Trans Politics, Trans Activism, also 'rolling is this transphobic?' thread

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I think it is time to separate the discussion, and leave the Trans/Genderqueer/Agender/Questioning thread as a space set aside *for* trans/queer/questioning people (cis people are welcome on that thread! It's not a 'no boys' situation, but I think it's better to allow that space to continue be trans-led and focused on trans, nonbinary, questioning and genderfull ILX0rs, rather than trans issues in general, because it's exhausting for trans people to have to be 'all transphobia discourse all the time'.)

So we should create a wider thread for discussion of trans issues, transphobia, politics etc.

This subject is intensely emotional for a lot of people, so please try to be respectful and thoughtful. Genuine questions of 'is this transphobic, can we talk a little deeper about how and why?' are OK. General 'let me play devil's advocate with your life' discourse is really not OK.

A note on language: cis and trans are not slurs, they are descriptors, but we should all be careful of making assumptions. (Yes, I include myself in that.) I'm going to respectfully ask people to think carefully about use of the other common trans activism acronym in terms of accuracy and specificity - if in doubt, spell it out, in fact, spelling it out is good practice in general. If people or groups or ideas are trans-exclusive, then let's talk about and address that trans exclusion. If you mean 'trans exclusive feminism' then say 'trans exclusive feminist' - and if the person or idea is really not someone or something that can be called feminist (I'm referencing your G-L*nners here) think about whether just plain 'transphobe' or 'trans hatred' or 'trans exclusion' is a more accurate term.

Branwell with an N, Friday, 9 October 2020 07:34 (one year ago) link

Gender GP are experiencing a lot of issues with their website (don't know if this is a DDOS or if they are having too much of a good thing in terms of support) but a description of the issues here:

https://www.gendergp.com/transgender-community-urgently-needs-support-trans-healthcare-petition/

You can skip directly to their petition / open letter here:

https://www.change.org/p/transgender-healthcare-services-in-the-uk-are-broken-urgent-improvements-are-needed

(Just a reminder, do not give change dot org money if you want that money to reach the organisation you care about - if you want to donate, do so directly via trans organisations, change dot org money goes only to change dot org. They WILL try to catch you if you're not paying attention.)

Branwell with an N, Friday, 9 October 2020 07:37 (one year ago) link

Oh! I think the petition is UK only, so be mindful of that, too.

Branwell with an N, Friday, 9 October 2020 07:42 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

I want to be careful not to suggest that transphobia is in any way less of a problem in America

and I suspect this may be just my perception based on the fact that Rowling has become the face of this on Twitter and in the media

but I get this sense that anti-trans politics and transphobia is a little more pitched in the UK? Or more of a high profile issue publically?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 February 2021 14:29 (one year ago) link

yes

Left, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:09 (one year ago) link

I think the main problem is that it is much more acceptable within left and liberal/centrist circles. The main public faces of transphobia being ppl like Rowling, Hadley Freeman, etc. adds to that.

xpost

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:12 (one year ago) link

Probably still easier for a trans person to access specific healthcare here than in the US tho (but they're working on making it more difficult).

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:14 (one year ago) link

most distinctive about the UK situation is the extent to which influential liberals and liberal publications have been basically leading the charge and spreading stuff associated elsewhere with the religious or fascist right (and the hard right following suit has made this stuff pretty much hegemonic in UK media). there was a minor outcry recently from prominent UK liberals when biden made some minor gesture towards trans rights ("I can't believe I agree with trump..." etc)

Left, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:22 (one year ago) link

Probably still easier for a trans person to access specific healthcare here than in the US tho (but they're working on making it more difficult).

Not to the best of my knowledge! I hear a lot about waiting lists for HRT in the UK whereas it’s possible to get hormones on an informed consent basis (I.e. without onerous protocols requiring you to transition socially first or having to prove you’re trans to a doctor) from Planned Parenthood and any number of sympathetic physicians

Canon in Deez (silby), Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:26 (one year ago) link

idk how much it varies between states in the US. it's bad here and probably getting worse

Left, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 15:29 (one year ago) link

Why does the UK appear more transphobic than the States? Why does that UK transphobia turn up more noticeably on the Left, among progressives and especially people who identify as feminists, in the UK?

Like everything else to do with differences between the UK and the US, it comes down to Class, and attitudes towards Class, what Class is, and how it works.

The foundational myth of the US is the American Dream, the idea that class is something fundamentally malleable, mutable, alterable that individuals can and do change over the course of their lives. That an immigrant can arrive penniless, work hard at a blue collar job, buy a house and send their children to university, at which point the family becomes middle class. Yes, in reality this is completely unattainable to most, but it is still a myth that people *believe* in deeply. In class, birth should not be destiny, to most Americans.

In the UK, class is something far more inborn, inherent, inflexible, and unalterable. The very deep British belief is that if you are born into a class, then you will die as that class, no matter how much money you gain or lose. The circumstances you were raised in, what accent you have, where you went to school, these things *matter*, both conceptually and materially, they will shape your future outcomes in life. A working class person who accumulates a lot of money will be dismissed as “jumped-up” nouveau-riche; a middle class person with a plummy accent who insists they’re working class because their grandad was a milkman will be lampooned as a fake "mockney".

At the core of Feminist thought, is the idea that sex is a Power Relation, like race, like class. Women are disadvantaged, exploited and oppressed As A Class. How you are likely to think about the class of "Women", what it means and who it contains, is likely to be heavily influenced by how you think "Class" works, whether you view it as inherently inalterable or fundamentally mutable. Do you believe that it is possible for an individual to alter their position, within a systemic power structure? If you, like much of the UK, you believe that is inherently impossible, that’s how you end up with supposed progressives who believe that transmasculine people are "jumped-up lesbians" and transfeminine people are "fakes and mockeries".

And that’s the most important thing to grasp about UK transphobia - these appalling ideas don’t just turn up in the ~Gender Crit~ feminists – they turn up among people like the UK Skeptic movement, who played a huge part in the Guardian-New Statesman axis of transphobia, people who are deeply invested in maintaining the class status quo from Helen Lewis to Kier “trans rights are just a culture war” Starmer; and also among traditional ~Working Class~ leftists who refuse to see gender as a class or a class issue, such as the Mark Fisher wing and the SWP during their rapey years. Which brings up another problem, that in the US, trans rights are unequivocally a progressive issue; in the UK left, they are often a stick to beat 'feminists' with.

The state of trans healthcare in the US vs the UK... this is complicated, because quite frankly, US trans healthcare is better because the US healthcare system is so fucked up. It’s so fragmented that it is far more open to individual healthcare providers, whether they are trans affirmative or exclusionary. Trans friends in the US keep and share lists of therapists, surgeons, HMOs, private healthcare providers etc. who *will* offer gender affirming services, and gender confirmation treatments if necessary. If you can find the money, you can find someone who will help you.

The NHS, on the other hand, is a political football. Centralised gender clinics in the UK function as a bottleneck, by design. You have to pass arbitrary tests designed and administered by cis people. In the US, trans friends share lists of doctors who will prescribe hormones; in the UK, trans friends share the exact statements you have to make to pass the gatekeepers, lying if necessary, to access care. (It is the exact situation that Sandy Stone describes 30 years ago in The Empire Strikes Back – that’s how far behind the US the UK is, in terms of trans care.) Trans people being put on waiting lists that are years long, or being told the referral time is literally "infinite" – that is a political decision coming from the current government.

Branwell with an N, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 20:06 (one year ago) link

In happier news, that indicates the winds may be shifting on transphobia within traditional bastions of feminism:

https://feministlibrary.co.uk/statement-on-transphobia-and-accountability/

Branwell with an N, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 20:07 (one year ago) link

thank you, that explains a lot, appreciate it.

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 February 2021 20:10 (one year ago) link

I thought this was a pretty good article on the phenomenon as well from a couple years ago: https://theoutline.com/post/6536/british-feminists-media-transphobic

JoeStork, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 20:36 (one year ago) link

this fucking country

as a med student at Brighton and Sussex (i will be having my obs and gynae placements on the mentioned wards) THANK YOU!!! i've heard stuff about ward staff getting phone calls from angry old men about this and it's honestly baffling. like it's not going to affect you???

— ellen (@e_petersxx) February 10, 2021

Left, Thursday, 11 February 2021 12:24 (one year ago) link

re: fake story picked up by mutliple outlets about the trans police banning midwives from saying "mother" and "breastfeeding" on wards (non-gendered language has been recommended for people who aren't women, the press presumably thought it didn't sound dangerous enough unless they added the censorship bit)

Left, Thursday, 11 February 2021 12:36 (one year ago) link

one recurring theme in this shit is how provisions for trans men, nonbinary people and others keep getting portrayed as being done exclusively for the sake of not hurting trans women's feelings or something (this seemed to be one of JKR's contentions). it's clearly a strategic propaganda choice and related in some way to how trans men keep being identified as trans women, in public and in the press. has there been any writing on this phenomenon?

Left, Thursday, 11 February 2021 12:56 (one year ago) link

eight months pass...

i literally couldn't sleep last night thinking about this wave of trans hostility currently sweeping across the UK, it's completely fucked up

my employer is now backing away from its relationship with Stonewall

i just literally cannot get my head around 1) why 2) why now

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 14:51 (eleven months ago) link

btw anybody who hasn't seen this Contrapoints should do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gDKbT_l2us

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 14:51 (eleven months ago) link

i feel you. between chave dappelle, the sports ban in tx, the bullshit in loudon county, it feels like the reactionaries are organized and amplifying more right now.

class project pat (m bison), Wednesday, 27 October 2021 14:59 (eleven months ago) link

it makes me wonder if as a nation we genuinely accept LGB people or if we've just learned that it's not socially acceptable to discriminate against them the way it seems to be fine to do to trans people. The arguments are the same as they were in the 80s: the predatory concerns, the destabilising of family life, it's like we learned nothing.

boxedjoy, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 15:35 (eleven months ago) link

yeah i suspect thats a major part of it. aside from terfs, its mostly the same interests (ie conservative christians/fascists) pushing these arguments and narratives. i think this is where the whole "you cant say [bigoted thing] about [marginalized group] without [non-material, superficial social repercussions] these days!!!!" complaint comes from, like this stifled antagonism that finally has a target that they can direct their reactionary hostilities towards with some greater degree of social validation.

class project pat (m bison), Wednesday, 27 October 2021 15:53 (eleven months ago) link

it is odd though because in Britain a lot of this stuff is coming from a place you wouldn't necessarily expect. The Guardian isn't great but its unique selling point is its alleged left-wing perspective (comparatively, maybe, but generally lol) and to see it take such an editorial line has been confusing because it makes no sense.

boxedjoy, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 15:56 (eleven months ago) link

it's going to be so obvious in 20 years to everyone what the right side of this argument was, the problem is that it's hurting people right now

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 18:32 (eleven months ago) link

^

licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2021 18:33 (eleven months ago) link

If only there were actual problems in the world that people could direct their inchoate anger towards, maybe then they'd feel less harmed by the life choices of others that don't impact them in any meaningful way.

(a picture of a defecating pig) (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 October 2021 18:46 (eleven months ago) link

Sorry if this isn't the right thread for this, but am I the only one who continually fucks up the right pronouns while speaking? My daughter's 12 year old friend is going by "they/them" and I keep messing up and saying "her/she". Really trying to get it right, but I'm becoming seriously concerned about my 51-year-old brain's ability at defeating my subconscious impulses.

bookmarkflaglink (Darin), Wednesday, 27 October 2021 23:53 (eleven months ago) link

practice! I’ve had a few people change pronouns in my life and just taking ten minutes a day to repeat to yrself a short script like “Their name is x. Their pronouns are they/them. They like x and it’s fun to hang out with them” or w/e works pretty well ime, and it doesn’t seem to occur to a lot of ppl

nicole, Thursday, 28 October 2021 00:08 (eleven months ago) link

also gets easier the more they/thems there are in yr life, which will likely happen over time if you have 12-year-olds in yr life

also, it helps not to worry too much about it! not because it isn’t important (it is), but because the more of an anxiety you develop around it the harder it will be (again, ime). when you inevitably mess it up, correct yrself quickly and without any “oh geez it’s just so hard, I don’t know why I can’t get this, I’m so sorry” etc.

nicole, Thursday, 28 October 2021 00:15 (eleven months ago) link

Thanks Nicole! Practicing is what I need for sure. Luckily, I’ve haven’t screwed up in front of my daughter’s friend yet and my daughter is more than happy to correct me when I do slip up. I’ll get there eventually.

bookmarkflaglink (Darin), Thursday, 28 October 2021 03:57 (eleven months ago) link

I’ve had a few people change pronouns in my life and just taking ten minutes a day to repeat to yrself a short script

yeah, same ... also, what nicole says ... you will inevitably mess it up, but don't get defensive or demeaning

sarahell, Thursday, 28 October 2021 05:39 (eleven months ago) link

Open letter signed by 16,000 calls for BBC apology over trans article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096

Being cheap is expensive (snoball), Thursday, 28 October 2021 20:41 (eleven months ago) link

You’d think they could have at least recapped the reason that the study is said to be flawed.

Nice to know that some “appreciations” were sent in, though, I wasn’t aware of a formal avenue for those. Maybe they should keep a running ticker of how many they get.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 28 October 2021 21:46 (eleven months ago) link

Fuck K4thl33n St0ck fuck K4thl33n St0ck fuck K4thl33n St0ck

emil.y, Thursday, 28 October 2021 22:04 (eleven months ago) link

the implication that “many trans women are lesbians, and many cis lesbians enjoy fucking them” is an equal statement to “all cis lesbians must be willing to fuck any given trans woman” is so deeply absurd, and the fact that so many publications treat it like a reasonable debate that must be had sucks so much.

there are people with certain physical traits who I don’t want to fuck; people have sexual preferences within a given orientation! but if I were to make a big public stink about it and imply or outright state that those traits invalidated their identity and the sexuality of the people who do, I would expect to be called out for it!

my heart aches for trans women in the UK these days, it’s bad enough dealing with this shit when it’s thousands of miles away

nicole, Thursday, 28 October 2021 22:05 (eleven months ago) link

yeah, same ... also, what nicole says ... you will inevitably mess it up, but don't get defensive or demeaning

― sarahell, Thursday, October 28, 2021 1:39 AM bookmarkflaglink

it's just weird *how* defensive people get when they make this mistake, like, if you call a friend by the wrong name or say their last name wrong, and they correct you, you don't sit there causing a scene.

i've fucked it up, been corrected just like anybody else, it's....feedback, you apologize, correct, move on. not that I wouldn't understand why someone who has been misgendered a lot might be momentarily frustrated, but usually the correction is just a polite one and people go apeshit over it.

the utility infielder of theatre (Neanderthal), Thursday, 28 October 2021 22:12 (eleven months ago) link

https://archive.md/MwYYz

uk getting very scary, they're planning to lump in trans-affirmative therapy with gay conversion therapy (as transphobes have been pushing for) and totally ban it for under 18s, also likely banning mermaids

ufo, Friday, 29 October 2021 02:54 (eleven months ago) link

feels like it would be a good time to start taking to the streets? the polls always seem to show that the transphobes are a vocal minority, should start taking advantage of that

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 October 2021 10:16 (eleven months ago) link

Trending now in UK:
#CisISASlur

(and not trending in a "everyone is taking the piss out of it" manner)

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 29 October 2021 10:19 (eleven months ago) link

these fucking babies don’t know what a slur is

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 29 October 2021 12:40 (eleven months ago) link

who’s the snowflake now??

Tracer Hand, Friday, 29 October 2021 12:41 (eleven months ago) link

Fuck K4thl33n St0ck fuck K4thl33n St0ck fuck K4thl33n St0ck

otm and also i think sussex have handled this quite poorly

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Friday, 29 October 2021 14:42 (eleven months ago) link

there are people with certain physical traits who I don’t want to fuck

The problem is that women are being accused of transphobia for saying this exact thing, if one of those physical traits happens to be having a penis. Here's an example from Simon H. in a post on a different thread four years ago:

Feminist Theory & "Women's Issues" Discussion Thread: All Gender Identities Are Encouraged To Participate

a couple of trans comrades have outright stated that 1. sexual preference for certain/specific types of genitals are inherently transphobic

Further down in that thread, j. says they see people expressing this position as well and supposes it isn't too uncommon. It's clear that this line of thinking persists to this day -- it's easy to find very recent examples of it on Twitter. Stating the position is in itself an act of pressuring people into having sex with people they don't want to have sex with. Can we all agree that's a bad thing to do?

Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Friday, 29 October 2021 19:14 (eleven months ago) link

just to jump slightly backward to nicole and Neanderthal on pronouns upthread: yes it is new and will take practice.

But honestly it is really not that hard for well-meaning people to navigate this in a well-meaning way. As long as they're truly, y'know, well-meaning.

Currently I am navigating this because my eldest (14) is nonbinary they/them. So are many of their friends. I will likely mess up. But the guiding principle is just to... not be a dick, I guess? The people who are having the most trouble with it tend to already not be on board with the whole project. And of course if you're not on board with the whole project, your motivation to practice and be a non-dick is lessened.

For me, if I try to relate an anecdote about what Ash said to Jinx and how Sky reacted, well, I'm going to be using their names a lot more than I otherwise would. A sentence like "Jax said that Sky and Ash are going to Sky's house" both avoids misgendering, and avoids potential confusion between singular and plural.

gin and catatonic (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 29 October 2021 19:33 (eleven months ago) link

the "not being on board" is key, if you support your trans or non-binary friends, you're not going to fly off the handle if you get corrected when you screw up. but if your viewpoint is "I'm really, really trying hard to do this bullshit for you, but as much as I love you, I think this is fucking stupid", you get angry when corrected because you think you shouldn't have to do it anyway.

the utility infielder of theatre (Neanderthal), Friday, 29 October 2021 19:38 (eleven months ago) link

dating while trans can be a gauntlet of managing different kinds of transphobia; i feel grateful to the few ppl who have been attracted to me without making me feel weird about their attraction. that's about as far as i care to have an opinion on the matter which is otherwise really dense and confusing to me

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 29 October 2021 19:45 (eleven months ago) link

Stating the position is in itself an act of pressuring people into having sex with people they don't want to have sex with.

No. Conflating abstract discussions about ppl's preferences with coercion makes no sense to me - like if we were having a discussion about, for instance, whether it's racist not to be attracted to ppl of certain ethnicities, I think there'd definitely be ppl arguing that. Casting this as "lesbians pressured into having sex with trans women", as the BBC article did, strongly misrepresents the issue at hand - any casual reader browsing the headline will obviously interpret this as women being personally coerced into having sex, not some philosophical disagreement. Which of course is great for the gender critical crowd because their concerns all boil down to thinking trans ppl are sexually predatory anyway.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 October 2021 20:24 (eleven months ago) link

vtc, did u just not read the next sentence in my post or

cis people have long portrayed trans people as either punchlines or disgusting untouchables, often both. this absolutely informs who and who isn’t considered attractive collectively and individually.

this doesn’t mean that any given person must correctively fuck trans people, or that every person who doesn’t want to sleep with trans people is a bigot, but it does mean that we should all (trans people included, sometime especially so) examine and correct how those anti-trans biases affect our worldviews

now, if someone comes along and points this out, and someone else responds by loudly and publicly refusing to do so, rallies a bunch of cis people in support of their brave stand against being “pressured” to fuck trans people, and uses that organization to lobby against equal public services for trans people, then yes, they’re doing transphobia!

given that this is one of the main ways that anti-trans organizations have gained power and influence, and that that power and influence has led to very real material restrictions on our individual lives and collective well-being, you can perhaps forgive us for reacting to someone coming along taking the “just asking questions, let’s all be reasonable here” tone about “simply” not wanting to have sex with trans people comes off as in direct service of transphobia.

don’t want to fuck us? don’t fuck us! a billion tweets can’t make you. just keep it to yourself for god’s sake, it’s being used by more hateful people than you to hurt us.

nicole, Friday, 29 October 2021 21:02 (eleven months ago) link

oh i guess he was trolling the lgb alliance

whose bio is transphobic

We promote the rights of lesbians, bisexuals & gay men, as recognised by biological sex. #SexNotGender.

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 November 2021 13:48 (ten months ago) link

it's just so weird that literally everybody i see on that side of the argument is a transphobe

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 November 2021 13:50 (ten months ago) link

"we have finally created a LGB organization that does not include trans people at all, why would you accuse us of being bigots"

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 November 2021 13:51 (ten months ago) link

yes exactly, this to me seems like a confused and not especially fluent attempt(by a cis gay man?) to articulate why the language and ploys used by an anti trans organisation are transphobic. Quite clearly the final diagnosis is correct here as the lgb alliance is a hate group which claims to campaign 'on behalf of LGB people' but does nothing of the sort even as a fig leaf and is instead concerned with trying to position trans people as fundamentally antagonistic to other queer people and, as their quotes in the above BBC article make clear, worse.

Sara Ahmed talks about how:

"the “gender critical” feminist landscape is littered with phrases like sex is real, sex not gender, we need to ask what they are doing. Let’s call them catch phrases, words or expressions that are used repeatedly and conveniently to represent or characterize a person, group, idea, or point of view. These phrases are a way of signalling an allegiance to a political movement that has its primarily velocity, it seems, in a virtual space. They are relatively new ways of using old terms. Nevertheless, despite being relatively new, to encounter these phrases is to be given a snap shot of a history. To start to try and make sense of them by starting with them, would be like turning up in the middle of a conversation, hearing a reaction, and not knowing what came before that provoked a reaction."

The full article is worth reading ( https://feministkilljoys.com/2021/10/31/gender-critical-gender-conservative/ ) but its worth elaborating that one of the key ways these talking points work is to provoke particular kinds of responses that are easily misconstrued through a kind of bait and switch tactic. The LGB alliance here is engaging a certain kind of provocation by using strong dogwhistle language around 'genital preference' to invite refutations to the entanglements of suggestion and elision that are embedded in those talking points, the next move its to innocently point to the overly emphatic response to an 'innocent' and 'reasonable' suggestion of 'common sense.' These kind of simplistic but vexed statements are very popular in culture wars in general and specifically with transphobes for the useful way that they can erase antagonistic context to this end.

plax (ico), Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:18 (ten months ago) link

these posts by CAPTCHA remind me of someone I knew who would always say things like "I'm sure everybody will call me a TERF...." and then proceeded to recite TERF-talking points while insinuating they were not one.

the utility infielder of theatre (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:30 (ten months ago) link

I'll stop posting on this thread now.

― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Thursday, 4 November 2021 00:38 (fourteen hours ago) link

Feel free to stop any time now.

Scamp Granada (gyac), Thursday, 4 November 2021 15:16 (ten months ago) link

admonishing someone who is directly supporting a transphobic hate group & elsewhere in the replies defines homosexuality as only being about same-"biological sex" attraction for being weird & obsessed with genitals is not at all objectionable

like this is very clear that captcha is determined to read everything in the worst faith possible

ufo, Thursday, 4 November 2021 17:31 (ten months ago) link

BBC removed the Lily Cade quotes and added:

We have updated this article, published last week, to remove a contribution from one individual in light of comments she has published on blog posts in recent days, which we have been able to verify.

We acknowledge that an admission of inappropriate behaviour by the same contributor should have been included in the original article.

"Inappropriate behaviour" is one way of describing rape accusations, I guess.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 5 November 2021 10:15 (ten months ago) link

How strange to find that these totally legitimate concerns are being propagated in this reasonable form by individuals who are quite demonstrably motivated by wild hatred

plax (ico), Friday, 5 November 2021 12:29 (ten months ago) link

"Inappropriate behaviour" is one way of describing rape accusations, I guess.

Not even just accusations, she has admitted to sexual harassment and assault. Honestly, despite the very low expectations I had, I'm still shocked that this wasn't enough for them to take the whole article down.

emil.y, Friday, 5 November 2021 15:00 (ten months ago) link

i think the article reporting statistical findings from a small internet survey by a hate group is well in breach of their accuracy guidelines too and bizarre they have found fit to defend it given in the past they have declined to report on a high profile BMJ article due to questions about its validity.

plax (ico), Friday, 5 November 2021 15:13 (ten months ago) link

i've read a lot of deluded transphobic rants in my time but very few that have built up to "yes i am a rapist," pretty impressive

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 5 November 2021 15:14 (ten months ago) link

plax i hope you resubmit your complaint as what i’ve seen of it is very well worded.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 5 November 2021 15:34 (ten months ago) link

some pretty shocking accounts there

plax (ico), Thursday, 11 November 2021 20:12 (ten months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4buJMMiwcg

a hallan shaker loon (dowd), Friday, 12 November 2021 19:25 (ten months ago) link

That's about the size of it.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 12 November 2021 22:52 (ten months ago) link

three months pass...

uk people, this is an incredible doc:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000xh73/storyville-petite-fille

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 12 February 2022 13:12 (seven months ago) link

texas activism. they are taking donations.

https://www.transtexas.org

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 26 February 2022 11:06 (seven months ago) link

^ only in the US tho, so get on it American ilxors

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 26 February 2022 15:58 (seven months ago) link

aww one of my former students works for TENT. they’re a great org.

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 26 February 2022 16:26 (seven months ago) link

two weeks pass...

The author is having quite a weekend (I won’t link to her tl but here’s some of who she’s been talking with & apparently following now I guess?)

JK Rowling sending love to the UK Campaign director for one of the world's largest anti LGBT anti women's rights religious pressure groups.

Heartwarming. https://t.co/fPRvvT3xtn

— Mallory Moore🏴 (@Chican3ry) March 12, 2022

mardheamac (gyac), Saturday, 12 March 2022 20:15 (six months ago) link

six months pass...

Anti-trans troll Matt Walsh is after the transgender health clinic at Vanderbilt University Medical Center — specifically its healthcare for trans adolescents. And all it's taken is a few tweets by him to get our governor and state attorney general to launch "an investigation" into what everyone knows is by far the best hospital in the state. Ugly shit.

https://www.wsmv.com/2022/09/21/gov-lee-claims-against-vanderbilt-transgender-health-clinic-warrants-thorough-investigation/

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 21:15 (one week ago) link

Matt Walsh is seriously one of the worst human beings alive, and if there was literally any decency in the world, he would get mowed down by a semi-truck.

he use to be just a pathetic blogger, now he's actually putting people in crosshairs.

i eat ass with a knife and fork (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 22:01 (one week ago) link

He is awfully fixated on other people's identities.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 22:03 (one week ago) link

so i guess there's a couple interlocking problems here, let's break them down

1. youtube platforms matt walsh

this guy is huge, he's all over youtube with pretty overt hate speech, and youtube is absolutely fine with this. because of monopoly capitalism it's not like most of us have any viable alternatives for video streaming. this also limits the pressure people who are, like, against genocide of trans folks can exert on youtube.

2. republican control of tn

the republican party nationally has made perpetrating bigotry against trans people a key plank of their 2022 platform. i argue with friends sometimes whether they really want us dead or whether they're just killing us in a cynical ploy for votes. i mean we're just as dead either way, it's kind of a "do angels shit" debate (for the record, i'll say that yes, angels absolutely do shit).

i'd feel better about all of this if i had the feeling anybody in a position of power was taking any of this remotely seriously. this is not a difficult problem to deal with. matt walsh could be gone tomorrow. one day he will be gone, just like fuckin' milo is gone, just like kiwifarms is gone, and the threat level trans people face on a daily basis will be significantly de-escalated. boy, a fuck of a lot of us sure do wind up dying by the time anybody in power is willing to acknowledge the threat.

when somebody acts it _will_ be youtube, i'm pretty confident. this isn't because youtube are any more principled than people in nominal positions of power, but at this point the united states as a polity is basically a post-democratic necrostate. this both (1) prevents official institutions of power from taking any steps against fairly openly genocidal policies being autocratically enacted on a state level (who wants to be america's anthony eden?) and (2) gives corporate institutions unusually wide latitude to do what they want without fear of punitive government action against them.

if you're wondering how all this winds up affecting actual trans people, this world is Hell and i want to die.

(of course, my experience is only anecdotal. i am _unusually_ privileged. most trans people don't have it quite so good as me.)

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 22:07 (one week ago) link

Ugh, now Vanderbilt has taken down the entire website for its transgender health clinic. This is the leading transgender clinic in the whole state. At the moment it's just a 404.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 22 September 2022 01:08 (one week ago) link

Yet another sham investigation by GOP politicians based on some dumb cuntbeard's Twitter shit posts

i eat ass with a knife and fork (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 September 2022 01:13 (one week ago) link

At this point why even pretend to do an investigation. Just say "we heard y'all were doing this", it's basically the same thing and you have more time to drink beer and beat off to Golan-Globus flicks after.

Ugh . This is so fucked. Guessing the site being down is probably hateful internet trolls DDOSing it or something.

i eat ass with a knife and fork (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 September 2022 01:15 (one week ago) link

Nah that can't be it. Wouldn't look like that if it was.

Perhaps they're trying to avoid people calling and clogging up the phone lines/sending hateful emails. But coming at a real cost to patients at the moment.

i eat ass with a knife and fork (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 September 2022 01:17 (one week ago) link

My guess is the lawyers said to take it all down until they could review everything. Walsh quoted from a video posted on the website, where a doctor said that the clinic had actually been profitable for the hospital, so it had good institutional support. That of course has been spun into (per a chyron for Walsh's appearance on Tucker Carlson tonight) "Vanderbilt Ghouls Castrate Kids for Big Profit."

Walsh and Rufo and that whole ilk really are the very worst people.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 22 September 2022 02:08 (one week ago) link

i don't know how to explain how i feel when shit like this goes down. sickened, of course, but you know, there aren't enough _words_ for all the different sorts of disgust i've felt over the past couple of years. i'm gonna try it. a taxonomy of disgust, if you will.

i mean, there's the obvious level. tennessee republicans are going to shut down a medical clinic providing life-saving healthcare to kids on the basis of lies which were completely made up by a grifter. that to me is like... baseline. that's ordinary disgust. that's the level of disgust i feel getting out of bed in the morning.

more disgusting, to me, is how obvious and inevitable this all is. frankly it's more surprising to me that anybody, kids or adults, was able to get any sort of trans affirming healthcare in tennessee at all. they have a fucking bathroom bill, for god's sake! they past a bill making it illegal for trans people to fucking take a dump in their state, which is ironic considering how much effort they've put into turning their entire state into one enormous shithole. given that i as a trans person am legally barred from using toilets in their state, i can't find it within me to be terribly surprised that they're not going to refill my estrogen scrip either.

so let's get to next-level disgust, how many of y'all remember that happening? like, this isn't a call-out, i'm not disgusted at any of you _personally_, it's more the situation. six months ago tennessee passed a draconian law making it effectively illegal for me to micturate in public restrooms within their fair state and gee, you know, it's a busy year i guess. so here we are _again_ with a draconian anti-trans policy put into place by a regime that's pretty much openly genocidal against trans people and what does it affect?

i mean, for god's sake, do y'all have any idea how terrifying _airports_ are for a lot of us? i'm middle-aged and i have friends who fly for work and you know, i guess it's fine, we get booked on our connecting flight through dallas or SLC and jesus christ it's terrifying. one of my friends, christ, she's still traumatized, she was flying out of fucking _SFO_ last week and they decided to choose for for one of those fun full-body scans. it was brutal, dehumanizing, intensely traumatic, and you know that's just _normal_, that's just _part of being trans_. this is flying from _one of the most trans-positive cities in the world_ to _another of the most trans-positive cities in the world_. i mean if we don't let TSA intensely scrutinize trans people's genitals on a whim, doesn't that mean the terrorists win?

but you know, it's not like any of this is anything _new_. and that - again, i'm not calling anybody out personally. nothing that the people who are actively advocating for anti-trans genocide are doing is anything that wasn't considered _normal and ordinary_ 25 years ago. and i don't mean by _cis people_, i mean _i_ considered it normal and ordinary. the victims, you see, the ones who suffer most, they're not the patients. they're the ones who aren't getting a chance to _be_ patients. once you get to vanderbilt, you got a pretty good idea who you are and what you need. if you can't get it from vanderbilt, well, there are other places that can help. ending the Transsexual Menace isn't as simple as denying us care. you have to keep us from _existing_. and the way that was done 25 years ago? that doesn't _work_ anymore. we _were_ all that ignorant 25 years ago, nearly all of us, and now only about, you know, half of us are.

and that, that, is the final layer of disgust, the cherry stone on top of the faeces-cake. they're just killing these kids out of sheer malice, really. it's not going to gain them anything. they're not going to Defeat the Transgender Agenda. they're making a pile of dead kids just for the hell of it, as far as I can figure out.

well, i guess if i don't like that i should vote for the democrats this november, right? that's my option?

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 22 September 2022 03:41 (one week ago) link

This week I heard The Guardian referred to as TERF daily is that a widespread perspective? I only pick it up for the review sections anyway.

Stevolende, Thursday, 22 September 2022 05:39 (one week ago) link

yes - the guardian was/is pretty much the vanguard of UK/anglo terfism along with other british liberal outlets. i think there has been some mild pushback from guardian-US but not enough

(it took explicit right wingers longer to adopt specifically terf rhetoric but they're running with it obsessively now making liberal/terf and christian/tory/fascist transphobia increasingly indistinguishable - not sure how useful such distinctions are except that the right wingers tend to be positions of political power while the liberals are concentrated in media). in the UK at least trans people have almost no defenders in media and politics outside the "hard left" (i.e. semi-mainstream activists and commentators who are slightly to the left of acceptable liberal opinion) and not even reliably there (where it's limited and so often blase that it's hard to shake the feeling of many cis leftists only *opposing* terfs to "own the libs" - a perverse mostly UK-specific phenomenon I think)

Left, Thursday, 22 September 2022 09:33 (one week ago) link

i don't follow these issues as much as i should because the coverage is a reliable way to trigger suicidal ideation (an intended effect - sometimes i think spite is keeping me alive)

Left, Thursday, 22 September 2022 09:39 (one week ago) link

i think there has been some mild pushback from guardian-US but not enough

they published a letter condemning the uk guardian's transphobia a few years back & are quite pro-trans in their coverage. guardian australia is quite good on trans issues too, neither has any time for even both sides nonsense let alone the fairly aggressive transphobia of the uk guardian. both are very thankfully editorially independent of their parent

now making liberal/terf and christian/tory/fascist transphobia increasingly indistinguishable

yeah it's not particularly useful & hasn't been for years - there's the occasional one who's truly coming at their transphobia from an oldschool radfem perspective and has actual left-wing credentials of some sort but they're so few and far between & are either happy to throw in with the right anyway or are now just spending their time throwing an ineffectual tantrum about how no one at all agrees with them

ufo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 12:56 (one week ago) link

pretty much every mainstream uk media outlet is fairly transphobic to some degree, the guardian has just been especially pernicious because it's had columnists who've had transphobia as a weird pet issue for decades & are largely responsible for giving transphobia its liberal respectability in the uk

ufo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 12:58 (one week ago) link

i mean that's the really fucked up thing, for all the performative cruelty on display in tennessee, things are just as bad in the uk right now, maybe worse. in the uk, you don't _need_ to have someone like matt walsh going through all that hue and cry to shut down trans-affirming care, because nobody can get it.

some years ago, i heard an american liberal say that they thought abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare". i've since had opportunity at length to consider the implications of that statement, understand what it looks like in practice.

the state of gender care in the uk today looks, well, a lot like it did 20 years ago, when people in the us looked with envy at the uk as one of the "best countries in the world" when it comes to care. you think you're trans? great, get on the waiting list to be evaluated at a gender identity clinic. it's covered through the nhs. the wait time, last i heard a couple years back (like left, i haven't exactly been keeping close tabs on the ongoing genocide for self-care reasons), was a couple years. that's to be _evaluated_. that doesn't _actually_ get you on hrt.

they're not saying you _can't_ get care, like the republicans are. they just have to be _sure_. they have to be _absolutely sure_ because these drugs are, you know, they're _very dangerous drugs_. i mean we're not talking about aspirin here, we're talking about _chemical castration_.

matt walsh didn't make up that term. that's genuinely how medical experts described HRT a quarter century ago. it was a "real-life test", an _ordeal_ trans people had to go through in order to get The Surgery. you couldn't prescribe it lightly.

i mean that's where the shit-for-brains republicans in tennessee are coming from, that's why they treat _puberty blockers_ as comparable to _genital reconstruction surgery_. that's what they were _taught_. that's what we were all fucking _taught_.

"chemical castration". are you fucking kidding me? spironalactone, that's the bullshit they promote on fox news as being effective against covid. (it's not effective against covid.)

denying trans people care relies on meticulously maintained information control, an _enforced state of ignorance_. what that looks like in the UK, if you're a major media outlet, if you're the Guardian or the BBC, it's really fucking easy. you just Teach the Controversy. Trans people: ordinary people, or harbingers of a sinister plot against women? We report, you decide.

you all remember, that was fox news's slogan. they were _effective_, though! absolutely devastatingly effective. right now fox news are sort of at "iraqi information minister" levels of propaganda, everything is on fire and nobody cares, just say whatever shit will get anyone, anyone at all, to desperately keep hanging on to your every word.

now, how effective would it be if _every major media outlet in the country_ reported exactly like fox news did? that's the only way it works. there can be no alternatives. you want to know about trans people? ok! want to see a serial killer, or a pathetic joke? those are your options. both sides! you get to see both sides of the trans experience!

the fucked up thing is that matt walsh doesn't know how much he's doing to keep us _alive_ right now. how much he's doing to fuel our _rage_. like david byrne said. the burning keeps me alive. all of the shit people like matt walsh is saying now? that was stuff i _believed_, genuinely _believed_ about myself. five years ago, not 25, five years ago.

i don't know what the people who hate us think is going to happen. i had a friend who was at a panel with a republican congressperson talking about some issue related to her job, not a trans issue at all, and the congressman spent the whole hour just staring at her with these burning eyes of hatred. i'm sorry, but that shit is hilarious to me. like, their rage (which is a very, very different thing from my rage) is only going to cause one of us to spontaneously combust, and it's not going to be me. it's gratifying. it really is, sometimes it's the only thing that makes my life worthwhile, how much just _existing_ fucks up these assholes. i don't have to do anything, i don't have to say anything, all i have to do is _exist_ and these dumb motherfuckers get all red in the face. i mean there's always the possibility that one of them might get so mad they shoot me dead on the spot, might go dan white on me, but you know what? nothing i can do about that. you go for it, big man. see how that works out for you.

because before they came along, all of this shit was stuff i was doing _to myself_, and it is so, so much of a relief to be able to offload that burden to utter pieces of shit like them.

and in the uk, it's not like that. in the uk, advocating for anti-trans genocide is _respectable_, just like it used to be. i was listening to this fascinating interview with the author torrey peters on the "gender reveal" podcast, she was talking about her tour promoting her novel _detransition baby_, and she was doing major media outlets in the us, all over the place, and in the uk, it was much more small-press stuff, niche stuff. trans people doing stuff that's... i mean, if i say "zines", i don't mean that as a criticism, i don't mean that it's unprofessional, i mean there's a lot more DIY spirit, that you're dealing with people who are very clearly on the _outside_ of things.

see, the great thing about being in a place like tennessee? it might cost you everything, but it's a lot easier to _get out_ than it is to get out of the uk. i had a couple friends in, not tennessee, but south carolina, and they both did that. they got out, and their lives aren't great, but they're _alive_, they're getting life-saving treatment. they exist. things aren't so easy as that over in the UK.

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 22 September 2022 14:05 (one week ago) link

I self-referred to my local gender identity clinic the other week. I'm expecting to get seen in about 2027

paolo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 21:16 (one week ago) link

There's also this

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3adva3/liz-truss-scotland-gender-identity

I live in Scotland so this is concerning

paolo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 21:17 (one week ago) link

Liz Truss, who used to be the Equalities Minister, has been saying that trans women are not women (Sunak also said this during the leadership race). She's either unaware of the fact that legally trans women most definitely are women or she's chosen to disregard it. I think the latter is more likely

paolo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 21:19 (one week ago) link

Some cracking posts there by the way Kate

paolo, Thursday, 22 September 2022 21:19 (one week ago) link

paolo, left - either y'all on 77? there's things i have to say that i don't feel totally comfortable saying on a public board.

one recommendation i will make, blanket recommendation to anyone who's questioning: try and get yourself involved in community. local if you have one, online if not. the absolute hardest thing is feeling like you're alone. one of the main reasons i'm doing so poorly right now is because i've had to disengage from community. (also one of the reasons i'm just fuckin' pouring trans mom energy all over this thread, tbh.)

the complicating factor is that not all community is healthy community! turns out fucked up traumatized people tend to form fucked up communities, but people still sometimes cling to the "t4t" utopian ideal where if you put a bunch of us in a room together we'll do great things because we all _understand_ each other. we do _understand_ each other, in ways that cis people don't! it's not enough to make for a healthy community, though.

but you need community. one of the things that i learned very quickly once i transitioned is that nobody does terribly well on their own.

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 22 September 2022 21:40 (one week ago) link

I'm sorry to hear you're not doing so well. And I'm not on 77, what is it?

I'm not super involved in the community but I do have one fairly good trans pal and I know other trans people I can chat to as well, so I'm not totally isolated here

paolo, Friday, 23 September 2022 07:35 (six days ago) link

Have noticed recently that disabled toilets in a few places have now got Gender Neutral Toilet notes on the door. So not sure if this is a step in the right direction or a tokenist gesture. Seeing it in the Arts Centre here and wondering now if it was something the LGBTQ collective currently exhibiting insisted on and therefore was necessary for the gallery. Will see if it lasts longer than the exhibition.
Will be a bit creepy if it doesn't.

Stevolende, Friday, 23 September 2022 08:38 (six days ago) link

regular practice is to be all mysterious and not say what 77 is, but fuck it, trans folks suffer enough because nobody told us things that really would have benefited us to know. private board for regulars, subject to mod approval. here's the thread to request access.

Request Access to 77 Borad

Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 23 September 2022 13:18 (six days ago) link

Huh, who knew? I'll see if they'll let me in

paolo, Friday, 23 September 2022 13:56 (six days ago) link

stevolende re: toilets - this is definitely a good thing. the toilet police are one of the most terrifying things trans people deal with - we're just in here trying to pee but we gotta worry about giving us the third degree about whether we have the right to piss where we're pissing or if we're like trying to be creepers and like no literally we're just trying to pee. that was the one thing i insisted my work do when i transitioned - just put in a couple gender-neutral restrooms.

i guess it's possible for the centre to rip down the signs after the exhibition, if they never want to show work by queer artists again, haha. that's a real good long-term strategy for an arts centre.

Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 23 September 2022 17:03 (six days ago) link

its now notably permanent like as of today or since i9 last looked,. an actual solid sign like

Stevolende, Friday, 23 September 2022 23:26 (six days ago) link

piece of paper with message printed replaced by metal sign

Stevolende, Saturday, 24 September 2022 08:57 (five days ago) link


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