The Jordan Peterson Thread

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I've been musing devoting a thread to this guy for a while but this is motivating me right now. I can't find info on the faculty letter elsewhere but this Peterson quote (verifiable from the embedded video) is something else:

I have absolutely no regrets about going after the postmodern neo-Marxists as hard as I possibly can and I am certainly not done doing so. So, one of the thing that is going to happen, for example, in the next month or so, I have been working with a programmer who has volunteered his services and has already produced this, he has produced a website that enables people to enter text that will then classify the text as postmodern or non-postmodern and so you will be able to enter a course descriptions from universities – the course description, the professor’s name, the discipline, and the university. It will tell you the degree to which the description is postmodern and then you can decide for yourself whether you want to take that and become a social justice warrior, if that is what you think your education should be about, or if you should avoid that like the plague that it truly is … I’d like to knock enrollment in the postmodern disciplines down by 75% over the next five years. I think that I am thinking about it from the perspective of nonviolent warfare, it is that serious to me and that this would be equivalent to cutting off the supply chain. It is like the postmodernists need a continual influx of young impressionable minds in order to continue their propagandistic and society devouring efforts and I am going to do absolutely everything I can to cut that supply chain off at the source.”

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:31 (five years ago) link

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:33 (five years ago) link

Standout features, to start (assuming this is not empty bluster, which is likely):
i) the level of entitlement it would take for a clinical psychology professor to decide that he should be able to decide which courses and programmes offered by his employer and which of his colleagues should survive and which should perish; does tenure do this to you?

ii) He would in fact do this, not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description (half of mine are not even written by me fwiw)

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

xp

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:38 (five years ago) link

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Ugh

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:38 (five years ago) link

postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing

as a budding neo- (or at least contemporary) Marxist I feel I can pretty confidently state: no. He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena, some of which he has completely made up

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:39 (five years ago) link

not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description

he's flattering himself with the word "algorithm", for sure he's just going to come up with a list of offensing keywords and crtl-f

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:41 (five years ago) link

And he throws the ever elusive "skeletons" in there too just to make it clear he has no idea what he's talking about xpost

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:43 (five years ago) link

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

post-marxism is a thing but peterson just means "cultural marxists" or whatever. usually right-wing buzzword nonsense.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:46 (five years ago) link

i mean he uses the phrase "postmodern disciplines", he is just thinking of anything apart from STEM here isn't he?

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:47 (five years ago) link

He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena

I don't think intellectual honesty is the goal he's aiming for.

Scholarship is boring and difficult for most people and not well-rewarded. Plunging into political controversy with all guns blazing and taking the side of reactionary conservatism, otoh, is invigorating, doesn't tax one's intellectual ability, and if you catch the eye of talent-scouts for a billionaire-funded right wing think tank, it can be enriching, too.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:50 (five years ago) link

Re: what he means by "post-modern Neo-Marxism," this Reddit post seems to get at it:

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

Full thread here.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:53 (five years ago) link

Just seeing this title made me retch. Not that we shouldn't talk about him, of course.

pomenitul, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:57 (five years ago) link

I just find it bizarre that he (or people of his ilk) equates "SJWs" (a derisive term for people who are extremely vocal but pretty strictly about issues of representation, mostly in pop-culture stuff) with marxists of any stripe

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 19:57 (five years ago) link

fwiw, the Athenian, Critias (fl. 5th century B.C.), argued that the gods were the invention of the wealthy and powerful few, solely for the purpose of controlling the masses. So, it's not as if the idea began with Marx.

Ironically, Critias himself was a wealthy reactionary politician from a powerful family, who was the leading man among the Thirty Tryants put in place by the Spartans to rule Athens after the Peloponnesian War. He helped carry out bloody purges of democratic leaders in the city. Probably the kind of guy Jordan would approve of, except by Jordan's definition Critias was practically a neo-Marxist SJW.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 November 2017 20:07 (five years ago) link

I wonder where he locates his own views in relation to postmodernism. They don't seem diametrically opposed. There was an interview where he argued for a pragmatist theory of truth and said that scientific truth is secondary and less important than the pragmatic truth of religion, which has to do with utility/morality/flourishing.

jmm, Friday, 10 November 2017 20:15 (five years ago) link

He argues that his views are rooted in biology and evolution — Darwinism, basically — in contrast to what he identifies as the social constructionism of the postmodernists. Though I'm less comfortable tossing these $5 words around than he is.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 20:27 (five years ago) link

I like when he talks about religion and art, completely uninterested in his pronoun obsession, and his followers are p vile and pathetic for the most part. i do like listening to him speak though, he's entertaining as a pop philosopher. his obsession with postmodernists and marxists is also a little tiresome (i admittedly don't know much about either in depth, to the level where i could confidently call bullshit or not), but the transgender thing is really fuckin grating.

flappy bird, Friday, 10 November 2017 21:38 (five years ago) link

he's a total dipshit

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 21:47 (five years ago) link

I was just having a conversation about this with a coworker. It's a shame he has fallen into this b.s. rabbit hole. I like his lectures on Jung, religious archetypes, and "cultural dna." I find some of his arguments about the value of religious principles convincing—and I'm in no way religious. The biggest Peterson fan I know is an atheist, as I think many of his followers are. But this dude has a major chip on his shoulder about this pronoun issue. He's also clearly miffed from getting torn apart on Sam Harris's podcast. It's a bummer that he's so caught up in this shit, and with no end in sight.

Say what you want about Peterson, Sam Harris, and others of their ilk. I think it's a positive thing that these people are getting some attention. I don't remember any prominent philsophers or psychologists getting semi-mainstream attention before. And even if people are hearing these discussions through a Joe Rogan podcast, that's fine by me.

Benjamin-, Friday, 10 November 2017 21:54 (five years ago) link

He is not getting attention for his scholarly work in psychology.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:04 (five years ago) link

I was a fan of his from his appearances on The Agenda, a local current affairs show. And his Maps of Meaning is an interesting take on religious and mythological archetypes, in the Joseph Campbell and Northrop Frye vein. It's been disturbing to watch him elevated as this figurehead of the alt right, though I think it's also a consequence of the general polarization at the moment — he believes the "pronoun" issue (or specifically the vulnerability of our institutions like schools and the law to the machinations of radical leftists, which he sees as little different from Nazis) is a step on the path to the kind of murderous totalitarianism of the Soviet era.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:07 (five years ago) link

If you mean Steve Paikin's The Agenda on TVO, that has always been good when I've watched it. The debate about gender was a very good and at times illuminating episode imo (although Peterson wasn't the best part of it).

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:13 (five years ago) link

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

Benjamin-, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:23 (five years ago) link

Though he isn't helping his cause by embracing Pepe, focusing his ire exclusively on the left, appearing on alt right media like The Rebel. He was on Fox & Friends this afternoon.

dinnerboat, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:28 (five years ago) link

It's not lazy, he's embraced that group wholeheartedly. They're the reason 99% of the people who've heard of him have heard of him and they're the reason he can pull in $30k a month with his Patreon.

louise ck (milo z), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:28 (five years ago) link

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

― Benjamin-, Friday, November 10, 2017 2:23 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know arguing with someone like you is a waste of time because you're not ever going to be arguing in good faith, but ...

jordan peterson is directly connected to the rebel, who hosted a crowdfunding campaign for him. he associates with the worst examples of the canadian alt-right, and has intentionally built a profile based on his transphobia which he has monetized.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:30 (five years ago) link

like when you repeatedly appear getting interviewed by people like prison paul, the leader of the proud boys, you are being quite deliberate about who you want to associate with and why

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:33 (five years ago) link

a quick google confirms he was literally on fox and friends today

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:35 (five years ago) link

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

See, the thing is, I'm not actually sure that this is an informed and coherent description of a real intellectual tradition, although, unlike Peterson, I recognize that intellectual history in philosophy and social science is not my area of specialization. (Marxism IS a modern grand narrative, for one thing, while I gather that postmodernism, insofar as I understand it to mean anything, involves some sort of scepticism of grand narratives.) It is more or less what he was saying on Fox and Friends, though, that postmodernism was when Marxism 'turned into' identity politics in the 60s, which seems very, very odd.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 00:46 (five years ago) link

I really like the cultural DNA and semiotics discussion and as a non-religious person I find the religious meta-narrative stuff fascinating. I don't know his past but he seems to have gained an audience beyond his students & academia and is pursuing them and catering to them regardless of their belief system/makeup. he's an opportunist. i'm not gonna give him money but the little pop philosophy clips of his lectures on youtube are fun to listen to as someone that's really into semiotics and grand narratives. his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques. I like that he mentions the Gulag Archipelago and Solzhenitsyn in almost every interview he does.

flappy bird, Saturday, 11 November 2017 01:06 (five years ago) link

his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques.

I haven't read Infinite Jest but it makes me think more of Obama-era Glenn Beck or a million right-wing conspiracy theorists (see the Rich Higgins memo or a bunch of these, in Canada: Worst National Post Columnist).

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 01:20 (five years ago) link

Closer to Chomsky than Glenn Beck.

dinnerboat, Saturday, 11 November 2017 03:46 (five years ago) link

He has a vocabulary, but he's basically a "political correctness sucks, amirite?" troll. Fuck him.

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:38 (five years ago) link

(I try not to make a practice of posting on threads about people I hate/make me mad, but as a Canadian academic, this guy has been an unavoidable nuisance for the last year or so.)

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:45 (five years ago) link

That's where he gets his money, but that's far from all he talks about. To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

flappy bird, Saturday, 11 November 2017 05:18 (five years ago) link

^suggest ban

bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 11 November 2017 12:05 (five years ago) link

Perhaps he has a way to tie all this together and I'm just not aware, but yeah, it's really difficult for me to see "marxist post-modernism" as anything but a paradox.

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 11 November 2017 12:09 (five years ago) link

To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

He is literally talking about using his social media following to go 'as hard as [he] possibly can' after any courses, disciplines, or professors that his computer program judges to be 'postmodern' via a scan of keywords in course descriptions. This isn't about something he said on a tenure review committee.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 November 2017 14:19 (five years ago) link

ftr, Chomsky never tried to prevent students from being exposed to other ideas.

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 November 2017 18:50 (five years ago) link

ha, that's a good one and i loved the distinction between post-modern neo-marxism and cultural marxism.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 17 November 2017 22:10 (five years ago) link

four months pass...

In the least shocking news ever, Bill Maher is having this asshole on his show next week.

Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Saturday, 14 April 2018 03:16 (four years ago) link

Boring guy nobody pays attention to imo. Maher or Petersen whatever.

everything, Saturday, 14 April 2018 04:24 (four years ago) link

Shit, we already had a thread for this fuck?

There’s been months of bullshit about him on the alt-right thread.

Also, fuck this guy,he’s a despicable idiot grifter and a nihilist at heart. I hope his family abandons him and his funeral is a well-oiled procedure conducted by bureaucrats wearing disposable gloves.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 April 2018 04:51 (four years ago) link

I’m waiting for the revelation that this guy has just been a Christoph Waltz character all along.

Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Monday, 23 April 2018 03:27 (four years ago) link

Bill Maher’s endless piping on about how he’s some arbiter of anti pc is laughable. Luckily Maher is so dumb that most guests can just shut him down

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 14:22 (four years ago) link

oh, come in.. I didn't see you out there... in the dark.

welcome... welcome to Lobster Manor... a respite, or perhaps, a trap? I jape, traveler, I jape...

I think if nothing else you will find the accommodations very... clean.

yes... very clean indeed. pic.twitter.com/FrB3B2Ucq6

— lvl45 CHAOS POTUS who thinks 'the pee won't leak' (@thetomzone) April 22, 2018

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 23 April 2018 14:37 (four years ago) link

should I be surprised that every comment on that video is complaining about the woman on the panel for not shutting up and listening to Jordan Peterson

frogbs, Monday, 23 April 2018 15:44 (four years ago) link

was trying to figure out who he reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAzjJRZ6HA

omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 15:58 (four years ago) link

Muslims, clean thine rooms!

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 14 July 2022 15:47 (four months ago) link

Jews, eat a lobster.

dan selzer, Thursday, 14 July 2022 16:08 (four months ago) link

Jordan Peterson invites you to join him pic.twitter.com/2vPLvVRFaP

— very tall bart (@TallBart) July 14, 2022

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 15 July 2022 13:33 (four months ago) link

😂

m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Friday, 15 July 2022 15:09 (four months ago) link

two months pass...

Lol

Look who is at Michaela today! 🥰
@jordanbpetersonpic.twitter.com/nKJFg0OOtG

— Katharine Birbalsingh (@Miss_Snuffy) September 16, 2022

xyzzzz__, Friday, 16 September 2022 12:20 (two months ago) link

good that's she stopped pretending her state-sanctioned child abuse has educational aims

feudal vague (Noodle Vague), Friday, 16 September 2022 12:22 (two months ago) link

just trying to work out what characters these two aging comic-con desperados are supposed to be

calzino, Friday, 16 September 2022 12:45 (two months ago) link

Where JBP goes, comedy is sure to follow

Jordan Peterson was so moved by what he was seeing, as our little year 7s zoomed past shouting, ‘Morning Miss! Morning Sir!’, tears fell. ☺️ https://t.co/jSQjNBJjQ6

— Katharine Birbalsingh (@Miss_Snuffy) September 16, 2022

I tweeted two photos of Jordan Peterson visiting Michaela and someone reported me to the police for hate crime and various others have demanded Ofsted inspect us immediately.

The world has gone mad. 🙄

— Katharine Birbalsingh (@Miss_Snuffy) September 16, 2022

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 16 September 2022 20:36 (two months ago) link

Is this person the U.K.'s answer to Michelle Rhee?

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:14 (two months ago) link

just looked up Michelle Rhee and while not great she doesn't sound anywhere near as despicable as Katharine Birbalsingh.

link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:18 (two months ago) link

"Someone reported me to the police for hate crime" LOL

GTFO.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:19 (two months ago) link

That guy’s always crying at literally anything

barry sito (gyac), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:26 (two months ago) link

Ten points from Spliffenpuff.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:30 (two months ago) link

“Miss Snuffy”

sweating like Cathy *aaaack* (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 16 September 2022 21:56 (two months ago) link

this headline man pic.twitter.com/uAWAw8sKE7

— BORG (@borgposting) September 30, 2022

Karl Malone, Friday, 30 September 2022 21:44 (two months ago) link

So what was this?

four weeks pass...

Book #4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcTH-fEHIE8

formerly abanana (dat), Tuesday, 1 November 2022 02:34 (one month ago) link

It is so flabbergasting that anyone takes life advice from this wreck.

an incomprehensible borefest full of elves (hardcore dilettante), Monday, 14 November 2022 02:37 (two weeks ago) link

“gamify romance”

circa1916, Monday, 14 November 2022 02:39 (two weeks ago) link

there's a lot to take issue with but i'm going to start with the ultimate goal of marriage

call all destroyer, Monday, 14 November 2022 02:47 (two weeks ago) link

make the bed.. more than her. it's how you win!

maf you one two (maffew12), Monday, 14 November 2022 02:52 (two weeks ago) link

Rule #7 for keeping the spark alive: Absence makes the heart grow fonder. e.g. put yourself in a medically induced coma in a Russian rehab facility. She will love you twice as much when you come home.

two weeks pass...

This cunt is in Australia and merrily wading into culture wars - invited to Parliament House by right-wing headbangers, trying (and failing) to influence the result of a state election via amplifying transphobic misinformation, now whining about the widespread practice of acknowledging indigenous custodianship of land. There's probably more but I can't face actually looking at his cursed timeline.

In short, it was a much more pleasant world when threatened little babymen like this guy were deprived of the megaphone of Twitter.

meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Monday, 28 November 2022 23:46 (five days ago) link

His tour is basically the Unfuckable Men of Australia tour

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 00:32 (four days ago) link

No cause too odious

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 16:44 (four days ago) link

not interested in this guy making speeches or tweeting, please update the thread when he puts himself in another coma from malnutrition or whatever even more stupid thing he will do next time.

link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 17:04 (four days ago) link

This seems...not great.

Don't mind me, just leaving this one here for posterity. pic.twitter.com/3XyhszKoWw

— Phrost (@Phrost) November 29, 2022

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 21:03 (four days ago) link

What a despicable asshole

Has climate change denial always been part of his repertoire? Very banal observation but: it's striking how the real grifters in this scene don't really have a coherent politics of any kind

rob, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 21:47 (four days ago) link

Conservatives in no wanting to conserve anything shocker

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 23:41 (four days ago) link

So I'm going to guess that it's the WOKE that is somehow making antisemitism a "moral necessity" right?

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 00:00 (three days ago) link

I have no idea WTF he is talking about in that tweet, and I reckon he does not either.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 00:01 (three days ago) link

But I bet he savored saying it.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 03:13 (three days ago) link

Is he saying someone else says antisemitism is a moral neccesity? Either that or he welcomes hell? I dont get it.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 04:03 (three days ago) link

Yeah, I think he's trying to say "when anti-semitism becomes perceived [e.g. by Kanye] as a moral necessity". I don’t see how the rest makes sense if he’s advocating anti-semitism as a moral necessity.

But whatever, he can defend his dumbass tweet himself

jmm, Wednesday, 30 November 2022 04:13 (three days ago) link

every possible interpretation of that is bad but uh yeah some are a lot worse than others

frogbs, Wednesday, 30 November 2022 04:15 (three days ago) link

it's striking how the real grifters in this scene don't really have a coherent politics of any kind

yeah it was really notable watching him operate in Australia, just this series of scattergun interjections on "controversial" topics - ie those that are gonna get him some attention - i guess this guy's core brand for dumbos is "i am just fearlessly talking common sense", which can be tidily mapped onto whatever shitty prejudice he is spruiking and confers the superficial appearance of some kind of consistency

meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 04:17 (three days ago) link

Yeah, I think he's trying to say "when anti-semitism becomes perceived [e.g. by Kanye] as a moral necessity". I don’t see how the rest makes sense if he’s advocating anti-semitism as a moral necessity.

Yeah I'd say that's the canonical interpretation but I think he's also aware that part of his fanbase will take it differently and willing to play into that while maintaining plausible deniability.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 30 November 2022 10:53 (three days ago) link

I think he is saying that the excesses of liberal society — “wokeness” — have provoked people into antisemitism, in the same way that the “degeneracy” (hitler’s word) of the weimar republic set the stage for nazism. He is saying antisemitism is bad, maybe, but that it isn’t the fault of the antisemites. Liberals made them do it.

treeship., Wednesday, 30 November 2022 12:14 (three days ago) link

It’s almost as bad as being straightforwardly antisemitic honestly. He is playing into the logic of antisemitism.

treeship., Wednesday, 30 November 2022 12:15 (three days ago) link

He's basically saying anti-semitism is the fault of the jews and when hell (i.e. the holocaust or whatever) happens again it will be deserved.

The Bankruptcy of the Planet of the Apes (PBKR), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 13:02 (three days ago) link

His whole thing has been conservative Christianity for quite some time, which usually tends to come along with certain views that have recently been glossed over by US evangelical support for Israel.

after several days on “the milk,” (gyac), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 13:22 (three days ago) link

I’m sure he’d note that he just packed an auditorium in Jerusalem: https://www.timesofisrael.com/jordan-peterson-lightning-rod-of-us-culture-wars-receives-warm-embrace-in-israel/

But yeah, like a lot of Christian conservatives, he probably conflates “support for Israel” with “support for Jews.”

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 13:44 (three days ago) link

i hope he doesn't go the way of kanye. since kanye's comments, there has been an explosion of antisemitism online. things like q anon planted the seeds of this kind of worldview. peterson still has a vast following. people take him seriously.

treeship., Wednesday, 30 November 2022 14:35 (three days ago) link

they shouldn't; he is not a serious thinker.

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 14:41 (three days ago) link

of course they shouldn't, but they do.

treeship., Wednesday, 30 November 2022 14:46 (three days ago) link

xp Definitely not a serious thinker. He's mostly good at clumping various half-baked concepts together into a gobbledygook that sounds good to his legions in the manosphere. He makes them feel like intellectuals.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 15:29 (three days ago) link

I’m sure he’d note that he just packed an auditorium in Jerusalem: https://www.timesofisrael.com/jordan-peterson-lightning-rod-of-us-culture-wars-receives-warm-embrace-in-israel🕸/

But yeah, like a lot of Christian conservatives, he probably conflates “support for Israel” with “support for Jews.”


That’s the exact point I made?

after several days on “the milk,” (gyac), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 15:36 (three days ago) link

Anyone paying attention (ahem) knows exactly what this guy has always been.


I think it must be nice to have these things be this abstract. I wish I didn’t have to think about how someone who draws much of his support from fairly unconcealed misogyny and authoritarian fantasies was so popular with men. There are clearly enough men out there who think women need to be put back in their place and are increasingly vocal about it. You can talk about how the apparently suffocation of political correctness is forcing people into this charlatan’s arms, but that sidesteps some fairly obvious messaging about how the pay gap isn’t real, about how women use rape as a weapon, about how women are taking too many jobs and that’s why you can’t get one, about how women gravitate to rich men and you get nothing. There’s nothing subtle about it.

I think about growing up in Ireland when divorce, abortion and gay marriage were illegal, and how that’s basically his ideal country, and it gives me chills.

― gyac, Monday, 5 November 2018 12:19 (four years ago) link

after several days on “the milk,” (gyac), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 15:40 (three days ago) link

xpost yes, was corroborating your point.

Peterson's affect is sort of fascinating, because he tends to this kind of elegiac tone. Like villains in movies who tell the protagonist what a pity it is that they are going to have to torture and kill them.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 16:50 (three days ago) link


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