Rolling Race 2021

I am posting this here because it seems that Starville Methodist Church is actually Starville CME Church

https://www.cbs19.tv/article/news/crime/suspect-in-custody-after-shooting-at-starville-methodist-church/501-54e381fc-cefe-4004-b9ca-8b5ab3fffbb4

Here’s a good old ‘AnTi-RaCiStS aRe ThE rEaL rAcIsTs’, courtesy of the Hungarian government:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/budapest-black-lives-matter-artwork-rightwing-backlash

update on Miya Ponsetto, the nutjob who tackled a kid in nyc: she's been arrested after doing an interview with gayle king
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/nyregion/arlo-hotel-keyon-harrold.html

Over the course of the interview, which was conducted remotely, Ms. Ponsetto grew increasingly agitated and confrontational. At one point, as Ms. King pressed her on taking more responsibility for her actions, Ms. Ponsetto held up a hand to the camera as if to silence her.

“All right, Gayle,” Ms. Ponsetto said. “Enough.”

(Her lawyer) Ms. Ghatan then leaned over to her client, whispering: “No, stop. Stop.” Capt. Eric Buschow of the Ventura County Sheriff’s Office said that Ms. Ponsetto had been arrested in Piru, Calif., a small town about 45 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles where she has been living.

Ms. Ponsetto was driving to her neighborhood at around 4:30 p.m. local time when deputies and New York police officers pulled her over, Captain Buschow said. Ms. Ponsetto refused to get out of the car at first and slammed a door on a deputy before being pulled from the car and taken into custody, he said.

actually, apologies for "nutjob" as she's probably dealing with genuine mental issues.

I watched that interview. That girl is not dealing with any mental issue deeper than being a pampered 22-year-old who's never been told "no" in her life.

I'm not going to pretend like I can reliably identify who is mentally ill and who isn't from a distance but I am pretty comfortable in saying actions have consequences and I am glad this woman was arrested.

yeah, even her lawyer had to tell her to quit being an ass during the interview. and for some reason she felt she had the authority to actually approach civilians and demand they show her her phones, but only picked the Black customer to actually accost and tackle.

i'm comfortable saying that anyone who reacts to being pulled over by the cops by slamming the door on them - or who unprovoked tackles a child! - is probably not doing well mentally. and that's not an excuse or justification for her behavior in any way but i do feel like i should be more careful about calling people "nuts".

i am also pro "actions have consequences," especially right now.

Lol I don’t need to know anything about her mental health, she’s racist as shit and she seems horrible in every way. That interview, Jesus.

In the wake of neo-confederates storming the Capitol I've been thinking a lot about the "this is not who we are" debate/memes and certain differences between right and left. I remember hearing once the observation that the driving emotion of the right is anger, while the driving emotion of the left is guilt. I'm sure it's an oversimplification, but it's interesting how it feels like the counterbalance to the boastful "we are great" attitude of the right is the baleful "we are terrible" attitude of the left. Which, I mean, we are. But humanity is terrible. I sometimes feel like the American left discourse around racism as America's original sin takes on a religious quality (I mean, duh, "original sin") and I'm not always sure whether it winds up helpful. Or maybe it does, overall, but it can take detours where white people on the left undergo all kinds of ritual self-flagellation and introspection that I'm not sure advances things. Guilt can certainly have good outcomes, in fact some guilt is necessary to having a conscience. But something still feels very sackcloth-and-ashes about a lot of today's white discourse around racism. Surely it's better than the opposite. I'm sort of wondering aloud really, I don't have a definite take on this.

I don't know the right way to deal with this but it's not great that there is a whole industry now catering to "anti racist allies" which seems to have a primarily therapeutic purposes for the "anti racist" on a personal level- like this is how acknowledging your privilege will make you a better person and relieve you of your burdens etc. despite all the theatrics it's a hell of a lot easier to acknowledge one's privilege than to actually try to dismantle it and there's way too much of the former that doesn't even seem to acknowledge that the latter is also necessary

the religious thing is just the most accessible language we have for something this huge but it's a problem if anti racism becomes about seeking personal absolution instead of changing the world whatever language it's wrapped up in

I think the guilt is baked in and won't go away as long as colonialism and white supremacy still structure the world- the right wing response is actually pretty attuned to this I think, more than the left, their denial and projection is actually functional

Yeah, I think that last point is important. There’s a recognition among conservative “thinkers” that national myths serve a political purpose and also make people more comfortable in their own lives. I guess my question is whether national guilt/sin serves an equally powerful purpose - does it spur people to action or just to therapeutic steps as you put it? I would hope maybe it’s both. Of course there’s an inherent imbalance between a side that tells you to be more selfish and a side that tells you to be more selfless - the former is the path of less resistance.

I don't know the right way to deal with this but it's not great that there is a whole industry now catering to "anti racist allies" which seems to have a primarily therapeutic purposes for the "anti racist" on a personal level

heh, this goes back to the Catholic Church selling indulgences.

the religious thing is just the most accessible language we have for something this huge but it's a problem if anti racism becomes about seeking personal absolution instead of changing the world whatever language it's wrapped up in

I think the guilt is baked in and won't go away as long as colonialism and white supremacy still structure the world

see there's kinda the crux of it though ... like, is that even possible (for colonialism and white supremacy to not structure the world)? And that goes back to the sinful nature of humanity issue that is tied up with the colonialism and white supremacy ...

so from one perspective an answer could be no which is why the world and humanity (if both are taken as colonial constructions) must be abolished

from a perspective that takes the world and humanity as givens there would still have to be reparations but I don't see how there could be any point at which people could say it's sorted and the world is fixed now

wrt national guilt spurring people into action my family is german and that country has gradually become better at rhetorically acknowledging the awfulness of one specific period of its history (don't mention namibia)- to the extent that there is sometimes a twisted form of national pride over how good they are at apologising for their past (which is nevertheless firmly in the past) meanwhile the world has been irrevocably changed and Germany is (relatively) thriving again. then you have fringe weirdos like the Antideutsche as well as more mainstream liberals whose apparent rejection of the legacy of nazi antisemitism just becomes an excuse for islamophobia and uncritical support for US foreign policy. and those for whom all this shame is humiliating, who demand an unapologetic nationalism to make Germany great again. guilt seems to be a factor in all of these responses and if this example is anything to go by it's not encouraging as the only motivator for "reconciliation" (a euphemism). which obviously isn't to say that shamelessness would be better

don't get me started on britain and its weirdly aggressive combo of nostalgia and denial that characterises its attempt to suppress any guilt over how it got rich (because everyone knows, really)

The idea of associating the left = guilt implies the left is mainly white people. A start might be following black ideological leadership imo

yeah we're pretty much talking about white people in the race thread ... Deej otm

Journalists will never fucking change.

Just an observation about the media:

We’ve gotten dozens of request from political reporters asking to be connected with veterans who became right-wing extremists.

But we’ve gotten zero interest in the perspective of POC troops who had to cope with extremists in their units.

— Alexander McCoy (@AlexanderMcCoy4) January 21, 2021

inserts "pretends to be shocked.gif" here

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/us/black-us-senators-history-trnd/index.html

I would like to see a similar rundown for other ethnicities.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/star-new-york-times-reporter-donald-mcneil-accused-of-using-n-word-making-other-racist-comments
https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/01/28/donald-mcneil-new-york-times-controversy

So, did he call a student the n-word or was he participating in a discussion where he introduced the n-word as an example of a certain style of rhetoric, because if it was the latter I am much more inclined to think the NYT did the right thing

i think that's likely the question being had in the boardroom right now and i'm assuming it's the latter as well.

y'all what is going on with K-Pop

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/entertainment/k-pop-sowon-nazi-photos-apology-scli-intl/index.html

This is a linked article from 2018: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/asia/bts-simon-wiesenthal-complaint-intl/index.html

Nothing new here:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xd5bdd/nazis-chic-is-asias-offensive-fashion-craze-456

In 2016 Sony Music had to apologize after Japanese girl band Keyakizaka46 wore black capes and hats similar to the SS uniform during a stage performance.

Two years before that, South Korean pop group Pritz said they never intended to look like Nazis when they dressed in black shirts with red armbands in a music video.

this is fascinating to me

btw I'm not clicking on a Vice link on the rolling thread about race, that is taking irony several steps too far

xp
wth is going on with Vice's "more like this" algorithm

Haven't been keeping up with Vice's latest transgressions, sorry.

Try this instead:

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/27/asia/taiwan-nazi-school-asia/index.html

that 2016 CNN article is quoted in the 2018 CNN article I posted

lol I guess CNN was like "nailed it the first time"

you can track this in India too

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/asia/india-hitler-childrens-book.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8660064.stm

That's not Hitler on the cover of the book, it looks like a waxwork... of Bruno Ganz.

color me unsurprised: https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/08/entertainment/morgan-wallen-record-sales/index.html

I keep hearing that this is getting worse.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/the-us-is-seeing-a-massive-spike-in-anti-asian-hate-crimes.html?fbclid=IwAR0pvq2ZLSpxoX0iSQ3p1HBPJPOkyNJNSocsyH0-gmFcXvAz4fEF16F4M2M

smith college again:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/us/smith-college-race.html

https://www.espn.com/soccer/ac-milan/story/4324640/zlatan-ibrahimovic-to-lebron-james-do-what-youre-good-at,-stay-out-of-politics

I don't follow soccer but I've seen this guy's name before. If anyone needs to shut the fuck up, it's him.

In a February 2011 interview, Ibrahimović stated that the boxer Muhammad Ali is one of his role models, going on to say: "One of my idols in sport and outside the sport also..he believed in his (principles) and he never gave (them) up."

good thing Muhammad Ali never did any politics

You can tell Ibrahimović follows his own advice. He proudly doesn't use his brain for anything outside of playing his position.

I’m sure Zlatan is 100% cool with this totally apolitical incident:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11863/12227404/zlatan-ibrahimovic-uefa-opens-investigation-after-ac-milan-striker-racially-abused-at-red-star-belgrade

ibrahimovic is an obnoxious idiot

Ibrahimovic is a mouthy fuckhole

he was in MLS last year, lots of fans grew to hate him statewide

😕

I love Black history.
But the 1619 Yoga Project is a little too much for me. pic.twitter.com/V1TffnyCTl

— Michael Harriot (@michaelharriot) February 27, 2021

oh no

it's hardly the most upsetting element of the video, but that CADENCE

Uhh...

the cheerful warmth of the tone and cadence makes it sound that getting on boats to become slaves was a nice thing for black people to do .... yeah, ughhhhhh

Meanwhile, over at Oberlin:

https://www.facebook.com/1569723009914148/posts/2922254581327644/?d=n

"woke" is an essentially meaningless term at this point, but i think that you're right in that it is now used denigratingly by those on the left and the right. though there's some overlap, that denigration exists for mostly different reasons across the spectrum, obv.

it’s used as racial code by white people on the left and the right now, afaict. Stevolende, in its original usage by Black people, it wasn’t sarcastic or a veiled insult.

The phenomenon of white people taking slang/argot coined by Black people and weaponizing into something negative is long and storied and never-ending

(See for example “yaaaaas”)

This is why I only adopt slang that was obviously invented by shitty gamers, like “cuck” and “simp” (actually I don’t do that either)

Using slang isn’t de facto bad but taking slang terms that were meant to convey a positive idea and turning them into shorthand insults gets very old very quickly

history of the phrase "identity politics" is telling & v unflattering to whiter maler parts of The Left

A lot of the pushback against "woke" on the left (that I see in my IG feed, at least) is from Black people, though— it's excoriating the performative "wokeness" of white middle-class progressives as being mere platitudes. But that might just be my feed, I've seen it used in the ways the rest of you are describing, too.

Would you agree that it’s qualitatively and substantively different when people in group A use specific, self-coined language to say “you aren’t helping us” and people in group B use that same specific language to say “you aren’t helping group A”, particularly when accosting members of group A?

Inasmuch as black people are now critiquing its use, they’re critiquing the perversion of it by white people afaict

It’s not like they were mad at Erykah Badu’s use of it on New Amerykah Part One in 2008

When right wing whites use it, it’s a handy substitute for the n word that they can say on the news, which is pretty disgusting perversion of the word given its origin.

DJP, absolutely.

And when left wing whites use it, there’s an implicit contempt for thing racism seriously as bourgeois or neoliberal or whatever, which, again, is a pretty disgusting perversion

I think it’s pretty hard to salvage the original, positive sincere use of it in such an environment, at least in mixed company, which is a shame.

Yeah, I mean, I was just bringing up one of the main ways I see it used. Not defending its use by post-left edgelord fucks.

Sorry, “thing” should be “taking” in my second to last post

thieving motherfuckers take everything

This is why I only adopt slang that was obviously invented by shitty gamers, like “cuck” and “simp” (actually I don’t do that either)

― Canon in Deez (silby), Friday, March 19, 2021 2:54 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol thats not the origin of those words either (maybe thats the joke?)

Used to like thg e word Kuk which I think was car culture slang for squares or something but god Cuck what a sign of toxic masculinity.
Heard it was also a fetish of sorts.

Toxic masculinity especially toxic white masculinity kinda sucks big moose eh.
Oh so topical recently and on this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/20/white-people-black-authors-are-not-your-medicine
interview from this weekend's Guardian review with Yaa Gyasi despairing about the limited progress in race relations even when on surface it is looking hopeful.

I was wondering how one would combat or dismantle racism and thinking that a lot of the idea of white superiority had to be dispensed with i.e.unlearnt and it would be better if it was a more universal thing than being an individual choice so how one would carry out a process like that. If it might be something that could be dispensed through other processes. It would be good if it could be dispensed through the tap water or some other agency but I can see that taht would only ever be a metaphorical thing and how one could find a ground zero without knocking other things down alongside it, though maybe they would need to go too.
But that would still leave a level of great injustice that had been carried out in the name of this so called superiority over the last few centuries which would still need to be addressed. & that too is unlikely while there are still vestiges of thought that think of things like deserving/undeserving poor and subsequent imbalances as somehow justified.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/us/white-headmaster-kneeling-long-island/index.html

what the hell re: this entire story

how are you going to punish a kid for doing his homework
how are you going to send a kid to the headmaster's office for doing his homework
how are you going to make a kid kneel in apology for DOING HIS HOMEWORK
why aren't they naming the headmaster, John Holian, in this story

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/education/marianist-school-kneel-headmaster-1.50191293

Another version of the story that names the headmaster and shows his picture

christ what an asshole

jfc

Gotta love that "this is the African way to apologize" is what he came up with to explain his actions after being called out.

Is that from some other media somewhere? H Rider Haggard or the Lion King or something?
or is it simple fruit loopery.

it's in the news story; he claims a Nigerian father made his son kneel when apologizing, ergo now all Black people must kneel when apologizing otherwise it isn't sincere to him

particularly valid when the offense is *checks notes* being ahead on your schoolwork

The headmaster, who is not being named by CNN

Yeah, that is very weird. It almost sounds like the "don't name mass shooters" thing, except that that obviously doesn't apply.

this seems like a good way to frame this going forward
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1263216

It’s been three months exactly since we watched — on live television — as supporters of former President Donald Trump climbed past barricades, shattered windows and besieged the U.S. Capitol. The president’s name echoed through the corridors of Congress as the insurrectionists unleashed their frustration at a nation they feared would soon no longer be recognizable to them, a rallying cry to defend the man who had positioned himself as their savior.

Since then, we’ve come to learn a lot about the mob that ripped through the building that day. And, vitally, a new study shows that this wasn’t just a group of people primed to believe the election had been stolen. These weren’t just people wracked with economic anxiety, as previously assumed. It wasn’t even mostly made up of members of the far-right’s front-line groups. What we witnessed was a race riot.

I mean, duh

I feel like Black people have been screaming this into the void for the past 5-6 years

TS: MSNBC vs The Void

Yeah, real statement of the obvious there.

But, amazingly, there are millions of Americans for whom the obvious is not obvious. For those people, it wold help to have some semi-authoritative voice repeating it endlessly, until they absorb it enough that it becomes obvious to them, too.

The people who need to hear this will not accept the author of this piece as a semi-authoritative voice.

I slightly disagree. Those who need to hear it are not the racists who rioted. They are unreachable. The mushy white middle who are unaccustomed to thinking in these terms and whose thinking about race is grounded on comfortable ignorance might include some who would accept the author as semi-authoritative, if only because the author was 'sponsored' by a huge corporate white-owned media entity.

The people who need to hear this are not consuming information from MSNBC

Take who you can get.

The people who need to hear this are not consuming information from anywhere.

Depending on your definition of 'information', sure.

ugh idk why this of all things sets me off. maybe it’s the chinstroky nature of the framing, as if this is a purely academic inquiry that like “merits further study” or possibly the self-important “now I, a person whose opinions are important, see things differently...”

gonna log off for a bit I think - this has pushed me over some stupid edge

pomemitul (and everyone) *of course*

I’m just seeing too much red to respond to this thoughtfully. as noted, gonna step away.

best way to approach this from a personal perspective imo would be to present the capital riots in shorthand as "seditionist race riots" whenever discussing them and see who pushes back

a good inevitable latter half "how it started/how it's going" photo
http://hyperallergic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Image2-resized.jpg

this should require a link to the "how do you wipe your ass" thread

you don't see the leaves?

actually the confederate flag gets usage in the follow-up picture

I would never desecrate my ass by rubbing it on a filthy Confederate flag

I hear you, but there are ways of making sure it only comes into contact with the expellable contents of one's ass.