WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

have at it, folx

So are we looking forward to this? I'm liking the new-broom approach to the casting/costume, and much as I enjoyed the last series (a lot), the fact that it ended with two incarnations of the Master in a Cybermen origins story that culminated in a surprise appearance from the Hartnell Doctor indicates a freshen up might be in order.

But jesus, Chibnall's previous Doctor Who sits on a spectrum of bland to poor - some of the most unmemorable episodes in recent memory. Or am I being pessimistic?

(cheeky plug: we review Chibnall's Silurian two-parter on the most recent edition of my Doctor Who podcast - http://www.illexplainlater.com/post/166422653503/episode-27-land-of-make-believe - where we discussed some of this stuff...)

v much looking forward to seeing how jodie whittaker plays it, v much apprehensive about everything else

The whole show has been feeling very tired and in need of a new injection of ideas for quite some time now. On the other hand I've never seen Broadchurch and most of the episodes Chibnall had written have felt like mid-series filler so I dunno if he's the guy to provide them.

The incredibly shoddy photoshopped TARDIS behind Whitaker's Mork cosplay in the promo photo sets the tone for exactly the level of quality I expect from ol' Chinballs.

Boring writer doesn't neccessariy mean boring showrunner, I'm hoping.

I am excited the same way I am excited for any new actor who takes on the role of the Doctor. I'm also looking forward to the Doctor-companion interaction and which parts will change and which parts will stay the same. I also enjoyed most of Chibnall's Who stories and think his worst work appeared in the first season of Torchwood.

I did read somewhere that he was planning to have more season-long storylines, which is the opposite direction things should be going in imo. A series of only very loosely connected, straighforward one and two parters each written by a different good writer would do the job fine.

I get that on the one hand, but on the other hand the current Golden Age of Television is really strong on bingeable serialized stories that last the whole season, plus his biggest critical praise came from doing that with Broadchurch.

I think the problem with recent Doctor Who arcs is that they're neither fish nor fowl - an awkward mix of 'arc episodes' and deliberately less important standalones that fails to really build to any sort of dramatic crescendo or are rushed at the final stages. I'd be fine with either 10 completely discrete episodes or a single 10-part story (an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan would suit me very nicely).

I think RTD's first season was the only to really pull off its "arc" - unless you count the Riversong episodes as a single story (and why not - at least "Wedding..." finally gave it a satisfying ending).

S1 barely had an arc, just some flash frames of graffiti shot later on and inserted into episodes months after they'd been written

S5 had a fantastic, coherent, satisfyingly complicated plot arc (only undermined by Rory's prop badge), and the first two Capaldi years together pulled off successful parallel character arcs

TBH I'd be happy to settle for the show being fun again and it hasn't felt like that for ages.

^ x1000000
i may try again now

Maybe I read too many Virgin/BBC novels but I can't point at a single season of the reboot that I would say is anti-fun, including Tennant's first season (which is the only one I haven't seen every episode of despite owning multiple copies of it)

lost me with matt smith, tried again with capaldi and still found it a slog

Can we count the 2008-2010 specials?

xp ulysses you crazy, Matt Smith's first season was the best yet.

i agree, first matt smith season is one of the most classic

I demand much less from Who then all of you. I'm happy if it's marginally entertaining which it consistently is. I don't care for her suspenders, but I like her coat, and I think she'll be an interesting doctor. I'm more concerned with three full time companions; that pushes this too far into an ensemble which makes me wonder if they will let her carry the show or not.

the ONE thing I did grow tired of under Moffatt was the manic pace of every episode though. LIke, 1000 things would happen in some of those smith episodes and they just got impossible to follow. Broadchurch, like it or hate it, has a much more staid pace that I hope he brings to the show.

I look at it as back to basics with the caveat that the show has often struggled to juggle story arcs for the Doctor and three full-time companions (the most notorious example I can remember being "Kinda", where Nyssa spends the entire story napping in the TARDIS and pops up at the end asking "hey, did I miss anything?")

If they do it with Bradley Walsh every week I'm all in.

Hot take: Bradley Walsh will be good in this.

Whooch.

I 100% know Bradley from The Chase (not the Doctor Who story) - what is he like when not being really annoyingly anti-intellectual all the time?

in cases like this (like with james corden, when he appeared on Who) I'm glad I'm not english and don't have the full context of how annoying this person is supposed to be (I liked corden's turn on who a lot. now that he's inflicted on the US with his own show, I see why people are tired of him though)

CHURCHWOOD

"an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan"

The Master's Dalek Plan

^irl giggle

CHURCHWOOD

it was early in the day and i have... no idea what i meant by this

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

Bradley Walsh is a decent actor. He'll be fine.

I worry that being Bradley Walsh gameshow host who's never off the telly might overshadow his acting ability.

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

"Cyberwoman" was terrible but "Exit Wounds", "Countrycide" and, to a lesser degree, "Fragments" were great. I also think his weakest Who story is "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" which I still enjoyed a lot because of how silly it was.

He was chirpy never-off-the-telly gameshow host while he was doing Law & Order UK and it didn't seem to have much of an impact on him then.

xpost

dan otm, chibnall's writing didn't stay at "cyberwoman" level thank god. also yeah, it feels wrong bagging "dinosaurs" because it was only ever meant to be the thing that it was. moffat/the bbc clearly wanted silly escapist quasi-blockbusters and that's what the writers delivered.

How much Gatiss are we expecting this time round?

i have seen a lot of lols about the new Doctor’s outfit on FB & elsewhere & it is making me annoyed

her look is on point & awesome
the short trousers with tall boots is such a great look esp with her height & propotions etc, and stripes are great & suspenders are cool wtf is wrong with ppl arg

don’t you get it veg she’s feeeeeeemale

grrr

suspenders are a 'little' costumey and it felt a bit like we were past costumey with capaldi, but I like her coat alot and I'm not sure what people have against culottes, I think they are cute on women.

suspenders are great on those who are shaped to accomodate them and horrific for everyone else, any suspender backlash is just indicative of the 90% of the population who can't wear them or who tried and failed
if you can pull them off (and Jodi Whittaker definitely can) I say put the pedal to the metal and go for it

otfm

(to whittaker pulling off the look)

Otfm

(to me wearing suspenders)

The coast is very Took Baker but with some Davison styling, especially around the lapels. The striped shirt also goes with the retro give.

*coat

*Tom Baker

*retro vibe

lol

“Took Baker Coast”, the new contribution from Mark Gatiss

The wireless conversation joke was fucking terrible and the drone joke

I was hoping for a focus on a dalek possessed human instead of a fairly standard dalek

The guardians of the dalek tombs did Fuck all

Try this then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Dalek

Chibbers is all, "You think that I had trouble juggling four people in the TARDIS? How about SEVEN!" How has this guy work for not to mention run any shows?

This is the first episode where I felt that Jodie was bad. Sure the writing was bad as ever but she really rose to its level this time.

Something else that became quite clear to me tonight was that er I like this Doctor but I've had my fill of this.. slightly Jerry Lewis vibe she leans on

Agree! But was thinking more like

http://waffleon.podbean.com/mf/web/vayr4/norman2.jpg
https://duaw26jehqd4r.cloudfront.net/items/3w2c3l2d1B2w2a1V0N15/Screen%20Shot%202019-01-02%20at%2023.02.40.png

So, I was thinking how I wish the next season wouldn't have one of those stories where the Doctor and companions get stuck on a space ship/space base/another isolated sci-fi setting, and they have to find a way to ward off an impending doom which threatens to kill everyone inside, because so far they've done of those at least one of those every season, and they're almost never among the best episodes...

arf

Yeh I guess the Troughton era might've been artifically elevated in my estimation by cool radiophonic musick, Mirrolon and general spillover from a fairly ambitious time in TV storytelling.

/

if loads of those stories weren't missing, I'm sure they'd be extremely watchable just by having Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines in front of a camera together, regardless of how non-boundary-pushing they were

catching a bit of Seeds Of Death on Twitch this morning reminds me that those eras are usually hyper-watchable just for the 1960s ideas of futuristic design & furniture & clothing. This particular serial also including pretty good direction, especially with uncharacteristic pre-filmed-or-recorded and thus edited sequences!

They're running through most of the first 26 seasons again btw - streaming at twitch.tv/twitchpresents, approximate schedule in a google spreadsheet here

you've all missed Troughton off his tits at a foam party

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C-38EYbU5HM/T_wUhT7AInI/AAAAAAAAAQY/5_c_khsBEuI/s1600/seedsofdeathfunnyfoam.gif

Rewatching some of the early Matt Smith episodes, and it's such a relief to watch Doctor Who stories that are fun, funny and clever.

I wanted a therapeutic comfort read over the hols and read Paul Cornell's Virgin NA book, Love and War. It turned out to be pretty horrific, both in content and quality! The idea of the "manipulative" 7th doctor feels so wrong against Mccoy's performance, and not in a pleasing-cognitive-dissonance kind of way, which put Jodie Whitaker's still-awkward take into relief. Anyway, I love DW and it turns out my fandom-do-not-cross boundary is 1990s spin-off paperbacks, more than Chris Chibnall.

Because DW fans are nothing if sad optimists (or were, until recently) I will probably try reading one of the other authors though...

By the end of the NAs, Cornell is the man to go to for warm fuzzy character reunions, and indulgent fanservice. The best novels in the early years are definitely from the "let's push things forward" crew, though! (eg Cornell, Aaronovitch, Cartmel). Gatiss' Nightshade is, unsurprisingly, a nostalgic throwback, but also unsurprisingly, more to Quatermass and spooky-village-70s-teleplay stuff than any specific DW era.

(Andy Lane's All-Consuming Fire takes a similar "the TARDIS materialises in another genre this week" approach, teaming up the Doctor with Sherlock Holmes in a CS Lewis-style SF.)

Cornell's NAs are one of the single biggest influences on nu-Who, though, significantly in his interlacing of the emotional lives of the leads with the adventure melodrama. His original novel of Human Nature might be an easier access point for you?

The Missing Adventures are a safer bet for comfort reads, as they more-or-less functioned as a Virgin sop to fans who didn't want an up-to-date approach in their Who. Gareth Roberts did three Romana-II-and-K9 novels that are absolutely bang-on evocations of the Douglas Adams / Graham Williams era.

The manipulative Doctor is totally taken from the telly Seventh, though! Cornell just adds emotional depth behind the TV/Cartmel opacity. Kate Orman is later really good at blending McCoy's sad-eyed performance and the Dr's dedication to his companions with the secret-agenda motivations.

This particular serial also including pretty good direction

Now checking out Ambassadors Of Death on the stream because it's by the same director - have never seen the colourisation before and hoooo boy, I hope the DVD came with the option to watch a B&W transfer.

(annotation: 7-part 1970 story, with only the first episode held on 2" colour video; eps 2-7 sold for 1980s-etc repeats from b&w films-of-the-TV-screen with comopt soundtracks [ie low-quality compared to magnetic]; in 2002 most of the footage was colourised for VHS release from an American off-air home recording on NTSC Betamax, but this tape was too shitty to even get colour for entire episodes.)

Also one episode's cliffhanger is an upskirt of Liz Shaw's stunt double, yikes.

Cornell seems like a mensch, and L&W is pretty well-written considering it was his debut and written in his early twenties! But it pushes the manipulative stuff much, much further our than Remembrance/Fenric/etc - at least to my tastes, to the point where started not enjoying it. I need the Doctor to have at least some redemptive qualities! The period detail is charming, though - I love the renegade crusties plugging into the Matrix with LITERAL PLUGS from the backs of their necks. SO NINETIES.

Cornell's Ace is pretty too - you can REALLY see the NuWho influence there - like how much Moffat pinched from L&W for season 8 (the dead returning, the angry companion, the death of the boyfriend, etc) - although I prefer the Moffat version.

I think I will try an Orman and a (mild shudder) Roberts, though.

L&W was his second Who novel, and more disciplined than his first (which iirc has the Seventh so manipulative that he engineered the Sixth's falling over and hitting his head so that he would regenerate into Seven)

New series soundtrack is now out, and on Spotify. Sadly does not include a full-length version of the theme, the longest being the end titles at ~50 seconds, though it does have the Indian raga version too.

Love & War is building off of the books that came before it, which ramped up the 7th Doctor manipulation into what we get in Love and War; it's a lot less shocking in sequence than it is coming into it cold. (I jumped from Timewyrm: Genesis into No Future, which was DEFINITELY a narrative shock that only made sense when I went back and read the books that happened in the interim)

Also Nightshade is really, really good, low-key one of my favorites of the entire series

Yeah I went straight from rewatching Remembrance OTD for the first time in 25 years to Love and War and the dissonance was a bit shocking. I just want everyone to be friends! Also Ace, don't fall in love with a dreadlocked Irish redshirt! You're smarter than that Ace.

But yeah, I'll try one of the lightweight ones next, if I can find a 24 hour period on Amazon when they're not crazy $$$.

Shit, I mean 30 years, fucking hell.

If you have an electronic book reader, ilxmail me yr email address.

Done, thanks!!

Oxfam find

https://i.postimg.cc/3htvtqn0/43-C0-BFEA-CBA1-4-E09-8-E58-3-F22-AE4-D4693.jpg

The Alien Planets one I had! It has some good stuff in it.

I had Alien Monsters and it was the first time I read Philip K Dick.

Just listened to a Big Finish where River Song meets Missy and the script quality would totally have fit in with the most recent series.

I'm always surprised by Big Finish's ability to score (and pay) the regular actors, given that their audience must be the niche of a niche of a niche (and the bootlegs are pretty easy to find).

Just listened to a Big Finish where River Song meets Missy and the script quality would totally have fit in with the most recent series.

I can't tell if this is a diss or not.

I'm always surprised by Big Finish's ability to score (and pay) the regular actors,

It’s two or three days work a year, for ppl who otherwise might go two years between TV gigs, they get fed really well, and I’d guess staying involved with Who leads to more invitations to US conventions, for more money than Big Finish pay.

(and the bootlegs are pretty easy to find).

This goes for any commercially released audio with a fanbase, though (and online bootlegs of telly Who are far more widely available!)

I suspect a huge proportion of Big Finish subscribers buy everything and never listen to 95% of it.

^ Dr Who subscribers, that is, not the more nichey stuff they also do massive amounts of

It's a diss, sadly

My kids are still in disbelief that there are no new Doctor Whos for another year, so we've been spending sunday nights dipping into the other seasons. Funny how it feels like there's about a bazillion doctors for them to discover, even just from the Nu-era. Just finished the Silence in the Library 2-parter and I had forgotten just how fucking amazing River Song is. The kids were scared shitless - less of the Vashta Nerada and more with Donna's face being stuck on a plinth.

That's my favorite Davies-era episode.

I suspect a huge proportion of Big Finish subscribers buy everything and never listen to 95% of it.

― steven, soda jerk (sic)

one of the more frustrating parts of being a who fan is the vast amounts of deuterocanonical crap it generates. particularly so because i grew up in an age where doctor who _was_ the deuterocanonical stuff, some of which was amusingly dodge (take a bow, bill baggs) but a large portion of which was people not just sustaining but rebuilding the show into what it would become in 2005.

nowadays, though, it seems like a lot of the offline fanbase are people who define themselves by the merch, regardless of the quality. that's disappointing to me because i do want to actually talk about the show sometimes, and online discourse is, in general, poisoned beyond the point of usefulness

oh, i should probably read tom baker's book though, that sounds like it might be interesting

i guess i should ask here - is scratchman (do not make pun, do not make pun, do not make pun) any good?

General consensus seems to be “much better than 85-year-old Tom Baker ‘writing’ a novelisation of an unfilmable screenplay of some ideas that he and a mate came up with in the pub 40 years ago has any right to be.” I haven’t put the audiobook onto a listening device yet.

^would buy if this were the jacket blurb.

Entertaining episode of 'David Tennant Does a Podcast' where he and Jodie Whittaker chat for 45 minutes about being the Doctor and how it affects your real life, etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu06tlLIyk

Going back to Whitaker’s first season, I don’t actively dislike anything from it aside from the resolution to Kerblam! but I don’t know if you could pay me to watch any of it again aside from It Takes You Away and the two historicals. I may reluctantly have to change my position and agree it is the worst season of nu-Who so far (although I do actively dislike Tennant’s first season more, mostly because his Doctor becomes deeply, intensely unpleasant to watch as his relationship with Rose deepens. Thank god for Martha and Donna, really.

^

Actually the spider one was pretty good, all things considered

^ stockholm syndrome

i never actually finished watching the season because whenever i watched an episode i kept wanting to talk about how much i loved it and then i'd go on here and everybody would be complaining ad nauseam about how awful it was. i'll probably get around to watching the rest sometime.

everybody here constantly bitching and whining about everything in bullet list format made me decide this is in fact the greatest season of Doctor Who that has ever been broadcast on any medium or continent

tombot otm

and the two historicals

I'm guessing this is Rosa and Demons of the Punjab - The Witchfinder has.. different charms.

i guess i should ask here - is scratchman (do not make pun, do not make pun, do not make pun) any good?

― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Sunday, February 17, 2019 2:55 AM (four months ago)

General consensus seems to be “much better than 85-year-old Tom Baker ‘writing’ a novelisation of an unfilmable screenplay of some ideas that he and a mate came up with in the pub 40 years ago has any right to be.” I haven’t put the audiobook onto a listening device yet.

I'm ten minutes in now and it's fantastic. Whether Tom actually wrote any of the sentences or not, it absolutely feels like a geriatric version of his Doctor telling you a possibly-slightly-confused version of something that may have happened to him once. While relentlessly negging Harry Sullivan.

if Tom reads the audiobook version himself, I kinda have to get this

It's him, but he doesn't even sound like he's reading, just remembering.

oh i forgot this existed! i should check this out

i've been watching the macra terror animation, i love it, the story is such a cheap low-budget piece of shit, so much brainless fun

The low-budget nature of the story finally fits the very low budget of the animation. Poor Power and Shada for being test runs.

The way I figure it is that if there'd demand they can always redo Shada. Technically speaking you could probably animate The Macra Terror and The Faceless Ones in a way that would make them look good, but why would you? Even as cheap as it is it's miles beyond anything the fans have come up with. I'm pretty happy.