what are jeremy corbyn's flaws?

we must be vigilant

Won’t wear an American flag pin ffs

doesn't harbour desires to nuke some pillock from Iran.

didn't he say imagine was his favourite song, criminal stuff

failed to gee anyone here up enough to start this thread 5 years ago

- too willing to overlook indiscretions from those who are loyal
- too timid on eg sackings, party democratisation
- loves cops
- doesn’t get scotland

he doesnt have to be very good to look very good considering whats around him but he does seem pretty good tbfttt

think thread might serve a useful purpose- not sure if the obama or aoc ones have the same intent tbh- where uh my beloved uk pol cru cannot rly bear suggestion that our bhoy- and he really is very very good- may not in fact be, and look it's an imperfect world and hes something to cling to its very understandable and he can't be all things to all men i mean its pretty astonishing hes achieved what he has done so far given the odds and powers stacked against him, perfect

and maybe a separate thread would be good, the main threads are maybe not the place to utter it or idk

Does politics well, leadership badly

xp yes , good

what is leadership

xp id have said that was unfair tbh ed

I thought there was another Corbyn thread but it's just that 'vs Angela Eagle' one from 15 years ago.

Sexual interest in manhole covers.

has not yet instituted full communism in the united kingdom

direct hit on the big man for sure

but he is trying, brexit has (momentarily, no doubt) thrown plans awry

- not likely to cultivate lucrative special relationship with top lads USA

has, tbf, already cultivated a special relationship with top lads ira

oh id never say he was without friends here and there alright

gooner.

as well have it out there.

That belongs on the flaws thread obv.

Oh, it is on the flaws thread.

- encourages football discussion on bizarro gazzara’s beloved ilx politics threads

he once did an awful ad hoc speech about good old fashioned rock music in the NW or something, was it in Tranmere or something? I can't remember - sometime during the 2017 campaign. I found it entirely embarrassing and insincere - but he is a dozy cunt at times and is alas only a pol - with all the limits that comes with etc...

Dozy cunt is a good description of him tbh.

lack of presence is the big one

but he is a dozy cunt at times and is alas only a pol - with all the limits that comes with etc...

― calzino, Monday, 19 August 2019 22:38 (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah i think this is a good lens, taking this into account and the general standard as i said hes kind of a miracle

but look thats not what this thread is for

he is def a dozy cxnt sometimes and can be liable to open mouth before engaging brain the democratic policy formation processes of the UK labour party - see e.g. calling for immediate triggering of A50 on the morning of the referendum

spose we're as well to note that he seems not to inspire the confidence of prospective coalition partners (including those in his own party) which bytimes is gonna be an issue

If the coalition partners weren't worthless arseholes that would be a fair criticism.

ah look we have to put something in her fer gawds sake the mans a saint

oh he hates the jews obv thats a mark against him

not john mcdonnell

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

thanks for bring the nuance and light mr Snrub, on what was otherwise a completely untapped archive!

But does he hate Jews as much as Ilhan Omar?

i dunno, how much does he hate her?

Corbyn's flaw is he's never going to be PM. He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory. Finally Labour has the right policies, but the wrong person to sell them.

He should get a young hot deputy to do all the public appearances and campaigning and just not make a big deal about who the party leader technically is

Corbyn's flaw is he's never going to be PM. He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory. Finally Labour has the right policies, but the wrong person to sell them.

tbf she had not yet established herself as such at the time

- is disliked by cultural titans eddie marsan and rachel r’lyeh riley

He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory.

I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians or to what extent a younger politician with the same policies but without Corbyn’s history would face a similar demonisation from the press and the right of the Labour Party.

In terms of flaws, it does sound like Corbyn’s team isn’t particularly interested in, or has given up attempting, the typical business of rapidly responding to press enquiries, trying to shape media narratives on the fly, etc. In some ways, that might be understandable but it gives journalists an additional excuse for not engaging fairly.

The failure to get rid of terrible politicians who are happy to work with him is a definite flaw. I know he has a small pool to select his cabinet from but there is no excuse for Nia Griffith still being there. Related to that, the attempt to outflank the Tories on law and order / police numbers is completely misguided.

I agree Corbyn did far better than he was expected to in 2017. But the job of opposition leader is not to win the game of expectations. It's to actually win! I mean I hope he can next time, but I doubt it and I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.

Beard.
This Great Nation hasn't had a PM with a full beard since The Most Honourable Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury in 1895:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gascoyne-Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury#/media/File:Robert_cecil.jpg

although there have been some fine moustaches in the interim years.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury.jpg

I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 5:45 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

name one who could beat corbyn, never mind carry the country

I mean you obviously don’t? A percentage of the vote that would have won a majority in almost any other election and gaining seats and millions of voters are far more than “expectations”. Not really convinced about the argument that another leader would have done better on that platform and less so in the past two years. I look at the reception given to Laura Pidcock over basically anything she does, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Clive Lewis (esp over Grenfell) and it’s difficult to conclude a lot of the same attacks wouldn’t have been tried then. I also remember all the people being like “yeah he should have won” the morning after the election were people who would have been dying from pure rage if he actually had so yeah. Revisionism.

I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians

looking increasingly like RLB is being set up to succeed corbs (kudos to Matt DC for calling this early). think she'll get the crucial union backing. starmer & rayner prob the other best contenders. Abbott & McDonnell too old, pidcock & carden too young, Lewis & thornberry too unreliable, almost everyone else too right wing for the members (sorry sobez)

Labour focused so much on defence they missed out on several more seats they could have nicked with the resourcing there.

I'm not presenting it as a contradiction, but the same's true on the other side - there was a lot of gnashing of teeth from Conservative activists about being sent to campaign in seats that they ended up losing by two figures while marginals that they barely lost went without.

The conhome report from that year about how the election campaign went was a catalogue of falling about on their arses - Labour did do very well (and Corbyn should take a lot of credit), but the next one definitely won't be easy in the same way. And also we lost.

Back to Corbyn, I think some of his totemic appeal couldn't translate to a new younger leader - it's that he has been in the Commons for decades and has been voting the right way for that long. He's also very good at communicating that this is coming from a coherent ethos, that he's not just reading things off a piece of paper. Not to be the first to broach the B-word, but a side-effect is that when does attempt any more delicate dance, it stands out a mile - but like I say I think this is central to his appeal!

This thread is four years too late.

guys i hate to bring this up but.. can anybody remind me how the whole renegotiate the WA / ref2 thing was supposed to have worked? let’s say corbyn got his minority govt, prob with SNP and a swinsonless LD coalition. and say he went back to the EU and secured a new WA, something a bit like norway+ or whatever. how...... ON EARTH would that have passed the commons?

I mean, the ability to call yourself a government is the ability to pass legislation, so "with SNP and a swinsonless LD coalition" is the answer there.

I am not actually that familiar with the plans, but they could have planned to put it to a referendum before a commons vote, in the hope that, if it passed, enough Tory MPs would be "Well we hate Jeremy Corbyn but the people have spoken"?

you don't campaign on the basis of what you would do if you squeak into a minority government

but yeah idk what would actually have happened

i mean.. no tories were going to vote for it. so how does it pass? I'm assuming it would have had to pass the commons in order to get onto a binding ref ballot.

The numbers? I mean they didn’t need that many seats to change hands to make the numbers work.

They said Jeremy Corbyn wasn't doing enough about antisemitism. They said he didn't care.

They lied. pic.twitter.com/axnacI7Wdc

— Marl Karx (@BareLeft) April 13, 2020

The revelations in the document are interesting in terms of evaluating Corbyn's performance.

In that sense it's history but also it's having a party that is fully functioning too for Starmer and any future leader.

well, this guardian article from just two months ago doesn’t sit quite right anymore, does it? pic.twitter.com/UUMhiAmmoh

— nomes burnley (@nomey_b) April 13, 2020

James Butler on the LRB brilliantly argued through his many faults and flaws. In much of my time on here I think I argued from a position of him as non-leader (or anti-) as positive, and this is pretty much what he flips around.

In other news, @jeremycorbyn is living his best life, doing bhangra at a wedding. 👑 pic.twitter.com/NZlUzgHUsK

— Taj Ali (@Taj_Ali1) July 27, 2022

Not a flaw.

In much of my time on here I think I argued from a position of him as non-leader (or anti-) as positive

Jezza Garcia

Lol

shd've tried harder to secure the party from the right, probably a failing tied into almost a virtue

did things he knew were bullshit to appease people he had too much faith in and lost his insurgent edge in the process

Jeremy Corbyn played a version of 'Doom' that lets you 'kill Thatcher' https://t.co/tJpeQCFP6i

— The Independent (@Independent) September 26, 2022

The absolute best, always been a top ten Corbyn story

Quality pic.twitter.com/H5AaeQ62xU

— Fisted Away (@fistedaway) September 28, 2022

An honour to meet Chris Smalls, who led the first Amazon strikes in the U.S.

Thank you for galvanising a collective movement, whose success has inspired so many others to stand up and fight back against corporate greed.

International solidarity is how we win! pic.twitter.com/YOQJkmeyHA

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) February 21, 2023

"I do not intend to stop fighting for real change on your behalf."

Our economy is characterised by poverty, debt and inequality.

People in Islington North are demanding a more hopeful alternative.

I do not intend to stop fighting for real change on your behalf. pic.twitter.com/s6nB3AgRAh

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) March 22, 2023

If I went out campaigning as a non-Islington resident millenial leftist foreigner would you guys reckon' that would help or hurt?

Help.

The only thing stopping people who voted for Corbyn the last time doing so again if he runs as an independent is the idea that you have to vote Labour to keep the Tories out, which is an inane position to hold in Islington North.

in Islington North

Wondering how much Keir Labour is going to throw away on trying to crowbar some briefcase fool into that seat

I saw an outlier poll where they are only 10 pts ahead yesterday, lol

Yeah, weird how more competent fascism isn’t an argument against fascist policies.

Not only that but Starmer’s whole way of being is so offputting I expect the polling to tighten to within a few percentage points as contact with the reality of the man fully hits people

he's already polling lower than Sunak on a personal basis, unbelievably classic Labour

I saw an outlier poll where they are only 10 pts ahead yesterday, lol

― calzino, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 bookmarkflaglink

It's narrowed bcz it isn't the Truss-led shit show and Lab will only have bots to say how Kieth is a top bloke.

One poll indicated a Labour majority of 8.

No reason to believe that particular outcome will occur but it is one of those accidental scenarios that would, in theory, favour a faction like the Socialist Campaign Group, if they had the will to enact that as the ERG did (which they won't). They could make demands in exchange for voting through KS's policies, etc.

I don't think it will happen (don't think the SCG are able to stand up in this way) but hypothetically that would be the result of such a scenario. Hypothetically therefore it could be the best feasible electoral outcome.

You can even imagine, say, a Labour majority of 2, which would be 50% larger if only they hadn't expelled the successful candidate for Islington North. Would make that act look the more self-destructive (as well as morally wrong).

the SCG have not acquitted themselves well in the post-Corbyn era

Let's see them use a slim majority to push socialist policy just you wait.

Tony Blair famously said if he could win from the left he wouldn’t do it. I haven’t seen anything to indicate the current party is different.

Re the og question, I feel like the left needs a hard bastard as a leader or figurehead, and sadly Corbs wasn't that. Mick Lynch seems to have worked wonders for the RMT. Ian Lavery squared up to Johnson on live TV. I know this is simplistic but voters seem to prefer someone perceived as pugilistic. Obviously I'm ignoring the media's role in Corbs leadership, and what they would do to such a hypothetical leader (I remember how they demonised and ridiculed Prescott for defending himself).

Yeah I think it's a consensus take now that Corbyn was too soft.

He was not a leader in any sense of the word. Which is why he was the best leader.

Amazing how close we got to at least some power.

just realised that if Humza wins the SNP vote, all four biggest parties will be led by charisma-free freaks who command absolutely zero respect from anyone. you couldn't say the same about Corbyn, Johnson or Sturgeon.

enter Sir Edward Davey

look, charisma-free freaks is grown-up politics

Sounds like an uncool liberal belief, to me

prefer someone perceived as pugilistic.

It's directness, straightforwardness, and succinctness that are popular. That doesn't necessarily mean being more pugilistic at all

Starmer has problems in that case.

I think that is pretty clear!

It's directness, straightforwardness, and succinctness that are popular. That doesn't necessarily mean being more pugilistic at all

― anvil, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:33 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Personally I thought Corbs was all these things, to a large extent, with the exceptions maybe of Brexit and the EU.

Agree.

I wish Corbyn would sue every one of these fuckers who's called him an antisemite. he could fund a new party with that money.

I'm always glad to see JC happy.

Thank you to the people of Belfast for a truly inspirational visit.

I was honoured to speak at #Feile35 and pay tribute to the Irish community back in my constituency.

Above all, I was buoyed by the hope of young people campaigning for freedom, peace and unity. pic.twitter.com/07TgLm00n1

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) August 4, 2023

he does an innocuous Hiroshima day post and predictably 99% of the replies are from really nasty and thick friends and apologists of the mass humanity exterminating division of the US military complex. He's already politically finished and had whip removed ffs

JC marks 50 years since the coup in Chile.

50 years ago, a US-backed military coup overthrew the Allende government in Chile.

Chileans never gave up — after 17 years of repression, democracy was restored.

As Pablo Neruda said, “You can cut all the flowers but you can’t stop Spring from coming.” pic.twitter.com/BhYQOXyA4r

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) September 11, 2023

I've just been reading an oral history of Rough Trade where Piers Corbyn is twice referred to as 'The King of the Squats'.