BOB FOSSE: the films

NYC retro upcoming... Don't know if I have the stomach for Star 80, but will try to see Sweet Charity at last (35mm).

https://quadcinema.com/program/performance-anxieties-fosse-at-the-movies/

Liza with a Z is the best thing of its kind I've seen; he shot it with 8 film cameras in a Broadway theater, and it's before coke and age made Liza "too much."

not sure what the best is but the worst is surely Lenny

Only seen Cabaret. All That Jazz is a major blind spot; I'll correct that soon.

I'll leave it up to the thread to convince me whether or not I should care about any of the others.

I need a rewatch of Lenny, but I've always preferred it to All That Jazz. Might've been better if Fosse didn't need a star, and Cliff Gorman had played it instead of Hoffman.

Would really like to see Damn Yankees in that Quad retro, but I'll be at a baseball seminar in Boston.

I can't bring myself to watch Star 80, it just seems so luridly depressing

Sweet Charity is fun and has a couple of incredible numbers, Cabaret is great for what it is (RIP Joel Grey), All That Jazz is an all-time favorite of mine so kinda leaning towards that

unless you're breaking a story, Joel Grey is alive.

He also came out as gay fairly recently.

huh I could've sworn I read he passed recently, I must be mixing him up w someone else

Tab Hunter? choreographed by Fosse in Damn Yankees!

haha no I def wouldn't confuse those too

don't mind me!

two

All That Jazz or Cabaret.

I have the Lenny soundtrack but also the Broadway cast recording with Cliff Gorman.

Also: whaaaaaat???

http://www.vulture.com/2018/07/sam-rockwell-michelle-williams-to-star-in-fxs-fosse-verdon.html

This is apropos of nothing, but one time I saw a Cavett rerun on Decades where his guests where Robert Downey Sr., Gwen Verdon, Garrison Kanin, and Jimi Hendrix. It was the TV equivalent of the "Photos taken of famous people you never..." thread.

It's SHOWTIME, folks!

re that casting by FX, i like those actors, but can they dance? and if they're playing 25 til 60, Rockwell in particular is too old.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Doing music (ie compiling backing tracks) for cabaret dance stage shows in Turkey, my sister (who ran the shows) wanted the song "All that jazz" on one, and gave me a bunch of soundtrack lps.

However, although "All that jazz" had lots of usable tracks on there, one thing it doesn't have is....

Happily, someone had it on a ropey cassette, so show was saved!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Correct.

tragically wrong, in 1979 and now

jesus. what are these results?

cabaret is the best fassbinder film. all that jazz is so annoying and macho. "my name is elaine-"my name is veronic"name is ronald"

sweet charity is obviously the best one (best numbers, shirley maclaine)

xo plax

still havent seen SC

just watched Sweet Charity last week - wonderful, strange, doesn't feel overlong even at 153 minutes, and yeah the songs are great ("Please Belong to Me" especially, despite John McMartin).

yes!

didn't vote, would have voted for Cabaret over All That Jazz

the less like All That Jazz, the better. not confident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDjEZmsiXQE

(Sam Rockwell and Michelle Williams, icymi)

Have the people who voted All That Jazz seen Cabaret? Just wondering.

yes

the only one I haven't seen is Star 80, which I just can't bring myself to watch

Better than its reputation suggests, a bit like the estimation of ATJ in the last decade feels like overcompensation.

it just seems so ghoulish/gruesome idk

I don't remember it as such, but the person on whom the Hemingway character is based meant nothing to me.

I can't find Star 80 anywhere

rented from a video store in the early 00s.

Star 80 is out in the original aspect ratio via Warner Archive (original disc was pan & scan).

omg michelle williams as gwen verdon what a fn insult so rude

Star 80 definitely gruesome, the character of Paul/Eric Roberts is kinda compelling

who tf voted for Star 80 ahahaha

what a weird icky movie

not awful but man can't believe BOB FOSSE directed it

Have the people who voted All That Jazz seen Cabaret? Just wondering.

― brimstead, Tuesday, January 8, 2019 2:05 PM (three weeks ago)

yes

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, January 8, 2019 2:46 PM (three weeks ago)

Yes

yEs!

Finally saw Sweet Charity in 35mm... Typical overproduced Broadway adap of the era, with two great numbers in the first 30 minutes; then it becomes exhausting. Shirley' trio dances with Chita Rivers and Paula Kelly are nice, once she get out of Ricardo Montalban's pad. It goes on forever.

Good baedeker to the films, incl those he choreographed:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-bob-fosse-film-festival-diary

I think its the fullest record of his Broadway choreographic style in any film. The closest second is Pyjama Game, but that is destroyed by miscasting. There are far more than two great numbers. Disappointed you didn't enjoy it more.

well, the Sammy Davis number is *crazy*, but i wouldn't exactly call it good. They should've cut the book down a lot more.

Neil Simon probably had it in his contract that they couldn't cut the book.

The DVD has a swell vintage making of feature with a lot of Fosse being Fosse. It's not on youtube, but I did find this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YD7TPuJkEs

10 minutes of Chalamet in a High School production of the show.

I have my doubts... not sure even then he could wangle such a deal for a hire job. The elevator scene is utterly Simonesque.

That high school is, of course, "Fame" High School.

i think they had to rewrite it quite a bit for the film. afaik the elevator scene is more important in the stage version.

XP

Doy! I was wondering what kind of High School would (A) Do that show, and (B) Have as slick a production.

yeah, there was a whole dithering about whether to go closer to Fellini (ie prostitute instead of dance hall girl). Plus Peter Stone, an Oscar winner with several hits to his credit, was hired to rewrite the script, and gets sole adaptation credit.

Love the soundtrack and the best numbers are phenomenal (Big Spender especially) but this is a much slighter musical than the film admits. Should be 45 mins shorter. The scenes with Ricardo Montabahn are so frustrating to sit through. Just dispensing with scenes where Charity merrily prances in trippy slo-mo through New York would have saved 10 mins.

"Please Belong to Me" or whatever it's called is my favorite song in the movie... actually the only one I can remember. John McMartin pleading "please" as the backing track fades away is haunting. Movie is way too long though.

As the Broadway hit and the film coincided with my preschool-to-grade-2 period, I bet I heard "Big Spender" a hundred times before I was eight. (TV variety shows, the Peggy Lee and Shirley Bassey records, etc)

Sweet Charity cost $20 million and only grossed $8 M... Fosse was lucky he got the backing to do Cabaret.

There's a generation out there that identifies "If They Could See Me Now" w/Kathie Lee and cruise ships.

In the Fosse/Verdon TV series, the Tony-winning actor Norbert Leo Butz is playing Paddy Chayefsky. I didn't know he and BF were friends, but Fosse tapdanced at his funeral, per agreement. Imagine that crowded room when the two of them and their egos were around...

Bob was not a great dancer himself, so I think Rockwell can get by, but it'll be intriguing to see if Michelle can fake Gwen's chops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_w3UNHPIXQ

are you joking? fosse was an amazing dancer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ItaESaGWMk

I just meant he was never gonna be Astaire or Kelly in Hollywood. Verdon was his ticket, performance-wise.

from the frank gilroy book im reading

"I bumped into Bob Fosse en route home after a day of shooting All That Jazz. He looked spent but happy. Was carrying an open wine bottle and glass. 'Want a drink?' he invited. I declined. 'How's it going?' I asked. 'Great,' he said with a joy that was almost reverent."

I could swear Fosse did an American Express commercial around 1980, but it doesn't appear to be online

well, cable dudes?

I know it's not about that end of it, really, it's about the interpersonal relationships, but I really wish Fosse/Verdon had more singing and dancing in it.

I don't know if this is the correct thread to talk about it.

TIL: Bob Fosse’s goyishe staple at Carnegie Deli was corned beef with mayo on white, which jesus christ

— Matt Prigge (@mattprigge) May 20, 2019

Anyone watching Fosse/Verdon?

Watched it all when it ran here earlier this year -- sometimes hard in that Fosse himself was just too much the asshole in real life and what are you going to do, but I'm glad I did see it all, its best moments are stellar.

I got tired of it and didn't make it to the end. Mostly it felt like an excuse to recreate musical numbers that were better in their original performances.

2 eps in, enjoying the hell out of it. It's surprising how popular Verdon was, as she's not hugely well known here in the UK. Rather brilliantly it's showing on the BBC. The whole thing is gratis right here if anyone fancies it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00077ch/fosseverdon-series-1-1-life-is-a-cabaret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIiZuAVZH4w

I need to watch the show while it's still on iplayer, there was a great doc about Gwen on the BBC last month, she was an absolute force

It's no great movie musical... the numbers are mostly flatly staged. But Verdon is the best reason to watch.

Yah so sad that her and Haney have such a small legacy on film

Lenny is more bearable than it might have been in other hands, thanks to Fosse's direction and the lead performances. The writing is definitely the weak link, which is odd considering that it was based on (what I assume was) a well-regarded play. Glad I saw it, though; another one of the key American 70s films I can check off my list.

Cabaret remains the best film I saw for the first time this year. Stunning.

watched All That Jazz again tonight after many years. It is one of those films that is not available on streaming but I was still able to rent the Netflix dvd 12 days before they close their service forever

It is an awesome film. I thought the best extended scene in it was the spectacular opening sequence with the massive number of striving dancers performing ~somewhat~ in unison on stage in a big theater, who are seen from a distance and who are hoping to be cast but are mostly categorically rejected…

but after that it was also the two-part “Take Off With Us” dance scene, the first part being a very pleasing anodyne Broadway jazz number and the second being a much more daring erotic piece that had the showrunners covering their eyes.

and the somewhat cringy "Bye Bye Love" surreal scene at the end was utterly amazing

Yes, it's aired on Reel 13 on PBS a couple of times recently. Concur re: Take off with us and the surreal extended "Bye Bye Love" at the end.

The scene where his girlfriend and daughter perform choreography stood out for me

I know the first half of “Take Off With Us” is meant to be saccharine and corny but, damn, it really works in spite of itself

It does. It was an ears-pricking-up moment in the film

The scene where his girlfriend and daughter perform choreography stood out for me

― Deflatormouse, Sunday, September 17, 2023

It was really nice, maybe the single most happy scene

I had to watch "Take Off With Us" both parts multiple times. There was so much going on in those scenes

Yeah i had the same instinct after seeing the film for the first time, cued Take off with us on Youtube right away

Fosse seems like the progenitor of all of the short-cut clips so prevalent in videos and movies in the last 30 years, which have chopped dance sequences up so you can't really see anything. He did it really well, but it has become ubiquitous and degraded since then

FYI, It's been available on Tubi to stream

...and there's a loaded Criterion DVD/BluRay that's been available for almost 10 years.

Fosse was in The Little Prince!

Just was looking at the DVD Beaver comparison page for ATJ, this is framegrab from one of the featurettes from Fox's special edition DVD that was ported over to the Criterion:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews28/a%20all%20that%20jazz%20bob%20fosse/menu%20new%20%20%20ALL_THAT_JAZZ-7.jpg

IMAGE HERE