The Jordan Peterson Thread

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

I've been musing devoting a thread to this guy for a while but this is motivating me right now. I can't find info on the faculty letter elsewhere but this Peterson quote (verifiable from the embedded video) is something else:

I have absolutely no regrets about going after the postmodern neo-Marxists as hard as I possibly can and I am certainly not done doing so. So, one of the thing that is going to happen, for example, in the next month or so, I have been working with a programmer who has volunteered his services and has already produced this, he has produced a website that enables people to enter text that will then classify the text as postmodern or non-postmodern and so you will be able to enter a course descriptions from universities – the course description, the professor’s name, the discipline, and the university. It will tell you the degree to which the description is postmodern and then you can decide for yourself whether you want to take that and become a social justice warrior, if that is what you think your education should be about, or if you should avoid that like the plague that it truly is … I’d like to knock enrollment in the postmodern disciplines down by 75% over the next five years. I think that I am thinking about it from the perspective of nonviolent warfare, it is that serious to me and that this would be equivalent to cutting off the supply chain. It is like the postmodernists need a continual influx of young impressionable minds in order to continue their propagandistic and society devouring efforts and I am going to do absolutely everything I can to cut that supply chain off at the source.”

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:31 (five months ago) Permalink

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:33 (five months ago) Permalink

Standout features, to start (assuming this is not empty bluster, which is likely):
i) the level of entitlement it would take for a clinical psychology professor to decide that he should be able to decide which courses and programmes offered by his employer and which of his colleagues should survive and which should perish; does tenure do this to you?

ii) He would in fact do this, not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description (half of mine are not even written by me fwiw)

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

xp

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:38 (five months ago) Permalink

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Ugh

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:38 (five months ago) Permalink

postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing

as a budding neo- (or at least contemporary) Marxist I feel I can pretty confidently state: no. He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena, some of which he has completely made up

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:39 (five months ago) Permalink

not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description

he's flattering himself with the word "algorithm", for sure he's just going to come up with a list of offensing keywords and crtl-f

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:41 (five months ago) Permalink

And he throws the ever elusive "skeletons" in there too just to make it clear he has no idea what he's talking about xpost

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:43 (five months ago) Permalink

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

post-marxism is a thing but peterson just means "cultural marxists" or whatever. usually right-wing buzzword nonsense.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:46 (five months ago) Permalink

i mean he uses the phrase "postmodern disciplines", he is just thinking of anything apart from STEM here isn't he?

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:47 (five months ago) Permalink

He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena

I don't think intellectual honesty is the goal he's aiming for.

Scholarship is boring and difficult for most people and not well-rewarded. Plunging into political controversy with all guns blazing and taking the side of reactionary conservatism, otoh, is invigorating, doesn't tax one's intellectual ability, and if you catch the eye of talent-scouts for a billionaire-funded right wing think tank, it can be enriching, too.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:50 (five months ago) Permalink

Re: what he means by "post-modern Neo-Marxism," this Reddit post seems to get at it:

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

Full thread here.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:53 (five months ago) Permalink

Just seeing this title made me retch. Not that we shouldn't talk about him, of course.

pomenitul, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:57 (five months ago) Permalink

I just find it bizarre that he (or people of his ilk) equates "SJWs" (a derisive term for people who are extremely vocal but pretty strictly about issues of representation, mostly in pop-culture stuff) with marxists of any stripe

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:57 (five months ago) Permalink

fwiw, the Athenian, Critias (fl. 5th century B.C.), argued that the gods were the invention of the wealthy and powerful few, solely for the purpose of controlling the masses. So, it's not as if the idea began with Marx.

Ironically, Critias himself was a wealthy reactionary politician from a powerful family, who was the leading man among the Thirty Tryants put in place by the Spartans to rule Athens after the Peloponnesian War. He helped carry out bloody purges of democratic leaders in the city. Probably the kind of guy Jordan would approve of, except by Jordan's definition Critias was practically a neo-Marxist SJW.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 November 2017 20:07 (five months ago) Permalink

I wonder where he locates his own views in relation to postmodernism. They don't seem diametrically opposed. There was an interview where he argued for a pragmatist theory of truth and said that scientific truth is secondary and less important than the pragmatic truth of religion, which has to do with utility/morality/flourishing.

jmm, Friday, 10 November 2017 20:15 (five months ago) Permalink

He argues that his views are rooted in biology and evolution — Darwinism, basically — in contrast to what he identifies as the social constructionism of the postmodernists. Though I'm less comfortable tossing these $5 words around than he is.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 20:27 (five months ago) Permalink

I like when he talks about religion and art, completely uninterested in his pronoun obsession, and his followers are p vile and pathetic for the most part. i do like listening to him speak though, he's entertaining as a pop philosopher. his obsession with postmodernists and marxists is also a little tiresome (i admittedly don't know much about either in depth, to the level where i could confidently call bullshit or not), but the transgender thing is really fuckin grating.

flappy bird, Friday, 10 November 2017 21:38 (five months ago) Permalink

he's a total dipshit

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 21:47 (five months ago) Permalink

I was just having a conversation about this with a coworker. It's a shame he has fallen into this b.s. rabbit hole. I like his lectures on Jung, religious archetypes, and "cultural dna." I find some of his arguments about the value of religious principles convincing—and I'm in no way religious. The biggest Peterson fan I know is an atheist, as I think many of his followers are. But this dude has a major chip on his shoulder about this pronoun issue. He's also clearly miffed from getting torn apart on Sam Harris's podcast. It's a bummer that he's so caught up in this shit, and with no end in sight.

Say what you want about Peterson, Sam Harris, and others of their ilk. I think it's a positive thing that these people are getting some attention. I don't remember any prominent philsophers or psychologists getting semi-mainstream attention before. And even if people are hearing these discussions through a Joe Rogan podcast, that's fine by me.

Benjamin-, Friday, 10 November 2017 21:54 (five months ago) Permalink

He is not getting attention for his scholarly work in psychology.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:04 (five months ago) Permalink

I was a fan of his from his appearances on The Agenda, a local current affairs show. And his Maps of Meaning is an interesting take on religious and mythological archetypes, in the Joseph Campbell and Northrop Frye vein. It's been disturbing to watch him elevated as this figurehead of the alt right, though I think it's also a consequence of the general polarization at the moment — he believes the "pronoun" issue (or specifically the vulnerability of our institutions like schools and the law to the machinations of radical leftists, which he sees as little different from Nazis) is a step on the path to the kind of murderous totalitarianism of the Soviet era.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:07 (five months ago) Permalink

If you mean Steve Paikin's The Agenda on TVO, that has always been good when I've watched it. The debate about gender was a very good and at times illuminating episode imo (although Peterson wasn't the best part of it).

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:13 (five months ago) Permalink

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

Benjamin-, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:23 (five months ago) Permalink

Though he isn't helping his cause by embracing Pepe, focusing his ire exclusively on the left, appearing on alt right media like The Rebel. He was on Fox & Friends this afternoon.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:28 (five months ago) Permalink

It's not lazy, he's embraced that group wholeheartedly. They're the reason 99% of the people who've heard of him have heard of him and they're the reason he can pull in $30k a month with his Patreon.

louise ck (milo z), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:28 (five months ago) Permalink

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

― Benjamin-, Friday, November 10, 2017 2:23 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know arguing with someone like you is a waste of time because you're not ever going to be arguing in good faith, but ...

jordan peterson is directly connected to the rebel, who hosted a crowdfunding campaign for him. he associates with the worst examples of the canadian alt-right, and has intentionally built a profile based on his transphobia which he has monetized.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:30 (five months ago) Permalink

like when you repeatedly appear getting interviewed by people like prison paul, the leader of the proud boys, you are being quite deliberate about who you want to associate with and why

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:33 (five months ago) Permalink

a quick google confirms he was literally on fox and friends today

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:35 (five months ago) Permalink

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

See, the thing is, I'm not actually sure that this is an informed and coherent description of a real intellectual tradition, although, unlike Peterson, I recognize that intellectual history in philosophy and social science is not my area of specialization. (Marxism IS a modern grand narrative, for one thing, while I gather that postmodernism, insofar as I understand it to mean anything, involves some sort of scepticism of grand narratives.) It is more or less what he was saying on Fox and Friends, though, that postmodernism was when Marxism 'turned into' identity politics in the 60s, which seems very, very odd.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 00:46 (five months ago) Permalink

I really like the cultural DNA and semiotics discussion and as a non-religious person I find the religious meta-narrative stuff fascinating. I don't know his past but he seems to have gained an audience beyond his students & academia and is pursuing them and catering to them regardless of their belief system/makeup. he's an opportunist. i'm not gonna give him money but the little pop philosophy clips of his lectures on youtube are fun to listen to as someone that's really into semiotics and grand narratives. his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques. I like that he mentions the Gulag Archipelago and Solzhenitsyn in almost every interview he does.

flappy bird, Saturday, 11 November 2017 01:06 (five months ago) Permalink

his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques.

I haven't read Infinite Jest but it makes me think more of Obama-era Glenn Beck or a million right-wing conspiracy theorists (see the Rich Higgins memo or a bunch of these, in Canada: Worst National Post Columnist).

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 01:20 (five months ago) Permalink

Closer to Chomsky than Glenn Beck.

dinnerboat, Saturday, 11 November 2017 03:46 (five months ago) Permalink

He has a vocabulary, but he's basically a "political correctness sucks, amirite?" troll. Fuck him.

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:38 (five months ago) Permalink

(I try not to make a practice of posting on threads about people I hate/make me mad, but as a Canadian academic, this guy has been an unavoidable nuisance for the last year or so.)

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:45 (five months ago) Permalink

That's where he gets his money, but that's far from all he talks about. To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

flappy bird, Saturday, 11 November 2017 05:18 (five months ago) Permalink

^suggest ban

bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 11 November 2017 12:05 (five months ago) Permalink

Perhaps he has a way to tie all this together and I'm just not aware, but yeah, it's really difficult for me to see "marxist post-modernism" as anything but a paradox.

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 11 November 2017 12:09 (five months ago) Permalink

To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

He is literally talking about using his social media following to go 'as hard as [he] possibly can' after any courses, disciplines, or professors that his computer program judges to be 'postmodern' via a scan of keywords in course descriptions. This isn't about something he said on a tenure review committee.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 14:19 (five months ago) Permalink

ftr, Chomsky never tried to prevent students from being exposed to other ideas.

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 November 2017 18:50 (five months ago) Permalink

ha, that's a good one and i loved the distinction between post-modern neo-marxism and cultural marxism.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 17 November 2017 22:10 (five months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

In the least shocking news ever, Bill Maher is having this asshole on his show next week.

Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Saturday, 14 April 2018 03:16 (one week ago) Permalink

Boring guy nobody pays attention to imo. Maher or Petersen whatever.

everything, Saturday, 14 April 2018 04:24 (one week ago) Permalink

Shit, we already had a thread for this fuck?

There’s been months of bullshit about him on the alt-right thread.

Also, fuck this guy,he’s a despicable idiot grifter and a nihilist at heart. I hope his family abandons him and his funeral is a well-oiled procedure conducted by bureaucrats wearing disposable gloves.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 April 2018 04:51 (one week ago) Permalink

I’m waiting for the revelation that this guy has just been a Christoph Waltz character all along.

Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Monday, 23 April 2018 03:27 (yesterday) Permalink

Bill Maher’s endless piping on about how he’s some arbiter of anti pc is laughable. Luckily Maher is so dumb that most guests can just shut him down

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 14:22 (yesterday) Permalink

oh, come in.. I didn't see you out there... in the dark.

welcome... welcome to Lobster Manor... a respite, or perhaps, a trap? I jape, traveler, I jape...

I think if nothing else you will find the accommodations very... clean.

yes... very clean indeed. pic.twitter.com/FrB3B2Ucq6

— lvl45 CHAOS POTUS who thinks 'the pee won't leak' (@thetomzone) April 22, 2018

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 23 April 2018 14:37 (yesterday) Permalink

should I be surprised that every comment on that video is complaining about the woman on the panel for not shutting up and listening to Jordan Peterson

frogbs, Monday, 23 April 2018 15:44 (yesterday) Permalink

was trying to figure out who he reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAzjJRZ6HA

omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 15:58 (yesterday) Permalink

He’s a little like Kermit the frog vocally.

My buddy tried to show me this clown’s video on the Illuminati and I shut it off in 30 seconds. His lectures are insufferable - somewhat more tolerable on Maher but yeah I couldn’t believe my otherwise intelligent friend likes this fuckhead. Escalated into my friend calling me a dick and my response was “sorry man, can’t go for that “

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 16:38 (yesterday) Permalink

what about the illuminati though??

Evan, Monday, 23 April 2018 16:40 (yesterday) Permalink

Sorry Evan what do you mean? He was talking about the eye of Horus on the bill etc

Just the usual paranoid ravings of a madman

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 16:45 (yesterday) Permalink

ross otm, i can't even see the appeal w/ this guy at all

marcos, Monday, 23 April 2018 16:46 (yesterday) Permalink

"all the lefties are telling you this, that's what the postmodernists do, they are totalitarian! " bla bla bla he is completely unlistenable

marcos, Monday, 23 April 2018 16:47 (yesterday) Permalink

he totally bombed on the Overtime segment. they're all talking about Trump impeachment + everything developing now and JP pipes up "but what will happen to the people that like him/identified with him" ...but in many more words & just confused + stumbling. also Alex Wagner owned him with that line "wow you really know a lot about me for having just met me"

flappy bird, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:23 (yesterday) Permalink

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 23 April 2018 17:38 (yesterday) Permalink

this guy set his minions on me a couple weeks ago:

One activist, Sean Michaels @stgramophone, objects to me & the great & callow cowards at @Metropolisbleu dissociate themselves from @MtPressClub event honoring courageous Saudi dissident Raif Badawi (https://t.co/47ANcuIZSq) @BarbaraRKay @DMillardHaskell @benshapiro @joerogan pic.twitter.com/OKbWiflxQX

— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) April 11, 2018

let me put it this way: for acolytes of a self-help guru, they are not a very pleasant group of people

sean gramophone, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:42 (yesterday) Permalink

ugh this guy just drips self-satisfaction, he's so overly mannered in his poses and countenance, he's just deeply in love with himself. no wonder he appeals to red pill shitheads.

omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:43 (yesterday) Permalink

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

― DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, April 23, 2018 1:38 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right, the way everyone responded to it (m/l "not talking down to people or telling them they're dumb") was otm, but Peterson was essentially just hemming and hawing trying not to say exactly that, "what about their feelings?" which is especially rich after his whole "right to be offended" thing (which is otm).

flappy bird, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:46 (yesterday) Permalink

He's never going to go away, is he

jmm, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:46 (yesterday) Permalink

I mean the way they portrayed him on the show elided all of the worst stuff JP has said. In isolation he came off OK on the show. Would've been nice if they quoted or played clips of what he's actually said about transpeople.

flappy bird, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:47 (yesterday) Permalink

He's never going to go away, is he

I think like a lot of these figures his audience will dwindle to a small amount of true believers (and then continue to shrink) rather soon. He's not canny enough to reinvent himself in order to keep up with the modern attention cycle. Only someone like Trump can do that and he had to become president to do it.

ryan, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:55 (yesterday) Permalink

Thought this was a fairly decent yarn

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:00 (yesterday) Permalink

whoever it was that said "oh, we need to *educate* these people" should read one of the many many NYT articles about how Trump voters still love Trump, despite the fact that he's done fuck all to help them

frogbs, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:00 (yesterday) Permalink

feel like this guy is just the latest version of Camille Paglia or Richard Dawkins or any number of other "controversial" academic media-figures that manages to push people's buttons. Eventually the luster/novelty fades and no one gives a shit anymore.

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:08 (yesterday) Permalink

All these charlatans just stay in their circle. But the idea that he is 'the most influential intellectual' or whatever seems to have come and gone. At the end he has written a popular self-help book.

Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:12 (yesterday) Permalink

just another daddy figure who will disappoint in the end, i figure

omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:13 (yesterday) Permalink

Alas, the odds that Kanye gives him another signal boost in the next little bit are pretty solid

Simon H., Monday, 23 April 2018 18:13 (yesterday) Permalink

Listened to one of his interviews with Joe Rogan a few weeks ago. I like the self-help jibberjabber, but every five minutes it would be punctuated by "...and these postmodern neomarxists on the left want eqwolity of oatcome!" What might be a good self-help author who doesn't have issues?

And can someone explain the postmodernism thing to me? I don't know anything about postmodernist philosophy, but the art has always seemed very nice.

how's life, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:23 (yesterday) Permalink

You want book recommendations, or you want an explanation of the whole 'postmodern marxism ruined western civilization' spiel?

Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:37 (yesterday) Permalink

re: self-help, I hear good things about David Smail's stuff.

Simon H., Monday, 23 April 2018 18:38 (yesterday) Permalink

Fred, book reccos for the self-help stuff. I'm hoping for just a precis on the postmodern boogieman.

how's life, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:40 (yesterday) Permalink

the best 'postmodernism' is so amazing and ethical, i just don't get the kneejerk response.

you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:44 (yesterday) Permalink

any critique of power is so suggestive about all sorts of new possibilities, why are people so fucking scared of that? people suck

you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:47 (yesterday) Permalink

how's life if you want conservative up-its-own-ass self-help without so many explicit problems and a bit more openness from a poet's perspective check out 'iron john'.

you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:50 (yesterday) Permalink

really though everyone needs to read bell hooks

you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:55 (yesterday) Permalink

I've just always taken the 'postmodern marxism' thing to be like this: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mnny/unwrapping-the-conspiracy-theory-that-drives-the-alt-right Though less tainted by literal nazis.

For real postmodernism, I'd say read Lyotard. Short and good. The Postmodern Condition is the classic, that defines the problem as the lack of grand narratives. The Differend is even better, dealing with truth and politics, and Just Gaming is an attempt at defining a new ethics without narratives, based on gaming. 'Just Gaming' Get it?

Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 19:18 (yesterday) Permalink

i'd go with deleuze & guattari, derrida and foucault. there's more juice in a single paragraph written by any of them than anything this peterson shithead could possibly conceive of. i've only read a little but roland barthes is fun. alain badiou for something more contemporary. why are all these jordan peterson types scared so shitless of feminism? at it's best it's some of the most rigorous, bracing truth anyone can read!

i think science and technology studies has a lot of force to push back against the "science is god" people like maher. i.e. bruno latour, "we have never been modern," which is a pretty great title imo

We Have Never Been Modern is a 1991 book by Bruno Latour, originally published in French as Nous n'avons jamais été modernes : Essai d'anthropologie symétrique (English translation: 1993).[1]

The book is an "anthropology of science" that explores the dualistic distinction modernity makes between nature and society. Pre-modern peoples, argues Latour, made no such division. Contemporary matters of public concern such as global warming, the HIV/AIDS pandemic and emerging biotechnologies mix politics, science, popular and specialist discourse to such a degree that a tidy nature/culture dualism is no longer possible. This inconsistency has given rise to post-modern and anti-modern movements. Latour attempts to reconnect the social and natural worlds by arguing that the modernist distinction between nature and culture never existed. He claims we must rework our thinking to conceive of a "Parliament of Things" wherein natural phenomena, social phenomena and the discourse about them are not seen as separate objects to be studied by specialists, but as hybrids made and scrutinized by the public interaction of people, things and concepts.[2][3]

also: david harvey (geography background), who is very readable on space and capital

you bet, nancy (map), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 05:44 (ten hours ago) Permalink

Walker Percy’s Lost in the Cosmos is a fun one.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 05:48 (ten hours ago) Permalink

STS should be taught in high school

rob, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:18 (four hours ago) Permalink

i uh waht

https://i.imgur.com/qCDdu4E.jpg

Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:40 (three hours ago) Permalink

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=jordan%20peterson

how's life, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:43 (three hours ago) Permalink

i thought i'd found the worst manifestation of peterson fandom but you effortlessly beat it, kudos

Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:44 (three hours ago) Permalink

Everyone hustling trying to make those JP bucks.

how's life, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:47 (three hours ago) Permalink

i don't know he seems more milo than dawkins. the alt-right stole a lot from the left, but the thing i'm most gratified about is their tendency to eat their own.

ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:13 (two hours ago) Permalink

there is a very weird and very present vaporwave/alt-right crossover

global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:29 (one hour ago) Permalink

there's also a strange convergence between the "incel" running down people in toronto and this thread

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:47 (one hour ago) Permalink

Shocking, utterly.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:49 (one hour ago) Permalink

i mentioned the ATD mixtapes on the vaporwave thread a few weeks ago.
guess he is trying to pick up some traction give that he ditched the whole uk hip hop thing a few years ago when it was an obvious dead end for him.
other than the fact JP is really not my thing, the main problem is that JPs voice just aint right for vocal cut-up/mixtape action.

mark e, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:53 (thirty-five minutes ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.