I dare you to anticipate Joaquin Phoenix in Todd Phillips's JOKER (now with something that may or may not be a SPOILER)

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It’s a form with a proud history, cohering in the eighteenth century when philosophers, writers, composers, and artists were grappling with radical new ideas that ultimately fostered the American and French revolutions, and centered on the cosmic significance of the ordinary citizen caught in familial and social traps. The extreme popularity of the form, especially in novels and plays, was taken up in early cinema, though starting in the 1930s it began to be rapidly devalued as it became associated with women writers, stars, and audiences. In the 1970s and ’80s Marxist and feminist film theorists began a reevaluation of the importance of melodrama in terms of its social criticism, especially in terms of class, gender, and race. But an endless stream of soap operas and hack plotting in movies and television have associated “melodrama” with “failed drama” in the public mind, and its more radical possibilities have been left unexplored in our era. At least Phillips indicates in this film that he recognizes those possibilities, and that’s promising.

A return to melodrama seems fitting at this time. It was, after all, an ultra-popular entertainment of the Gilded Age. Cinema itself arises at the end of this era and develops fully as the Gilded Age overlaps and partially gives way to the Progressive Era, when reformers attacked government corruption and finally began to enact policies aimed at ameliorating the gruesome social ills of class society. Looking at Joker for a kind of microcosmic version of melodrama giving way in the end to something better, however inchoate, is absolute wishful thinking. But like I said before — it’s the perfect Rorschach inkblot.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link

Anyone can defecate on a piece of paper and call it a 'Rorschach inkblot'

Frederik B, Friday, 11 October 2019 13:40 (four years ago) link

I've been wanting to say that for a while, so thanks for setting it up treeship :)

Frederik B, Friday, 11 October 2019 13:42 (four years ago) link

I think the idea is that, by maybe uncosnciously invoking these 19th century tropes, Phillips ‘struck a chord.’ The incoherence of the film, the fact that it is a fable either with no meaning or an abhorrent meaning, is part of what might be interesting about it.

Again, I’ll never see it. Just throwing this out there.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 13:53 (four years ago) link

Occam's Razor favors the notion that Phillips was going for an explicitly Dickensian vibe.

Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Friday, 11 October 2019 13:56 (four years ago) link

Sure. The plot seems extremelt melodramatic—esp the delusional mother writing letters to the rich man who she believes is the true father of her troubled son.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 14:01 (four years ago) link

It's not interesting, treeship, it's just dishonest.

Frederik B, Friday, 11 October 2019 14:02 (four years ago) link

But these are interesting and old fashioned narrative devices in a movie that is supposed to be edgy and controversial. Like, fight club isn’t a melodrama. Neither is american psycho.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 14:02 (four years ago) link

Few people seem to have picked up on Road Trip's many allusions to travel literature of the 18th and 19th Centuries. Dude's a thinker.

Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Friday, 11 October 2019 14:04 (four years ago) link

These aren’t sophisticated allusions. That’s not the point. What’s interesting is the movie seems extremely shmaltzy for a Golden Lion winning movie that provoked outrage once it came to America.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link

I thought it was an angle that maybe was being neglected in the discourse. Felt true based on the trailer. Maybe I should see the movie after all.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 14:07 (four years ago) link

I’m for anything that puts this in the context of something earlier than Taxi Driver (I say after figuring out that it’s the same story as Georg Büchner’s Woyzeck).

... (Eazy), Friday, 11 October 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link

It doesn't matter if Phillips intended to make a class warfare melodrama where the ultimate lesson is "we need universal healthcare immediately." He probably didn't, given his comments about the "far left" making comedy impossible. But the movie itself absolutely taps into the zeitgeist.

flappy bird, Friday, 11 October 2019 16:49 (four years ago) link

Yeah, intent is beside the point. The idea is that social alienation is conveyed in this through melodrama—versus, irony, or other postmodern ‘distancing’ effects. So that makes it pretty different than taxi driver and the king od comedy, which are essentially dark comedies. It’s probably also why people were afraid of certain audience members identifying with fleck too directly. The movie invited that, then seemingly flips the script at the end.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:02 (four years ago) link

And it does kind of fit with the times. This doesn’t feel like a very ironic era. People experience their alienation as political rage of one form or another.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:03 (four years ago) link

The most damning aspect of this movie might be the fact that Philips can only see rage against the rich as a source of “chaos,” literally the guy becoming the joker, and not anything productive. That seems reactionary, not because it gives comfort to the alt right and their brand of terror, but because it doesn’t even pretend to offer a way out of a society that grinds people down.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:07 (four years ago) link

The options are “transgression” or nothing.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:08 (four years ago) link

But again, that’s not philips’ fault. His film just kind of illustrates this stupid way of thinking that is probably popular.

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:09 (four years ago) link

Oh yeah the facebook url tags

treeship., Friday, 11 October 2019 19:49 (four years ago) link

Y’all are gonna laugh at me (hahaHahahaHAHA) but I’ve completely come around on this movie. I don’t think you can handle my thoughts. They’re just too twisted.

A week after I saw it I couldn’t stop thinking about this movie even though I was pretty sure I didn’t like it. For me that’s usually a sign the movie’s doing something interesting. Most pieces of shit will exit my mind almost the second I leave the theater, but this stayed with me. So yes, Downton Abbey is a masterpiece of cinema

Conceptualize Wyverns (latebloomer), Saturday, 12 October 2019 02:43 (four years ago) link

Joker’s Trick🃏

Conceptualize Wyverns (latebloomer), Saturday, 12 October 2019 02:43 (four years ago) link

the palace intrigue inside my head

flappy bird, Saturday, 12 October 2019 04:51 (four years ago) link

DC fans can't even meme

When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Saturday, 12 October 2019 10:42 (four years ago) link

she was a fast machine
she kept her motor clean
she was the best damn woman I had ever seen
she had the sightless eyes
telling me no lies
knockin' me out with those cgi fighs

to regain his mental focus, he played video-game golf (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 12 October 2019 11:40 (four years ago) link

I saw this today. It felt like a big fat nothing. I'm now going to paste in a two-thousand-word review I wrote for my blog, but haven't published yet because - as mentioned at the end of the review - I'm temporarily in Hong Kong and only have a tablet and a bluetooth keyboard. I can generate text, but actually assembling a blog post is too much effort, not least because it's 32C and my feet hurt.

I'm sure you're familiar with the Big Mac Index. In Hong Kong the Big Mac is undervalued, and yet it's so hot that I'm not hungry. That's irony. Also there's a thing called the GCB, which is a grilled unbreaded chicken burger. The chicken looks like a couple of big chunks of mushroom, it's horrible.

"Off to the cinema to see Joker, a film that sets up a fight between The Joker and a little person but then pulls its punches and has The Joker let the little person go.

It's like those superhero comics where Superman fights Muhammed Ali, or Superman fights Jackie Chan, or Batman fights Jackie Chan, or Superman fights Mike Tyson, and for it to work Superman has to be stripped of his powers by aliens, and because he doesn't really dislike Jackie Chan they agree to stage the fight and then they punch out the aliens who are holding them captive and escape.

But Joker doesn't even do that. The Joker doesn't team up with the little person. He has a name, by the way, but I didn't catch it. The Joker doesn't team up with the little person, he just lets him go. Joker tells the story of how top comic book villain The Joker became The Joker. In real life The Joker is a highly-strung, mentally-ill man called Arthur Fleck, who works as a clown, but he's a terrible clown so he gets fired. The little person works at the same agency as Fleck. Fleck's name sounds like "speck", which is basically what he is. In fact his name literally is Fleck, isn't it? A fleck is a thing. That's a word. You can have a fleck of paint. I don't need to use rhymes. Arthur Fleck is a fleck of a man.

He's a nobody, a bum, although he dreams of a career as a stand-up comedian and has visions of being on television and being a somebody and being respected by Robert De Niro (who plays a talk show host) and being hugged by Robert De Niro. Isn't that what we all want? For Robert De Niro to hug us, and respect us?

Imagine if Robert De Niro pretended to respect us but secretly despised us. Imagine if Robert De Niro mocked us on live television. You'd get mad, wouldn't you? You'd get angry. You'd want to shut Robert De Niro up. And I mean although Fleck doesn't become The Joker until the end of the film, he's a wiry guy, so you'd expect him to beat the little person easily, but the little person looks pretty fit, and he's had a hard life, because the film is set in the very early 1980s, when it was still just about acceptable to call little people midgets or dwarves.

He's had a hard life, but so has Arthur Fleck, because instead of being a normal person like most people he is instead adopted. Furthermore he was raised by a single mother. It's no wonder he turned out bad. The odds were stacked against him from the start. The thing about Joker is that it's thin. It's inconsequential. It's essentially a watered-down mixture of Taxi Driver and Network, but because those films were made in the 1970s they could be offensive. They still have elements that are shocking today. Remember when Travis Bickle starts ranting about junkies, punks, buggers, queens, and how sometimes he has to wash come off the back seat? Remember when Martin Scorsese (for it is he) says that he's going to ram a .44 Magnum up a woman's front bottom and blow it to shreds? Remember how no-one reprimanded Scorsese's character? Remember how the film just watched Bickle and Scorsese and all the other characters without feeling the need to tell us that they've been living in hell too long? You remember the joke earlier in this paragraph about how the Joker isn't a normal person because he's adopted? That's offensive. You can't say things like that nowadays. Even if you're the bad guy.

Even if you're the bad guy. See, Joker is essentially two different films at once. There's a melodrama about how Fleck discovers his past, but that felt like a first draft of another film. Parts of Joker take place inside Fleck's head. They're waking dreams that he has. He imagines that he's dating a lady who lives down the hall, but it's obviously a fantasy. Towards the end the film goes out of its way to make this clear, but it's unnecessary. Fleck obviously didn't get any pussy. He's deeply unappealing, but because this is 2019 he's not allowed to be truly offensive, or to say anything that makes him come across as bad, or that makes the audience uncomfortable. The people he kills are either unsympathetic or non-entities. Fleck doesn't fight the little person, because that would be unfair and would make him look bad. I mean, yes, technically Fleck stabs a man in the neck for no reason at all, but it comes out of nowhere and may or may not have been a dream sequence. It doesn't resonate emotionally, which is a general criticism I have of the film.

Two different films at once. Three different films. There's the melodrama, but that's rubbish. There's a variation of the poor-vs-rich theme running through Dark Knight Rises, but if anything Joker gives the idea less thought than the earlier film. In Dark Knight Rises it's obvious that the villainous Bane doesn't give a shit about the poor, he's just a fascist using them for his own personal aggrandisement, but Joker doesn't even have that depth. The film has come in for a certain amount of criticism for suggesting that the upper classes should not have a monopoly on the use of force, but all of that happens in the background. One of Fleck's crimes triggers off a wave of anti-yuppie sentiment, but it didn't resonate emotionally because it happens offscreen and Fleck himself lives in a bubble. At a pivotal point in the film he becomes caught up in a riot, but he doesn't even seem to be aware that he has inspired a movement. Instead he dances around as if in a trance, as if on stage in front of an appreciative audience. Curiously the film doesn't even run with the idea that he has become an accidental folk anti-hero, because in the very next scene he is behind bars.

Three films. It is in theory also a standard comic book film. It's an origin story of The Joker, who is the most famous adversary of Batman. In the Batman stories - whether in films or cartoons or comics or whatever - The Joker masterminds a series a brilliant crimes, but Batman catches him and puts him in Arkham Asylum, but he escapes and the cycle continues. Depending on the writer and the decade and the publication The Joker is either a wisecracking bank robber who uses motorised teeth as a distraction, or alternatively he's a depraved child murderer who cuts smiles into the faces of his victims - cuts their flesh with an actual knife - or he exists between those two poles. The key thing is that he's competent. As with The Batman he's not superhuman. He's just a man, not even a particularly strong man, but he's ruthless and good with a knife and is smart enough to tax Batman. It wouldn't be fun otherwise.

Arthur Fleck on the other hand isn't competent. He's not even on the lucky-idiot level of someone like Ted Bundy. He makes no attempt to cover up his early killings, and the only murder he pre-plans is ludicrous. The film generally takes place in the same gritty world as The Wire or Goodfellas or one of those gangster films, but towards the end the air of verisimilitude breaks down. I don't want to give it away, but the ease with which Fleck delivers the punchline of his final joke stretches credibility. As a villain Fleck comes across as completely inept. The only time he does something even remotely clever it's a complete coincidence that relies on the presence of a tube train full of people wearing clown masks.

Ultimately the problem with Joker is that the film didn't engage me. Arthur Fleck is a pathetic figure who doesn't have a coherent philosophy. As a criminal mastermind he would be useless, and yet the film implies that this is just the beginning of his story. The mass movement he inspires takes place offscreen. The melodrama involving his parentage is a shoehorn. A late revelation that Fleck is partially responsible for a key element of the Batman mythos made me think "so what".

On a purely visceral, Death Wish level the kills are pretty good. Fleck stabs a guy in the neck and then smashes his head against a wall leaving blood everywhere. It's fantastic, but it doesn't feel meaningful. There are three laughs, two of which are guilty laughs. Ultimately the film feels like a great big nothing, a lot of pretend angst masking a boring story. It's a revival of the kind of Welcome-to-Fear-City films that came out in the 1970s, but this New York doesn't even appear particularly sordid. Despite being a film for grown-ups it's surprisingly prudish in the modern style. There's almost no swearing; no nudity; no perversion; the people who are mean to the little person are shown to be assholes; even the yuppies that Fleck kills don't do anything particularly bad. There are no prostitutes and Fleck doesn't go to a strip club. He doesn't sadistically torture anyone or strip the flesh off their face or anything.

Couldn't they at least have made him a clown butcher? Butcher by day, clown by night? I would pay to see that film. BUTCHER CLOWN, the script writes itself. Shoot it on the shittest 35mm off-cuts available, mono soundtrack, dub it to videotape, then dub that tape to a second tape, then get voiceover people to loop the dialogue, have it released to VHS on a label you've never heard of, bingo.

Would Joker have been better if it had been made in the 1970s, when you could use the N-word and say the F-for-homosexual word and have a white man threaten to blow a black man's head clean off and he was the good guy? It would essentially be Dirty Harry, but told from the point of view of the Scorpio killer, and there would be no Dirty Harry. Imagine if the film had Jack Nicholson, but the Jack Nicholson of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and The Last Detail. It's a fascinating idea forever lost to history.

Anything else? The film also has an overt reference to Bob Monkhouse. I realise the joke is old as the hills, but some comedians become so associated with certain jokes that they own the joke, and Bob Monkhouse owns that joke. Wherever you are, Bob, I thought of you today.

Oh yes, the performances. Joe-a-quim Phoenix is Arthur Fleck. He has a bunch of mannerisms and isn't afraid to be embarrassing, but as mentioned earlier I felt nothing for the character so his performance was wasted. He's like Forrest Gump without the charisma, a self-pitying nobody. A mostly passive moron whose revenge against the people who wronged him feels arbitrary and unsatisfying. I wanted to cheer him on as he stabbed and tortured fat businessmen and policemen and pimps and yuppies and so on, but the film doesn't want anything to do with that sort of thing.

None of the other actors stood out. Robert De Niro has an extended cameo as a talk show host, but throughout the film he puts on a performance as a talk show host, so it's hard to evaluate his actual performance. Does that make sense? We never see the character that De Niro plays when he's off screen (a brief meeting he shares with Fleck is presumably still in character) so he's just a talk show host. A different film might have portrayed him as a stuck record that can't cope with a sudden burst of shocking reality, but the film is, to its credit, smarter than that. At a pivotal moment De Niro's character obviously senses that he has a scoop on live television, but instead of panicking he tries to dig out the story. Which is smart - I suspect that Johnny Carson would have done the same thing, in the same situation - but frustrating.

Music? It's pretty good. Literal. Wonky cellos and strings as if to suggest that Arthur Fleck is unhinged. The cinematography is standard mid-2010s digital, with everything shot at f/1.4 and the colours are pastel and there's lens flare. It uses "the film look", which ironically doesn't look like film, so on a visual level it has very little in common with Taxi Driver or Serpico or Wolfen or The Warriors etc. It uses a modern trick whereby some scenes start off with camera rock steady, and then it cuts to the exact same shot but suddenly its hand-held and wobbly. There's probably a name for it. Selective stabilisation. Stabilisation ramping. I don't know. Ask David Mullen on Cinematographers.net, he probably knows.

For the record I saw the film at the AMC Pacific Place in Hong Kong! Because this week I'm in Hong Kong. It's a Cat IIB film, one step down from the no-holds-barred Cat III of Sex and Zen and Naked Killer infamy. There was one trailer, for Terminator: Dark Fate. The film had Chinese subtitles, which is fine if you imagine that Fleck is hallucinating in Chinese. As with a lot of places in Hong Kong the air conditioning was on an overkill setting, but this suited the film fine. It was a midday screening and the theatre was about half-full. I mention up the page that the New York of Joker doesn't seem particularly sordid; Kowloon beats it hollow."

That is my review of Joker. Imagine if this was 1998! The simple fact of writing a review of a film using a laptop and then publishing it on the internet while in Hong Kong would be enough to get me a column in Wired or Omni or something. And yet it's 2019 and people Hong Kong all the time.

Ashley Pomeroy, Saturday, 12 October 2019 13:49 (four years ago) link

That's some quality Hong Konging. 4 fishballs.

maffew12, Saturday, 12 October 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link

seeing this today because my teenage son and his friend want to see it. i've informed them they will be bored shitless for 2 hours but they want to see it anyway.

akm, Saturday, 12 October 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link

this is neither the worst movie ever, nor the greatest movie. Most of the pre-release criticisms of it are way off base; I can't fathom this becoming some kind of incel rallying movie. Phoenix is very good in it as is everyone else. It's a little too long. The first 1/3 of the movie is essentially Taxi Driver. The ending of the movie is like a very dark version of Being There.

akm, Sunday, 13 October 2019 01:59 (four years ago) link

I was happy to see that the pre-release suggestion that a black woman spurns him so he goes on a rage killing is not actually the story.

akm, Sunday, 13 October 2019 02:00 (four years ago) link

"Holy poop, this movie ends with a "maybe it was all in his head?" twist?" No, I can't see why anyone would interpret the ending of the movie in this way.

akm, Sunday, 13 October 2019 02:27 (four years ago) link

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/movies/joker-movie-controversy.html

Though Fleck is pursued and investigated by Gotham’s finest, his whiteness acts as a force field, protecting him as he engages in the violent acts of the latter half of the film. Consider his appearance on the live talk show hosted by Murray Franklin (Robert De Niro). A black man acting as strangely as Fleck does would not have been allowed to go on the air. But the white Fleck is given access, and bloodshed soon follows.

Or look at how Fleck interacts with others. He is frequently in conversation with people who occupy a lower rung in society than he does: a state-appointed therapist he sees early on; a protective mother who chastises him for playing peekaboo with her son on the bus; his possible love interest, a neighbor who lives in the same building; and the psychiatrist he sees in Arkham Asylum. Every one of these characters is a black woman with whom he eventually has confrontations. Phillips consistently places Fleck in an oppositional or antagonistic position to these women.

I don’t know if this is intentional on Phillips’s part, but it is significant. When we learn that his relationship with the neighbor (played with artful restraint by Zazie Beetz) was merely a figment of his troubled imagination, the way he leaves the apartment implies that this realization has led Fleck to kill her and perhaps her child. After his final conversation with the Arkham doctor, his bloody footsteps suggest that he kills her as well.

Fleck kills white men because he cannot access their status and is ostracized by them, but his black female victims are so invisible that the film does not bother to show their deaths. We as viewers can and should take note of them.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 13 October 2019 03:45 (four years ago) link

When we learn that his relationship with the neighbor (played with artful restraint by Zazie Beetz) was merely a figment of his troubled imagination, the way he leaves the apartment implies that this realization has led Fleck to kill her and perhaps her child.

does it?

flappy bird, Sunday, 13 October 2019 05:16 (four years ago) link

When we learn that his relationship with the neighbor (played with artful restraint by Zazie Beetz) was merely a figment of his troubled imagination, the way he leaves the apartment implies that this realization has led Fleck to kill her and perhaps her child.

does it?

― flappy bird, 13. oktober 2019 07:16 (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

As I said before, he sits down in his apartment, and we hear sirens. Yeah, it's heavily implied that something happened, but it's done in a way that lets it be denied. Cowardly.

Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 11:26 (four years ago) link

it didn't register once with me that that was what happened.

akm, Sunday, 13 October 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link

There’s sirens going on the in the background the whole movie

flappy bird, Sunday, 13 October 2019 17:06 (four years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpak5lFxvs

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 October 2019 18:04 (four years ago) link

ooops!

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 October 2019 18:04 (four years ago) link

If he killed Sophie and lived down the hall, the cops, stupid as they are, would have been beating his door down to question him.

I feel like it's a scene Phillips just awkwardly transitioned.

Like she's not in the rest of the movie...so? That happens in movies

When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Sunday, 13 October 2019 18:21 (four years ago) link

it's extra weird in the context of a movie that goes out of its way to show you that the obviously imagined interactions between two characters, were imagined

maffew12, Sunday, 13 October 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link

If he killed Sophie and lived down the hall, the cops, stupid as they are, would have been beating his door down to question him.

― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), 13. oktober 2019 20:21 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Cops being unbelievably stupid and bad at their jobs? That happens in movies.

Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link

Sirens occurring in a city infested with crime also happens.

NYC is relatively cleaned up these days, but when i visit i often hear them. 80s NYC, which Gotham is mimicking, in a shitty area?

When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:07 (four years ago) link

more like fraud phillips

thank you i am the real joker

american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, 14 October 2019 00:26 (four years ago) link

oh that seems to be an outdated story. UPMG have confirmed Glitter will see no royalites from the song.

akm, Monday, 14 October 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link

lmao at this 47-year-old man acting like a particularly spoiled 13yo

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 20 October 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link

I'm not sure I've witnessed much emotional maturation in the Leto since I became aware of him 25 years ago.

Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Sunday, 20 October 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link


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