2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

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who will/would you vote for, if you have or were to have a vote

Poll Results

OptionVotes
bernie sanders 110
joe biden 21
I would/will abstain 7


k3vin k., Friday, 6 March 2020 22:04 (one month ago) link

If I could I'd vote for Bernie, but he just died.

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:09 (one month ago) link

good luck usanders

strangely hookworm but they manage ream shoegaze poetry (imago), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:11 (one month ago) link

La Riva/Peltier 2020

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:12 (one month ago) link

Ahem we have unfinished business leftover from prev thread
_-------------------
Milo has herpes?

― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, March 6, 2020 5:10 PM bookmarkflaglink

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:19 (one month ago) link

HPV like Michael Douglas

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:24 (one month ago) link

/lost beastie boys lyrics

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 6 March 2020 22:31 (one month ago) link

I was prepared to vote for Bernie in the CA primary but if I were faced with this choice now I honestly don't know... kinda glad I'm not tbh. Abstaining.

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 March 2020 22:37 (one month ago) link

shocked u arent taking the hardbitten strategic sure-loser route

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 March 2020 23:22 (one month ago) link

you wrong person you

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 March 2020 23:22 (one month ago) link

I think they both suck for very different reasons tbh

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 March 2020 23:28 (one month ago) link

🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486393-trump-calls-inslee-a-snake-amid-coronavirus-outbreak-in-washington

Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Friday, 6 March 2020 23:39 (one month ago) link

🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍 👏 🐍

Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Friday, 6 March 2020 23:39 (one month ago) link

I appreciate Trump revitalizing the snake discourse!

JoeStork, Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:13 (one month ago) link

Did he make a hissing sound?

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:14 (one month ago) link

the hissing of summer pawns

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:16 (one month ago) link

I forgot Inslee was in the damn primary, this shit goes on waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:29 (one month ago) link

Holy shit, is that the snake icon?! I swear to god I thought it was a green swan, and I was all, green swan? What's up with that? Green swan event?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:47 (one month ago) link

over the course of today I went from distant optimism for sanders' prospects to total and complete doom. which is good in a sense cause now I can ~let goooo~

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:50 (one month ago) link

green swan deal

El Tomboto, Saturday, 7 March 2020 00:53 (one month ago) link

swan green deal

Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Saturday, 7 March 2020 01:02 (one month ago) link

giant swan deal

https://youtu.be/dQm4mxRJgtU

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 01:03 (one month ago) link

write-in vote for jeb!

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 7 March 2020 01:57 (one month ago) link

Would that it were Inslee!

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:22 (one month ago) link

So what stunt can Bernie pull to get some good vibes at least going again? Cuz he needs one right about now.

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:25 (one month ago) link

This is some pretty good calculus:

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/06/elizabeth-warren-should-endorse-bernie-sanders/

Warren’s longterm threat to Biden and the party establishment is only as strong as her ties to the progressive movement, and the same is true of an eventual endorsement of Biden. Her value in a general election to Biden is her ability to bring Biden the progressive vote and help him unite the disparate wings of the party. Clearly, then, Warren is more valuable to Biden as an eventual endorser if she can actually bring progressives with her, and the most effective way she can do that is if she has endorsed and campaigned for Sanders. The same calculation was true in 2016. Warren’s endorsement of Clinton would have been more valuable to Clinton had Warren originally endorsed Sanders, and would have had more of a unifying effect than it ultimately did. Had Warren endorsed Sanders first, she’d likely have been able to bring more Sanders people with her when she switched to Clinton.

The other possibility — that with Warren’s endorsement, Sanders might surge back and claim the nomination — would also be a boon to Warren, who could name her position(s) in the new administration. And, indeed, with an unstable president and an unpredictable pandemic, any outcome is possible. But given the possible head-to-heads in the general election, and Biden’s demonstrated inability to campaign effectively, there’s more likely to be an administration for Warren to serve with Sanders as the nominee.

But, again, if Sanders falls short, and Warren and Sanders both endorse Biden, she will, paradoxically, have done Biden a significant favor by previously endorsing against him.

DJI, Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:25 (one month ago) link

I would be delighted to be proven wrong but I really, really don't think that endorsement is on the way.

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:35 (one month ago) link

I was about to read that but the intercept

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:45 (one month ago) link

Ugh. Same here on both counts

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:45 (one month ago) link

Xp

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:46 (one month ago) link

if you can read the NYT/WaPo or watch MSNBC clips you can read the intercept ffs, the bullshit ratio is similar if not better

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:52 (one month ago) link

why in the name of all that’s holy would I watch MSNBC clips?

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:54 (one month ago) link

Did The Nation endorsing Bernie make waves... anywhere? (obv. not in results but it's weird to think about how little anyone pays attention to the only lefty media you could find in most places in the '90s)

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:54 (one month ago) link

I had no idea so I'm gonna say no

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:55 (one month ago) link

I don't think a Warren endorsement would be that valuable at this point, enough time has passed that anyone who pays enough attention to her to care about her endorsement knows it would be grudging.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 7 March 2020 02:56 (one month ago) link

I appreciate the 5D CHESS!! of “Warren should def endorse Bernie to make her Biden endorsement more meaningful.”

idk why anyone in Bernie’s camp wants her endorsement. they’ve spent the past couple of months convincing me she’s Not A Real Progressive.

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:01 (one month ago) link

by "his camp" do you mean snotty young supporters or the actual campaign

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:03 (one month ago) link

I was an Inslee stan till last August. Wish it gave me a warmer feeling to see him back in the news.

One of 10 candidates I'd prefer to the current options.

sedated, paralyzed, on respirator, slowly drowning (Sanpaku), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:06 (one month ago) link

That describes only 5% of the Bernie camp folks I know, but whatever, I feel like we’ve flogged this horse to a pulp in the previous thread

Xp to roger

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:09 (one month ago) link

I don't think a Warren endorsement would be that valuable at this point, enough time has passed that anyone who pays enough attention to her to care about her endorsement knows it would be grudging.

I think a well-timed Warren endorsement could have done a lot to make the Sanders campaign seem less ideologically isolated, which in turn might have helped with the credibility issue, the sense that he's promising outlandish ideas no one else thinks is worth pursuing, that he's not really "serious." It wouldn't just be about bringing her (whatever) % into the fold, it would be to help say, "hey, these views are representative of a certain wing of the party." And most people aren't really paying a ton of attention to the insider beef shit.

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:14 (one month ago) link

by "his camp" do you mean snotty young supporters or the actual campaign


yes

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:17 (one month ago) link

Yeah and also more simplistically sometimes just that shot of juice / endorphins that a symbolic act like an endorsement provides can do wonders for the whole spirit around a campaign . Right now Bernie-land is pretty morose.

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:21 (one month ago) link

Xp again

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:21 (one month ago) link

otm

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:22 (one month ago) link

I almost want AOC to unendorse Bernie so she could re-endorse him again

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:36 (one month ago) link

She should unendorse him go to endorse Biden and then do the "too slow" handshake thing.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 7 March 2020 03:41 (one month ago) link

Sanders and Warren embraced getting rid of private insurance in favor of Medicare for All, a position that is controversial even among Democrats and was easy for the center left to cast as both impractical and a barrier to defeating Trump.

medicare for all is a moral imperative

treeship., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:21 (two days ago) link

the party that's moving left nominated what many of you believe is a right-wing rapist? how do you reconcile those two positions?

xps

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:21 (two days ago) link

lol finish the article, alfred

― k3vin k., Wednesday, April 8, 2020

I did. I posted the relevant points.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:22 (two days ago) link

The people are moving left, but The Party Decides

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:22 (two days ago) link

this is otm too:

Like a lot of things, the truth here probably lies somewhere in between these two arguments. Sanders and Warren struggled in 2020 because of big, structural factors outside of their control, but also because of a few major missteps along the way. Anyway, does it really matter if Sanders’s likely loss was 20 percent, 50 percent or 80 percent his fault?

Yes, actually. There is already a discussion underway about what the party’s left wing should do in the future. One view, which fits with the general argument that left-wing Democrats faced structural challenges in 2020, is that time is on the side of the progressives. Younger Democrats tend to support more liberal candidates, so the party could gradually move left as the millennial and Gen Z generations become larger shares of the electorate.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:23 (two days ago) link

"Time" isn't on the side of anyone, unless corona lockdown lasts for 15 years and miraculously heals the environment.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:23 (two days ago) link

re. the chef link, ew.

enought ilx for me. good knowing you all.

treeship., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:24 (two days ago) link

Maybe hatred for trump will deliver this election to Feely Joe, I suppose we should hope so, because it won’t be campaigning, policy, personal popularity, turnout, ground organizing, or electoral college math that does it

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:24 (two days ago) link

Might also be Trump getting covid and dying, tbf.

extremely Dutch coughing sound (gyac), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:27 (two days ago) link

We should be so lucky

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:27 (two days ago) link

Hatred for Trump depends entirely on5 the economy and death toll

so uh fingers crossed for Great Depression II: Electric Boogaloo I guess
too bad Joe's gonna be Hoover rather than FDR

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:29 (two days ago) link

the party that's moving left nominated what many of you believe is a right-wing rapist? how do you reconcile those two positions?

xps

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:21 PM (thirty seconds ago)

are you responding to me or the amalgam of all the bernie voters you've argued with on the internet? I am my own person with my own POV. I agree with you that biden is essentially an amoral weathervane, one who for obvious reasons is not the person for this moment but is better than the alternative.

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:29 (two days ago) link

you have to be nice to me or i wont vote for democrats https://t.co/VA6F3w57oP

— Garbage Ape 🗑 🦧 (@GarbageApe) April 8, 2020

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:32 (two days ago) link

still find the argument that Biden has no beliefs/ideology ridiculous, he's taken a lead on every shitty idea that he hasn't been made to answer for. He's committed to the neoliberal project/austerity/centrism/whatever you want to call it as much as anyone on Earth. He has been consistent about this for five decades, there's no flip flopping in his past.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:33 (two days ago) link

i've said it before and i'll say it again: weighing in on the credibility of people's sexual assault survival stories should be a bannable offense

― here 1st (roxymuzak), 8. april 2020 18:08 (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

What the fuck do you call this:

'violently angry at being asked to vote for the lesser of two rapists

― here 1st (roxymuzak), 8. april 2020 17:45 (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ban yourself, please.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:37 (two days ago) link

are you serious?

forensic plumber (harbl), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:38 (two days ago) link

He's being an ally

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:38 (two days ago) link

Fred B serious question not trying to troll: can your own family even stand you?

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:38 (two days ago) link

at the end of the day I feel like Biden winning has less to do with policy and more to do with the fact that people just really, really want politics out of their lives, they will take a boring and crappy administration if it means having to not think about this for another 4 years

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:39 (two days ago) link

I got baaaaf news for them

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:39 (two days ago) link

d*

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:40 (two days ago) link

baaaaf

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:40 (two days ago) link

Sanders and Warren did not focus enough on convincing voters that they were as electable as Biden, even as polls showed Democratic voters were obsessed with picking a candidate who could beat Trump.

didn't those same shows also show sanders and warren resoundingly winning over donald trump in head to head matchups, ahead of even biden at some points?

let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:40 (two days ago) link

I did. I posted the relevant points.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:22 PM (seven minutes ago)

homie the whole point of that article is that those bullet points are reductive and only tell part of the story. fortifying those talking points instead of exploring their nuances is something that party apparatchiks (a term you introduced this board to) do to stifle discussion. when you and I posted on these politics threads a decade ago you were someone who was much more comfortable with heterodoxy

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:42 (two days ago) link

apparently the Family Feud voters don't read polls! they just stick their thumb in their ass and guess.

go to choir, fred

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:42 (two days ago) link

fred how on earth is that post helpful

k3vin k., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:43 (two days ago) link

Fred loves hleping

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:43 (two days ago) link

didn't those same shows also show sanders and warren resoundingly winning over donald trump in head to head matchups, ahead of even biden at some points?

― let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, April 8, 2020

as k3vin pointed out upthread, the article's complicated, and in the end it was many things coalescing.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:43 (two days ago) link

homie the whole point of that article is that those bullet points are reductive and only tell part of the story. fortifying those talking points instead of exploring their nuances is something that party apparatchiks (a term you introduced this board to) do to stifle discussion. when you and I posted on these politics threads a decade ago you were someone who was much more comfortable with heterodoxy

― k3vin k., Wednesday, April 8, 2020

You may be right, dude. Let's say political events particularly dangerous to my ethnic and sexual background has forced me to be starker about choices. Few people have; in some of your posts, I'd suggest you have too. So I apologize for concentrating on excerpted points.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:45 (two days ago) link

Few people haven't become starker, I should've said.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:46 (two days ago) link

part of the disappointment with biden is that if the establishment/DNC types were going to go with a nominee, they could have picked any number of people who would have better (much better, in some cases)

ranked:

harris
booker
klob (uuuugh)
gillibrand
biden
pete

let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:47 (two days ago) link

Let me also say that I'm comfortable in this present crisis saving the heterodoxy for art, history, and choice of amaros. I'm at war with the GOP.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:48 (two days ago) link

Karl, the DNC picked Biden?

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:49 (two days ago) link

nah, they’re donors did

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:51 (two days ago) link

their

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:51 (two days ago) link

star chamber iirc

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:51 (two days ago) link

I'm at war with the GOP.

If only Joe was!

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:53 (two days ago) link

Gonna get Corn Pop, the ghost of Strom Thurmond and McConnell in a room and we're gonna hash out some good deals.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:53 (two days ago) link

Lol

Thank you @BernieSanders, for fighting so relentlessly for America’s working families during this campaign. Your fight for progressive ideas moved the conversation and charted a path for candidates and activists that will change the course of our country and party.

— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) April 8, 2020

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:54 (two days ago) link

The ratio is...not good enough so far

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:55 (two days ago) link

imagine thinking that Fox keeps gop voters in lockstep, but an endless parade of ppl on “liberal” cable news telling primary boomer voters that Bernie is the worst person alive beside drumph has zero effect

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:56 (two days ago) link

I guess she finished recovering from wrapping up the campaign/SNL appearances/etc.?

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:57 (two days ago) link

Karl, the DNC picked Biden?

no. that's why i said "the establishment/DNC types". this is the part where you point out that people of color chose biden, and overwhelmingly rejected warren and sanders. that's part of the reason (a good reason!) why the establishment was nervous about sanders and warren and threw their support behind those they thought were more "electable", like joe fucking biden. this is the part where i point out that i didn't include warren or sanders in my list above - i just included more centrist/establishment/"DNC types" candidates that would have been better than joe fucking biden

let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 16:57 (two days ago) link

all y'all clowning on the warren tweet are clowns

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 17:04 (two days ago) link

🤡🤡🤡

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 17:05 (two days ago) link

one of his top surrogates, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, conceded in February that a Medicare buy-in might be all that could get passed in Congress, at least in the short term

wait, what? Did AOC go squishy on M4A? iirc not being full-throated on M4A was what sank Warren's candidacy, or so I've been reliably informed.

Does that mean AOC is now going to be canceled for this craven "concession" to centrist realpolitik?

Sanders and Warren did not focus enough on convincing voters that they were as electable as Biden

How could they have done this "convincing" except by asserting this contention? Which iirc they did. People weren't convinced, as the record shows.

cuomo money, cuomo problems (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:18 (two days ago) link

the only thing to do is fearlessly advocate for what you think is right and try to convince as many people of your side as possible. that is what bernie did and with good results, just not as good as we would have hoped.

treeship., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:20 (two days ago) link

who the fuck knows what is "electable" if biden is. or trump!

treeship., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:20 (two days ago) link

the only thing to do is fearlessly advocate for what you think is right and try to convince as many people of your side as possible. that is what bernie did and with good results less numerical/electoral success than in 2016

Sanders (and others) advocated for positions that have become increasingly popular/tenable within the Democratic party. Good for him, and good for the people who might eventually one day benefit slightly from a sold-out, watered-down version of those positions. I look forward to his continuing to do that for the rest of his life. Or he could retire and go do Good Deeds, like Jimmy Carter.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:33 (two days ago) link


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