The Battle of Mia Farrow's Creepy Exes: FRANK SINATRA vs. WOODY ALLEN

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no one cares about Andre Previn

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Frank Sinatra 21
Woody Allen 14


Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:42 (one year ago) link

are we voting for the creepiest?

The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:43 (one year ago) link

frank

american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:46 (one year ago) link

Satan

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:48 (one year ago) link

we're voting for which one we prefer/think is "better" (based on whatever metric you prefer)

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:51 (one year ago) link

not saying Previn would win, but he left one wife while she was pregnant, another while she was hospitalized due to a mental breakdown, and said of Soon-Yi, his adopted daughter: "she does not exist"

mizzell, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:51 (one year ago) link

or wouldn't win in that case
xp

mizzell, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:52 (one year ago) link

Sinatra was a POS but no one is beating Allen in a creepy-off

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 17:20 (one year ago) link

Sinatra fucked teenagers too so idk

the peaks of their respective bodies of work are both pretty unfuckwithable imo

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 17:28 (one year ago) link

sinatra is the greater artist imo

they both seem like pretty bad ppl by any reasonable standards, though the worst accusation against allen is worse than anything i've heard about sinatra

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:22 (one year ago) link

plus, sinatra gallantly offered to have goons break woody allen's knees. did woody allen ever gallantly threaten violence against frank? no? case closed

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:23 (one year ago) link

both great, hard to pick really

Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:24 (one year ago) link

sinatra is the greater artist imo

agreed

american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:25 (one year ago) link

yeah agreed

Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:28 (one year ago) link

no dispute there

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:30 (one year ago) link

I mean 'New York, New York' is a pretty good song but feel like he should maybe drop a few more tracks before we start proclaiming his genius.

Drive Like a Demon From Steakhouse to Steakhouse (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:30 (one year ago) link

Agree with J.D.

And Chrysler never made a special "Woody Allen edition" car.

https://jalopnik.com/for-4-000-this-1982-chrysler-imperial-is-a-blue-eyed-1721975988

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:32 (one year ago) link

write-in vote for Andre Previn

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:33 (one year ago) link

write-in vote for Dory Previn

by the light of the burning Citroën, Friday, 10 January 2020 19:36 (one year ago) link

Andre Previn remains one of the most baffling conductors I've sung for; when doing a simple 4/4 beat, his three was an arrhythmic flourish that had nothing to do with one, two, or four.

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:47 (one year ago) link

some kind of embedded Viennese Waltz perhaps?

The Soundtrack of Burl Ives (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:50 (one year ago) link

It looked more like he was turning the crank on an invisible miniature Model T

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:51 (one year ago) link

truly the jim furyk of conductors

Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 20:01 (one year ago) link

is Woody's music better than Frank's movies?

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:30 (one year ago) link

tbf I've never heard a note of Woody's music outside of what's heard in Wild Man Blues (which is fine). I really only rate the Manchurian Candidate out of Frank's movies.

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:31 (one year ago) link

credit sequence of the Tender Trap and one or two of the musical numbers in Anchors Away notwithstanding

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:32 (one year ago) link

Songs for swingin' lovers > any woody Allen movie

Zelda Zonk, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:08 (one year ago) link

Deconstructing Harry > all Frank after 1966

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:20 (one year ago) link

also Woody's are p much the only good movies Mia made besides Rosemary's Baby and A Wedding

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:21 (one year ago) link

Deconstructing Harry > all Frank after 1966

low bar

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:24 (one year ago) link

OK, maybe not "Bein' Green"

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:25 (one year ago) link

my way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deconstructing harry

bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:26 (one year ago) link

def not

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:26 (one year ago) link

that song sucks tbh

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:26 (one year ago) link

you are a heartless dybbuk

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:27 (one year ago) link

oic i meant "Bein' Green"

"My Way" is tripe

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:28 (one year ago) link

someone told me Sinatra secretly hated "My Way" but i can't confirm

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:29 (one year ago) link

Sinatra's best work either rings with insouciance or wallows in vulnerability. By the time of "My Way" all you're hearing is ego and anger curdled into a kind of self-righteousness.

"Bein' Green" is fine cuz its playful

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:30 (one year ago) link

Annie Hall means a lot more to me than anything I know by Sinatra.

Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 January 2020 00:53 (one year ago) link

I have no connection whatever to work by either of these guys. Or Mia Farrow.

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:07 (one year ago) link

I can't stand any "My Way" except Sid's.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:42 (one year ago) link

I can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:50 (one year ago) link

Woah back up, we're dismissing *all* Frank after 66? The Jobim album was 67 (his last Grammy nod if it means owt).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYaLNF8l8M

piscesx, Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:55 (one year ago) link

Hm yeah amend that cutoff date, the Jobim album is fantastic

Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:10 (one year ago) link

Watertown and to a lesser extent She Shot Me Down rule

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:21 (one year ago) link

I find almost all of Sinatra's output that was arranged by Nelson Riddle to be irritatingly facile.

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:30 (one year ago) link

how are you defining "facile" in this context?

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:34 (one year ago) link

To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra, period, unless you wanna make an argument for Gordon Jenkins or something.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:37 (one year ago) link

write-in vote for Andre Previn

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP)

pomenitul, Saturday, 11 January 2020 18:24 (one year ago) link

Idk if we wanna get into an authenticity argument but its p easy to argue from Frank’s bio that a fair amount of those emotions as conveyed on record were not “simulation”

Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:13 (one year ago) link

I mean when he called them wrist-slitters he was being p literal

Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:17 (one year ago) link

Stylized and refined, sure, but “simulated” is a bridge too far imo

Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:19 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:01 (one year ago) link

as a kid in the 70s Sinatra was the past, nobody my age cared about him. Allen was modern

I feel differently now, but still voted Allen

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:13 (one year ago) link

voted for the one with the eyes 👀

Disco Cladistic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:15 (one year ago) link

If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (one year ago) link

Didn't Sinatra tie up and rape unconscious women
I think that's documented

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (one year ago) link

Sinatra had people killed, don't know how anyone could think Woody was worse

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (one year ago) link

it's funny (but not surprising) how this comes down to "who do you believe the worst about?" for some ppl

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:17 (one year ago) link

I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?
Woody would still win

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:19 (one year ago) link

that's what it is and not necessarily

american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (one year ago) link

not sure about the Sinatra bondage/rape allegations (maybe I just haven't gotten to those chapters yet) but there's been more than a couple instances in this Kaplan bio where he lays out compelling (but still inconclusive - hey, it's the mafia!) evidence that Sinatra had his mob buddies do serious violence to people (including murder)

I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?
Yes!

Woody would still win

idk about that

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (one year ago) link

They are both very very VERY gross.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (one year ago) link

even in retrospect and with all of the negative history I think Allen had a greater artistic output

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:22 (one year ago) link

Murder (in general) is more logically understandable *to me* than father-daughter incest. Idk about the rest but I feel bad for Mia on account of her very bad taste in men.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:24 (one year ago) link

xxp I don't know about that, there's A LOT more stuff out there on Sinatra, inconclusive it may be
Woody has at least 20 movies that are good. a couple are great. Sinatra is a shitty actor and honestly A Rainy Day in New York was fun to watch. also Sinatra is dead and Woody is alive, kind of a flex there 😏

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:27 (one year ago) link

what it comes down to for me is i never need to see annie hall or manhattan ever again and i am forever yoked to sings for only the lonely, one of the richest, deepest records ever made by fuckin anybody

american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:28 (one year ago) link

can't argue with that

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:30 (one year ago) link

I’m not interested in the artistic output of Woody Allen at ALL; Sinatra, a little.

When you combine w the above logic, my vote makes sense. Again though it’s worth saying over and over in every post that they are both suuuuuuuuper fucking gross.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:31 (one year ago) link

Manhattan sucks
I haven't seen Annie Hall in a long time
I'd still vote for Woody based solely on his 2010s output

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:32 (one year ago) link

Sinatra raped minors AND murdered people/had people murdered (allegedly), he's worse than Woody just on that
I need to go watch a movie or play guitar or something

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:34 (one year ago) link

Everyone loses in a contest like this. They are both repulsive.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:35 (one year ago) link

I heard No One Cares the day before NYE, my first exposure in at least ten years, and the way it articulates despair with emphatic arrangements and inhuman singing is as close to anticipating Joy Division as I can expect.

I still love Allen's early comedies, like Interiors.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:49 (one year ago) link

If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera),

Sinatra the shrewder, more resourceful and original artist too

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:49 (one year ago) link

I really loved Annie Hall. I remember having a contentious discussion about it at the dinner table with my older brother, and also remember a friend at the time being disgusted that it won the academy award over Star Wars

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:55 (one year ago) link

manchurian candidate is better than any of allen's movies

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:03 (one year ago) link

what it comes down to for me is i never need to see annie hall or manhattan ever again and i am forever yoked to sings for only the lonely, one of the richest, deepest records ever made by fuckin anybody

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, January 16, 2020 12:28 AM (thirty-five minutes ago)

^^^^

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:05 (one year ago) link

I can still watch any number of Woody Allen films, like I watch many old Transformers and G.I. Joe: The Real American Hero episodes

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:07 (one year ago) link

Manchurian Candidate was good but was not as good as Annie Hall, Manhattan, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Zelig or Hannah and Her Sisters for me

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:11 (one year ago) link

Frank's acting > Woody's jazz stylings

An Oral History of Deez Nutz (PBKR), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:26 (one year ago) link

Woody was p much my comedic hero from age 14-24. I've never denied he's a creep though.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:27 (one year ago) link

I used to enjoy a few woody films but couldn’t make it through Manhattan, it seemed like just real bullshit. Annie Hall is classic obv. But Frank is a dude I’ll always have time for. Ever since I was a kid I liked the guy, but it helps that I was exposed to his lonely guy just thinkin bout things albums early on and not his bombastic coasting legend LPs from the ‘70s on (though as far as the ‘70s go his Jobim collabs are vv nice). Good actor too.

omar little, Thursday, 16 January 2020 03:24 (one year ago) link

The last Woody film I liked was Deconstructing Harry since it was a pretty bleak piece of self loathing, vs being mildly self deprecating.

omar little, Thursday, 16 January 2020 03:58 (one year ago) link

I still love Allen's early comedies, like Interiors.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, January 15, 2020

I like this comment!

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 05:37 (one year ago) link

tbh I might even say Frank's acting >> Woody's "acting"

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 19:58 (one year ago) link

omar otm, tho the 2 eps i saw of his sitcom w/ Elaine May were better than expected

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:02 (one year ago) link

manchurian candidate is better than any of quisper tarantino's movies, what's yr effin point

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:04 (one year ago) link

Tisa Farrow has a more interesting filmography than Mia Farrow

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:14 (one year ago) link

Sleeper is funnier than Dirty Dingus Magee

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:21 (one year ago) link

Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas, whereas I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are.

Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:29 (one year ago) link

Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas

ehh this is a stretch

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:40 (one year ago) link

the racial patter w/ Sammy from some of the Rat Pack live recordings is less than sensitive

I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are

puts a lotta old jazz records on his soundtracks

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:58 (one year ago) link

puts a lotta old jazz records on his soundtracks

A regular Woody E. B. DuBois.

The Traveling Wilkes-Barre's (PBKR), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:11 (one year ago) link

Frank's racial politics are interesting - he was definitely committed to integration and, in particular, making sure his fellow musicians/entertainers were treated fairly, but he simultaneously held very common attitudes that we would describe today as racist: freely using epithets, stereotypes, etc. It was like he was against institutionalized discrimination and racially motivated hatred, but didn't see tossing around the n-word in a jocular manner as being as being an issue because hey different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:25 (one year ago) link

listening to his frequent lapses into an "Amos and Andy" voice is genuinely painful

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:26 (one year ago) link

classic "it's a joke, relaaaax, get a sense of humor!" guy

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:27 (one year ago) link

different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.

i grew up with this kind of humor tho w/in TV limits, usually

i take the 5th on any further discussion of its merits, but yay Uncle Floyd Show

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:34 (one year ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 17 January 2020 00:01 (one year ago) link


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