Ozark

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Proceed with caution. I just finished the first season--I enjoyed it (and will start the second season tonight), but I'm sure there'll be some ridicule on this thread, with which I won't argue too strenuously. Throw plausibility out the window--I liked the general atmosphere and the performances (some of which, like the villainous head hillbilly, are quite over the top--in that instance, it's like over-the-top underplaying). It's basically one big gloss on Breaking Bad, except Jason Bateman's character out-Walters Walter White in his ability to talk himself out of the most perilous situations.

One thing I really liked near the end of the finale is the way it directly comments on the Tony Soprano-Don Draper-Walter White lineage of lead men who, without meaning to, often ruin the lives of those around them--family, business associates, casual acquaintances, everyone. (Stop reading here if you plan to watch.) A preacher who's wavering in his faith after his wife is murdered (thanks to events set in motion by Bateman's character) says he knows there must be a god, though, because (looking at Bateman) "If the devil exists then God exists, and you're the devil."

clemenza, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 00:12 (three years ago) link

I'm halfway through the second season. It's pretty meh. Ruth is the only good character left.

Yerac, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 00:34 (three years ago) link

By the way, I know I shouldn't be using "hillbilly"--what is the more acceptable term right now (I honestly don't know--it's not a big issue in Canada)? One of the show's strengths, actually, is that the Ozark locals are anything but what the stereotype is (and how Bateman treats them, albeit solicitously)--Ruth Langmore and the Snells play Bateman more than he plays them, and Wyatt Langmore seems like more of an authentic intellectual than Bateman's daughter.

clemenza, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 00:40 (three years ago) link

I think because I watched the new Arrested Development recently, I'm kind of over Bateman's schtick (who I used to like as an actor) and even think Laura Linney is bad this season. I want to bail on the second season. I dunno yet. I might also be mad that they killed off the one other interesting character.

Yerac, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 00:46 (three years ago) link

I thought Linney was great as always the first season; also liked the FBI agent, their downstairs neighbor, Ruth, Wyatt, and Rachel (Jordana Spiro--she reminds me of Pamela Reed). And the son fits in well with all the odd, spacey kids his age that have populated movies and TV the past couple of decades: The Ice Storm, The Squid & the Whale, Glen Bishop from Mad Men, there are a bunch of them.

clemenza, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 01:03 (three years ago) link

I liked Jordana Spiro in that weird show she used to be on (My Boys?), but she is also grating Season 2.

Yerac, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 02:34 (three years ago) link

why is the cinematography all SO DARK tho. can’t watch this in the day time

single bed mentality (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 07:54 (three years ago) link

You wanted a better look at Bateman Butt?

Yerac, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 12:44 (three years ago) link

Yerac: felt it starting to slip away in the second episode. Wendy's extortion of the senator's husband was too hokey even for House of Cards, and when Rachel reappears, she's someone who barely resembles her former self (with no indication in the first season that any of this was within her--she seemed quite solid). Something that had to happen sooner or later in season 1: the Ozark Mountain Daredevils on the soundtrack.

clemenza, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 12:48 (three years ago) link

Yeah, when Rachel showed up I was like "when did that happen?" I think we are on episode 5 right now. You like the FBI guy, I find him annoying too. Why am I watching this show!?!

Yerac, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 12:51 (three years ago) link

This looked so ugly that I didn't make it past the first episode.

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 01:01 (three years ago) link

I stuck with it, and while I could fill a few screens with implausibilities and problems--the biggest, for me, being that it seemed at times like the same endless argument between Bateman and Linney, each one taking turns one-upping the other--I'm glad I did. The performances stayed generally strong, though the FBI guy lapsed into a cartoon villain, Julia Garner went over-the-top occasionally, and I probably had more tolerance for Bateman than almost anybody else would. Prediction, not a spoiler: the Helen Mirren-like lawyer who is forever making reference to her shadowy client actually is the cartel (she was sinister at first--she's less good the more they try to soften her). I was wondering if there was going to be a third season; there is.

Not sure, but I think the first movie or TV show I've ever seen that used "Wichita Lineman." Fantastically, of course.

clemenza, Sunday, 25 November 2018 17:53 (three years ago) link

The lawyer was also on season 2 of Jessica Jones as more or less the same type of character. It's weird, I assumed they have used Wichita Lineman a lot in shows/movies but I can't think of any off the top of my head. So many versions probably make me think that.

Yerac, Sunday, 25 November 2018 19:14 (three years ago) link

six months pass...

I'm 3 eps into this and kinda debating whether or not to continue...indeed there are some intriguing & fun parts but it's kind of difficult to get past the overt similarities to Breaking Bad and moments like, y'know, the part where Bateman is about to kill himself, but his son just so happens to mention the Blue Cat Lodge, and how nobody goes there, blah blah blah, and he just happens to be at a crossroads, and look there's the Blue Cat Lodge...not to mention the gay FBI agent subplot...not to mention the lack of any interesting characters whatsoever (all I can see is Michael Bluth)...but still...its kinda alright? Does this show get better?

frogbs, Monday, 10 June 2019 16:51 (two years ago) link

nah not really
every episode I debate the same

kinder, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:58 (two years ago) link

it gets worse as it goes on, watch something else imo

forensic plumber (harbl), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 01:34 (two years ago) link

nine months pass...

I find it so hard to go back to these shows 18 months later (and I'm not going to rewatch the first two seasons). Season 3's up now; going into the first episode, all I really remembered was that Bateman and his family slithered out of some calamitous situation, and they decided to stay in the Ozarks and run the riverboat casino. So I'm watching, and I remember the family and Ruth and Darlene, but lots of people are missing: the old man who lived with them, the preacher, the gay FBI agent, Darlene's husband, etc. I remember Darlene's husband getting killed, and I think the old man died of natural causes, the others, I draw a blank. And I had no idea what was happening at the end of the first episode, as the Radiohead song played.

clemenza, Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:56 (two years ago) link

I came to this show late, so only watched seasons 1 and 2 a couple of months ago. Watched the season 3 premiere last night and enjoyed it basically just enough to keep going.

but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 28 March 2020 10:35 (two years ago) link

I have a feeling I will end up watching season three now. Damn you lockdown !

Ok. I think this show got laughably bad... But it won so many awards for the last season!

Yerac, Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:27 (two years ago) link

The lead actors probably deserve awards for pulling it all off with a straight face, but that is a surprise. Like unperson, I enjoy it in spite of itself.

clemenza, Saturday, 28 March 2020 15:14 (two years ago) link

Second episode was good!

That pre-credit sequence was just wow (and trying to figure out how it connected to anything just added to it). Wendy's brother looks like a great character. Laura Linney's "Okay" when he said Ruth was cute was priceless.

I'm still trying to piece together stuff I've forgotten. "Zeke? Oh yeah, I think remember something about that..." "Uh, Ruth and Helen clearly know each other..." I don't quite remember Ruth being quite so Andrew Dice Clay-ish the first two seasons.

It helps, as always, to turn your brain off. Wendy's scheme at the end is quite preposterous.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 March 2020 06:10 (two years ago) link

It's quite important that I stop overusing certain words.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 March 2020 17:01 (two years ago) link

I think my season three summary would be: Everyone's life gets progressively worse!

mh, Sunday, 29 March 2020 19:49 (two years ago) link

You watched the whole thing already?

clemenza, Sunday, 29 March 2020 19:54 (two years ago) link

No comment

(Yes)

mh, Sunday, 29 March 2020 19:55 (two years ago) link

I've liked the first three episodes enough that I expect I'll be finished in a few days. I will say that I'm surprised by Jason Bateman's direction (can't remember if he directed episodes previous to this season)--quite solid.

clemenza, Sunday, 29 March 2020 19:57 (two years ago) link

The plot with Wendy's brother becomes the source of much stress once you find out what's really going on

Agreed, his direction was good

mh, Sunday, 29 March 2020 19:58 (two years ago) link

Ben reminds me of Jason Lee in Almost Famous. The REO Speedwagon stuff in episode 3 cracked me up. "Are there any dentists out there?!"--right out of a Simpsons episode. The metal torture in episode 4 was a nice reference back to Noriega. Didn't find the scene in episode 4 where Maya visits Wendy at home all that credible (I mean even within the incredible world of the show). She's sharp enough that surely she must know Wendy's deeply involved in everything.

clemenza, Monday, 30 March 2020 04:01 (two years ago) link

One of the first concerts I saw as a kid was REO Speedwagon at a large outdoor event in 1991!

They might have had one of the shortest "few minor hits transitioning to playing primarily community events and conferences" careers.

I cracked up at "Hey, this guy is wondering if we could do some money laundering.." as if it was a normal ask for their booking

mh, Monday, 30 March 2020 14:42 (two years ago) link

Yeah, that was great. Deep somewhere in the Ozarks, no less.

clemenza, Monday, 30 March 2020 15:22 (two years ago) link

also shows how completely obvious "hey, we could have some of our employees run the merch booth.." and other questions are to anyone who has any idea about what money laundering looks like

mh, Monday, 30 March 2020 15:25 (two years ago) link

Episode 5: the guy Wendy goes to about intentionally losing money at the casino in exchange for a 6% kickback--I have no recollection whatsoever of who he is. Zero.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 15:21 (two years ago) link

Sue the therapist is a great character, so is the guy Wendy keeps calling, Damian Young from House of Cards.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 April 2020 05:22 (two years ago) link

Who’s watchin OZARK..? I just started. This MFs got serious PROBLEMS. But he can Talk his Fn ass off!

— ICE T (@FINALLEVEL) April 2, 2020

mh, Thursday, 2 April 2020 21:31 (two years ago) link

Sue the therapist rolling up Goodfellas-style in her flashy new sports car killed me. "Mar-ty...trust the process."

So long, Sue.

clemenza, Friday, 3 April 2020 13:12 (two years ago) link

Helen Pierce is scary. (Ben's commitment was a bit much, though.)

clemenza, Saturday, 4 April 2020 02:14 (two years ago) link

The episode that starts with Ben's monologue in the taxi and ends him in the restaurant--first episode I didn't like at all. He was a great addition early on, by this point he's a simpering annoyance who gets way too much screen time. I wanted Mike Ehrmantraut to show up and say "Shut up, Ben" before plugging him.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 April 2020 16:04 (two years ago) link

"ends with him"

clemenza, Saturday, 4 April 2020 16:05 (two years ago) link

so what you're saying is his plot arc is becoming clear

mh, Saturday, 4 April 2020 18:46 (two years ago) link

Unfortunate spoiler typo...

clemenza, Saturday, 4 April 2020 18:48 (two years ago) link

For what it's worth--I'm sure you did too--it was easy to guess where the episode was heading halfway through in the light of how they present Wendy this season. She's well into Lady Macbeth territory by now.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 April 2020 18:59 (two years ago) link

"She wants me to meet her mom."

That ending to episode 10 was incredible.

clemenza, Sunday, 5 April 2020 01:40 (two years ago) link

I didn't even realize that was the season closer till I went to read up on it now...

clemenza, Sunday, 5 April 2020 01:44 (two years ago) link

I liked s3, which I didn't expect as I really didn't like the first series. The writing isn't great but it's not awful. I recently tried to watch the first series of Mexico Narcos and it was appalling, such cornball no-nuance 80s soap opera with a big budget For Blokes trash.

So now I'm looking for something else to fill that Sopranos-style hole - latest series of Mr Robot is waiting but I just know I'll spend the first 3 or 4 episodes utterly clueless as to what is going on (why can't production companies cobble together a 10 minute recap at the start of each new season? WHY?). S3 and 4 of Billions is there but I get the feeling it's going to take a turn for the ludicrous.

What else is there that I've missed? I'm waiting until next week before I binge the latest Better Call Saul, but have I missed any great well-written HBO/Netflix dramas in the crimey non-fantasy realm?

NI, Monday, 6 April 2020 13:36 (two years ago) link

Highly recommend the second season of Fargo--which, except for one connection (fascinating but not crucial) can be watched as a standalone, independent of the first season.

clemenza, Monday, 6 April 2020 13:45 (two years ago) link

S1 of The Sinner is good. Unbelievable is a fine one and doner.

Would like to anti-recommend Fargo.

brechtian social distancing (Simon H.), Monday, 6 April 2020 13:51 (two years ago) link

oh, i like all seasons of Fargo.

Yerac, Monday, 6 April 2020 13:54 (two years ago) link

Will check The Sinner, thank you. Loved all of Fargo, really loved it

NI, Monday, 6 April 2020 13:58 (two years ago) link

I don't know if it's a consequence of being stuck inside so much but life on the Redneck Riviera seems pretty ideal.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 02:23 (two years ago) link

I've liked the first three episodes enough that I expect I'll be finished in a few days. I will say that I'm surprised by Jason Bateman's direction (can't remember if he directed episodes previous to this season)--quite solid.

He directed quite a few episodes of The Outsider and they were good too

groovypanda, Thursday, 9 April 2020 20:03 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

Good news (both that it's been renewed and that it's the final season so won't drag on and should hopefully have resolution)

Netflix's Ozark will return for a fourth and final season, split into two parts. https://t.co/IRiVnYp8OQ pic.twitter.com/WkXr1JxlBt

— IGN (@IGN) June 30, 2020

chonky floof (groovypanda), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:05 (one year ago) link

Cool. This is a good show

below the mendoza (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:18 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

I wish they had cast someone more interesting as Wendy

calstars, Saturday, 26 September 2020 03:08 (one year ago) link

Ruth makes it all worthwhile though

calstars, Saturday, 26 September 2020 03:25 (one year ago) link

You don’t like Laura Linney?

Mule, Saturday, 26 September 2020 11:29 (one year ago) link

wtf Laura Linney was so good

vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 26 September 2020 14:48 (one year ago) link

I don't like some of the contortions they take her character through, but Linney herself, I always like her.

clemenza, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:11 (one year ago) link

ffs Ruth is a yank from NY

calstars, Saturday, 26 September 2020 21:03 (one year ago) link

It took me, at least, four bags of cool ranch Ds, and 2 bags of popcorn and one pint of mint chip to make it through season 2, are you serious there’s another season of this shit

calstars, Saturday, 3 October 2020 22:14 (one year ago) link

This show is terrible but I can’t stop watching
Season 3 romantic hookups are so dumb
Laura linneys brother just stepped in from a season 3 perfect strangers episode

calstars, Saturday, 10 October 2020 12:14 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2020 season is nominated in the 2020 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2020 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends After January 29, 2021

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (3 minimum, 25 maximum, ranked by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail. It'll take five minutes; get to it!

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:40 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

S4 of my junkiest favourite show is up on Netflix now...will have to rewatch that incredible ending to S3 first.

clemenza, Friday, 21 January 2022 22:11 (four months ago) link

!

Forgot this was tonight!

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 21 January 2022 23:04 (four months ago) link

Re-watched the final episode of S3, but I still had lots of trouble remembering connections in the opening episode of the new season. It's been two years at least--can't remember the significance of Wendy's brother, why he had to be killed, the arrangement between Marty and the FBI agent, why the daughter's so on board all of a sudden (as the son reminded me, she once sued to get out of the family), etc. Javi seems to have wandered over from Better Call Saul--he's so Lalo Salamanca.

Always intrigued the way series that start out with virtually no pop music often seem to give in at a certain point and go semi-Scorsese: Sam Cooke, A Tribe Called Quest, Sister Nancy's "Bam Bam" (which I feel like I know but can't really place how), and--mercifully brief, so I'll give it a pass--the Ides of March's "Vehicle."

clemenza, Saturday, 22 January 2022 22:09 (four months ago) link

Plastic Bertrand!

clemenza, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 18:34 (three months ago) link

This season is really not great so far (I'm 3 episodes in). The private eye guy is the latest in the show's string of "how long will this annoying asshole be around before someone shoots him" characters. I do like the addition of Richard Thomas to the cast, as he's very good at playing scary guys who are underestimated until it's too late.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 26 January 2022 19:24 (three months ago) link

Is Thomas new? I couldn't remember him from previous seasons...such a good actor the past few years.

The thing I find so bizarre about the new season is the two kids. The daughter's about-face is practically Michael Corleone-level (not to mention the ongoing evolution of evil crime lord Laura Linney), while suddenly the son is a central character. And also...well, just about everything is absurd, including Jason Bateman's robotic detachment from it all. And, in spite of all that, or because of all that, I still find it compelling.

clemenza, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 19:37 (three months ago) link

Yeah, this season is weird. The daughter's about-face is def odd, but she's also been pretty marginalized as a character at this point, she's not really bringing much beyond delivering messages for the Byrdes without any agency of her own. It also feels like the already not always subtle Breaking Bad comparisons are being made even more blindingly obvious, what with the larger presence of the cartel players, the Lydia cipher working for a huge corporation with shady connections and, not least, Wendy's Walter White moment when she (apparently, I've not yet seen episode 6) watches Darlene die without intervening).

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 January 2022 20:12 (three months ago) link

Feel like Ruth Langmore could give Logan Roy a run for his money in artistry in swearing.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 January 2022 22:13 (three months ago) link

She says something like "What the actual fucking fuck, Marty?" in E4. One guy I like is Wendy's behind-the-scenes political operative; the same guy played a behind-the-scenes tech operative in House of Cards. Both characters are shadowy and reptilian and seem to just appear out of nowhere.

clemenza, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 22:29 (three months ago) link

Yeah, he's good.

Ruth will never top "I don't know shit about fuck", but she's been good this season.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 January 2022 22:30 (three months ago) link

Yeah, he's good.

have always liked him popping up in things since his roles in a couple early hal hartley films. weird-good presence.

andrew m., Thursday, 27 January 2022 14:50 (three months ago) link

Interesting how the use of music has evolved in this show, from Bob Seger/REO SPeedwagon to Plastic Bertrand/Tribe Called Quest. With shows like this I find myself less interested in predicting the final scene than guessing what song will soundtrack it.

henry s, Thursday, 27 January 2022 15:18 (three months ago) link

Anyone else watching with the captions on? At the start of every scene: "[insects chirring]." A lot of chirring going on in the Ozarks.

Finished up last night. I get the feeling they're out of ideas and just trying to get to the finish line. New plot twists pretty much amount to "kill someone" every time.

clemenza, Friday, 28 January 2022 19:23 (three months ago) link

Kinda how I feel about Westworld. New plot twists = "was a robot all along."

I like how in the current season the various overlaps in the Byrde/Cartel/Snell/FBI circles are brought to the fore, family turning on family, etc. Very King Lear.

henry s, Friday, 28 January 2022 19:37 (three months ago) link

What the actual fucking fuck, Henry?

(Sorry, you're right--just wanted to say that to someone.)

clemenza, Friday, 28 January 2022 19:45 (three months ago) link

Wish someone would say that to me from time to time - really wakes you up!

henry s, Friday, 28 January 2022 19:50 (three months ago) link

Yeah I don't know about this season - the shifting circumstances and alliances became so convoluted that often all sense of the stakes were lost. Also I absolutely loved Julia Garner previously, but she sometimes tipped over into overacting in this one, particularly in the final ep. I still smashed the whole thing in under a week, mind.

chap, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 23:04 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

Forgot this still had a half-season to go--resumes Friday.

clemenza, Wednesday, 27 April 2022 19:44 (three weeks ago) link

She’s back

hrep (H.P), Sunday, 1 May 2022 03:21 (three weeks ago) link

I've only watched the first episode, so maybe your comment looks ahead; I kept waiting for Helen to show up, with an explanation that her entire death was staged.

One thing I liked in a typically meandering episode (another long testimonial to how awful the Byrdes are--there's one every episode) was the scene where Ruth talked about Nas with the hip-hop guy she spotted in the restaurant.

clemenza, Sunday, 1 May 2022 16:40 (three weeks ago) link

One thing I liked in a typically meandering episode (another long testimonial to how awful the Byrdes are--there's one every episode) was the scene where Ruth talked about Nas with the hip-hop guy she spotted in the restaurant.

That scene felt super cringey to me. (That was Killer Mike from Run The Jewels, btw.) I didn't really like the use of pretty much the entire Illmatic album in that episode either. Although it's rare that a character in any TV show is shown having specific taste in music.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 1 May 2022 18:02 (three weeks ago) link

Missed that that was Killer Mike. Anyway, I liked it--I thought the two questions Ruth asked were pretty interesting.

clemenza, Sunday, 1 May 2022 18:30 (three weeks ago) link

Still on the fence if s4 is worth my time

calstars, Sunday, 1 May 2022 19:06 (three weeks ago) link

I'm not even sure if S1/2/3 were worth my time, but I'm still here.

clemenza, Sunday, 1 May 2022 21:28 (three weeks ago) link

Line I wish they'd included --

Killer Mike to Ruth: "You really have to cut down on the profanity."

clemenza, Monday, 2 May 2022 00:32 (two weeks ago) link

Lol Clemenza.

Finished it, both definitely not worth anyones time but also I enjoyed watching this? Like eating KFC, I know its bad before/during/after eating, but damn I’d probably do it all again.

Not stoked on the ending. Maybe I was too inattentive but I didn’t see the show pushing the “power wins everything” card harder than the “power will destroy you” card. To have the former be the key message in the last scene felt like an about face. Also, any illusion of Marty possessing humanity is destroyed, and that illusion was still very much real until that last scene. Disappointing, depressing, and (hopefully) distant from the truth of things.

hrep (H.P), Monday, 2 May 2022 00:45 (two weeks ago) link

Obviously the truth of things involves the Byrde story as presented to this point (power does cover a multitude of sins), but my understanding is that Byrde-like power always ends in immense failure/pain/loss (death comes for all, humbling the powerful more). Would have liked the show to acknowledge this rather than give the Byrde’s a victory lap and pat on the back.

hrep (H.P), Monday, 2 May 2022 00:50 (two weeks ago) link

The Killer Mike scene was Ruth daydreaming, right? Like (VERY MINOR SPOILER) the two coyotes she saw in the rv mirror right after, which then disappeared when she got out?

Mule, Monday, 2 May 2022 07:23 (two weeks ago) link

Interesting, hadn't even considered that. They did make it clear that the coyotes were fantasized, but I guess it's possible.

clemenza, Monday, 2 May 2022 12:29 (two weeks ago) link

they draw the line at election fraud! lol

andrew m., Monday, 2 May 2022 18:18 (two weeks ago) link

I was thinking today that the only time I've seen a TV show use a single artist the way Nas was used in E8 is a great Freaks and Geeks episode that had three or four different Who songs.

clemenza, Tuesday, 3 May 2022 03:11 (two weeks ago) link

I don't mind what they were going for with the ending from a character perspective honestly, but I felt that the events themselves were a bit anticlimactic. As did many I guess. Something even old fashioned about Ruth's final scene in particular, with Camila walking out from behind a random tree and Ruth being all "whelp the jigs up, ya caught me fair and square, just answer me this see, how did you find out whodunit?". I feel like if they had a draft of the script where Ruth gets into something more intense regarding Camilla... a chase or a fight or something etc. that would trigger shit hitting the fan this would have been a better payoff. As the party was getting into full swing and everything was going well and they were all talking optimistically about the future, it felt as if they were setting things up, overtly telegraphing even, an inevitable shit-fan-hitting. The fact that everything held together (aside from the Langmore curse delivering its ultimate punishment) seemed like the writer's way of "subverting expectations" or something?

Evan, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 17:01 (two weeks ago) link

Finally finished. A lot of the time, as often happens with me in S4s and beyond lately, I'd lost the plot. Things like the Foundation, or the urgency near the end of laundering money through--and only through--the casino, these things had long since lost meaning.

One good thing: in the final episode, I actually cared about the fate of Ruth. In this big convoluted mess, there was a character I cared about. And I liked "They Reminisce Over You" in the car just before she got to where she was going. How I thought that'd end: Camila admires that Ruth did the right thing by her family, and lets her go, maybe even enlists her for the cartel. I was looking for a storybook cartel ending--that's how I think.

As for the actual ending, standard Godfather stuff. It was okay

clemenza, Thursday, 12 May 2022 23:01 (one week ago) link

Wendy got off one great line to that guy Sam (the purpose of whom I never quite figured out): "I'm sure she'll be willing to teach you a lot of things."

clemenza, Friday, 13 May 2022 03:54 (one week ago) link

The ending was, fine, whatever. I've spent time with worse shows and Ruth was a joy to watch to the end.

I only have really two complaints about it:
1. The Camila/Ruth resolution was fine but way, way, way too rushed. Oh look, here's Clare Shaw to conveniently spill the beans at the most opportune moment!

2. Worse for me was the whole framing of the Byrde's car wreck. I get that they were going for a Gilligan-verse style flash forward thing, but holy shit was that pointless. Build up to a car crash that everyone walks away from without a scratch and is never referenced again, not even by the next scene, and had absolutely zero narrative implications. Just terrible and really soured me on the finale.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 13 May 2022 18:08 (one week ago) link

Shit! Why did that not work? Mods?

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 13 May 2022 18:09 (one week ago) link

You need individual spoiler tags for each paragraph.

castanuts (DJP), Friday, 13 May 2022 18:33 (one week ago) link

I watched s3 and the first half of this season + the finale and my primary takeaway from the show is that everyone is awful, everyone is bad and not part of your team

castanuts (DJP), Friday, 13 May 2022 18:35 (one week ago) link

Glad you mentioned the car wreck--yes, totally pointless. (Had actually forgotten all about it by the time it happened.)

clemenza, Friday, 13 May 2022 18:50 (one week ago) link

Everyone's behavior is so arbitrary and in service of generating more misery, it's a somewhat fascinating exercise in how much contempt you are willing to endure from your entertainment

castanuts (DJP), Friday, 13 May 2022 18:53 (one week ago) link

And--basically the same point--too cynical by half: make sure that the two characters who seemed decent, Ruth and the detective, get punished, and use all the bad people in service of the Godfather ending (Wendy's last line + Jonah = Michael Corleone).

clemenza, Friday, 13 May 2022 19:49 (one week ago) link


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