is New York City dead?

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NYC seems genuinely out of fashion for the first time in my life, and maybe its history? Williamsburg is a punchline, Manhattan both above and below 14th St is just rich fuxors, seems like everything that used to happen in only NYC or LA now happens in LA or some other ascendant metropolis. I am not particularly worldly or sophisticated or mobile these days so I can't offer much more evidence, this is just my lay observation. What u think?

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:10 (three years ago) link

New York isn't dead.
There are still lots of great things about this city.
The things I value might not be the same things others value, of course.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (three years ago) link

no you're dead

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:13 (three years ago) link

okay

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:16 (three years ago) link

I mean, IDK, I was out in bushwick recently on a saturday night and it still seemed happening and teeming with young artsy cutting edge types brimming with energy. However it's been rough for a good amount of time now as far as being a city that young people without a bankroll or a professional job can live in, and that definitely cuts into the creative energy of the city some. I mean I don't even think the bronx offers the kinds of rents today that could be had 20 years ago in brooklyn.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:18 (three years ago) link

like if you mean "dead" as in "no longer can birth a 'scene' the way it could in the 60s/70s/80s/90s, that might be true just because rents are so high.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:21 (three years ago) link

I think that is what I mean. Although "scene" sounds a little tinny/reductive, scenes kind of matter. A city births a scene which creates stuff that matters.

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:23 (three years ago) link

Is Paris dead? How about London? Those cities are pretty expensive too, and have been for some time. New York is still a place that attracts ambitious young people, including artists, and I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.

o. nate, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:25 (three years ago) link

well yeah, I mean a scene as in the beats or the greenwich village folk scene or disco or no wave or whatever. Like the combination of cheap living and high density and educational and arts institutions and economic activity that allows for a scene that actually produces something of worth. Like I just don't think there are many corners of the city left where a bunch of musicians could live close to one another and work more or less full time on their music and pay rent waiting tables part time or whatever. And to the extent such pockets exist, they're scattered at the edges of the city instead of centralized.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (three years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (three years ago) link

Rising rents making it hard for young people to live there unless they're being bankrolled is basically true for all major international cities now. Even Berlin's getting expensive these days.

Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (three years ago) link

But hey, there are always aspiring artists with trust funds, so the city will never die

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (three years ago) link

i don't know the deal w/rents in NYC but i find it funny when people come out to L.A. from there and rhapsodize about how comparatively inexpensive the rent is here.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (three years ago) link

I don't go out much anymore, so maybe there's some lively cheap shit I'm missing out on.

It's also really hard for some people in late middle age (w/out a LUCRATIVE CAREER) to live here.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (three years ago) link

I'm also old and have a family and work a lot, and I just don't really know what's happening anymore. When we went out in Bushwick, we saw some local DJs/electronic artists in a little club and it was absurdly packed and seemed pretty alive.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:31 (three years ago) link

I guess another thing I've noticed is that galleries tend to show artists from all over the US and world, and I'm guessing that's more true than it used to be. But that's also an internet-erasing-borders thing.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:33 (three years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

― treeship 2, Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:28 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is pretty otm

sleepingbag, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:43 (three years ago) link

it's all about the rust belt, my friend

we eat the cheeses here too

they are artisanal

our cities are the envy of all, their livability is primo

j., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:48 (three years ago) link

Here's how I think about New York, after my last visit there last summer:

New York is good and the only actual large city in America on the metric of everything existing there. Big cities are the ones where there is everything; you can tell Seattle is a small city because there are things that are not here.

New York is bad in that it smells of garbage. In the summer, hot garbage.

If more American cities grow to populations in the millions, New York will be more dead by comparison due declining uniqueness. Is this going to happen? Who knows.

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:52 (three years ago) link

i kinda want to leave, but i have a job i like okay and an unusually fortuitous living situation. there's no real reason for me to be here; i don't partake of the cultural opportunities available

it'll probably be the subway that finally drives me away

mookieproof, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:57 (three years ago) link

NYC: where if you can make it there as a successful artist, you can also have a successful time crowdfunding your medical bills.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:21 (three years ago) link

Telecommuting will finish it off.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:23 (three years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:27 (three years ago) link

Have the media decided where the New Portland is?

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:29 (three years ago) link

There was a Tooze tweet recently, where he showed stats on how professional actors in the USA, vastly outnumber coal miners. I forgot by much, but it was significantly much.

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:30 (three years ago) link

I do hear murmurings about ppl aspiring to move to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Denver, a few others

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:31 (three years ago) link

According to @BLS_gov and @TheEconomist there are 51,200 people employed as coal miners in the US v. 785k in 1920. In 2017 there are more florists, actors and personal fitness instructors than miners. pic.twitter.com/m913tHokI2

— Adam Tooze (@adam_tooze) January 2, 2018



I was misquoting it slightly

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:33 (three years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 6:27 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hear rumblings about Pittsburgh now and then. Also tons of my friends moved to Philly over the years and it did seem to be producing bands at a good clip for a while.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:35 (three years ago) link

And no one talks about how many administrative assistant, secretarial and receptionist jobs were lost in NYC due to automation, because... women, a lot of woc. Breadwinners for their families. Fuck coal miners and their sooty tears.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:37 (three years ago) link

I’m moving back to new york soon bc of my job but it’s not a nice place to live.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:39 (three years ago) link

I still have my apartment in Astoria. But I really don't want to go back. I dread having to deal with the subway.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:41 (three years ago) link

The subway is inexcusably unpleasant

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:44 (three years ago) link

i get more anxious/aggro in nyc in my old age. i don't know what it is. impatient. people bug me more. i think its just a case of the olds. i will always love the city though. in general. i've loved hanging out there my whole life.

it really is me being set in my ways. we stayed in brooklyn one summer with the kids and i seriously didn't want to leave the hotel room. get on a subway to go to a museum in manhattan? kill me now.

scott seward, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (three years ago) link

Everything here is comically more stressful than any other place.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (three years ago) link

I car commute to the suburbs now and it's glorious to not be taking the subway anymore

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (three years ago) link

Why is the ceiling always dripping down there?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:47 (three years ago) link

Second and third tier cities could attract people by just showing how messed up the MTA is in their promo material.

I haven't lived in nyc full time for almost two years now. I miss it, but I really don't miss it. Just the thought of having to take the subway to work gives me anxiety.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:48 (three years ago) link

Part of me really regrets accepting another job here. As a teen my dream was living here but it’s not that fun.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:49 (three years ago) link

NYC misses Yerac and Znarf

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:52 (three years ago) link

Fix the subway and get rid of GOP madness and I am there!

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:55 (three years ago) link

fuck the subway, i drive most places now. and when i do take the subway it's in the middle of the day.
sorry can't do anything about the GOP.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:57 (three years ago) link

Do you have to go in and out of manhattan a lot or no?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:59 (three years ago) link

I remember taking the subway maybe 1-2 times a month when I worked in Williamsburg. It was the best. My tweety truck got sold like 3 years ago.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:00 (three years ago) link

i've honestly not experienced the subway horrors that many have, but i will say that the subway is nearly unusable on nights and weekends

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (three years ago) link

just not enough trains

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (three years ago) link

I want to get myself to love it again.

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (three years ago) link

Not the subway—the city

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (three years ago) link

The last job I had there, I almost had a breakdown every time I took the subway. I would sometimes using the plodding R so I wouldn't have to deal with the insaneness of the 4,5,6 during rush hour. That train really has the worst people to be stuck with in the tunnel.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (three years ago) link

I do drive into the city regularly. Many mornings I drive in and drop my wife off at work and then drive home. It helps that we live near the Manhattan Bridge and her office is in chinatown. We also might drive in and park for any number of special events.

ian, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:06 (three years ago) link

First time I walked into a sweetgreen, I thought, wow they have sabzi yess this is too good to be true, and it was. I think that was also the last time I walked into a sweetgreen.

Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 05:07 (one month ago) link

Google maps shows 3 remaining Afghan Kebab Houses in NYC, their awnings read "Afghan Kebab House #1" , "Afghan Kebab House" and "Afghan Kebab House Floral Park".

But I don't know if Afghan Kebab House #1 is the real Afghan Kebab House #1 or only got promoted to #1 after the closure of other Afghan Kebab Houses.

Adoration of the Mogwai (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 05:52 (one month ago) link

There’s no Afghan kebab house in Woodside. There’s one on Jackson Heights.

My favorite Manhattan lunch factory may be Hummus and Pita Co.

Also Sophie’s Cuban is a dependable chain.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 11:43 (one month ago) link

my brother in law swears by "dig inn" but the name is disqualifying imo.

adam, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 13:49 (one month ago) link

I love any business that uses the ‘in’ —> ‘inn’ construction

chinavision!, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 13:52 (one month ago) link

i like the double pun of the classic "dew drop inn" but the word "dig" isn't something i want adjacent to my office drone lunch bowl

adam, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 13:57 (one month ago) link

It’s great but it’s rebranded. It’s now just Dig. Somebody agreed with you.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 14:01 (one month ago) link

if they agreed with me it would just be "inn"

top union square lunch slop stop is rainbow falafel though it is instant heartburn agony

adam, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 14:33 (one month ago) link

I was once staying in a fancy hotel in NYC on someone else's time and I got Halal Guys and ate it in my expensive hotel room and felt a frisson

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 14:39 (one month ago) link

Blue Afghan House No. 3

Working in the POLL Mine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 15:08 (one month ago) link

dig inn/dig is definitely adequate lunch fare, beats chipotle or five guys or whatever. feels ok to be eating a meat and couple of veggies. probably oversalted but otherwise good enough. amazing what you can accomplish in business by just taking "picadilly cafeteria" and making it all upscale and designy.

Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 15:16 (one month ago) link

The thing is, it's office lunches/eating at your desk that's soul sucking. These bowl places try to improve the situation by bringing a bit of dignity and serving something resembling real food. They can't overcome the situation, but it's not their fault.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 15:19 (one month ago) link

fair point!

Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 16:00 (one month ago) link

would love a union square picadilly

the great innovation is the online ordering bit. sweetgreen is so much sweeter when you just walk in grab your shit and leave. truly do not understand waiting on line at these places

adam, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 16:02 (one month ago) link

I agree eating at your desk makes it very difficult to really savor a meal. Also, midtown around Bryant Park is pretty good, but if you get too close to Central Park, it becomes kind of a dead zone. I thought I'd tried Cava but I realized I was confusing it with Naya, which is a similar concept.

o. nate, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 18:46 (one month ago) link

is maoz still going?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 19:04 (one month ago) link

Last I knew, there was maybe one left, over by Port Authority.

o. nate, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 19:43 (one month ago) link

Watching Serge Gainsbourg made me have a Coconuts flashback.

Working in the POLL Mine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 19:50 (one month ago) link

is maoz still going?

I think the one in union square is still there. See also ‘taim’ which has a couple locations around town. Good stuff

ncxkd, Sunday, 23 May 2021 23:48 (three weeks ago) link

No, maoz is gone. Also, it was gross.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Monday, 24 May 2021 03:00 (three weeks ago) link

I think the food court at the Roosevelt Feild Mall in Long Island might still have a Maoz, but i haven't been there in years.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Monday, 24 May 2021 03:01 (three weeks ago) link

Also there's a dig inn down the street from me and you can smell the rancid oil half a block away.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Monday, 24 May 2021 03:06 (three weeks ago) link

dig inn is too oily, i agree.

treeship., Monday, 24 May 2021 03:36 (three weeks ago) link

sweetgreen is good if you want to spend your whole paycheck on lunch. i no longer live that life though i am a suburban guy but there was a time.

treeship., Monday, 24 May 2021 03:36 (three weeks ago) link

I never actually tried sweetgreen, I was so disappointed to find their "sabzi" isn't actually sabzi khordan that i walked out in disgust, never to return.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Monday, 24 May 2021 03:44 (three weeks ago) link

I can't imagine that Maoz's concept of "build your own falafel from a salad bar" would translate well to the age of Covid.

o. nate, Monday, 24 May 2021 13:30 (three weeks ago) link

was out in Manhattan on a Saturday night in well over a year. such a wild vibe out there atm! it's a trip

(•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, 24 May 2021 13:37 (three weeks ago) link

same here, it was really something

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 24 May 2021 13:39 (three weeks ago) link

andrew yang will be america’s first-ever NPC mayor. as his campaign director my job mostly involves crawling through ventilation ducts and disabling security turrets. he pays me in smoke grenades https://t.co/kB2Ia578NA

— Jon Bois (@jon_bois) May 24, 2021

the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Monday, 24 May 2021 18:15 (three weeks ago) link

So glad movie theaters are back ❤️ pic.twitter.com/N300NKmQmT

— Lebbertoxd (@InsaneLetterbox) May 29, 2021

Draymond is "Mr Dumpy" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 31 May 2021 20:04 (two weeks ago) link

so there is a curfew at Washington Square now and the fucking riot geared nypd just go in and start beating people after 10:00? sounds cool

(•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, 7 June 2021 15:53 (one week ago) link

Also Union Square and Tompkins Square Park.

Notes on Scampo (tokyo rosemary), Monday, 7 June 2021 16:12 (one week ago) link

it's fucked

police only do this when they are VERY stressed and underfunded! please don't post videos of them doing it :(

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 03:26 (one week ago) link

“The park has turned into a nightmare for those of us with kids,” said local resident Maria Rose. “There's constant drugs, constant nudity. There's sexual acts here all the time. The trash in the mornings has become really obscene and it's really not a place for kids anymore, let alone adults.”

Since when??? I thought all the fun stuff stopped decades ago tbh

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 05:06 (one week ago) link

Lol @ "really not a place for kids anymore"

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 05:07 (one week ago) link

The drugs, nudity, sexual acts, trash and obscenity getting to be a little to much for even the youngest of kids

Guessing obscene trash = used condoms but she could also be referring to drug-related waste i suppose

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 08:15 (one week ago) link

local residents are just cops who don’t get paid for it

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 13:00 (one week ago) link

It’s about to be summer is a city where people live in overpriced closets and bars are open till 4:00 but you can’t sit in a park after 10:00? Mayor’s office is deferring to the NYPD on this matter. How the fuck can the police decide on public park curfew with no input from elected officials. Some bullshit

(•̪●) (carne asada), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 15:06 (one week ago) link

I don't think I've been to Washington Square Park on a Friday or Saturday night since maybe high school, but Bloomberg had a clear vendetta against that site in particular and there was a protracted effort to restrict access to the park, especially to skateboarders and people hanging around the fountain.

I had thought this effort was more or less successful in killing off the park once and for all. Guess not.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:22 (one week ago) link

Regardless, the idea that it's supposed to be a kid friendly neighborhood park is hilarious.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:26 (one week ago) link

At the center of a nightlife destination popular with New Yorkers who don't live in the immediate area, suburbanites and tourists, NYU etc. Kids coming in from Long Island and New Jersey to buy their bongs.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:29 (one week ago) link

Granted there are some ridiculous luxury buildings on the perimiter of the park, like One Fifth Avenue (the "Levandusky" co-op), but still.

Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:32 (one week ago) link

i'm gonna be a single-issue acab voter in the mayoral primary i am sick of this nonsense

the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:44 (one week ago) link

That plus charter school support is why not to rank Adams or Yang anywhere on the ballot. And I'm not too happy about K Garcia either.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:50 (one week ago) link

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Fauna Sukkot (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 13 June 2021 02:50 (six days ago) link

Well written

calstars, Sunday, 13 June 2021 12:06 (six days ago) link

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There was more of this but I couldn't make it past "the ultimate cooling experience".

Can't tell if the guy is clowining.

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