I honestly don’t know where else to talk to about this.
So a longtime IRL friend (we’ve been friends since 7th grade) of mine who I still hang out with fairly frequentlyhas enmeshed himself in the online circle of aggrieved man-children surrounding “comicsgate” and the Right-ish shithead politics involved with it. He himself recently finished a graphic novel and is trying to raise money to get it independently published, which I suspect was how he got sucked into this.
Recently I noticed a rightward slant to a lot of his social media posts but it wasn’t until today when I took a closer look and saw that he’s been hobnobbing with a lot of alt-right adjacent type folks and actively arguing with “SJWs”. He’s always been an opinionated, stubborn bastard (as am I) but his opinions were usually relegated to things like comics and movies. Now he’s apparently following dudes like Stephen Crowder and tweeting recommendations for books by Ben Shapiro. BEN MOTHERFUCKING SHAPIRO. Ugh.
Maybe I’m a shitty friend but that’s kinda beyond the pale, no? I can’t expect everyone in my life to share my politics but some kind of baseline “don’t be a right-wing piece of shit” rule still applies, right?
It’s just heartbreaking because he’s not a jerk at all IRL. He’s always been a good friend and has helped me out and had my back numerous times. But in his online life he’s kinda turning into a real “why won’t you let me debate you, coward” sort of douche.
So far this hasn’t come up because these days we don’t really interact online much (and in fact it was only today I realized how far down the rabbit hole he’d gone). We get together to do pub trivia once a week and that’s usually our hang out time.
He’s aware of my political leanings but then again I’m not sure he understands why his newfound preoccupation with owning “SJWs” online would be alarming to me. I feel debating him would be fruitless. I’m too thin-skinned anyway. I dunno. This is such a bummer to me.
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 00:16 (two years ago) link
I think lightly sticking to the “that’s not really my experience, why do you say that?” soft peddling of dissent works if you’re trying to remain friends. Being involved in his non-political social life helps, because sometimes this shit is contrarian internet junk where dudes lack a really social outlet and decide the best way to do so is to get really angry and blow off steam, which is where these outrage merchants really dig in
If you do feel the need to call out, be cautious and stick to issues and not widespread anti-whatever stances. As much as those types like to complain about identity politics, they tend to stick all of their issues together and anyone challenging one piece is an affront to their adopted conservative identity.
― mh, Monday, 14 May 2018 00:25 (two years ago) link
Being involved in his non-political social life helps, because sometimes this shit is contrarian internet junk where dudes lack a really social outlet and decide the best way to do so is to get really angry and blow off steam, which is where these outrage merchants really dig in
Yeah he’s always been the type to adopt an opinion and be extremely, rigidly adamant about it and then later adopt a completely different opinion and act as if he’d always thought that way. Being his friend for almost 25 years I’m pretty used to that but this time his gripes and resentments are being reinforced by a whole community of fellow agry nerds with which he networks. It’s kind of terrifying, to be honest.
The only remotely “comforting” aspect of this whole business is that most of my friend’s bullshit is currently confined to the world of comics. Which is probably why I haven’t noticed it until now.
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 02:56 (two years ago) link
I suppose, to add a minor point to what mh has said, stick to the talking about the ideas/behaviours rather than making it personal ("that idea doesn't ring true to me" rather than "you're wrong and bad, and here's why")? Possibly implicit too, but I often find that approach works better than personalising things too much.
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Monday, 14 May 2018 06:35 (two years ago) link
I have this, though its a relative (in their 30s). Its been gradually increasing over the last few years, jordan peterson, ben shapiro, there are 37 genres now , snowflakes, virtue signalling, brexit, cultural marxism, jacob rees mogg, socialists. The own understanding or nuance isn't there, the straight repetition of right wing talking points.
What to do? the conclusion Ive come to, is...nothing. You have to look at yourself here, what is this debating you're imagining is going to happen. A debate is when two people accept the premise or framework of such. If you think you're going to go in their house and change their mind, it doesnt work like that. Any 'debate' should be initiated by them, not you, and only partake if they are asking you something, not if they are telling you something and putting a question mark on the end. Otherwise, you're being used by someone honing their opinion, you're fulfilling a role. The radicalized person never asks open questions.
But also you have to be honest with yourself - any kind of "yes, but dont you think that"....this is no good, for anyone!
I think when this happens you're dealing with something more existential than a debate really covers. 'Are you one of us, or not, anything else is just hot air'. I was once asked in email, by my relative, about my thoughts on the situation with Russia. I have a fairly detailed answer trying to cover as many bases as possible. Did it make any difference to anything? Ive no idea because there it was never mentioned again, it wasnt what they were looking for, they were looking for Britain good Russia bad - any detail on it, they saw as obsfucation, a dilution of the greater point. I will answer if they ask questions like this, and answer in good faith, but I wont push anything. Any such debate is framed around 'winning' (damn, all those videos on youtube where somebody is EVISCERATING or DESTROYING somebody else!)
I have a simple(ish) rule, if someone asks me openly or in good faith, I will respond the same. If someone talks at me, the best they'll get is "nah, not for me, dont see that at all", but they are more likely to get "ah, no idea, dunno owt about it mate". You don't have to be involved in statements masquerading as conversations!
― anvil, Monday, 14 May 2018 07:11 (two years ago) link
Sorry its a bit unfocussed, Ive had this on the go for a while! quite hard to condense thoughts on the fly
― anvil, Monday, 14 May 2018 07:24 (two years ago) link
One thing that struck me about this form of self-radicalization is how much its about repetition - simplification and repetition. For people making the mistake of engaging on some of these topics, its not about being on the right or wrong side of that topic, its about having that topic be the one with airtime, conversation time. A conversation about 'the BBC and the universities are brainwashing youth with cultural marxism, the police will come after you for using the wrong pronoun, Birmingham is now a no go city run by muslims". Really? This isn't a conversation that even deserves 'I don't see it like that", or any of my time! Its better to steer conversation elsewhere. Its better for this to be taking up less of their thought and talk time, and its certainly better for it to be taking up less of mine.
De-radicalizing people, i think is better achieved by getting them to think about some other damn things, engaging just hardens still further
(not saying your friend is or isnt radicalized, but when people talk and it sounds like their repeating the words of someone else, well)
― anvil, Monday, 14 May 2018 07:44 (two years ago) link
I'm not a good enough person to try to save anyone, I write off people who go beyond dipping their toes in the waters of Peterson/Shapiro/et al.. I struggle to be comfortably social with even 'mainstream' Republicans these days, the American conservative worldview is so aggressively reactionary and hateful - your average suburban GOP voter just hasn't progressed to saying the quiet part loud.
― louise ck (milo z), Monday, 14 May 2018 08:06 (two years ago) link
sage stuff from anvil there
― imago, Monday, 14 May 2018 08:32 (two years ago) link
― gneb farts (darraghmac), Monday, 14 May 2018 09:00 (two years ago) link
also youre not his da, short answer
Repeating "I've never seen that" helps, as often it gets a "well, neither have I but" acknowledgement.
― Mark G, Monday, 14 May 2018 12:26 (two years ago) link
why not murder them
― type your stinkin prose off me, ur damned qwerty uiop (wins), Monday, 14 May 2018 12:33 (two years ago) link
― The Beatles' Solo Deaths Poll (Noodle Vague), Monday, 14 May 2018 12:36 (two years ago) link
get over it. people have opinions. furthermore people are more than their media consumption habits and painting somebody as "infected" because of their media choices is some weird dehumanization Othering that shouldnt impact a real life friendship. OP says they are irl friends that hang out w this person once a week. you don't feel comfortable discussing political topics with them in real life, yet you will make a big post on the internet and talk about them with strangers? this passive aggressive signalling through media choices has poisoned YOUR mind as well.
if it's a person you care about irl then talk to them. if you can't stand their social media posts you can hide them. it is like a two click action. if you need everyone of your friends to subscribe to the same media you do then it would seem the friendship is secondary to your social media feed. get over yourself.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 13:30 (two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2018 13:31 (two years ago) link
being into comicsgate is not about "media preferences"
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 14 May 2018 13:33 (two years ago) link
To be honest, the main issue for me isn’t “can I change his mind?” That won’t happen. It’s more, “can I continue being friends with him?” If he stays confined to complaining about “SJWs” ruining the comics industry online, maybe, but if it devolves beyond that? I’m not sure it will, but I can’t tell anymore. It seems like a lot of seemingly sane people’s brains have been broken over the last few years.
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 13:41 (two years ago) link
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 13:43 (two years ago) link
Adam, your post is more than a little fucked. 'Dehumanization' and 'othering' is exactly what this shit is all about. It's informed by very thinly-veiled white supremacy, and that kind of reappropriation of the language of oppression is exactly what they use to paint themselves as victims. 'Victims' of people who just want to see their own perspectives represented in media which is overwhelmingly white and male and hetero. You don't get to champion a viewpoint like that and then brush it off with a 'but I'm a cool guy otherwise'.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 13:44 (two years ago) link
I wasn't even aware of comicsgate before this thread but of course there's a comicsgate, and of course it's in opposition to the exact comics and creators I would've expected. Expected but depressing as hell.
I dunno, man, no one can really tell you whether to remain friends with someone or not. Personally, I couldn't, but then I've never had trouble disconnecting myself from toxic people. The employment of 'SJW' as a pejorative is so pernicious because that particular utterance is several steps removed from what it's actually saying. You pooh-pooh the SJWs, which means you're against the social justice warriors, which tells me that you're against social justice, which in turn suggests you're for social injustice. And if you're a straight white dude, that tells me pretty much everything I need to know.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 13:49 (two years ago) link
Shunning and ostracization are underrated methods of letting people know that their antisocial (in the most literal sense) views/behavior are unacceptable, imo.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 13:51 (two years ago) link
I dunno, they seem pretty popular right now and I don't see them having much of an effect. Not that you need the effect to be clear, I don't think I could remain friends with a comicsgater either.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 14 May 2018 13:55 (two years ago) link
won't somebody save the alt-right from dehumanization and othering lmao
― Spiderman pointing at himself.img (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:00 (two years ago) link
Is comicsgate different than gamergate? I've cut off ties with most of my family because of their abhorrent views. I am not making small talk and sharing my life with them out of duty when they believe and say shitty things about women and other races. I put in my time trying to rationalize or have them try to restrain themselves. Out.
― Yerac, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:03 (two years ago) link
It’s basically Gamergate 2
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:05 (two years ago) link
From what I can tell, anyway
― Yerac, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:05 (two years ago) link
it is absolutely a personal decision to make. personally i have enough problems in my life and i don't need "friends" who are continually spewing toxic bullshit, whether it's openly or on a passive aggressive level. i'm not equivocating here, but i haven't found this to be a specifically right-wing problem. leftists who spend most of their time, in 2018, complaining about how terrible hillary clinton is will get the chopping block just as surely as anybody who uses the term "sjw" pejoratively will.
i've said it before and i'll keep saying it - when i cut people off it's not because i'm judging them as inferior. if anybody is "inferior" it's me, because i haven't got the energy to put up with that sort of thing anymore. i'm totally occupied with my own crazy, and don't have time for anybody else's.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:06 (two years ago) link
^^^ This too. I've had to put space between friends that I like but they spend all day texting me mundane complaints about shit everyone hates.
― Yerac, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:08 (two years ago) link
The Clintons are terrible tbf
― The Beatles' Solo Deaths Poll (Noodle Vague), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:09 (two years ago) link
This thread has really great clusterfuck potential
― imago, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:13 (two years ago) link
completely baffled by adam's post. latebloomer, you have my sympathies, i don't know what exactly i'd do. i'm on a weekly bar trivia team as a device to regularly see a certain cluster of friends and shoot the shit about movies, and i really can't imagine it being an enjoyable or meaningful experience if below the surface was the awareness that one of them is carrying water for alt-right talking points as a way of blowing off steam online or whatever it is. that's not a person i want in my life. but the exact etiquette and approach of making that cut, i don't know. for me personally, if they were really committed to this stuff i couldn't stay friends (and probably, we would have drifted apart long ago for not having much in common). we've spent a lot of time talking about this w/ regard to right-wing family, but friends are a slightly different matter in a lot of ways...if it's not QUITE to that point... hrrrrrm. i imagine staging an intervention would only feed the "libs are out to shut us down" mentality, but is there some viable version of "hey, man, i noticed you've been expressing some intense feelings online, has everything been okay?" or maybe even a way around to discussing his emotional state/life situation without mentioning the political stuff --- you're not his therapist, but if you are his friend it is mayyyyybe conceivable that he's still early in being seduced by this stuff (or susceptible to it being a brief phase that he later looks back on with embarrassment). and that it might be genuinely useful to open up a channel to talk about whatever it is that's leading him to frustration and grievance and blaming-the-sjws. it depends what kind of friendship it is, how close you are, how much cred you have with him versus how much he feels the youtube mini-limbaughs really get him, how much work it's worth to you, all of that stuff.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:15 (two years ago) link
I liked South Park's depiction of Kyle's dad staying up nights to troll online like it's his job while drinking red wine.
― Yerac, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:22 (two years ago) link
If you have a racist friend Now is the time, now is the timePeople have opinions. Get over it.
― type your stinkin prose off me, ur damned qwerty uiop (wins), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:25 (two years ago) link
I mean, wrt this particular sitch, I can hang with people who don't agree with me politically/philosophically/religiously/etc but there are certain uncrossable ideological lines and stanning for white supremacy is one of those. Maybe laying it out in terms of 'disagreement is fine, championing oppression is not' would be helpful?
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:28 (two years ago) link
Argh, this thread made me google comicsgate and now I hate knowing what it is. Tell your friend I blame him for that.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:31 (two years ago) link
pretty sure most of the people i drink with are some kind of right wing but it's not like we spend much time talking about politics except when they accuse me of being a Maoist
― The Beatles' Solo Deaths Poll (Noodle Vague), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:32 (two years ago) link
and i agree with them and tell them they'll be up against the wall first
― The Beatles' Solo Deaths Poll (Noodle Vague), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:33 (two years ago) link
Also, one possible tack to take wrt comics creators in particular is to discuss the reappropriation of Pepe the Frog. Ask him how he would feel about people hijacking his own work to express political opinions completely counter to his own. And how he feels about a professional like Van Sciver in particular doing just that. Even divorced of the political implications, it's hugely disrespectful and unprofessional.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 14:33 (two years ago) link
Oh man, I just read up on comicsgate too. This shit is so unbelievably stupid.
― Yerac, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:52 (two years ago) link
― latebloomer, Monday, 14 May 2018 14:58 (two years ago) link
I think the thing these trolling dipshits don't get is that you don't get to claim "oh, I'm actually a nice guy in person, I'm just trolling" when 100% of your public persona is racist, sexist, garbage
if you genuinely believe the problem is that it's the "wrong people" getting work or acclaim based only on their ethnicity, gender, or views... then spend your time advocating for people you think are talented and help them find an audience
latebloomer, has your friend published anything before? there genuinely are some barriers to entry if you're not established, but I don't think any of them have to do with being a white man. I knew some people who genuinely tried to break into mainstream comics a number of years ago, and none of the reasons they failed to get a strong foothold had anything to do with this comicsgate horseshit.
― mh, Monday, 14 May 2018 15:18 (two years ago) link
Not to get too off track but was a picture of a bunch of young women enjoying milkshakes really a catalyst?
― Nhex, Monday, 14 May 2018 15:44 (two years ago) link
women can't be employed in a coveted field, happy, and pictured together. it just drives dudes completely insane
― mh, Monday, 14 May 2018 15:47 (two years ago) link
I also didn't know about Comicsgate (or I knew, but about the one a few years ago around "hey guys maybe don't put traced porn shots on comic covers") - the article here makes the point that it doesn't even have the figleaf of ethics in games journalism, it's literally just "we fear the rise of women and brown people"
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 14 May 2018 15:47 (two years ago) link
I am not sure if laughing is the right response to idiotic claims, but I snorted when I saw this gem from one of these comicsgate turds
good lord pic.twitter.com/S2aY5Fcnwg— BAKOON (@BAKKOOONN) May 14, 2018
― mh, Monday, 14 May 2018 15:56 (two years ago) link
I think the ongoing collapse of legitimacy of liberal institutions, increasingly anxiety producing omnipresence of (social)media, increasing forgetfulness of 20th century totalitarianisms (and hence the taboos around them) and finally ambient stress from environmental collapse all push ideological identification closer to the Cult mindset than it's ever been since the 40s. Or at the very least the melding of Cult tendencies familiar from the mid-century with political discourse seems like a natural evolution of the form. Hence, you should take your cues from this guy:
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2018 16:06 (two years ago) link
All nerd media needs to morph into a wall-to-wall multicultural pansexual orgy until all the chuds are stricken with massive rage aneurysms, at which time we can return to business as usual.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 16:08 (two years ago) link
xpost Yes, I feel like deprogramming techniques are probably going to be an increasingly-useful tool to have in one's belt, sadly.
― Delightful in Microdoses (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 May 2018 16:09 (two years ago) link
every time I read about amazing innovations like that I think I'm in the wrong job. Maybe I'll retrain as a Subtle Energy Engineer.
― kinder, Thursday, 21 May 2020 17:48 (two weeks ago) link
How is everyone doing with their RW friends and family with all thats going on? Any unexpected softening of stances?
My RW cousin hasn't mentioned it. Its almost certain he will be dispassionately pro-police, and I just can't go there.
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 07:42 (two days ago) link
I haven’t spoken to my mother or sister since before Memorial Day, but my sister (who lives in a suburb outside Hennepin County) shared what she thought was a LOL meme on FB, I called her out in the comments, and all her friends liked it and DMed me to say they’re going to deprogramme her in person after lockdown.
― santa clause four (suzy), Thursday, 4 June 2020 08:23 (two days ago) link
My cousin's two teenagers (and two divorces) have apparently worn away the vestiges of her snake handling Pentecostal upbringing, so it's been a nice surprise to see that brain worms can be killed.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Thursday, 4 June 2020 08:46 (two days ago) link
I never try to talk to my RW relatives about this stuff online; I just call them out on shit they say when it's egregious and I'm there in person to hear it. FWIW all of them support justice for George Floyd in the individual case, but trying to talk to them about systemic police violence against black people, or putting the rioting/unrest into context for them is a fool's errand.
― american primitive stylophone (zchyrs), Thursday, 4 June 2020 12:32 (two days ago) link
I was about to say "I don't have any" when I saw a post from a friend of mine sharing a CANDACE OWENS video of all fucking people, tearing down the Floyd movement. so I wrote out a long response instead of going back to sleep like I planned, and pointed out all of the things wrong with the video (the number of white NRA Trump Voters who liked the video shoulda been the first clue that it's disingenuous bullshit).
he's always been conservative-ish but he's a young Christian male in his 20s, a lot of us grow out of that. but he got a job as a 911 dispatcher and it's clouding his vision a bit. he hasn't posted one thing regarding George Floyd since it happens, just whataboutism and "hey remember this cop that died".
trying to reach this dude (and I know about 7 others will swoop in after I did - it's early in the morning yet). but don't have my hopes up.
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 June 2020 12:42 (two days ago) link
I've thought about doing this on territory closer to where they are. Eg framing it more in terms they might recognize ("do the police have too much power?", "is there any oversight of these guys at all?", "it worries me that a government institution has so much power and weaponry", "they seem so careless, I'm not sure we should reward recurring failures with taxpayer money").
Seeing where they might be any possible inroad at all, but given authoritarian leanings this might be equally fruitless
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 14:50 (two days ago) link
As an aside I was looking at something on a screenshare with my cousin and my mother (nothing to do with any of this). And I realized my cousin was completely unable to take in new information on the screen when it changed (my mother saw in an instant)
Not only that but was almost on edge, panicked, defensive about it (not to a significant degree but it was there). The intake of information was too much, too quick, to the level of being rejected or dismissed, the original information much preferred
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 14:57 (two days ago) link
I used an anecdote about a time when i wrecked my car in a one car accident driving drunk, the cop knew i was drunk, but instead of making me take a field sobriety test and arresting ne, showed compassion and let me off the hook and just made me tow my car home. The cop was black.
I asked him to imagine a role reversal and how he thinks that would have gone.
(I should have been arrested tbrr)
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 June 2020 14:57 (two days ago) link
xp what sort of information do you mean?
― kinder, Thursday, 4 June 2020 15:32 (two days ago) link
It wasn't anything political, it was just some family stuff. The point was that even with apolitical stuff there was still a form of resistance, "I don't want to hear it". This wasn't anything stressful in the slightest, but a struggle to deal with changed or new information. It wasn't that new new information was bad it was that something had changed and it had caused some form of disorientation
I think its part of why he never asks anything, because that could lead to new information rather than affirmation. And why every exchange is, at base, combative
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 15:42 (two days ago) link
My boyfriend has been sharing video after video of cop violence against protestors on Facebook and my conservative mom went from “why are they rioting?” to “fuck the police.”— Jami Miller ✏️📰 (@pixieonmoon) June 4, 2020
point in the comments here thats peoples exodus from facebook has left relatives unguarded
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 16:42 (two days ago) link
Interesting idea although the original allure of Facebook for most was surely not as a way to keep in touch with relatives particularly.
― nashwan, Thursday, 4 June 2020 17:01 (two days ago) link
Anvil: how old is your cousin? I don’t want to diagnose anyone over ilx, but it sounds like some kind of learning disability.
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 4 June 2020 17:22 (two days ago) link
lol maybe they should form watch groups
― j., Thursday, 4 June 2020 17:28 (two days ago) link
That Candace Owens vid is really getting around.
Calling It Now: CRENSHAW/OWENS 2024
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 4 June 2020 18:04 (two days ago) link
Can’t help but parse RW as Richard Wagner every time.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 4 June 2020 18:09 (two days ago) link
That video is so fuckin' infuriating. She says two minutes in that no other race, especially not white people, praises their lowest common denominator. Ignoring how terrible it is to call Floyd a lowest common denominator, HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN AMMON BUNDY OR THE ARMED MILITIAS AT THE COURTHOUSE THREE WEEKS AGO
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 June 2020 18:21 (two days ago) link
I don’t want to diagnose anyone over ilx, but it sounds like some kind of learning disability.
Definitely not a learning disabilities! But someone who holds views very tightly and doesn't do well with change. Part of why anything even perceived as a challenge is met with high levels of defensiveness
― anvil, Thursday, 4 June 2020 20:04 (two days ago) link
I added my trump-loving extended family (well two of them anyway) back on FB with the explicit mission of countering them every time they posted shit that is fake and after a week it already feels like a lost cause. My aunt will post "racism is wrong" one day and follow it with "blacks kill the most blacks! blue lives matter!" shit the next. Uncle disgusted by Obama daring to say the police need meaningful reforms. I wrote a screed that is even-tempered and insightful in response and got nowhere with him, though someone else agreed with me on the reforms I suggested.
― akm, Friday, 5 June 2020 00:47 (yesterday) link
after a week it already feels like a lost cause
That said, this kind of work takes years, assuming you really want to go down that route.
― pomenitul, Friday, 5 June 2020 00:51 (yesterday) link
gotta try incepting them
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 June 2020 00:52 (yesterday) link
AN IDEA IS LIKE A VIRUS
― pomenitul, Friday, 5 June 2020 00:53 (yesterday) link
there were def times in the past four years where my mom (who has decided she didn't like to talk about politics) was trending this way, influenced mainly by the catholic church, but she seems to have gotten straight; she posted Tamika Mallory speaking in NYC two days ago.
― akm, Friday, 5 June 2020 00:53 (yesterday) link
xp to akm - Extracting concessions to reasonableness from your older relatives is probably not going to happen. Old dogs usually keep to their old tricks. But projecting a reasonable voice in their direction may do some unseen good as it moves past your aunt and uncle and into the FBosphere beyond them.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 5 June 2020 00:54 (yesterday) link
True. I'm also spending a fair amount of time just reporting fake news to FB. I've seen at least a few things they've posted disappear.
― akm, Friday, 5 June 2020 00:55 (yesterday) link
fb is effective because of the relentless repetition. Also words can't compete with video. I think posting or sending one video of police brutality only tagged "this is weird" or "they shouldnt step on the little guy" and nothing else is the only way to reach some of these people. if they respond, then something like "i dont know, seems like they got too much power to me". There's enough clips of it happening to white people if you think that might be more effective
― anvil, Friday, 5 June 2020 05:19 (yesterday) link
"don't forget, the government wants to control you and oppress you. they don't just come in suits, they can also come in military grade vehicles with rubber bullets. Don't let that teargas and those helmets fool you, they're not on your side, they're just as dangerous as the man in the suit"
― anvil, Friday, 5 June 2020 05:22 (yesterday) link
and for the TooFarGones "has Gates been arrested yet? suspicious, no? How do we know some of those rubber bullets are bullets at all? they could easily be microchipped vaccines, the police have total power and no oversight, what better method than distributing them to large numbers of people in a way that raises no suspicion whatsoever. the police aren't on your side, they are vaccinating people in plain sight wake up sheeple"
― anvil, Friday, 5 June 2020 05:24 (yesterday) link
A Facebook friend messaged me that Candace Owens video. Considered a lengthy rebuttal, opted for “I already know what Trump mouthpieces have to say.” Should I have done more?
― Album Moods: Rambunctious; Snide (Dan Peterson), Friday, 5 June 2020 14:25 (yesterday) link
― j., Friday, 5 June 2020 15:28 (yesterday) link
Alternatively, just take your cues from this absolute legend:https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
― pomenitul, Friday, 5 June 2020 15:35 (yesterday) link
lol i'm just imaging responding to yr average fb asshole w/ "i will interact with you on this issue but if you find my arguments convincing you must give me your kkk robes"
― Mordy, Friday, 5 June 2020 15:44 (yesterday) link
does the story tell you what he's going to do with all those robes because that's my main question
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:45 (yesterday) link
He sends them to Spain for use during Holy Week. They just go so well with the capirotes.
― pomenitul, Friday, 5 June 2020 15:57 (yesterday) link
― hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:14 (yesterday) link
Publicly responding to an asshole sharing that video could help convince on the fence people. My mother has turned into a shocking FUCK THE POLICE proponent over time.
But in private? They're sharing the vid as a "haha gotcha lib", one word, defriend
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:42 (yesterday) link
I haven’t friended my mom but she sent that CO-vid.
― santa clause four (suzy), Friday, 5 June 2020 17:47 (yesterday) link
yeah, and I wager most people aren't watching the vid, but are sharing it as a "haha see, I dont have to care about BLM/Floyd, this Black lady said it's ok! she also said it's ok to like Trump! win win!"
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 June 2020 17:56 (yesterday) link
Neanderthal, that’s my take as well.
― Album Moods: Rambunctious; Snide (Dan Peterson), Friday, 5 June 2020 18:03 (yesterday) link
I spent a good hour breaking down why the video was terrible (which unfortunately, included watching it) because the person that posted it shared it on his Wall, and it was a shock to see it from him, as he's never seemed like this type of person before, and he's young. he wasn't moved by it, but I had to try.
what's really ugly about it is he's one of the people that is in charge for splicing the virtual singing videos we made for our Breast Cancer fundraiser that is streaming next week. One that has many Black performers who are devastated by the Floyd situation and are likely to be very upset by what he posted. Like a betrayal.
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 June 2020 18:10 (yesterday) link
I’m not watching it either. CO is so dodgy and she’s now married to an aristocratic Brexit asshole, so UK people are familiar with her schtick.
― santa clause four (suzy), Friday, 5 June 2020 18:15 (yesterday) link
I somehow wasn't familiar with her specifically so I had to see who she was. now that i got that out my system, never again
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 June 2020 18:16 (yesterday) link
The guy who sent it to me doesn’t post much on Facebook at all, he’s not a Trump troll - although CO certainly is - so I was very surprised as well. He’s not a close friend, so no loss.
― Album Moods: Rambunctious; Snide (Dan Peterson), Friday, 5 June 2020 18:31 (yesterday) link
IME sending individual videos can be good but invites a familiar #bothsides trap. Look, here is a cop pulling down someone's mask and pepper-spraying him. Here are cops beating a person who's already down. Here's a cop just straight up killing a human being in broad daylight.
Yr right-wingnut goes but #whatabout and cherry-picks: whatabout these cops shot in St. Louis. whatabout these Asian shop owners being terrorized and losing everything. whatabout this antifa dude using an aerosol blowtorch on etc. etc. etc.
It is the trumpian "flood the zone" strategy. You hear enough conflicting information, you shrug and figure you don't know what to believe and you return to your tribal lens. It is, as a wise man once said, "sad."
― i am not throwing away my snot (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 5 June 2020 19:13 (yesterday) link
The thing is not to get into anything protracted, not let yourself be dragged down that path. The first thing is just to show the videos which may or may not have been seen by them before. And just show one video not loads in a row. Say it's disturbing you, say you're frightened of the police. Say rioters will be arrested at least but the police probably not. Show them a video of a white person being beat. Show them whatever you think is most likely to do something. Don't give the answer for them, just say "I don't understand whats happening in this video it makes no sense to me, can you explain".
Agree with them about the rioters. Ask them why they are wasting their time swarming around a person sitting on the ground when there are rioters to catch. What kind of dumb ass pussy avoids arresting rioters to pick on individual people just sitting there. Are they even competent?
At the end of the day someone feels a visceral reaction when 10 police beat someone on the ground, or they don't. If there's a flicker of humanity there...it can come out in time, but it doesn't mean its going to be today. If there isn't, then there isn't
From social media it does seem some eyes are being opened. I don't know how true that is, or how many, but there are protests in Harlan County right now. Harlan County!
― anvil, Friday, 5 June 2020 19:28 (yesterday) link
wow really? protests in harlan county about BLM?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 5 June 2020 20:55 (yesterday) link
A friend right in the middle of it all In Minneapolis has been staying up late on neighborhood watch and going after people from her tiny super white rural high school with long diatribes and breakdowns of their shitty FB posts including the CO video and it’s pretty great to see. Not sure it’s doing anything but she’s got credibility as both a local and as someone who has had her home and family under direct threat for the last week but still supports protests and BLM. At least one person did take down a BS article after getting called on it. Personally I’ve seen a surprising number of people who I know lean conservative, some of whom certainly voted for trump but weren’t vocal about it, posting BLM information, memes and infographics about systemic racism and police brutality, pics of them or their kids at protests and marches, and so on. It’s really shocking because these people were never even remotely political before and it gives me a lot of hope
― joygoat, Saturday, 6 June 2020 00:32 (one hour ago) link
That’s awesome to hear.
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 6 June 2020 01:26 (eighteen minutes ago) link
I have determined my family 1) doesn't believe in systemic racism 2) barely believes in real racism unless it conforms to basic ideas of racism in the 50's and 60's 3) doesn't believe there are any grounds for anyone to protest at all 4) if you protest the status quo you should leave the country. I think I'm giving up.
― akm, Saturday, 6 June 2020 01:38 (six minutes ago) link