What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

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ok, enough is enough. she gets a thread.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:20 (five years ago) link

haha nice callback title

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:21 (five years ago) link

cool now we have four US politics threads

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:21 (five years ago) link

She's fairly disrespectful to our president, for a start.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (five years ago) link

she's so awesome she makes everyone else look bad

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (five years ago) link

excellent title

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (five years ago) link

if people don't want to use it, they won't

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (five years ago) link

xp

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link

sharp knees

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link

american

||||||||, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:24 (five years ago) link

If she's able to maintain her political stance (and especially if she winds up being an effective legislator) I would be very comfortable casting a prez vote for her once she's eligible to run.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:25 (five years ago) link

i think she's wonderful. one thing i especially like about her is that she seems adept at forming a posse of like-minded legislators. she's good at sharing her political fame and recognition and using it to boost others.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (five years ago) link

in before someone suggests she's nominated for president
xp fuck just missed it.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (five years ago) link

name has 5-4-2 syllable pattern: last name should have three syllables

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (five years ago) link

left-handed, so she's pretty much limited to 1B or the outfield

mookieproof, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:27 (five years ago) link

Alexandria / Ocasio-Cortez is / a living haiku.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:27 (five years ago) link

the main reason for this thread is that she is an excellent twitterer, so maybe her daily handful of zings can go here instead of the other threads.

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

buuuuut, the great thing about AOC is that i would have more confidence in her than just about anyone else to bounce back quickly from a hypothetic major twitter fuckup. as our wise president says "we'll see what happens"

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:29 (five years ago) link

Left-handed? Excellent.

suzy, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:38 (five years ago) link

yeah i was going to say how bad can she really fuck up on twitter that will make what these assholes say about here matter to anyone but them?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link

about her*

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link

She cares too much

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:40 (five years ago) link

her ability to get the right to constantly self-own without even doing anything is incredible. at first I thought the "they're terrified of her" thing was overblown but they clearly are. not just because she's so far left but also because I don't think she's willing to "play ball" the way people like Schumer and Obama were. plus the fact that she's young and massively popular will only encourage more like her to come out of the woodwork which could shape US politics for decades to come. she's only been in office for a month but she already feels like an icon.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:44 (five years ago) link

God, does this woman have a gazillions tons of hope resting on her shoulders or what?

Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:48 (five years ago) link

I look forward to many years of right-wing sputtering about the outrageous policy positions of this lefty commie socialist who okay is very attractive but that's not the point because she's going to destroy this country perhaps even with her smoldering good looks.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:48 (five years ago) link

I think the biggest thing she can achieve, especially in the near term, is to inspire more like minded young politicians to run.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (five years ago) link

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (five years ago) link

she came out too fully formed as an awesome politician and therefore must actually be either an alien or a veteran operative in disguise

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (five years ago) link

fwiw I maintain muted expectations about what she can actually achieve in the system but so far she has exceeded them

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link

she's already exceeded expectations. no one was talking about a Green New Deal or a 70% top rate before she came along.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:52 (five years ago) link

imo her strength so far has been to say exactly enough, or to respond with tongue-in-cheek fact checks about her stances without jumping into clusterfucks

having someone with actual policy stances without a political or even social past deep enough to sabotage dialogue in favor of ad hominem attacks is a net positive. media and public commentary almost demands a personality or face to link policy to, because policy is abstract and complicated and presenting an individual makes the job easier. if she's that person, have at it

it's a refreshing change from the right-wing version in the tea party goons, who had notional policy ideas and were 90% horrible personality and demagoguery

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:51 PM (forty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kind of bullshitty. She voted for the bill to reopen govt.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link

btw it does pain me to bring up the "Trump of the left" thing but it does occur to me that she's *actually* good at all the political stuff that people thought Trump was good at

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link

xp

This was not a catch-all bill to reopen the federal government, which has been shut down for weeks while Trump refuses to sign a budget until he gets funding for a border wall. That was a different vote. No, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi scheduled an entirely separate vote solely on funding the Department of Homeland Security.

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link

Alfred's post reminds me of an article about perpetual ratfucker Gingrich, who was wildly successful at his goals until the day he wasn't

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:55 (five years ago) link

iirc she has changed her tack on how she votes for bills like that one. she recently was the sole dem holdout on another funding bill I believe?

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:56 (five years ago) link

yeah I was gonna say that libcom link falls more under "legit critique of a particular action" than a "flaw" and if she's already moved on from that stance then so much the better.

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (five years ago) link

the way Congress operates you kind of have to either vote for some bad things or not vote for some good things because it all comes in the same bill. I don't think she'd actually vote against abolishing ICE if such a thing were to come up.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (five years ago) link

Cool thanks I wasn't really buying it too much (basically if you fuck with electoralism lib com goes after you)

But that's the only thing I've seen (and I almost always only entertain critiques of left-politicians from the left)

I was reading this piece on her call with Corbyn and she was swayed a bit on the allegations he is an anti-semite. That's more a product of doing too much twitter where everyone tweets to you with their agendas.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/how-to-think-clearly-about-anti-semitism-controversies-in-the-labour-party

But if the worst thing is that she might tweet something that isn't so good at times then she's doing amazing.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (five years ago) link

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:50 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump methods too. You float something outrageous (end birthright citizenship), everyone goes "THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS" and then the "smart" and "reasonable" people say "well actually lots of countries don't have birthright citizenship at all." Now you've shifted the debate into your territory, and maybe you can't change the constitution in that particular case, but you've weakened resistance to tighter immigration laws.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:00 (five years ago) link

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:03 (five years ago) link

I'm still laughing at this tweet chain where her chief of staff was clued in not to take a meeting with known grifters (original post deleted but you get the jist)

This guy is a dingbat grifter, take the time to do 3 seconds of googling bro

— Dan (@dankmtl) February 4, 2019

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:03 (five years ago) link

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link

frogbs otm, that would be the real overton window shifting strategy, but Trump literally doesn't understand it and is obsessed with numbers

If he were to get six billion he's still not building a wall, he's saying "we built it" and just tossing the money at the border patrol/DHS and never calling them to check to see where it went

he's stuck on six billion = wall

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

― frogbs, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:03 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump personally is a mental and emotional child. I mean Stephen Miller and the like.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:05 PM (fifteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I literally told a friend I thought she could be president back when we weren't even sure if she could win her primary. I don't attribute that to any special insight, it's plain to see.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:06 (five years ago) link

She’s actually impressive in an age of mass disillusionment.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link

I mean decisively taking down a well-liked establishment dude like Crowley with like 5% of the funding and no corporate endorsements whatsoever is legit one of the most impressive political accomplishments I've ever witnessed

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link

for sure

although "well-liked" might be a stretch -- I think he was a bit complacent and absent from his district, leaving more of an opening than realized. But def well-connected in queens overall. I mean, chair of the queens democratic party, mr. machine.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:10 (five years ago) link

I like her a lot and think she has a bright future, including a possible path to the presidency if she chooses to pursue it (which is a bit difficult to do from the House, historically). There is, of course, still plenty of time for her to flame out or not deliver on big legislative priorities, but so far she's been very sure-footed and she has excellent priorities and communications skills.

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:10 (five years ago) link

She is one of the most famous politicians in the U.S., but her fame greatly exceeds her political influence. Because she is widely understood to represent the "far left" within Congress, it is easy for her views to be dismissed by those with more power as being outside the political mainstream (even if they aren't). And if you're someone who wants to get Biden to drop out, you don't want that position to become thought of as a far left or otherwise extreme position, which could happen if she (or Sanders) vocally supported it. If Biden is going to be persuaded, it's going to be by moderate party loyalists.

jaymc, Wednesday, 10 July 2024 14:57 (one week ago) link

AOC is one of the most high profile and well known left leaning politicians in the world. My parents couldn’t name more than a handful of US politicians I’m sure but they both shared that select committee (?) video of her talking about marginal tax rates a while ago and how they work. It’s an absolutely inane argument to compare her to a random backbencher, because her profile is far more well known than politicians in actual governments in various countries. You can blame the Netflix show but it’s what it is.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 14:58 (one week ago) link

Netflix show?

jaymc, Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:01 (one week ago) link

Tipping The House? I've never watched it but my first brand recognition of her came from seeing her face over this on netflix.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:14 (one week ago) link

no it's Knock Down The House ...lol

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:15 (one week ago) link

I can name a LOT more US politicians now than I could before 2016. Ignorance was bliss.

nashwan, Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:32 (one week ago) link

Now that Britain has a new PM every few months I know more names than I used to as well

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:34 (one week ago) link

xp
once you recognise + know who Matt Gaetz is, you're already in too deep

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 15:36 (one week ago) link

no it's Knock Down The House ...lol

Oh, I saw that. It's a documentary feature. She was already a media darling before that came out, but I suppose it might've raised her profile outside the U.S.; I forgot it was a Netflix production.

jaymc, Wednesday, 10 July 2024 16:12 (one week ago) link

like, do most USAmericans care about Jacob Rees-Mogg and the assorted yapping swastikas of the British right? no, but i do because i care about my comrades in the UK being subjected to such shite


I actually agree with this!

Bad Bairns (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 16:25 (one week ago) link

i agree more with the point that the president of the united states has a long, far reach into the lives of most people in the world

id shallow that point a little by adding that if nothing else, an ilxor who wants the site to remain in any way usable for the next four years has an interest here on that score too

tuah dé danann (darraghmac), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 18:06 (one week ago) link

She's introduced articles of impeachment against Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito today.

Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 18:35 (one week ago) link

Sweet

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 18:36 (one week ago) link

Why not Kavanaugh too? What a sell-out.

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 18:41 (one week ago) link

obv not a believer in the full court press

tuah dé danann (darraghmac), Wednesday, 10 July 2024 19:36 (one week ago) link

Democratic Socialists of America have revoked their endorsement of her

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/status-of-dsa-national-endorsement-for-rep-ocasio-cortez/

beamish13, Thursday, 11 July 2024 13:32 (one week ago) link

stand in a circle and fire

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 13:59 (one week ago) link

Now face north

perpetually awkward, perennially unhappy (Neanderthal), Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:27 (one week ago) link

A little late here but amen to this, jaymc. It's surprising to me that this isn't obvious to more leftists:

Because she is widely understood to represent the "far left" within Congress, it is easy for her views to be dismissed by those with more power as being outside the political mainstream (even if they aren't). And if you're someone who wants to get Biden to drop out, you don't want that position to become thought of as a far left or otherwise extreme position, which could happen if she (or Sanders) vocally supported it.

Chyiv Kyiv (Fetchboy), Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:33 (one week ago) link

"She's introduced articles of impeachment against Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito today."

surely this hasn't a snowballs chance in hell

| (Latham Green), Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:44 (one week ago) link

Zero chance but it's good timing to get some eyes on their bullshit.

omar little, Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:46 (one week ago) link

She should focus on more realistic bills, like Medicare for All

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:46 (one week ago) link

stand in a circle and fire

She's not, in the DSA's view, standing for key principles - why would they endorse her?

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 11 July 2024 16:54 (one week ago) link

They can kick out whoever they want. It's their playground.

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:00 (one week ago) link

(shrug) Successful politics are generally based on drawing in more supporters, not kicking them away.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:05 (one week ago) link

Where are they supposed to draw a line? Should the DSA endorse homophobes if they're also pro-M4A? "Big tent socialism!!!"

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:07 (one week ago) link

I would kick out anyone who consumes organic matter or emits carbon dioxide.

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:13 (one week ago) link

According to the DSA's statement, one of their four most important non-negotiable requirements for earning their endorsement was that AOC "participate regularly in the DSA Federal Socialists in Office Committee". This is a measure of pettiness, not high moral principle.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:15 (one week ago) link

"Be involved in the organization" is hardly pettiness. If she's outgrown the organization (probably!) then their endorsement is irrelevant (completely!)... so what is the point of compromising on principle (aside from making liberals happy?)?

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:20 (one week ago) link

Aimless, what does it matter? If she broke a group's rules/code/whatever it's up to them to do what they like.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:22 (one week ago) link

She’s reneged on her commitment to ending America and Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people

beamish13, Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:28 (one week ago) link

I'm gonna need more resources to end America. Besides, the GOP's doing it for us.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:29 (one week ago) link

I was reading an interesting website that said AOC is quite dedicated to ending America

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:31 (one week ago) link

Endless war/terrorism is a bipartisan endeavour

beamish13, Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:34 (one week ago) link

I feel like whoever the DSA want to endorse or not endorse is up to them, and not something they need to justify externally.

anvil, Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:40 (one week ago) link

Aimless, what does it matter?

I guess you didn't notice the (shrug) in my initial post.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:46 (one week ago) link

"On Sunday, June 23rd, the DSA National Political Committee (NPC) voted to endorse Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) so long as she fulfills the following conditions"

Do political parties typically make public demands in exchange for their endorsements?

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:46 (one week ago) link

The Libertarian Party will endorse X if he agrees to

a) Smoke a bong with an von Mises decal on it

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:48 (one week ago) link

Is the DSA a political party?

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:52 (one week ago) link

According to the DSA's statement, one of their four most important non-negotiable requirements for earning their endorsement was that AOC "participate regularly in the DSA Federal Socialists in Office Committee". This is a measure of pettiness, not high moral principle.

But what were the other three?

the last visible dot (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:58 (one week ago) link

Chip in for coffee and snacks

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Thursday, 11 July 2024 17:59 (one week ago) link

No sure if you were being rhetorical* Doctor C, but:

1. Publicly opposes all funding to Israel, including the Iron Dome
2. Participates regularly in the DSA Federal Socialists in Office Committee
3. Publicly opposes all criminalization of Anti-Zionism, such as bills advancing the IHRA definition which conflates criticism of Israel with anti-semitism
4. Publicly supports BDS (Boycott, Divest, and Sanction) to end Israeli settler-colonialism

* I suspect you were, given how not like the others that one is.

rob, Friday, 12 July 2024 18:06 (one week ago) link

I was, which I regret as it would be more fair to Aimless to be direct. It's helpful to have this summary in-thread!

the last visible dot (Doctor Casino), Friday, 12 July 2024 18:53 (one week ago) link

so they booted her out for good reasons.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Friday, 12 July 2024 21:42 (one week ago) link

I'm gonna need more resources to end America. Besides, the GOP's doing it for us.

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 July 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Very interested in their program now

xyzzzz__, Friday, 12 July 2024 22:00 (one week ago) link

Point 1: Show up for meetings

A So-Called Pulitzer price winner (President Keyes), Friday, 12 July 2024 22:21 (one week ago) link

the most interesting thing to me is that according to their endorsement statement, if AOC were to embrace the other three points and not commit to regular attendance at that meeting, they'd still stiff her on the endorsement.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 12 July 2024 22:46 (one week ago) link

I really wish the supreme court was limited to 10 year terms or something. lifetime appointments are fo r monarchs and dictators

also related: supreme cort

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-gimn5st_Y

| (Latham Green), Thursday, 18 July 2024 15:04 (yesterday) link


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