Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

the phrase “any governor anywhere” in the italics is prob an exaggeration, there’s a big difference between inslee, the gov of a blue state who just won re-election, and whitmer, the gov of a purple state who’s up in 2022

Yeah, needless to say, my original intent was more or less in line with that.

https://www.mic.com/p/why-this-miami-private-school-doesnt-want-their-teachers-vaccinated-75005019

An interesting article that delves a little more deeply into that Miami school from yesterday, and a little bit into where that whole "menstrual cycle" thing came from - wellness influencers.

The thing is that while this may all sound high-key batshit to science-loving people, Centner’s argument is not actually coming from some fringe element. Centner’s statement was based on widely circulating misinformation that COVID-19 vaccines can shed from one person to another and lead to infertility problems. Where is this “information” coming from? Wellness influencers, for one.

Internet health gurus, unfortunately, don’t limit their sphere of “expertise” to anti-aging serums. Two well-known anti-vaxx influencers who have relatives enrolled at The Centner School publicly praised the school. “Spent some time with Kelly Brogan, MD, one of my soul sisters and a fellow warrior who also made the famous Disinformation Dozen list,” Christiane Northrup posted on Facebook Monday. “We both have children (grandchildren in my case) who go to the Centner Academy, a miraculous school in Miami. We are keeping the vibration of joy and grounding as high as we possibly can!”

the vibration of joy and grounding

keep it high

yeah, the Miami Herald article mentioned crystals. Here's the overlap between New Age liberal anti-vaccers and Trumpist ones.

Interesting long piece in the second half of this week's This American Life, where a long-time Republican focus-group / policy-marketing dude attempts to apply his trade to persuading a focus group of vaccine-hesitant Trump voters.

Listened to this earlier today. I'm glad it took a turn, because the first half was making me so disheartened. The lady who worked for a pharma company and believed in all vaccines, just not when "the government tells me to take one" killed me.

what is it that these people don't like about the government exactly

that it hasn't yet gone full fascist

It has Democrats in it

It just doesn't *feel* right.

Like, I get it. People don't like being told what to do, even if it's in their own best interest. Yesterday I went to donate blood, and for the first time ever failed my hemoglobin test and was denied. I mean, what the fuck, it was barely below the minimum, I'm just trying to help you out, you know? So I walk over to the snack table, dejected (they told me to help myself to snacks), and I started talking to a friend who was waiting there, post-donation. She was shocked I was done already, too, and after I explained that and why I was denied this old lady came up to me and began to lecture me about getting blood work done. She went on and on about the Red Cross hemoglobin test possibly being inaccurate, and the even greater possibility that donating blood on a regular, every-56-days schedule might leave me with a low iron level, but she kept insisting I still get bloodwork done, just to be safe. And I kept saying, no, I don't want any fucking bloodwork done, I've never had an issue with low iron before, why would I go to my doctor voluntarily just to get an optional test that will no doubt get me stuck with a surprisingly big bill that only proves I'm as healthy as I think I am? I mean, fuck that, right? And she looks at me, and gets up close (she's wearing a mask, but still) and says, lowering her voice, "do *I* look unhealthy to you?" She's probably at least 30 years older than me, so my first thought is, well, you look pretty old, so I assume you have at least a few issues. I keep that to myself and just dodge, reiterating that every time I go to the doctor for anything other than my annual physical I get stuck with a bill that makes me feel stupid for even going. I say some version of "I just don't want to waste the time and money based on nothing more than a random finger test at the blood drive." And she shrugs, waves me off, and mutters "what do I care, it's your health," then walks away. And I think, damn straight, the Red Cross *wishes* they had my awesome blood today, and then I leave (with my free snack).

And this morning I went in to my doctor for a blood test, just to be safe, because the old lady was probably right.

That's what I'm hoping ultimately plays out with vaccine skeptics, that after instinctively talking a bunch of contrarian shit they gradually come around and do the right thing.

multiple xp

So . . . it is coming from some fringe element?

The lady who worked for a pharma company and believed in all vaccines, just not when "the government tells me to take one" killed me.

haha, yes. the specific nature of what starts to turn the members is painfully disheartening though.

these places are still open, capacity limits are not shutdowns

many places will be forced to shutdown if they cannot actually operate at 25% capacity tho (many places have not reopened at 50%)

Tbf, the government's record of using certain populations as guinea pigs does not inspire confidence in those populations. To lay the blame squarely on those populations seems a little harsh...

that said, the government's record of testing drugs and diseases on middle and upper-middle class white suburbanites is non-existent, so a large percentage of these anti-vaxxers are merely seeing a threat where there is none. It's just part of the culture.

Like, am I surprised when I see anti-vax stuff from Black people? Not really. I'm dismayed, but not surprised.

But Karen Smith of Windsong Lane in The Dalles wants to pretend like the government is victimizing her.

In many ways, it's a simple case of white folks displacing their fear of the Other onto the government, and creating a conspiracy out of that displacement.

Moderna #2 in the arm as of an hour ago, now to just wait and see if I hit the side effects bingo.

wow, congrats. I feel especially happy for you, jon, considering where you've been the last three months.

Thanks, I am definitely in a much better place mentally. Upon some reflection, I think all of my anxieties and fears from the past year or so got so engrained into the idea of vaccination because it was such a concrete step/process that I could wrap my arms around, while everything else remains to vague and on the periphery. Not an excuse or deflection of course, but I would even be more disappointed in myself if I hadn't taken this as a chance to learn why it manifested in the ways it did.

for whoever said they had a big-brained herd immunity facebook acquaintance promoting the barriongton declaration:

On 11 Jan, Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University (and of the Great Barrington Declaration) wrote that the majority of Indians are already immune and that vaccinating them would be unethical. pic.twitter.com/Q0AQXuPTO3

— אמירות נכונות לשעתן (@nehonotlishatan) April 26, 2021

haha, yes. the specific nature of what starts to turn the members is painfully disheartening though.

please post a spoiler, i can't listen to NPR

Essentially it was Chris Christie joining in with the focus group to talk about how he got it and how sick he had been and that even young, healthy Hope Hicks (who ran 4-5 miles per day) was knocked flat for a long time, but what really seemed to do it was Christie talking about his 64 year old cousin and her 63 year old, longshoreman husband getting it and both passing away.

It's disheartening because this is nothing new. We've been hearing about otherwise strong and healthy people dying from it for a year now, but it apparently takes a politician "on their side" telling his personal story to move the needle.

Is the "long-time Republican focus-group / policy-marketing dude" Frank Luntz?

Yep.

from the transcript of the episode:

David Kestenbaum - Christie was the first person to tell an actual story. I hadn't heard all the details before. This all happened when he was helping prep the first presidential debate.

Chris Christie - And there were seven people in the Map Room at the White House for about 16 hours over four days together. And of those seven people, six of them got COVID. In the place that was the safest, most tested place in America.

I got it, and Hope Hicks got it, and Kellyanne Conway got it, and the president got it. Bill Stepien got it. And Stephen Miller. All of us got it. All of us got it at a bit of a different time. And all of us got it at a bit of a different severity. And by randomness, I mean, I was the sickest of everybody, and had the longest hospitalization.

The next sickest person was the president. But the next sickest person after that was Hope Hicks, who was the youngest and most fit person in that room. Someone who, you know, ran four to five miles every day, in her early 30s, and was the most fit. She was out of it for a good 10 days, and never had to be hospitalized. But called me during it, and told me it was the sickest she'd ever been.

Two other people in my family, a 64-year-old cousin, who was a smoker. And so she had some potential problem, got it. Felt OK in the beginning, wound up hospitalized. Her husband, 63, no preexisting conditions, great shape. In fact, was still working every day as an active longshoreman on the docks in New Jersey. He got sick as well. Caught it presumably from his wife. They both wound up being hospitalized. And two weeks ago, they both passed away.

David Kestenbaum - It wasn't hard to read the room. Everyone was paying attention. One person said, "I wasn't expecting him to say that, that they had passed away." Two were surprised to hear that Hope Hicks ran four miles a day and had still gotten so sick. Christie told them he sympathized with their skepticism about politicians on this issue. Like the presidents in that vaccine PSA, "Listen," he said. "I know all those people. I've met all those people. I'm not asking them whether I should take the vaccine."

Oh yeah, I think I heard about that.

Two were surprised to hear that Hope Hicks ran four miles a day and had still gotten so sick.

I would be surprised, too, if I hadn't read a bunch of similar stories 12 months ago!

Right! Which is why is was so disheartening, this isn't new!

second Moderna yesterday and goddamn these side effects have knocked me flat, haven't been this sick in ages

Especially dispiriting that it's someone from the cast of The Trump Show that gets them to turn, even though it's someone who has been demeaned, derided, and excluded by Trump himself repeatedly. They don't even have an awareness or analysis of who is trustworthy by Trump's lights, apparently vaguely remembering that their names were in the same news report a few times is enough for belief by association. Homeopathic reliability.

sic otm

ums - congrats! Sorry to hear about the side effects. I'm patiently waiting to see what happens to me with Moderna #2. What was your experience after the first dose?

Also the noises of satisfaction and agreement when Christie assures them that "Politicians screw up almost everything we touch. We really do. We just do," and avers that his own personal idiocy and incompetence are the reason that they should listen to him. And they do!

Precisely, even though earlier in the group they had each said that including Trump himself in the president's PSA wouldn't have convinced them either. It's infuriating.

The train of logic is so fluid, it's depressing. There's no solid bedrock of thought, just situational responses.

Logical trains of thought are for crybaby libs.

I also got my second Moderna yesterday and yeah it's been no joke.

honestly they just need to inject fuckin Frosted Mini Wheats and Fruity Pebbles with mRNA and just not tell anybody

thanks! feels weird to think that I made it


first dose was ok, felt a little tired (but frankly I spent 8 hours in the car driving from Mpls to Fargo/Moorhead and back in one day so I think that had a lot to do with it)

this time I have it all, aches, chills, fatigue, bad digestion, the whole works

basically it's just like a pretty bad flu, had to call in to work

Any advice or ways to prepare for the onslaught? Or just ride it out? The nurse giving me the jab said it would peak about 12 hours later, so I should drink plenty of water and take a Tylenol before bed.

I took tomorrow off in preparation, just in case, glad I did so.

that's really all I did, was just wait it out. I didn't know what was coming so I was late on the Tylenol, but you can be more proactive with it. taking the day off a smart idea. everyone's reaction is diff but for many people it just kinda.....abruptly backs off all of a sudden.

I've also heard screaming "death to false metal!" helps but maybe that was just me

Haha, I'll try that. I do need to give the new Cannibal Corpse a spin yet. Yeah, the one consistent thing I've heard is that it just seems to end really abruptly.

My wife got her second Moderna on Monday afternoon, and was generally fine until the next afternoon, when she got really achy and tired. A nap aside, though, it was manageable with acetaminophen, and she was pretty much all better by this morning. Super psyched to hang out in small mask-free gatherings outside.

My email from CVS said to drink 16 oz of water an hour before which I did. And I drank a lot of water after. I did get a Pfizer shot though.

Anything I felt was so mild it was hard to determine if it was a side effect or just how I usually feel much of the time.

Don't take Tylenol before the jab. Indulge freely afterwards.

2nd Pfizer dose next week. Was very impressed with the efficiency and friendliness of med staff, coordinators, and recipients at the Microsoft campus getting shot 1. Working to keep that happy relief dominant over the fearmongering re: variant spreads, WA resurgence, and effectiveness. One nice thing living here is that developing this protocol will help speed future inoculations. I'd expect this to roll into the regularly scheduled flu vaccinations at work.

Chris Christie:

I mean, I was the sickest of everybody

Debatable

I'm about 24 hours post Pfizer dose 2 and so far so good. Felt a little "weird" this morning when I woke up but that could have just been pre-coffee reverie.

My Pfizer dose 2 side effects mostly felt like a hangover, tbh. Tired, achy, bad headache. Took a few days to feel back to 100%, but the worst was pretty manageable.

felt a little fatigue about 24 hours after pfizer dose 2 for me, but other than that, nothing

there's no dodging the side effects if you get them as far as i can tell. but i haven't met ANYONE who has had them last beyond a few days.

this is a thing:
https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/the-mark-of-the-beast-victorian-britains-anti-vaxxer-movement

http://the-public-domain-review.imgix.net/essays/the-mark-of-the-beast-victorian-britains-anti-vaxxer-movement/the-cow-pock.jpg