have you quit the labour party yet?

voted #1 for them last time but have serious misgivings about how the SD's seem to have sprung up under their noses populated and followed by what wouldve seemed on the face of it to be the next generation of what ought to have been their candidates and people

*blinks*

just cancelled the dd. Didn't bother with the resignation email. They aren't a party of opposition any more and will only get worse once the guileless fuckwit melt of a leader is stabbed in the back.

By the time my trade union processes the necessary paperwork for my subs to be switched to the non-affiliated political fund, the world as we currently understand it won't exist anyway

Did so earlier this week, both dd and through contact form.

does anyone have any hope

I only joined in December.

I'm thinking about it.

I’ve left the party before, when Miliband was tacking to the right, but am not inclined to do it again yet.

I don’t rate Starmer as a leader but I recognise that the shadow cabinet he has put together is an upgrade on the pre-Corbyn one. It’s also the best we are going to get, either within the Labour Party, or electoral politics in general, any time soon. It’s too early to judge how the policy platform will shake out and whether they’ll cross any of my red lines (triangulation on immigration, welfare, military adventurism, etc) - at which point I may give up completely.

The left isn’t going to retake the Labour Party for a while. The right is far more likely to make a concerted attempt to scuttle Starmer first. Unless there is a particularly compelling reason not to, I’d rather stay to oppose that.

I also look at people like Corbyn, McDonnell, the old guard members, etc, who stuck it out through Kinnock and Blair in the belief that there may be something of value to save and were briefly proved right. They’ve put up with worse.

I joined by making a contribution and canvassing at the last electoon. Whether I decide to stay or leave is a decision I will make later in the year and will depend on what contribution I can make with others locally. Difficult to be more specific as I was navigating through the thing and then covid hit.

I don't know if reading lots of stuff since Starmer's victory is good for the soul really (I was going to ask for a few links but thought the better of it). Give yourself a break for a few weeks.

hope these days is getting 4 pints of milk. There isn't an opposition any more. I didn't vote for 20+ years previously and can easily switch back to that mode. I was born poor as fuck and am used to living poor as fuck and with very low expectations of UK governments and the so called opposition. Fuck 'em all! I've got decades of accumulated hatred and class resentments towards wankers like Starmer and would rather die than give him a vote tbh!

I spent most of the 00's working on the poorest social housing of Yorkshire and don't buy any of the crap about the gains of Blairism. I just despise the Labour Party right now.

Hope is not getting 4 pints of milk, we ended up with that this morning. It means we're not getting any on Saturday

Keir Starmer’s reshuffle is impressive - the Marxist nutters are out; moderate left are in. When this crisis is eventually over, and politics is resumed, the Tories are going to find that the 5 years when there was no opposition and no alternative has come to an abrupt end

— George Osborne (@George_Osborne) April 9, 2020

xp
hah!

Good job Osborne, the guy publishing antisemitic cartoons of Starmer’s cabinet yesterday, has no motive for undermining the Labour Party and can be relied on to play with a straight bat or I’d think he’s trolling.

Could look at the way he has treated the even further right Sadiq Khan for evidence of what he thinks of the ‘soft left’.

Re: hope. I think it's pretty much clear that: 1) a lot of stuff is happening and 2) a lot of it is bad (but some is good too)

We should not divorce 1 from 2 (and the item in the bracket) either.

how good that stuff that is happening rn might be depends on how much you believe this will genuinely be a paradigm shift rather than a precursor for more of the same - but worse.

btw if anyone ever falls into food poverty during this lockdown, just remember Mark G doesn't fall into food poverty but he considers that quite a whimsical thing.

wait is this a ukpol thread ffs i wasnt told

Nah, just trying to keep my own spirits up.

soz if I was harsh there Mark!

xp
Get back to your failed melt thread that was like the worst episode of QI ya cunt!

Basically, it was a metaphor for how things seem to get better before they start to get worse.

Nothing to do with the subject in hand, I agree. I'm off to bed anyway, gnight.

goodnight mark, sorry for being a bit shitty. i'm beyond fresh rn!

Jealous of your system where a party is a thing you can “join” in a meaningful sense

Here silby on a semi related note we were discussing you on the main thread and you should post there more in our opinion

I’ll see what I can do. I already disappointed lots of folks by forgetting to become a Crystal Palace supporter, as a bit.

Pretty sure imago would not be disappointed by you forgetting to become a Crystal Palace supporter.

"Jealous of your system where a party is a thing you can “join” in a meaningful sense"

it's no good when most of the members are either voting for an insipid establishment melt or the majority that didn't vote because their own "real opposition" media clown wasn't even close to being up to the job. i really miss Corbyn and McD :(

But at least you can quit it now! What a relief.

when posters badmouth them on here I feel like knifing them for real tbh!

re osborne, this bizarre inversion where opposition means no opposition is totally doing my head in, as is the fact that some non tories seem to genuinely believe this

but i never joined the party anyway so w/e

try telling some of these "non tories" that they aren't tories. You'd need medieval torture tools to make them admit it and they've got a "plurality of voices" on their side !

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

that makes a lot of sense actually

it's supposed to be her majesty's most loyal opposition after all

I think this is part of it but maybe something deeper but its not easy to unpick - and it may be a difficult tightrope for the left in general to walk (oppositional but seen as able to work within whatever power structures are in place). Much of this is presentational rather than substantive, so that path is there.

I even think there's something in this, as I don't really know how much mileage there is in the combative or confrontational approach (QT etc is cringe-worthy with this stuff, and the weird mixture of acquiescence and bluster from the media ineffectual). Or at least it shouldn't be the only or even main instrument. McD maybe the only person that was able to do this. Theoretically it should be easier to play this kind of game of appealing to people who view things through this lens as its really just packaging but its not easy to see who that might be (Ro Khanna in the US seems someone that maybe might have it but don't know in UK)

I think we probably need to distinguish between the people pushing this kind of stuff in a kind of fantasy world of 'opponents shaking hands at the end of the day after a fine battle of wills and wits good show pals" and people subconsciously receiving this narrative as 'now we have someone that takes the job seriously instead of just making cheap points" via the media

Also: how about giving it up for the year and maybe returning to it next year.

Are other people that you know simply quitting and just not engaging in any form of politics? And if they aren't what else are they doing? (I may need some tips lol)

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

I see a lot of ppl fading or quitting who are already busy with jobs and kids. seems like the options are just be casually involved with worthy but isolated small-scale stuff or to attempt to pull everything together yourself. no one ever really worked out what they were doing ofc

my position equates precisely onto SV's; little more to add

the ppl railing against despair, the fragmentation of the movement, or bitterly avoiding electoral politics entirely seem to be doing so out of some sense of moral obligation rather than out of any conviction.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVO9PXiUcAAQHHY?format=jpg&name=large

I've not seen any signs of buyer's remorse from any Kier voters yet. If *this* is what they actually I'm amazed they stuck with Corbyn for so long. But I suppose that is the nature of apolitical happy clappers.

onboard/contained

I think many of them had contaminated 99's from Owen Smith's Mr Melty ice cream van.

Somewhere between wavering and never - I think it's ony prudent to see how things play out but I don't have high hopes.

Even if you had low hopes they pretty much got dashed yesterday! I thought there might be some Kier voters despairing at a shadow cab with Streeting and JP.

messaging w/ ppl and I can tell they're hoping I'm going to offer some rousing morale-boosting sentiments and I'm just holding off on saying "mb see how it's going in 4-10 years??"

I think that timescale might be oppomistic, but these aren't ordinary times.. You never know.

I think you're right, just not sure it's good for him or the left at this stage

Halfway thru that sentence I realised it was patronising and none of my business really

There was an article over the weekend on the seat, not short of speaking on condition of anonymity

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/12/no-way-id-take-on-corbyn-labour-safe-seat-turns-toxic-over-mps-whip-removal

Yeah I saw that, or skimmed it. Nothing but Labour ogres dripping the line tho really?

Labour’s proposals to abolish the House of Lords are set to be watered down after an eleventh-hour row between Gordon Brown and Sir Keir Starmer’s advisers, The Times has learnt.

Preparations for the launch of a review of the constitution by the former prime minister have been overshadowed by internal tension over the scale and pace of reform of the upper house.

lol

Just waiting for the plans to end charitable status for private schools to go the same way.

I believe this is what electability looks like

The A-Team! @bh_younglabour on fine formidable form for the Wish by election. They’ve earned their lunch at The Stoneham Pub 😅 pic.twitter.com/AJ4trdSCLH

— Peter Kyle MP (@peterkyle) December 3, 2022

someone has been unkind enough to post that the little Tory shit in the middle looks like a youthful Heinrich Himmler

tbf focus groups are telling the Labour Party Heinrich Himmler appeals to Red Wall voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/22/labour-targets-new-swing-voter-middle-aged-mortgage-man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28ZB1t6gg8

look at the state of this lying fuck

In a discussion on how he "couldn't disagree with the basic case so many leave voters made to me", Starmer says yes, he campaigned for remain & voted for remain, but "we lost the referendum". Sophie Ridge reminds him he went on to lead the campaign for a second referendum #Ridge pic.twitter.com/vaCPzFCD7e

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) January 8, 2023

Am I wrong to think that constantly reminding people of Brexit is not a very good idea? Electorally, I mean.

he's trying so hard to yezhov that 2nd ref period of his career, ffs it was only 3 years ago and there are plenty of videos and quotes. Just admitting it would be so much easier than looking like a typical prevaricating slimeball pol!

this is it! any remotely competent hypocrite wd've come out with something along the lines of "i was in favour then but the politics has changed" but he just gawps like he hopes the question will vanish

do their focus groups ever tell them that just going with whatever their focus groups say will play best at any given moment doesn't actually play very well? that it kind of makes you look like a snake who can't be counted on for shit?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmBlbTvXoAAxb0M?format=jpg&name=medium

big dichter energy!

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/keir-starmer-labour-lammy-jobs-b2258114.html

Lammy is one of greediest and most owned by corporates MPs in the opposition, even greedier than some of the worst tories. Absolute piece of garbage.

How on Earth does David Lammy find time to do his actual 84k a year job? pic.twitter.com/3v0nMZoQVH

— j (@jrc1921) January 8, 2023

in the top half of the venality charts

I read one of his apologists posting that he has to accept the £87k from Global Radio because part of duties as an MP is to find the best platform to communicate with his constituents, ha ha!

Has it occurred to Reeves that if the capitalist system she's such a fan of actually worked then there'd be no need for political parties?

Oh wait, of course it has

it occurred to me that the stitch up they did on Lula (which was basically him staying at a holiday home owned by big construction or something) was nothing compared to what some of the busiest Labour Party p/t MP-f/t Lobbyists get up to.

'Bolder' Labour is it now.

Wes Streeting's plan to scrap the current GP system "was not raised at shadow cabinet and some sources suggest the potentially huge costs of scrapping the GP contract were not even run past Rachel Reeves," reveals @REWearmouth. https://t.co/2G4QrxHxR1

— George Eaton (@georgeeaton) January 9, 2023

Kieth throwing in with the terfs over the Scottish gender recognition bill just in case anyone harboured a shred of faith in these villains

centrism means never having to take your fingers out of your ears or open your eyes

ppl like Bastani and OJ will criticise him for this and carry on with the "lesser evil" defence of still voting for them, to say that is becoming a very untenable position is a fucking understatement.

Have the SNP started running candidates in England yet

Nic-Sturg would make a cracking Mayor of Batley!

Delighted as I am to see the back of Ian Blackford his replacement has a strong Dundonian accent and that is not a good thing. Not in the slightest.

lol

Who would be your dream dinner guest?

Probably Bruce Springsteen.

Big fan?

I am, yeah. It was a toss-up between him and Billy Joel there. I sound like my dad, actually. But, probably Springsteen. Big fan of his music – I’ve actually seen him quite a few times, too many times, maybe. I actually saw him in the States in my early 20s and he puts on a good gig. I’d love to sit down and have a chat with him about some of the folk he’s played with, like Bob Dylan and all that, I think it’d be a good chat. I say good chat – I’d probably just sit there in awe.

(born 13 October 1988)

Kieth throwing in with the terfs over the Scottish gender recognition bill just in case anyone harboured a shred of faith in these villains

Getting into bed with the Tories over the independence referendum pretty much destroyed the Labour Party in Scotland, now this fucking oaf has decided to repeat the exercise.

Look on the bright side, maybe he really doesn’t like Ian Murray

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmiiwT9XgAARdw_?format=jpg&name=large

who is the biggest wanker? Springsteen or drummer from Blur. You decide!

lol that he's enough of a simp to think renationalisation might be a serious Starmer agenda

"a solid aspirational vision", what a tosser

always love it when politics fans talk about "the brand" with a straight face, you can tell they're really passionate and have deeply-held beliefs

blur announce rhythm section for upcoming gigs:

https://www.ciaoitalia.com/wp-content/uploads/imported-files/2-Provolone-cheese-melt001.jpg

Labour to pledge rapid action on replenishing UK weapon stocks https://t.co/lPBuvTVJng

— The Guardian (@guardian) February 6, 2023

Some might say that this is a party of cunts, run by cunts, chasing the votes of simps

of course freunde

nothing worse than getting caught short without huge fucking stockpiles of anti-tank bazookas

it's nice that unfunded pledges are OK as long as they are going to the weapons of death industry rather than the NHS

i shall sleep easier in my bed

Guess what's being destroyed?

What makes this one especially egregious is that Broxtowe represents a model of the party as a hub of community organising. They fed 10,000 people during the pandemic. The absolute opposite of hollowed out, cartel party Starmer wants to erect. https://t.co/b2T9YO4rQd

— Keir Milburn (@KeirMilburn) February 28, 2023

This is how many times now, to a wall of fucking silence from a press pack that had screaming fits over any individual resignation letter they could lay their hands on 2015-19 https://t.co/wgc0THKVhg

— The Justin Horton Show (@ejhchess) February 28, 2023

I genuinely hope these spiteful scumbags somehow manage to fuck the next GE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64595772

it’s very strange from an American POV to see candidates with no ties to the area “selected” by the national party and parachuted in. in a way it’s kind of awe-inspiring that the party is that powerful. in another way it just sucks

A very sad evening as the right wing of DaWN Labour Party conclude 8 years of assault on Gipsy Hill Branch by abolishing us out of existence.
They stitched up our councillor selections, fabricated complaints against members, ignored our votes and now abolished us. Complete joke pic.twitter.com/3X2jMGl8di

— Ben Wiedel-Kaufmann (@benwwk) March 16, 2023