 2021 15:58 (three days ago) link

Only if he says 'pretty please?'

pomenitul, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:00 (three days ago) link

I still don't stay home in the literal sense, but 99% of my time outside is just walking with no one near. I'd estimate 5-10 minutes a day (getting coffee, supermarket, post office) within range of anyone else.

clemenza, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:02 (three days ago) link

(And we're back down to two active cases in St. Marys.)

clemenza, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:03 (three days ago) link

You shouldn't let your guard down, of course, but I wouldn't be worried at all if I were you.

pomenitul, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:05 (three days ago) link

I never really have been through this whole thing, a luxury I've been granted because of where I am. Right now, I'm not sure if it's more depressing on nice days or dreary ones. I suggested to someone last week that nice days were the worst--if it's dreary you don't want to go out anyway, and walking around on a beautiful day with mostly empty streets feels so wrong--but then there'll be a cool, drizzly day like today and I think, "No, this is much worse."

clemenza, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:11 (three days ago) link

Don't worry, Ontario, Newfoundland is here with unspecified assistance!

Hahaha wow, thanks, folks - our team needed that laugh for a minute today. And this is why you don't do social media in a hurry... clearly we were on speaker, and just about to head off to the COVID briefing. 😅

— Andrew Furey (@FureyAndrew) April 14, 2021

Goof took the bait from people fussing about the phone screen being on.

maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:15 (three days ago) link

... he isn't known to be deaf. Anyways.

maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:16 (three days ago) link

more lockdown restrictions coming for Ontario tomorrow bc the Ford gov't still doesn't fucking get it

the restrictions won't be "paid sick leave and a competent vaccine rollout" i'm guessing

self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Thursday, 15 April 2021 20:16 (three days ago) link

Very curious--what else can they do?

I assume grocery stores or take-out at restaurants (which I do two or three times a week) won't be affected. A curfew? I'd hate the symbolism, although personally, it wouldn't affect me much--I'd bump my evening walk by a couple of hours. I was supposed to golf next week; I guess they could shut that down, even though I don't remember any reports of golf-course spread.

You're right, of course; vaccinations. I stumbled onto a booking yesterday through sheer chance, a random post in a town FB group; it's chaotic figuring out what to do.

clemenza, Thursday, 15 April 2021 20:26 (three days ago) link

Going back to the 8pm curfew has been brutal.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 16 April 2021 00:01 (two days ago) link

I was just complaining about this to a friend who lives in NY and he was just like ‘sorry you have a responsible government’. Point taken, although it requires extra caveats to thoroughly land.

pomenitul, Friday, 16 April 2021 00:31 (two days ago) link

This story seems... odd:

@CBCNews has learned from sources with knowledge of the request, that @fordnation asked @jkenney for healthcare workers to send to #Ontario for help with their #COVID19 surge. #Alberta has not made any committments. A request was also made of @PremierScottMoe

— Kathleen Petty (@kathleen_petty) April 15, 2021

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 16 April 2021 01:40 (two days ago) link

This is rather stunning, even making allowances for alarmism-sells:

I said just above that I've never really been worried, and that's true--never enough to ground myself--but that does make you want to barricade yourself at home.

clemenza, Friday, 16 April 2021 01:51 (two days ago) link

The government has provided data on workplace clusters in Fraser Health and Coastal Health since the start of February.

The information is quite interesting!

Fraser Health = spread out, but manufacturing the biggest

Coastal Health = HEAVILY bars and restaurants

— Justin McElroy (@j_mcelroy) April 15, 2021

Some people are thinking the "other" category is because the government is hiding something.

To be clear, this is my extrapolation of the data provided to try and highlight the most interesting things as estimates.

Here is the raw charts.

— Justin McElroy (@j_mcelroy) April 15, 2021

afaik BC has never released this kind of info on where outbreaks were happening. Can see why they decided to shut down indoor dining.

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Friday, 16 April 2021 02:24 (two days ago) link

This data should've been released way before, specially since there will always be, on average, a two-week lag due to onset of symptoms.

In places with high transmission rates, data also indicates that deaths occur two to eight weeks after the onset of symptoms.

So the high number of cases actually indicates behaviour from about roughly two weeks ago.

Considering some (or a lot of) people may be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms, the number to look out for here is the hospitalization rates.

Stateside, there were cities with hospitals overcapacity, with areas set up outside to keep watch of any emergency cases. But a lot of people seeking medical help were being turned down if their symptoms were not severe or life-threatening.

BC has hospitals that are already overcapacity, but the real effect of Covid will start once there aren't enough paramedics to pick up people who are close to dying or when there aren't enough nurses to treat patients. Unfortunately, it looks like that may just happen:

We had an entire country to the south of us with all these problems. You'd think we'd bother to look over the data and study how to better manage a pandemic in cities with high transmission rates.

Punster McPunisher, Friday, 16 April 2021 06:44 (two days ago) link

BREAKING: @JustinTrudeau says he’s ready to deploy mobile Red Cross vaccination teams to Ontario.

— David Akin 🇨🇦 (@davidakin) April 16, 2021

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 16 April 2021 16:16 (two days ago) link


intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Friday, 16 April 2021 16:21 (two days ago) link

maybe he should do it then

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Friday, 16 April 2021 16:23 (two days ago) link

Might need a request or approval from the province? Not sure how it works.

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 16 April 2021 16:32 (two days ago) link

Ford is already saying thanks but no thanks. Stupid--why would you ever turn down help?

clemenza, Friday, 16 April 2021 16:47 (two days ago) link

Would help more if we had some vaccines to administer. I think maybe they should stop throwing around words like “secured” when obviously it’s actually completely contingent on whatever new shit will come up.

Kim, Friday, 16 April 2021 16:51 (two days ago) link

Ontario / Quebec border reportedly closing on Monday.

pomenitul, Friday, 16 April 2021 20:48 (two days ago) link

Apparently Ontario has over a millions doses frozen in storage right now.

gl ontario

sean gramophone, Saturday, 17 April 2021 01:08 (yesterday) link

A little worrying when police departments are more reasonable than elected officials:

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 17 April 2021 17:43 (yesterday) link

Thought I might have my first police encounter today. Toward the end of a walk, I cut through the Hall of Fame grounds here (four baseball diamonds). I could see a cruiser up ahead in the small parking lot beside the building, but he pulled out before I got there. Suspect it was a speed trap.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 April 2021 18:53 (yesterday) link

you were walking under the limit i assume?

they've reversed the playgrounds decision, which triggered literally every parent i knew in the province; but as-of-yet have not acknowledged that they have done little of what experts have been begging them to do so far.

How does “at least we’re not Alberta” feel now, Doug?

"The Pus/Worm" by The Smiths (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 17 April 2021 20:51 (yesterday) link

you were walking under the limit i assume?

Nice...I've seen one doctor after another on TV and online say they're got it completely backwards with the outdoor restrictions, and that this could even lead to more transmission as they drive people indoors. So I'm glad they reversed course with playgrounds. Selfishly, I hope golf courses are next, but probably not: there's a perception issue, as a friend points out (golf = rich lawyers and doctors), and also you've got clubhouses in the mix.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 April 2021 21:16 (yesterday) link

i was hoping to get out to the island for some disc golf at some point, but i guess that's probably a no-no?

golf/disc golf seem to me like practically the safest outdoor activities possible

Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Saturday, 17 April 2021 21:23 (yesterday) link

I’m sure the island would be fine, it’s just the access to it I’d worry about.

Kim, Saturday, 17 April 2021 21:53 (yesterday) link

The walking paradox for me is, the further away from home I travel, the more isolated I can be when I walk; but am I breaking any rules by driving further?

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 17 April 2021 22:39 (yesterday) link

The Stratford police also say they won't be doing random checks. Are there any jurisdictions across the province who haven't said the same? Looks pretty bad on Ford--clearly there wasn't any consultation.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 April 2021 23:04 (yesterday) link

It’ll just get abused by the worse officers in every department, despite what the press releases say.

Walking drunk at 8:10 in the streets of a curfew-ed city was an experience.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 18 April 2021 00:49 (three hours ago) link

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