SB 51: the California politics thread

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What's up this year? Lots!

- The housing crisis, Prop 10 and SB 827 (RIP (for now))
- Prop 5 (and the hope of a split roll measure in a couple of years?!)
- Prop 6 (lol this is going to lose I hope)
- When did Gavin Newsom disappoint you first?
- Feinstein vs De Leon (lol) and the state democratic party
- The state republican party (lol)
- Ballot Measure C in SF (this one seems nuts!)
- What is the deal with all the ballot measures, isn't that what we pay these people for?
- high speed rail (lol)
- single payer (lol)

Let's talk about it!

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 14:57 (two years ago) link

someone explain SF measure C to me? is it doomed now breed, weiner, etc. are against it?

re: ballot measure 6, is apparently a lost cause at this point, ha, http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-gas-tax-repeal-campaign-cash-20180930-story.html. but prop 10 is not polling well either (and is kind of a mess legislatively as i understand it): https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article219033985.html.

LA measure B (city bank) is cool btw, and the LA times sucks for opposing it.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 15:01 (two years ago) link

I have no idea what's going to happen to measure C but I hope it passes. The split on the Dem side (Pelosi and various supervisors for it, bu Breed/Weiner/others against it) is kind of weird but idk how many voters really take their marching orders from Breed and Weiner tbh. Whereas everyone I know thinks bajillionaire companies paying more to house the people they've misplaced is a no-brainer.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:17 (two years ago) link

uh wtf at the DST prop?

I'm really behind the times, yall are going to have to hold my hand as I fill out my ballot. The only ones that seem clear cut to me on first blush are 6 (NO) and 10 (YES).

Catherine Power (Leee), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:38 (two years ago) link

agreed on 6 and 10.

the DST prop changes nothing but it gives the legislature the right to consider and in principle make changes. DST kills a few people people every march. vote yes IMO on that one.

the bond measures (1-4) are all yeses for me.

prop 5 extends the infamous prop 13 (i.e. restricts localities ability to fund education by restricting their ability to tax massive real estate wealth). you could make the case that extends it to be fairer, but any extension of prop 13 makes the task of removing it politically tougher. so no on 5 IMO.

8 11 and 12 are classic examples of "What is the deal with all the ballot measures, isn't that what we pay these people for?" i guess i'd be yes on 8, no on 11 and yes on 12?

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:48 (two years ago) link

Sent my ballot in the other day. Yeah C has been worth it just to see Benioff and Jack@Twitter complaining at each other in public.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:50 (two years ago) link

given the financial structure that tech VC encourage (i.e. avoid making a profit), i like that ballot measure C is a tax on revenue, not profits.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:51 (two years ago) link

caek did you go and get naturalized or somethin

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:54 (two years ago) link

no i can't vote, so i'm telling as many people as possible how to vote instead

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:55 (two years ago) link

that's very generous of you; if I couldn't vote I don't know how I could stand researching ballot measures

anyway not californian so y'all can do whatever as long as you don't come for our water

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:57 (two years ago) link

also lol at gerry brown's veto statement for the 4am last call option

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SB-905-Veto.pdf

"mischief and mayhem".

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 17:58 (two years ago) link

xp
He's the Frederik B of California!

nickn, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 18:02 (two years ago) link

ha i do live here fwiw

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 18:05 (two years ago) link

much as I find the Salesforce tower annoying (I work right next to it), I have to say this guy's allright. Or at least better than most.

Benioff and Salesforce have donated to multiple San Francisco Bay Area causes including $250 million to support hospitals, $11 million to help the homeless, and $50 million to public schools. In his talk, he acknowledges that some of city's business leaders haven't been as generous.

"I have gone hat in hand to every high net worth individual in the city," he said. "I know who is willing to give money, and who isn't. I already have the list. I know if we're going to raise money for our schools, the homeless and hospitals, there's a group of people in our city who are willing to give. And there's a group of people in the city who give nothing based on the level of wealth they have. You're either for the kids, the homeless and the hospitals, or you're for yourself."

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 18:52 (two years ago) link

graded on a curve he is easily the best of the bunch. SFDC has an obscure business relationship with ICE/CBP though.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:14 (two years ago) link

I have to admit I don't know what Salesforce does.

Catherine Power (Leee), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:16 (two years ago) link

Aside from putting their name on things around the city and buying Metallica.

Catherine Power (Leee), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:17 (two years ago) link

Salesforce makes Rolodex-as-a-Service for your entire company.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:23 (two years ago) link

considering the software they sell is basically a spreadsheet/database combo from the 90s, their research team is also bizarrely good at AI/ML, which is one of their reasons their involvement with CBP is unnerving.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:25 (two years ago) link

I've used a few Salesforce databases in my job and basically a spreadsheet/database combo from the 90s seems about accurate. tbf there was a huge need/demand for this, so their success is not really much of a surprise.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 19:46 (two years ago) link

Also it’s a federal election so off topic but it’s interesting because of the top two primary so: the congressional election where I live is between jimmy Gomez (democrat) and a Green Party guy. I believe this is the only two candidate congressional election involving the greens in the country. Based on the lawn signs and the number of times they’ve canvassed our home, the Green Party guy is going to run away with it. (He won’t. He’ll lose by like 40 points.)

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 02:49 (two years ago) link

I can't believe I am actually going to vote for Gavin Newsom for the first time in like 20 years? ... like I actually voted against him for Lt. Gov. because I hated him so much as SF Mayor and before that as appointed stooge to Willie Brown on the Board of Supes ...

otoh I'm kinda cool with Jerry Brown as governor, and I kinda hated him as mayor,

and actually a lot of the current bullshit in Oakland can kinda be laid at his feet, though not really. Like I don't think any one person can be held responsible for the incompetence, venality, and obstructionist idiocy that is a lot of Oakland government: the people that don't have to run for office, so they can be pretty much awful and stupid with few repercussions to their careers.

There's some new local version of Howard Jarvis Taxpayers sending out mailers to Oakland addresses arguing against voting for various property tax measures on principle.

Oh yeah, Yes on Measure Y -- extending Just Cause protection to people that live in duplexes and triplexes (as opposed to currently where it's like 4+ units)

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 05:54 (two years ago) link

yeah latimes had a lot of dirt on newsom a few months ago but he was still one of the favorites

i'm still registered to vote but i'm not in the country anymore, but i would vote for newsom

F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 06:03 (two years ago) link

I'm with sarahell on the mixed feelings about Newsom. He is a guy who I *really* don't like or trust, even when a lot of his policy prescriptions and positions line up with mine. He's just a fucking slimeball that wants to be president really badly. Dunno if I will bother voting for him, he's almost certain to be the winner anyway.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:35 (two years ago) link

i remember being a local blogger about 10 or so years ago and my fave thing was comparing him to Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:37 (two years ago) link

I think he is also a big fan of Huey Lewis & the News iirc

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:38 (two years ago) link

I can't hate him, he stepped forward to support same-sex marriage at a time when most of the rest of the country was charging in the other direction

Dan S, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:44 (two years ago) link

comparing him to Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman

yeah you weren't alone in this the similarity is just too eerie

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:54 (two years ago) link

he stepped forward to support same-sex marriage at a time when most of the rest of the country was charging in the other direction when it was most politically advantageous to him personally, handed the GOP a wedge-issue that helped get Dubya re-elected, resulted in the passage of Prop 8 in California actually *banning* gay marriage, and did not actually result in any valid gay marriages

fixed

that whole charade was nauseating, grandstanding at his worst. He knew he didn't have a legal leg to stand on and did it for the purposes of benefiting no one but himself.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:55 (two years ago) link

xp - even when in practice it was preaching to the choir and a high profile distraction from his pro-development/pro-corporate policies?

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:56 (two years ago) link

^^^

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:58 (two years ago) link

he has a history of this grandstanding, like when he wanted to improve the health of poor & working class San Franciscans by banning cigarette sales from chain stores with pharmacies -- that pretty much affected nothing except the ability to buy fairly low-priced cigarettes at Walgreen's stores. ... as opposed to walking a block or less to a liquor store and buying cigarettes

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:58 (two years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55cG7EytB7M

omg I pulled up this video to show how fuckin obnoxious he was at the time and the closed captioning is wild

**APPLAUSE BY HOMOSEXUALS**

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:58 (two years ago) link

xp the conversation it started was a huge push forward for gay rights

Dan S, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 16:59 (two years ago) link

i don't think he literally tried to feed a cat to an ATM tho

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:00 (two years ago) link

the conversation it started was a huge push forward for gay rights

he didn't start it - Alaska and Arizona already had gay marriage rulings on the books - he just made the splashiest (and emptiest) show about it. which is his modus operandi.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:03 (two years ago) link

xp Dan -- I'm not saying he's evil incarnate, just that it was a self-serving move. And it is often super useful to be reminded that in the central SF Bay Area, one lives in kinda a political bubble and that there is certain hair-splitting we do here, some more-progressive-than-thou type stuff, that looks ridiculous to most other Americans

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:04 (two years ago) link

Oh yeah, and Oakland has a mayoral election ...

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:05 (two years ago) link

Alaska and Arizona, come on. This *was* a big push forward.

Bush had already given his SOTU pressing for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. Massachusetts was on track to start allowing marriages in May of that year. A backlash was going to happen in 2004. And Prop 8 was a direct response to the California Supreme Court recognizing marriage rights in 2008

agree that it was a partly self-serving move, but it was also a very good thing

Dan S, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:11 (two years ago) link

yeah, on paper he has done all the right things, but you read into the details of his life and he is a total slimeball

thing is, how else would you vote if not on what he has done and the positives more or less outweigh the negatives

i feel like this single payer healthcare program was hyped a lot in california, but like it's crazy when you do the math

i'm not against it though

F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:36 (two years ago) link

on paper he has done all the right things

not when he was mayor! he did a lot of not-right things

sarahell, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:37 (two years ago) link

as mayor his sponsorship of Prop N (Care not Cash) was very controversial

Dan S, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:46 (two years ago) link

yeah, i know what you mean

i guess i should say given the options

F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:48 (two years ago) link

I agree that policy-wise I'm compelled to vote for him, more or less. At the same time, I absolutely hate watching him talk and prior to our current scandal-goalpost-moving POS chief exec I would have assumed Newsom was a lock for doing something scandalously unethical/illegal that would tank his career. I guess we're going to find out soon enough.

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:51 (two years ago) link

Well when the alternative is John Cox...

Catherine Power (Leee), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:58 (two years ago) link

i was listening to an interview with scott weiner and he mentioned that brown had vetoed the 4am last call thing but he would bring it back next year and didn't expect any problems with newsom on that issue. there was then a weird moment where the interviewer and weiner acknowledged that yes, newsom is a known partier.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 19:17 (two years ago) link

a friend of mine/former journalist wrote a semi-autobiographical novel that briefly features an obvious Newsom character riding around in a limo drinking champagne, doing blow and engaging in bisexual hijinks

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 19:23 (two years ago) link

"That, in turn, should be the opening line of your novel.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 19:39 (two years ago) link

god damn i need a voter guide who tf are all these yahoo local judges speaking in code

the late great, Thursday, 18 October 2018 03:59 (two years ago) link

i forget, are you in LA?

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Thursday, 18 October 2018 04:20 (two years ago) link

Thought experiment to prove ballot measures are bad: imagine we had them at the federal level. Think what would be this year’s prop 22, ie a well resourced group buying a law that cannot be repealed other than by a group with more money.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:04 (one week ago) link

removing Trump from office?

sarahell, Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:29 (one week ago) link

Prosecuting cops that kill black people?

sarahell, Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:31 (one week ago) link

Thought experiment to prove ballot measures are good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_103

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:35 (one week ago) link

(only it wasn't a thought experiment, 103 saved folks a lot of money and at least somewhat deflected the insurance industry's power in the state)

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:36 (one week ago) link

That’s a good law that happens to have been passed by a ballot measure. We have some good laws that were not passed by ballot measure too.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:47 (one week ago) link

removing Trump from office?


The recall system is good (and not what I’m taking about)

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:47 (one week ago) link

I can see the argument for ballot measures in a state where the government is hugely corrupt and no party is interested in doing the boring governance bit well, which I suppose is one reason they are more popular in the US than elsewhere haha.

But if that’s the problem, and extremely wealthy people/corporations having the sole power to submit ideas directly to the people is the solution, then why even have a representative legislature at all. Since representative legislatures are β€œauthoritarian” apparently.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Saturday, 24 October 2020 21:56 (one week ago) link

Somewhat related: for a long time, California government had a two-thirds supermajority rule which effectively gridlocked the state from doing much of anything except fund-raise and create fiefdoms among themselves. Ballot measures were the last resort for a lot of folks.

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 24 October 2020 23:51 (one week ago) link

Ironically they passed a ballot measure to require a supermajority in the legislature to raise revenue ten years ago

https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_26,_Supermajority_Vote_to_Pass_New_Taxes_and_Fees_(2010)

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Sunday, 25 October 2020 00:19 (six days ago) link

That link again

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Sunday, 25 October 2020 00:21 (six days ago) link

feels like that dialysis proposition is an example of what is bad about california state propositions. how are we supposed to figure out what it is about and vote accordingly? I voted no because I couldn't understand it

And then there are abominations like Prop 8

on the other hand, there are propositions that I can easily vote for, including most local bonds to improve infrastructure/schools/parks (that are always placed first on the ballot)

Dan S, Sunday, 25 October 2020 00:31 (six days ago) link

But if that’s the problem, and extremely wealthy people/corporations having the sole power to submit ideas directly to the people is the solution,

we could have a system where grassroots organizations can do this too? The ballot measure system allows for this. Just like, the representative democracy allows for elected officials to conscientiously consider the needs of their constituents and legislate accordingly. Neither of these things are impossible. I see, in my idealistic mind, a system, where these work as checks and balances of one another -- the ballot measure as safety valve for when elected officials don't serve the public. ... Where I live, wealthy corporations are funding opponents to progressive candidates for local office (I doubt our city is unique in this) ... it isn't that ballot measures are the evil thing here, it's wealthy people/corporations' influence

sarahell, Sunday, 25 October 2020 01:48 (six days ago) link

Like, in my example of a federal ballot measure about prosecution for racist cops that murder black people -- which I noticed you just conveniently ignored. Black Lives Matter (and related orgs) could sponsor a ballot measure on this subject. This could affect more equal change statewide, as opposed to just acting at the local level, where the results depend on the politics of elected officials in those localities, as well as the varying structures related to oversight of law enforcement. In other words, you will likely get more justice in Berkeley than in Bakersfield. ... which sucks for black people (and those who care about them) who happen to end up at the wrong end of a cop's gun in Bakersfield.

sarahell, Sunday, 25 October 2020 01:54 (six days ago) link

how do you have a ballot measure to (1) prosecute crimes (2) murder is already illegal (3) prosecute crimes against one race
sorry i don't know why i clicked this thread, i've never even been to CA, but ballot measures are the worst and putting any criminal law on the ballot is a recipe for disaster. anti-minority by definition. do they even allow criminal laws to be enacted by ballot measure?

superdeep borehole (harbl), Sunday, 25 October 2020 01:58 (six days ago) link

ballot measures lead to vibrant civic engagement, as this crucial text proved

https://i.imgur.com/7h2Ie1O.jpg

Un-fooled and placid (sic), Sunday, 25 October 2020 02:31 (six days ago) link

we could have a system where grassroots organizations can do this too? The ballot measure system allows for this.

in a legalistic sense yes, and i think i agree that ballot measuress would be good in an ideal world. but in a practical sense, no it doesn't allow for this. it costs an average of $5m to gather signatures and for anything remotely contentious it costs several times (5, 10, 20?) more than that to actually get the votes to pass. see https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_measure_signature_costs,_2020 and the tweet upthread about how much is being spent on each measure and where the money is coming from.

e.g. the only reason rent control is on the ballot (again, after failing in 2018) is a single incredibly wealthy person in LA (michael weinstein). there's thousands of organizations advocating for rent control, but they do not have access to the ballot measure system as a practical matter.

I see, in my idealistic mind, a system, where these work as checks and balances of one another -- the ballot measure as safety valve for when elected officials don't serve the public. ... Where I live, wealthy corporations are funding opponents to progressive candidates for local office (I doubt our city is unique in this) ... it isn't that ballot measures are the evil thing here, it's wealthy people/corporations' influence

i agree with this. my point is that the nature of the ballot measure system (huge up front costs, and if they pass they are impossible for the legislature to undo, and almost impossible for another ballot measure to undo) make the problem of money worse in ballot measures in 2020 than it is in representative democracy.

also it's not checks and balances if the legislature can't undo a ballot measure. it's just a system by which people with enough money can override the legislature.

Like, in my example of a federal ballot measure about prosecution for racist cops that murder black people -- which I noticed you just conveniently ignored

i ignored it because as harbl said it would get refused by the state attorney. it's not a law. it's like something on https://twitter.com/rejectpetitions.

This could affect more equal change statewide, as opposed to just acting at the local level, where the results depend on the politics of elected officials in those localities, as well as the varying structures related to oversight of law enforcement.

this is an argument for passing good laws at the state or federal level by any method, or for amending the state or federal constitution. i don't understand how it's an argument for ballot measures in particular.

do they even allow criminal laws to be enacted by ballot measure?

there's a ballot measure this year to recategorize a bunch of misdemeanors as felonies. cool system.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Sunday, 25 October 2020 03:18 (six days ago) link

As long as special interests have their undue influence in politics, every one of these rotten ballot measures is antidemocratic. Fuck em all and fuck prop 22 especially.

thewufs, Sunday, 25 October 2020 04:21 (six days ago) link

Tsk.

Coming down to the wire: New poll on Prop 22 in California, 46% yes, 42% no.

It’s the most expensive ballot measure campaign in California history, with 90% of the funding comes by from gig companies trying to rewrite labor law. https://t.co/JZHtydpSE3

— Matt Pearce πŸ¦… (@mattdpearce) October 26, 2020

Ned Raggett, Monday, 26 October 2020 15:14 (five days ago) link

haha

really feel like we haven’t talked enough about this absolutely hilarious Realtors flyer pic.twitter.com/gPcHRTxgU6

— fry votes yes on 15 & 21, no 22 (@anniefryman) October 23, 2020

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 17:29 (four days ago) link

there is apparently another in this series with a white man in a fancy suit holding up two bags of "money" standing in front of a large house. It's partly hilarious because "bags of money" and also because he is holding them in the way you see people holding fish they caught, with the same triumphant expression

sarahell, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 17:38 (four days ago) link

That one is on the back of the mailer.

john shopkins (naus), Wednesday, 28 October 2020 06:47 (three days ago) link

Ha!

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Wednesday, 28 October 2020 14:33 (three days ago) link

doesn't that look like a "person holding fish" pose??

sarahell, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 16:28 (three days ago) link

w..ow

.@GavinNewsom also DECLINED to take a #Prop22 position today, signaling his continued desire for an #AB5 deal w gig tech companies:

"I want to position ourselves as it relates to this issue in a position where we can accommodate if there is a need and desire to see compromise"

— Jeremy B. White (@JeremyBWhite) October 29, 2020

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Thursday, 29 October 2020 22:20 (two days ago) link

hahahah oh Gavin, you are still the same person who all the good leftists loathed when you first ran for Mayor of SF against the dreamy Matt Gonzales ...

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:05 (yesterday) link

w..ow

― π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Thursday, October 29, 2020

OTM

informal poll... am I a weirdo outlier in really disliking both #AB5 and #prop22?

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 30 October 2020 00:12 (yesterday) link

uhhh in your opinion, what should be the "employment" relationship of gig workers and other freelancers that more and more have been mis-characterized as independent contractors?

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:17 (yesterday) link

what is the polling on 22? is it likely to lose?

Dan S, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:19 (yesterday) link

last I saw, it was close?

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:26 (yesterday) link

Ab5’s heart is in the right place but I think the consensus is it’s a badly written law with a lot of unintended consequences (most of which have been fixed?)

Prop 22 sucks.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 00:31 (yesterday) link

yeah - a bunch of things in AB5 got fixed re the arts and cultural workers ...

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:40 (yesterday) link

Prop 22 is 46% for and 42% against, and undecideds have been breaking evenly from earlier polls, so it'll likely pass.

nickn, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:48 (yesterday) link

Maybe. Ballot measures are very hard to poll.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 00:51 (yesterday) link

still hoping it fails

Dan S, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:52 (yesterday) link

why are they hard to poll?

lukas, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:53 (yesterday) link

Oh, Gavin. Voice so gravelly, hair so slick. Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful

the burrito that defined a generation, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:53 (yesterday) link

I'm glad I engaged with this thread last month and learned me some info-facts on prop 22. I pragmatized my new knowledge and got into a text convo with my mom about it where I am proud to say I successfully persuaded her to change her (easily persuaded) mind from a no I think they should be able to stay independent to a hmm yes I understand now.

the burrito that defined a generation, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:55 (yesterday) link

Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful

hahahaha for sure, and also we will all be reminded of the classic bearskin rug pic with him and Kim Guilfoyle ... still, he has actually been a less bad governor than I had expected.

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 02:04 (yesterday) link

Fun story -- almost half of SF's reigstered voters have already voted, Alameda County at 46%.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Bay-Area-s-early-votes-are-pouring-in-15682880.php

Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 02:07 (yesterday) link

Ab5’s heart is in the right place but I think the consensus is it’s a badly written law with a lot of unintended consequences (most of which have been fixed?)

Prop 22 sucks.


Prop 22 is a hell no for obvious reasons and the yes campaign and endorsements are shady af.

Not so sure about AB5’s heart tbh. It addresses a genuine need but it’s also move fast and break things for ambitious legislators, and let the chips fall where they may.

β€œWriters and musicians want their livelihoods back? They can come kiss the ring and we’ll consider it.”

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 30 October 2020 05:36 (yesterday) link

I like the succinctness of Ned’s linked tweet regarding 22: β€œβ€¦gig companies trying to rewrite labor law”

john shopkins (naus), Friday, 30 October 2020 08:05 (yesterday) link

why are they hard to poll?


California polling generally isn’t very good because it’s of limited national importance, ballot measure wording is very unclear and often doesn’t get clarified in voters minds until very close to the election, high undecideds/don’t know/literal guesses as responses.

And this is not a reason why they’re hard to poll but why you should treat them with skepticism: ballot measure polls often have small samples, and there are often only one or two of them so taking an average doesn’t help a lot with all the above.

π” π”žπ”’π”¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 16:01 (yesterday) link

I will say this about GOTV efforts on 22 -- as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.) I'd been receiving regular messages by text or voicemail once a day from either them or associated groups (including MoveOn? politics, strange bedfellows) for a couple of weeks now, reminding me about that and voting in general. After I turned my ballot over the weekend I responded to the next text after that confirming I'd voted and voted against 22 -- got a quick thank you note back and I haven't been contacted by anyone since. Which is good! It means they're running an operation that appropriately takes people off their contact list once they don't need to be contacted again and can concentrate elsewhere.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:20 (yesterday) link

as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.)

The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they? The UC bindery/printing services workers have become teamsters in the past 10 years I think.

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:24 (yesterday) link

As for 16

MY LATEST @LATIMES COLUMNA: Latino ambivalence about affirmative action could doom Prop. 16. RT, porfas! https://t.co/QWLhXpbgP9

— Col. Gustavo Arellano (@GustavoArellano) October 30, 2020

Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:33 (yesterday) link

The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they?

I don't know about library jobs in specific though it's not surprising -- I'm part of it in the UC context, where the old UC clerical workers union, CUE, which includes library assistants like me as opposed to actual librarians who have their own union/org, chose to affiliate with the Teamsters about a decade back. Absolutely the case that the Teamsters have made getting public employee unions on board and a handy part of the drive has been further incorporating other nonrepresented employees via state labor decisions and so forth, and maintaining a high paying membership (consistently over 80%) even after Janus -- and keep in mind before the Teamster affiliation actual paying membership was down in the mid-20s. Anyway, it's been good to be part of this larger whole, though of course other public employee unions also means affiliation with, how you say, certain people known currently for their uniforms, firearms and the like when carrying out legal responsibilities. The reckoning has not yet come there.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:37 (yesterday) link

oh right -- I forgot you were UC affiliated.

sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:39 (yesterday) link


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