is New York City dead?

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NYC seems genuinely out of fashion for the first time in my life, and maybe its history? Williamsburg is a punchline, Manhattan both above and below 14th St is just rich fuxors, seems like everything that used to happen in only NYC or LA now happens in LA or some other ascendant metropolis. I am not particularly worldly or sophisticated or mobile these days so I can't offer much more evidence, this is just my lay observation. What u think?

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:10 (two years ago) link

New York isn't dead.
There are still lots of great things about this city.
The things I value might not be the same things others value, of course.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (two years ago) link

no you're dead

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:13 (two years ago) link

okay

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:16 (two years ago) link

I mean, IDK, I was out in bushwick recently on a saturday night and it still seemed happening and teeming with young artsy cutting edge types brimming with energy. However it's been rough for a good amount of time now as far as being a city that young people without a bankroll or a professional job can live in, and that definitely cuts into the creative energy of the city some. I mean I don't even think the bronx offers the kinds of rents today that could be had 20 years ago in brooklyn.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:18 (two years ago) link

like if you mean "dead" as in "no longer can birth a 'scene' the way it could in the 60s/70s/80s/90s, that might be true just because rents are so high.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:21 (two years ago) link

I think that is what I mean. Although "scene" sounds a little tinny/reductive, scenes kind of matter. A city births a scene which creates stuff that matters.

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:23 (two years ago) link

Is Paris dead? How about London? Those cities are pretty expensive too, and have been for some time. New York is still a place that attracts ambitious young people, including artists, and I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.

o. nate, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:25 (two years ago) link

well yeah, I mean a scene as in the beats or the greenwich village folk scene or disco or no wave or whatever. Like the combination of cheap living and high density and educational and arts institutions and economic activity that allows for a scene that actually produces something of worth. Like I just don't think there are many corners of the city left where a bunch of musicians could live close to one another and work more or less full time on their music and pay rent waiting tables part time or whatever. And to the extent such pockets exist, they're scattered at the edges of the city instead of centralized.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (two years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:28 (two years ago) link

Rising rents making it hard for young people to live there unless they're being bankrolled is basically true for all major international cities now. Even Berlin's getting expensive these days.

Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (two years ago) link

But hey, there are always aspiring artists with trust funds, so the city will never die

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:29 (two years ago) link

i don't know the deal w/rents in NYC but i find it funny when people come out to L.A. from there and rhapsodize about how comparatively inexpensive the rent is here.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (two years ago) link

I don't go out much anymore, so maybe there's some lively cheap shit I'm missing out on.

It's also really hard for some people in late middle age (w/out a LUCRATIVE CAREER) to live here.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:30 (two years ago) link

I'm also old and have a family and work a lot, and I just don't really know what's happening anymore. When we went out in Bushwick, we saw some local DJs/electronic artists in a little club and it was absurdly packed and seemed pretty alive.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:31 (two years ago) link

I guess another thing I've noticed is that galleries tend to show artists from all over the US and world, and I'm guessing that's more true than it used to be. But that's also an internet-erasing-borders thing.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:33 (two years ago) link

All cities are dead because culture travels faster through the Internet than it ever could geographically.

― treeship 2, Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:28 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is pretty otm

sleepingbag, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:43 (two years ago) link

it's all about the rust belt, my friend

we eat the cheeses here too

they are artisanal

our cities are the envy of all, their livability is primo

j., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:48 (two years ago) link

Here's how I think about New York, after my last visit there last summer:

New York is good and the only actual large city in America on the metric of everything existing there. Big cities are the ones where there is everything; you can tell Seattle is a small city because there are things that are not here.

New York is bad in that it smells of garbage. In the summer, hot garbage.

If more American cities grow to populations in the millions, New York will be more dead by comparison due declining uniqueness. Is this going to happen? Who knows.

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:52 (two years ago) link

i kinda want to leave, but i have a job i like okay and an unusually fortuitous living situation. there's no real reason for me to be here; i don't partake of the cultural opportunities available

it'll probably be the subway that finally drives me away

mookieproof, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:57 (two years ago) link

NYC: where if you can make it there as a successful artist, you can also have a successful time crowdfunding your medical bills.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:21 (two years ago) link

Telecommuting will finish it off.

omar little, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:23 (two years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:27 (two years ago) link

Have the media decided where the New Portland is?

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:29 (two years ago) link

There was a Tooze tweet recently, where he showed stats on how professional actors in the USA, vastly outnumber coal miners. I forgot by much, but it was significantly much.

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:30 (two years ago) link

I do hear murmurings about ppl aspiring to move to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Denver, a few others

trife's rich padgett (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:31 (two years ago) link

According to @BLS_gov and @TheEconomist there are 51,200 people employed as coal miners in the US v. 785k in 1920. In 2017 there are more florists, actors and personal fitness instructors than miners. pic.twitter.com/m913tHokI2

— Adam Tooze (@adam_tooze) January 2, 2018



I was misquoting it slightly

calzino, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:33 (two years ago) link

Less of a joke, not as dead as San Francisco?

Feels like people have been waiting for a rust belt/flyover city to take over since our traditional metropolises are more 'playground for the rich' than ever but I still don't hear kids looking to move to Columbus or Pittsburgh.

― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 6:27 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hear rumblings about Pittsburgh now and then. Also tons of my friends moved to Philly over the years and it did seem to be producing bands at a good clip for a while.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:35 (two years ago) link

And no one talks about how many administrative assistant, secretarial and receptionist jobs were lost in NYC due to automation, because... women, a lot of woc. Breadwinners for their families. Fuck coal miners and their sooty tears.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:37 (two years ago) link

I’m moving back to new york soon bc of my job but it’s not a nice place to live.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:39 (two years ago) link

I still have my apartment in Astoria. But I really don't want to go back. I dread having to deal with the subway.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:41 (two years ago) link

The subway is inexcusably unpleasant

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:44 (two years ago) link

i get more anxious/aggro in nyc in my old age. i don't know what it is. impatient. people bug me more. i think its just a case of the olds. i will always love the city though. in general. i've loved hanging out there my whole life.

it really is me being set in my ways. we stayed in brooklyn one summer with the kids and i seriously didn't want to leave the hotel room. get on a subway to go to a museum in manhattan? kill me now.

scott seward, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (two years ago) link

Everything here is comically more stressful than any other place.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (two years ago) link

I car commute to the suburbs now and it's glorious to not be taking the subway anymore

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:45 (two years ago) link

Why is the ceiling always dripping down there?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:47 (two years ago) link

Second and third tier cities could attract people by just showing how messed up the MTA is in their promo material.

I haven't lived in nyc full time for almost two years now. I miss it, but I really don't miss it. Just the thought of having to take the subway to work gives me anxiety.

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:48 (two years ago) link

Part of me really regrets accepting another job here. As a teen my dream was living here but it’s not that fun.

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:49 (two years ago) link

NYC misses Yerac and Znarf

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:52 (two years ago) link

Fix the subway and get rid of GOP madness and I am there!

Yerac, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:55 (two years ago) link

fuck the subway, i drive most places now. and when i do take the subway it's in the middle of the day.
sorry can't do anything about the GOP.

ian, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:57 (two years ago) link

Do you have to go in and out of manhattan a lot or no?

treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:59 (two years ago) link

I remember taking the subway maybe 1-2 times a month when I worked in Williamsburg. It was the best. My tweety truck got sold like 3 years ago.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:00 (two years ago) link

i've honestly not experienced the subway horrors that many have, but i will say that the subway is nearly unusable on nights and weekends

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (two years ago) link

just not enough trains

hoooyaaargh it's me satan (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:01 (two years ago) link

I want to get myself to love it again.

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (two years ago) link

Not the subway—the city

treeship 2, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (two years ago) link

The last job I had there, I almost had a breakdown every time I took the subway. I would sometimes using the plodding R so I wouldn't have to deal with the insaneness of the 4,5,6 during rush hour. That train really has the worst people to be stuck with in the tunnel.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:03 (two years ago) link

I do drive into the city regularly. Many mornings I drive in and drop my wife off at work and then drive home. It helps that we live near the Manhattan Bridge and her office is in chinatown. We also might drive in and park for any number of special events.

ian, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:06 (two years ago) link

The crowds at Breakneck Ridge get kind of crazy because it's so close to the train stop and such a nice hike. Probably less so nowadays. Still, go early in the AM or go on a less than nice day.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 January 2021 21:37 (two weeks ago) link

i mean ... that's true? car culture is a poll tax that only people who can afford to live in the most expensive parts of the most expensive cities in america can choose to avoid paying.


And lots of low-income people don’t own cars either.

Boring United Methodist Church (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 7 January 2021 21:48 (two weeks ago) link

i have been running in the middle of the streets lately toward traffic and it definitely ups the adrenaline. hope i don't die! most people give me lots of leeway but every so often there's one crazy who wants to make a point who all but swerves to clip me. haw haw look at that guy running on an empty street so that he doesn't freak people with their kid out by not wearing a mask because he's trying to exercise and still socially distance, think i'll maybe kill him

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Friday, 8 January 2021 02:43 (two weeks ago) link

Great job

Vaccination lines across NYC are moving slowly. The reason: lots of restrictions about who is eligible and a disorganized delivery system. As a result it's often difficult, to schedule enough people at once to justify opening a vial of vaccine. https://t.co/Z0EcmPP1AZ

— Joe Goldstein (@JoeKGoldstein) January 8, 2021

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 8 January 2021 17:01 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/nyregion/andrew-yang-manhattan-apartment-new-york.html

‘“Can you imagine trying to have two kids on virtual school in a two-bedroom apartment, and then trying to do work yourself?” Mr. Yang said in the initial interview.’

This fucking guy

calstars, Tuesday, 12 January 2021 12:25 (one week ago) link

Whoops

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 12 January 2021 13:54 (one week ago) link

see also De Blasio: I Have Too Much 'Going On' to Ride the Subway to Work

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 January 2021 15:14 (one week ago) link

Man, that was boneheaded. Honestly if he had just left out the “can you imagine” part it would have been nowhere near as bad. “We have an autistic son and it was becoming very hard to meet his needs in our space while also working full time.”

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 12 January 2021 15:29 (one week ago) link

Good point.

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 12 January 2021 15:34 (one week ago) link

nobody's doing their best communicating right now and everyone's angry is how i break it down to an extent. this will likely be forgotten in a few days but yang is fighting an uphill battle under the best of circumstances and he ran headlong into an inauspicious beginning.

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 12 January 2021 15:38 (one week ago) link

de blasio lives in an 8 bedroom villa in park slope iirc

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 12 January 2021 15:38 (one week ago) link

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/nyregion/hudson-yards-suicide-vessel.html

The Vessel, the spiraling staircase at Hudson Yards on Manhattan’s Far West Side, was closed to visitors on Tuesday, a day after a 21-year-old man jumped to his death in the third suicide in less than a year.

It was unclear when the 150-foot structure, the vast development’s centerpiece, would reopen to the public. A spokesman for Related Companies, the developer of Hudson Yards, said that the structure was “temporarily closed” and that the firm was consulting with suicide-prevention experts, including psychiatrists, about how to limit the potential for more suicides.

The structure was considered a major tourist draw for Hudson Yards, a $25 billion project that is the largest mixed-use private development in U.S. history. After opening to great fanfare in 2019, the development now faces an uncertain future as a result of the pandemic’s effect on everything from tourism to office work. It has been largely empty for months.

Visitors and critics had raised concerns that the Vessel’s design could pose safety risks. Audrey Wachs, the former associate editor of The Architect’s Newspaper, wrote in a 2016 critique: “As one climbs up Vessel, the railings stay just above waist height all the way up to the structure’s top, but when you build high, folks will jump.”

The community board first contacted Related Companies about taking steps to prevent additional suicides at the structure last year after the first one.

“Because the Vessel’s chest-high barrier is all that separates the platform from the edge, the likelihood of a similar, terribly sad loss of life cannot be ignored,” Mr. Kern, the board chairman, wrote in a letter.

Mr. Kern said on Tuesday that the board continues to believe that the best way to stave off further suicide attempts is to increase the height of the barrier.

“That’s the only thing that’s going to work,” he said.

He added that he understood there was hesitation to alter what is considered a work of art, but that should not be a priority now: “After three suicides, at what point does the artistic vision take a back seat to safety?”

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 05:10 (one week ago) link

wait why are they consulting psychiatrists about a building other people are jumping off

early-Woolf semantic prosody (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 05:15 (one week ago) link

they wanna know how they really feel about it.

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 05:17 (one week ago) link

Sarah Jessica Parker Says NYC is 4th Character for 'Sex and The City' https://t.co/zkyybdOcGA

— TMZ (@TMZ) January 13, 2021

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 19:15 (one week ago) link

the only more annoying co-star than catrall

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 20:19 (one week ago) link

This reminds me of Lars ulrich’s line “I am my own best friend”

calstars, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 20:59 (one week ago) link

who the hell was asking for a SITC reboot in 2021?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 21:06 (one week ago) link

hbo apparently

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 21:13 (one week ago) link

that's like when magazines say the person of the year is YOU or whatever

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 21:26 (one week ago) link

The adoration of SJP has always been completely baffling to me

calstars, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:22 (one week ago) link

Doesn’t she have a shoe store at the South Street Seaport?

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:25 (one week ago) link

You can kind of see it in that Twitter photo.

calstars, Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:39 (one week ago) link

Oh sorry, thanks, didn’t click to see/zing

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 January 2021 22:44 (one week ago) link

hayri atak proposes the striking, sinuous 'sarcostyle tower' for the new york skyline https://t.co/7Ouo0W3yAN pic.twitter.com/gdmW61R4kk

— designboom (@designboom) January 20, 2021



This is some shit right here

calstars, Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:27 (three days ago) link

i just finished nk jemisin's 'the city we became,' in which new york city fights against a lovecraftian menace that attempts to take over the city's buildings and people.

thinking about that for no particular reason.

boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:30 (three days ago) link

i love it

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:40 (three days ago) link

the expanse called, they want their shitty Manhattan skyline back

calstars, Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:41 (three days ago) link

also

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/nyregion/casino-manhattan-nyc.html

calstars, Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:42 (three days ago) link

I loved that book too! I think it taught a lot of ppl about Staten Island lol/sob.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:43 (three days ago) link

the angles...they're wrong!

boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, 21 January 2021 14:45 (three days ago) link

love how much that article struggles to reconcile the fact that the Aqueduct casino already exists with the Times worldview in which a location in Queens, on the A train and closer to Manhattan than JFK, is "downstate"

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 21 January 2021 15:01 (three days ago) link

Rough Trade is closing and "moving"
https://blog.roughtrade.com/new-york-we-are-moving/

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:27 (three days ago) link

^ kind of a perfect sized venue for a show. I saw a sunny day in Glasgow there

calstars, Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:42 (three days ago) link

the only more annoying co-star than catrall

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/excerpts-from-the-sex-and-the-city-revival-in-which-samantha-is-replaced-with-fran-lebowitz

dinnerboat, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:28 (three days ago) link

Oh xpost re: casinos, I think the deal with the Aquaduct casino is it's kind of not a 'real' casino? I.e. only games that can somehow be made to fit with in lottery/games of chance laws can be played there? So it sounds like part of what they were saying is that the license for Aquaduct could also potentially be upgraded to some kind of full license.

chinavision!, Friday, 22 January 2021 15:40 (two days ago) link

Hmm, interesting! If only we had some kind of professional casino intellectual who posted here...

Doctor Casino, Friday, 22 January 2021 16:48 (two days ago) link

lol

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 January 2021 16:49 (two days ago) link

do you actually gamble doc? i dunno the genesis of yer sobriquet

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 January 2021 16:52 (two days ago) link

Me neither.

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 January 2021 16:55 (two days ago) link

But I like the way you worded that, forks.

Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 January 2021 16:55 (two days ago) link

Never play poker against a doctor who's named after a casino

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 22 January 2021 17:21 (two days ago) link

Apologies to the casino doctor!

chinavision!, Friday, 22 January 2021 17:24 (two days ago) link

lol i know nothing about casinos or gambling, i'm just goofin! the name is from a "rehearsal" for a one-off, one-show "band" that spent more time brainstorming names than preparing music. i got into this thing of Doctor _________ names, really liked "Doctor Casino," and when when i used up all my capital keeping us from being called something else, i ended up saving it for my own stop-start musical projects etc. this was all in like 2003 or 2004... now i wish i'd used different aliases for different things but whattayagonnado.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 22 January 2021 19:44 (two days ago) link

(the leading name suggestion was, inexplicably, "The Winkies")

Doctor Casino, Friday, 22 January 2021 19:45 (two days ago) link

dodged a bullet there imo

the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 January 2021 20:21 (two days ago) link


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