Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

football's back then. you could virtually see the covid in the air of the pub over the road, full of middle age football fans, the kind that wouldn't be seen dead in a mask. putting the toxic into toxic masculinity.

I think the only football rn is pre-season friendlies with unusually high attendances. Despite the sign on the local Onestop now politely requesting people wear masks rather than insisting - I've not seen any mask-less shoppers yet. The local pub last night though, jfc I'd have to have an industrial respirator and body suit to go in there.

this would be qpr, although pub was maybe away fans given the lack of colours. (man u apparently, seems a long way to come)

supermarket was probably 50/50 today, worse than usual but then i was 2 hrs later than usual.

putting the toxic into toxic masculinity.

Yes, it's overwhelmingly men I'm seeing without masks, young to middle-aged men.

Preventing infection might be *a* goal, but it can't be *the* goal. While the mRNA (at least) vaccines may or may not retain their effectiveness at preventing any infection, according to that article they do remain (so far) "more than 90 percent effective in preventing severe disease, and nearly as effective in preventing hospitalization." Or put another way, per someone in that Times article, "the goal of this vaccine is not to prevent mild or low, moderate infectious disease, the goal is to prevent hospitalization to death. Right now this vaccine has held up to that.” We've always known boosters were likely, even before there was a vaccine, and given the focus (in that article in general, or apparently in Israel specifically) on boosters to those most at risk, you've gotta assume the 10% or so for whom vaccination does not prevent severe disease or hospitalization remains the most vulnerable population, with various preexisting conditions or co-morbidities, which should make it easier to monitor or focus on booster administration, should it come to that.

It does seem frustrating to me that the prospect of a booster is coming before any of the vaccines have even received full FDA approval. FDA approval (here) would certainly bump the needle (so to speak) a little bit, in terms of getting shots in arms, or allowing schools and whatnot to require the vaccine. I live in a heavily vaxxed area, with people happy to get vaxxed, and yet the high school is still not requiring vaccines. I can only assume that's because they legally can't until the FDA formally gives it the OK.

I too read the article and thought, "Well, what's changed?" We knew we'd need boosters.

Re that new Israel data, the first question I’d have after “is this solid” is what shape is that curve after vaccination? We got our second Pfizer on April 1st so where does that put us after almost four months? But I’m getting ahead of myself.

I saw an article recently about how the UK was right to have a long gap between first and second doses because it does, in fact, make the vaccine more effective.

I’m thinking that “breakthrough” cases - that pretty much always end up being mild - will be par for the course if it’s been 6+ months since your last shot. Which is probably… good, right? A little booster of immunity all by itself.

But maybe not so good if you’re spreading it to unvaccinated people…. ugh

Eight weeks was the sweet spot, right? Suits me.

2xp

*is, rather

As far as I know, mild symptoms (that is, typical post-vax symptoms, should you even have any symptoms) make it pretty hard to pass on to anyone else.

I likely had a mild case of covid back in early March 2020 (and fwiw did not give it to anyone else in my family). Ever since then I've been participating in a Red Cross antibody study, and because of that I know my residual antibodies had been fading. March 2021 was when I got fully vaxxed, but the Red Cross was still interesting in tracking the strength of my antibodies. For bureaucratic reasons I can't get tested again until mid-August, which will be almost six months post vaccine, but I'll report back what they tell me once I get my results a few weeks after that.

The thing that drives me nuts about the Israel study is that it's all I heard about yesterday despite it not being peer reviewed, published, and despite one of the study's committee members (Ran Balicer) saying to take the results with a grain of salt.

The NEJM published study showing 88% efficiency from three days ago, I didn't hear anything about until Eric Took used it yesterday to contrast the Israel study. It's like we only believe negative news re: COVID anymore

*Topol

Truthfully we shouldn't treat any one "efficiency" study as gospel anyway.

i thought this was the appropriate thread for this particular rational/irrational vent

oh it is! just to be clear i"m not objecting to you posting that. I'm complaining about the media's coverage of it.

I apologize that I didn't make that clear.

(mostly because a dear friend of mine, single mother of 3, started ugly-crying last night because her favorite immunologist shared the study as if it was gospel and made no mention of the NEJM study or other recent studies, basically addressed her audience as if "welp, this is the new efficiency, guess vaccines don't work against symptomatic infection anymore". gave her an outright panic attack)

But maybe not so good if you’re spreading it to unvaccinated people…. ugh

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, July 24, 2021 9:36 AM bookmarkflaglink

I think the good news here is that if you're vaccinated and get infected, they have noted a 50% less likelihood of spreading and a much decreased viral load, fortunately. but it is still a worry, yes

I saw an article recently about how the UK was right to have a long gap between first and second doses because it does, in fact, make the vaccine more effective.

― Wouldn't disgrace a Michael Jackson (Tom D.), Saturday, July 24, 2021 9:22 AM bookmarkflaglink

yeah supposedly it boosts antibodies a bit.

lol Neanderthal no worries :)

My wife said about a quarter of the shoppers at our local outside farmers market were masked this morning. I just had to pick something up at a remote Best Buy in the far West suburbs, and I'd say a smaller percentage than that was masked. Some entire families, the occasional staff member, the occasional couple, the occasional solo shopper. I have to keep reminding myself that even in heavily vaxxed areas there are still 20% or so who have not been vaxxed, or maybe aren't fully vaxxed yet.

I saw an article recently about how the UK was right to have a long gap between first and second doses because it does, in fact, make the vaccine more effective.

― Wouldn't disgrace a Michael Jackson (Tom D.), Saturday, July 24, 2021 9:22 AM bookmarkflaglink

yeah supposedly it boosts antibodies a bit.

― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Saturday, July 24, 2021 2:55 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Although that also leaves a longer time for semi-vaccinated people to potentially become infected. Which is where other tactics come into play, i.e. distancing, masks etc. Someone tell the UK government!

Re: ideal time between jabs, these conversations never seem to talk about differences between the vacines in that context, yet at least the initial periods were different depending on which one you got - was that just a formality?

https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1419193587170959361

do tweet not auto-embed anymore?

I'm seeing "You’re unable to view this Tweet because this account owner limits who can view their Tweets."

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - I guess you have to be a follower to read.

that's fairly ridiculous when you're a Tweeter actually sharing helpful information on the pandemic. I guess he's getting attacked a lot but geez.

will see if I can share a screenshot.

Would anyone stop me if I went to Walgreens and asked for a third shot?

I've definitely been considering layering some AZ on top of my pfizzer.

walgreens won't do it if 1) you gave your insurance details for the first two shots, and again attempting to get a third 2) your name is recorded in a state database vaccinated people database (e.g. california).

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-07-01/reports-of-some-getting-pfizer-moderna-boosters-after-j-j-vaccine-prompts-calls-for-more-guidance

but my freedom

we have a billboard here that says "The Covid-19 Vaccine: It's Up To You". it means to say "it's up to us to end the pandemic" but instead comes off like "get the shot or not, whatever"

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/26/1020866546/infectious-disease-specialist-discusses-whether-the-u-s-is-over-testing-for-covi

Early in the pandemic, there were not enough coronavirus tests to keep track of the disease. Now the U.S. might be facing something like the opposite problem. Dr. Monica Gandhi argues that too many vaccinated people are getting tested and finding out they have a breakthrough infection even if they don't have any symptoms. Dr. Gandhi studies infectious diseases at the University of California San Francisco and joins us to explain.

Dr. goes on to say, yeah, people are testing positive despite viral loads too small to really spread. But then she is asked about the Delta variant and says:

I think the delta variant is a different beast. I think that it is something that has a higher viral load, which is why we are seeing now more symptomatic breakthroughs in people who are vaccinated - not that they're severe breakthroughs. It's still true that 99.6% of people in the hospital right now with SARS-CoV-2 in our country are unvaccinated. But there are more symptomatic breakthroughs. You're all hearing this - more of a mild cold, or even can feel like you have a flu. We need to know if those people can transmit. It's likely that they can, though, because there is higher viral loads with the delta variant - so another reason why viral load is incredibly important now when we discuss breakthroughs at this point with the delta variant.

So what the fuck was the point of the initial piece?

i know four friends with breakthroughs now.

really sad to see the vaccines don't work.

getting unvaccinated as we speak

I would get unvaccinated but I'm really loving this 5G

we have a billboard here that says "The Covid-19 Vaccine: It's Up To You". it means to say "it's up to us to end the pandemic" but instead comes off like "get the shot or not, whatever"

― frogbs, Monday, July 26, 2021 11:22 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Looked into this and found an article about the campaign:

That night Pereira sent a slide deck of the concept to campaign coordinators at the Ad Council. They quickly signed off on the idea, though some were initially incredulous that such a deferential tagline could be the pillar of an energetic public education campaign. “ ‘It’s Up to You’?” Bridgeland of the Covid Collaborative remembers thinking. It was so different from, say, the rousing spirit of the campaign to build volunteerism after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. “What about, ‘It’s Up to Us’? ... We need a greater sense of we.” But he was persuaded by the research showing that wasn’t how to talk to an atomized, mistrustful America.

Pereira’s team began drafting scripts and scenarios for how “It’s Up to You” could be customized for different audiences. Apaliski designed a logo in the shape of an adhesive bandage with “It’s Up to You” in the center. Much of the creative material and underlying research would be open-source on the Ad Council site, meant to be borrowed and co-branded by allies in the education effort. “The only way to tackle a problem this big is to create something almost like the DNA of a campaign that we can give to the entire marketing and publishing and tech ecosystem and say, ‘Go do it,’ ” Pereira says. “If we go the traditional route” of a top-down, one-agency campaign, “we are not going to be able to go as deep and as fast as we want.”

As a final check that the slogan would resonate with hesitaters — and that they wouldn’t interpret “It’s Up to You” as “It’s Optional” — Nunez tested it in a survey squeezed between Christmas and New Year’s Eve. The message clicked. “Everyone was thrilled,” Nunez says, “because we didn’t have much more time to come up with something else.”

sad lol

I wish I could get unvaccinated so that I can get revaccinated and win an empanada or a gift card or lottery ticket. I feel ripped off that when I got vaccinated all I got was likely protection against a deadly disease for me and my loved ones.

I know people who said there was coffee and donuts at their vaxx place and I'm like, why did I even bother?

at Cabaret Lido they give you a free facesitting with your shot

When my daughter got her first shot she could I guess get a free Krispy Kreme donut, but then I heard that anyone could get a free donut, vaxxed or not, and I was, like, why bother?

Just in the last week I've seen a noticeable increase in mass wearing here.

Three weeks after restrictions lifted here, cases in Seattle have increased 130%, and twenty separate restaurants were identified yesterday as breakthrough infection sites (ie vaccinated ppl catching it). Local health depts covering 58% of Washington State's population formally recommended people individually going back to indoor masking, in lieu of being able to mandate.

CDC expected to recommend masks for everyone in K-12, regardless of vaccination status, and reverse indoor mask policy for COVID hot spots. I know I'm a minority here on this opinion but, jesus, it's almost as if those numbnuts shouldn't have jumped the gun on telling everyone to rip them off in the first place.

in fairness, they did establish at the time that masks could come back if conditions changed. people heard it as a permanent edict though.

xpost Nah, I'm right there with you. I thought it was grossly irresponsible at the time and well (gestures wildly at increasing number of people falling ill)

Of course people thought it meant 'masks off forever!'. Of course unvaccinated people figured that it applied to them, as well. People are primed to hear what they want to hear after a year and a half of this shit. Which is why people in a position of authority need to err on the side of caution when issuing guidance.

^^^^ OL otm. I don't think it's fair to blame the average vaccinated Joe for going unmasked when that was largely the message being sent and reinforced. I'm sorry that it's hard for them, but they need to think how the messaging is going to land.