is New York City dead?

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NYC seems genuinely out of fashion for the first time in my life, and maybe its history? Williamsburg is a punchline, Manhattan both above and below 14th St is just rich fuxors, seems like everything that used to happen in only NYC or LA now happens in LA or some other ascendant metropolis. I am not particularly worldly or sophisticated or mobile these days so I can't offer much more evidence, this is just my lay observation. What u think?

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:10 (six years ago) link

New York isn't dead.
There are still lots of great things about this city.
The things I value might not be the same things others value, of course.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link

no you're dead

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:13 (six years ago) link

okay

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:16 (six years ago) link

I mean, IDK, I was out in bushwick recently on a saturday night and it still seemed happening and teeming with young artsy cutting edge types brimming with energy. However it's been rough for a good amount of time now as far as being a city that young people without a bankroll or a professional job can live in, and that definitely cuts into the creative energy of the city some. I mean I don't even think the bronx offers the kinds of rents today that could be had 20 years ago in brooklyn.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:18 (six years ago) link

like if you mean "dead" as in "no longer can birth a 'scene' the way it could in the 60s/70s/80s/90s, that might be true just because rents are so high.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link

I think that is what I mean. Although "scene" sounds a little tinny/reductive, scenes kind of matter. A city births a scene which creates stuff that matters.

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:23 (six years ago) link

Is Paris dead? How about London? Those cities are pretty expensive too, and have been for some time. New York is still a place that attracts ambitious young people, including artists, and I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.

o. nate, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:25 (six years ago) link

well yeah, I mean a scene as in the beats or the greenwich village folk scene or disco or no wave or whatever. Like the combination of cheap living and high density and educational and arts institutions and economic activity that allows for a scene that actually produces something of worth. Like I just don't think there are many corners of the city left where a bunch of musicians could live close to one another and work more or less full time on their music and pay rent waiting tables part time or whatever. And to the extent such pockets exist, they're scattered at the edges of the city instead of centralized.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (six years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (six years ago) link

Rising rents making it hard for young people to live there unless they're being bankrolled is basically true for all major international cities now. Even Berlin's getting expensive these days.

Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link

But hey, there are always aspiring artists with trust funds, so the city will never die

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link

i don't know the deal w/rents in NYC but i find it funny when people come out to L.A. from there and rhapsodize about how comparatively inexpensive the rent is here.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (six years ago) link

I don't go out much anymore, so maybe there's some lively cheap shit I'm missing out on.

It's also really hard for some people in late middle age (w/out a LUCRATIVE CAREER) to live here.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (six years ago) link

I'm also old and have a family and work a lot, and I just don't really know what's happening anymore. When we went out in Bushwick, we saw some local DJs/electronic artists in a little club and it was absurdly packed and seemed pretty alive.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:31 (six years ago) link

I guess another thing I've noticed is that galleries tend to show artists from all over the US and world, and I'm guessing that's more true than it used to be. But that's also an internet-erasing-borders thing.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:33 (six years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

― treeship 2, Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:28 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is pretty otm

sleepingbag, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:43 (six years ago) link

it's all about the rust belt, my friend

we eat the cheeses here too

they are artisanal

our cities are the envy of all, their livability is primo

j., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link

Here's how I think about New York, after my last visit there last summer:

New York is good and the only actual large city in America on the metric of everything existing there. Big cities are the ones where there is everything; you can tell Seattle is a small city because there are things that are not here.

New York is bad in that it smells of garbage. In the summer, hot garbage.

If more American cities grow to populations in the millions, New York will be more dead by comparison due declining uniqueness. Is this going to happen? Who knows.

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:52 (six years ago) link

i kinda want to leave, but i have a job i like okay and an unusually fortuitous living situation. there's no real reason for me to be here; i don't partake of the cultural opportunities available

it'll probably be the subway that finally drives me away

mookieproof, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:57 (six years ago) link

NYC: where if you can make it there as a successful artist, you can also have a successful time crowdfunding your medical bills.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link

Telecommuting will finish it off.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:23 (six years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:27 (six years ago) link

Have the media decided where the New Portland is?

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:29 (six years ago) link

There was a Tooze tweet recently, where he showed stats on how professional actors in the USA, vastly outnumber coal miners. I forgot by much, but it was significantly much.

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:30 (six years ago) link

I do hear murmurings about ppl aspiring to move to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Denver, a few others

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:31 (six years ago) link

According to @BLS_gov and @TheEconomist there are 51,200 people employed as coal miners in the US v. 785k in 1920. In 2017 there are more florists, actors and personal fitness instructors than miners. pic.twitter.com/m913tHokI2

— Adam Tooze (@adam_tooze) January 2, 2018



I was misquoting it slightly

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:33 (six years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 6:27 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hear rumblings about Pittsburgh now and then. Also tons of my friends moved to Philly over the years and it did seem to be producing bands at a good clip for a while.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:35 (six years ago) link

And no one talks about how many administrative assistant, secretarial and receptionist jobs were lost in NYC due to automation, because... women, a lot of woc. Breadwinners for their families. Fuck coal miners and their sooty tears.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:37 (six years ago) link

I’m moving back to new york soon bc of my job but it’s not a nice place to live.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:39 (six years ago) link

I still have my apartment in Astoria. But I really don't want to go back. I dread having to deal with the subway.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:41 (six years ago) link

The subway is inexcusably unpleasant

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:44 (six years ago) link

i get more anxious/aggro in nyc in my old age. i don't know what it is. impatient. people bug me more. i think its just a case of the olds. i will always love the city though. in general. i've loved hanging out there my whole life.

it really is me being set in my ways. we stayed in brooklyn one summer with the kids and i seriously didn't want to leave the hotel room. get on a subway to go to a museum in manhattan? kill me now.

scott seward, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (six years ago) link

Everything here is comically more stressful than any other place.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (six years ago) link

I car commute to the suburbs now and it's glorious to not be taking the subway anymore

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (six years ago) link

Why is the ceiling always dripping down there?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:47 (six years ago) link

Second and third tier cities could attract people by just showing how messed up the MTA is in their promo material.

I haven't lived in nyc full time for almost two years now. I miss it, but I really don't miss it. Just the thought of having to take the subway to work gives me anxiety.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:48 (six years ago) link

Part of me really regrets accepting another job here. As a teen my dream was living here but it’s not that fun.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:49 (six years ago) link

NYC misses Yerac and Znarf

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:52 (six years ago) link

Fix the subway and get rid of GOP madness and I am there!

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:55 (six years ago) link

fuck the subway, i drive most places now. and when i do take the subway it's in the middle of the day.
sorry can't do anything about the GOP.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:57 (six years ago) link

Do you have to go in and out of manhattan a lot or no?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:59 (six years ago) link

I remember taking the subway maybe 1-2 times a month when I worked in Williamsburg. It was the best. My tweety truck got sold like 3 years ago.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:00 (six years ago) link

i've honestly not experienced the subway horrors that many have, but i will say that the subway is nearly unusable on nights and weekends

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link

just not enough trains

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link

I want to get myself to love it again.

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (six years ago) link

Not the subway—the city

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (six years ago) link

The last job I had there, I almost had a breakdown every time I took the subway. I would sometimes using the plodding R so I wouldn't have to deal with the insaneness of the 4,5,6 during rush hour. That train really has the worst people to be stuck with in the tunnel.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (six years ago) link

I do drive into the city regularly. Many mornings I drive in and drop my wife off at work and then drive home. It helps that we live near the Manhattan Bridge and her office is in chinatown. We also might drive in and park for any number of special events.

ian, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:06 (six years ago) link

This mayor is a fucking disgrace

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 1 May 2024 21:55 (one month ago) link

You should’ve voted for the cat guy

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Wednesday, 1 May 2024 21:59 (one month ago) link

5 boro bike tour tomorrow! Aka citizens play frogger on a speed mod just trying to cross the street

calstars, Saturday, 4 May 2024 16:23 (one month ago) link

Long Play lineup today is crazy. Among other things: William Parker and Cooper Moore, Sam Prekop and John McEntire, Hu Vibrational, claire rousay, Kate NV, Chicago Underground Duo, The Soft Pink Truth, Laurel Halo presents Atlas Live w/ Leila Bordreuil, Steve Reich Music for 18 Musicians, Eileen Myles, Steve Gunn and Ryan Sawyer Trio, Deerhoof

bulb after bulb, Sunday, 5 May 2024 13:39 (one month ago) link

Too much I feel like yesterday was too light? And now, lots of conflicts

Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 May 2024 14:58 (one month ago) link

Killed my first lantern fly of the year. Little fucker climbing up my leg

calstars, Thursday, 9 May 2024 16:56 (one month ago) link

Get his ass

two weeks pass...

Memorial Day post - apocalyptic summer no one around vibe

calstars, Sunday, 26 May 2024 17:53 (two weeks ago) link

*post-apocalypitc

calstars, Sunday, 26 May 2024 17:54 (two weeks ago) link

children at the beach instead of the bars

mookieproof, Sunday, 26 May 2024 19:25 (two weeks ago) link

I’d bet on Rockaway breaking an attendance record

calstars, Sunday, 26 May 2024 19:27 (two weeks ago) link

CP is pretty chill

What

calstars, Sunday, 26 May 2024 20:33 (two weeks ago) link

just caught a bit of a good Yiddish Dead cover band in Crown Heights

bulb after bulb, Sunday, 26 May 2024 21:21 (two weeks ago) link

Went to the air line diner by lga with the fam, just trying to recapture some of that goodfellas magic. Had a blt. Famous neon sign offers beer and parking, will take them up on that next time

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:23 (one week ago) link

NY will never die and I would kill to go to a diner in queens rn. What did you get??

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:31 (one week ago) link

A mf’in BLT! They also had fresh squeezed navel orange juice in mason jars

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:42 (one week ago) link

lol mason jars

I am a vegetarian but I love BLTS and make veggie ones every couple months. Good choice.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:43 (one week ago) link

Was trying to think of when I was last at LaGuardia. Think 2006 flying from there to Vegas for my dad's 60th.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:44 (one week ago) link

After many many years of horror followed by massive renovations, LGA is actually a really nice airport finally.

dan selzer, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:46 (one week ago) link

Waiter looked like a deBarge cousin

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:46 (one week ago) link

The most goodfellas diner is the one where that zoom dolly shot was filmed and it’s in maspeth and I’d drive by it every weekend in my way from woodside to bushwick. They finally renamed it “goodfellas diner”. Then it burned down. It’s still there but boarded up.

dan selzer, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:47 (one week ago) link

Oh, and cash only. There’s an ATM by the restrooms

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:47 (one week ago) link

1) I heard that about LGA! I'm sure I'll be there again at some point

2) God, diners are just the best. I miss them a lot. What a fantastically weird phenomenon they are and I'm talking about the NY tri-state area mostly greek owned variety. There's nothing like it.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:50 (one week ago) link

And it's hard to explain. There are a lot of old train car diners in NE which are also great and when I lived in Boston I made a pint to seek them out but still - totally different.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:51 (one week ago) link

Diners vs coffee shops fite

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:51 (one week ago) link

I was trying to explain the difference to my wife and said something like diners are stand alone facilities and coffee shops are in buildings

calstars, Saturday, 1 June 2024 21:53 (one week ago) link

Jesus I don't know how long it's been but I forgot so many of the people that are in this were in it!

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 22:08 (one week ago) link

Crazy goldfish roommate guy from friends!

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 22:08 (one week ago) link

Joey Lauren Adams.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 22:08 (one week ago) link

Omg wrong thread. Whoops.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Saturday, 1 June 2024 22:10 (one week ago) link

I buy that.

There are some sorta diners near me. There's a place called Pete's Grill that I've never been too despite living nearby. Alpha Donuts was a famous greasy spoon doughnut place though they stopped making their own donuts years before they moved. They had the curved counter seating with stools and everything. I regret to my very core not buying it and opening my own diner/donut shop.

Georgia Peach is a famous diner on Queens Blvd that I went to once and wasn't so impressed. Across the street was another called Pop Diner or Nevada Diner that Georgia moved into.

I'm from NJ so most NYC diners don't quite cut it.

The LGA adjacent Airline Diner, which is actually Jackson Hole now, is fun. Took my daughter on her 6th birthday for her first diner experience and pancakes for dinner and jukeboxes on every table and we put on Rockaway Beach by the Ramones. Food was ok.

There's some diners in Astoria that are pretty famous. Bel Aire and Neptune.

Kellogs Diner in williamsburg was the absolute worst, can't believe it lasted as long as it did. Drove by last night and it's been shuttered for a while.

I do have fond memories of places like Bendix Diner. There's a whole ILX thread for places like that:
Redd's Roster of Restaurants of the Old Weird New York

I used to love getting omelettes at diners after DJ gigs. When Odessa was 24 hours. Back in brooklyn there were 2 24 hour diners. One on the corner of Smith and Atlantic that was great and really expensive, and one on the corner of 3rd ave and atlantic which was terrible.

There's a chain (of 2) diners called Grand Canyon, one in Park Slope I think and one in Brooklyn Heights. used to love their burgers.

dan selzer, Saturday, 1 June 2024 22:17 (one week ago) link

I had 4am french fries at Kellogg's so many times. Their burger was a microwaved puck of meat-flavored roughage. NJ diners are where it's at.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Saturday, 1 June 2024 23:04 (one week ago) link

I would be so down for an ILX NYC diner meet. Although we would never agree on a venue.

Position Position, Saturday, 1 June 2024 23:54 (one week ago) link

I'd do it! Dan can pick imo.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Saturday, 1 June 2024 23:55 (one week ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/8wGkOKq.jpeg

calstars, Sunday, 2 June 2024 00:12 (one week ago) link

That place has been The Jackson Hole... what, at least 30 years? i'm surprised it was called something else.
There was a Jackson Hole on the upper west side too. I think 80-something and Columbus. Omnivore friends swore by it but the one time i ate there the grilled cheese was horrifying, with half frozen broccoli or something.

"diners are stand alone facilities and coffee shops are in buildings"

None of the "diners" in my area seem to be aware of this

"I'm from NJ"

wait whaaat

Deflatormouse, Sunday, 2 June 2024 01:17 (one week ago) link

the same omnivore friends prefer Cherry Valley for their pre-departure meals, this is a club i will never be part of

Deflatormouse, Sunday, 2 June 2024 01:21 (one week ago) link

https://abc7ny.com/post/congestion-pricing-nyc-kathy-hochul-start-delay/14912968/

lol, lmao. who could have seen this coming

, Wednesday, 5 June 2024 16:42 (one week ago) link

Stupid fucking cow

ban all private cars

calstars, Wednesday, 5 June 2024 18:53 (one week ago) link

I'm from NJ so most NYC diners don't quite cut it.

Best diner I've ever been to was in Bayonne.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, 6 June 2024 09:14 (one week ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/A6J2a3T.jpeg
Just some of the attendees of the young lantern fly convention in my backyard

calstars, Thursday, 6 June 2024 16:44 (one week ago) link

The MTA has already invested tens of millions of dollars installing cameras, sensors, license plate readers and other equipment on city roadways in anticipation of the plan's launch. The fee was expected to provide an annual cash infusion of around $1 billion for subway and bus systems that carry some 4 million riders daily.

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 6 June 2024 23:43 (one week ago) link

ohhhh lord 2pac big please talk to this hochul cause they killing congestion pricing they taking the pain and struggle of straphanging the only thing we coulda express our minds and pain. and these suckers took it and made it look like garbage thats why we get judge so much cause these shit dont be making sence

mookieproof, Friday, 7 June 2024 08:09 (one week ago) link

Here's the full diner exchange at the end of the press conference, rush transcript from me pic.twitter.com/VlerGrr4aB

— Christopher Robbins (@ChristRobbins) June 8, 2024

real americans drive from New Jersey to Manhattan to go to a diner

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Saturday, 8 June 2024 02:48 (six days ago) link

F yeah
Jersey apologists get your own thread

calstars, Saturday, 8 June 2024 02:57 (six days ago) link

lol I used to FW Kellogg's all the time, I feel like there were definitely worse- like Tom's.

encino morricone (majorairbro), Saturday, 8 June 2024 03:36 (six days ago) link

Going to film forum this weekend, haven’t been there in a minute

calstars, Wednesday, 12 June 2024 21:35 (two days ago) link

If you mean not in a few years, they have new seats now. I like their general configuration better than the old one.

Josefa, Wednesday, 12 June 2024 21:45 (two days ago) link


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