WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

have at it, folx

So are we looking forward to this? I'm liking the new-broom approach to the casting/costume, and much as I enjoyed the last series (a lot), the fact that it ended with two incarnations of the Master in a Cybermen origins story that culminated in a surprise appearance from the Hartnell Doctor indicates a freshen up might be in order.

But jesus, Chibnall's previous Doctor Who sits on a spectrum of bland to poor - some of the most unmemorable episodes in recent memory. Or am I being pessimistic?

(cheeky plug: we review Chibnall's Silurian two-parter on the most recent edition of my Doctor Who podcast - http://www.illexplainlater.com/post/166422653503/episode-27-land-of-make-believe - where we discussed some of this stuff...)

v much looking forward to seeing how jodie whittaker plays it, v much apprehensive about everything else

The whole show has been feeling very tired and in need of a new injection of ideas for quite some time now. On the other hand I've never seen Broadchurch and most of the episodes Chibnall had written have felt like mid-series filler so I dunno if he's the guy to provide them.

The incredibly shoddy photoshopped TARDIS behind Whitaker's Mork cosplay in the promo photo sets the tone for exactly the level of quality I expect from ol' Chinballs.

Boring writer doesn't neccessariy mean boring showrunner, I'm hoping.

I am excited the same way I am excited for any new actor who takes on the role of the Doctor. I'm also looking forward to the Doctor-companion interaction and which parts will change and which parts will stay the same. I also enjoyed most of Chibnall's Who stories and think his worst work appeared in the first season of Torchwood.

I did read somewhere that he was planning to have more season-long storylines, which is the opposite direction things should be going in imo. A series of only very loosely connected, straighforward one and two parters each written by a different good writer would do the job fine.

I get that on the one hand, but on the other hand the current Golden Age of Television is really strong on bingeable serialized stories that last the whole season, plus his biggest critical praise came from doing that with Broadchurch.

I think the problem with recent Doctor Who arcs is that they're neither fish nor fowl - an awkward mix of 'arc episodes' and deliberately less important standalones that fails to really build to any sort of dramatic crescendo or are rushed at the final stages. I'd be fine with either 10 completely discrete episodes or a single 10-part story (an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan would suit me very nicely).

I think RTD's first season was the only to really pull off its "arc" - unless you count the Riversong episodes as a single story (and why not - at least "Wedding..." finally gave it a satisfying ending).

S1 barely had an arc, just some flash frames of graffiti shot later on and inserted into episodes months after they'd been written

S5 had a fantastic, coherent, satisfyingly complicated plot arc (only undermined by Rory's prop badge), and the first two Capaldi years together pulled off successful parallel character arcs

TBH I'd be happy to settle for the show being fun again and it hasn't felt like that for ages.

^ x1000000
i may try again now

Maybe I read too many Virgin/BBC novels but I can't point at a single season of the reboot that I would say is anti-fun, including Tennant's first season (which is the only one I haven't seen every episode of despite owning multiple copies of it)

lost me with matt smith, tried again with capaldi and still found it a slog

Can we count the 2008-2010 specials?

xp ulysses you crazy, Matt Smith's first season was the best yet.

i agree, first matt smith season is one of the most classic

I demand much less from Who then all of you. I'm happy if it's marginally entertaining which it consistently is. I don't care for her suspenders, but I like her coat, and I think she'll be an interesting doctor. I'm more concerned with three full time companions; that pushes this too far into an ensemble which makes me wonder if they will let her carry the show or not.

the ONE thing I did grow tired of under Moffatt was the manic pace of every episode though. LIke, 1000 things would happen in some of those smith episodes and they just got impossible to follow. Broadchurch, like it or hate it, has a much more staid pace that I hope he brings to the show.

I look at it as back to basics with the caveat that the show has often struggled to juggle story arcs for the Doctor and three full-time companions (the most notorious example I can remember being "Kinda", where Nyssa spends the entire story napping in the TARDIS and pops up at the end asking "hey, did I miss anything?")

If they do it with Bradley Walsh every week I'm all in.

Hot take: Bradley Walsh will be good in this.

Whooch.

I 100% know Bradley from The Chase (not the Doctor Who story) - what is he like when not being really annoyingly anti-intellectual all the time?

in cases like this (like with james corden, when he appeared on Who) I'm glad I'm not english and don't have the full context of how annoying this person is supposed to be (I liked corden's turn on who a lot. now that he's inflicted on the US with his own show, I see why people are tired of him though)

CHURCHWOOD

"an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan"

The Master's Dalek Plan

^irl giggle

CHURCHWOOD

it was early in the day and i have... no idea what i meant by this

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

Bradley Walsh is a decent actor. He'll be fine.

I worry that being Bradley Walsh gameshow host who's never off the telly might overshadow his acting ability.

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

"Cyberwoman" was terrible but "Exit Wounds", "Countrycide" and, to a lesser degree, "Fragments" were great. I also think his weakest Who story is "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" which I still enjoyed a lot because of how silly it was.

He was chirpy never-off-the-telly gameshow host while he was doing Law & Order UK and it didn't seem to have much of an impact on him then.

xpost

dan otm, chibnall's writing didn't stay at "cyberwoman" level thank god. also yeah, it feels wrong bagging "dinosaurs" because it was only ever meant to be the thing that it was. moffat/the bbc clearly wanted silly escapist quasi-blockbusters and that's what the writers delivered.

How much Gatiss are we expecting this time round?

i have seen a lot of lols about the new Doctor’s outfit on FB & elsewhere & it is making me annoyed

her look is on point & awesome
the short trousers with tall boots is such a great look esp with her height & propotions etc, and stripes are great & suspenders are cool wtf is wrong with ppl arg

don’t you get it veg she’s feeeeeeemale

grrr

suspenders are a 'little' costumey and it felt a bit like we were past costumey with capaldi, but I like her coat alot and I'm not sure what people have against culottes, I think they are cute on women.

suspenders are great on those who are shaped to accomodate them and horrific for everyone else, any suspender backlash is just indicative of the 90% of the population who can't wear them or who tried and failed
if you can pull them off (and Jodi Whittaker definitely can) I say put the pedal to the metal and go for it

otfm

(to whittaker pulling off the look)

Otfm

(to me wearing suspenders)

The coast is very Took Baker but with some Davison styling, especially around the lapels. The striped shirt also goes with the retro give.

*coat

*Tom Baker

*retro vibe

lol

“Took Baker Coast”, the new contribution from Mark Gatiss

(That's probably episodes, not stories btw - the old series had 155 stories in 695 episodes, nu-Who has 130 stories in 165 full-length televised eps so far.)


([I don't know that anyone's averaged out each story's ratings across 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 12 or 14 episodes, interesting as that would be, but comparing 1960s and 2020 ratings is apples and kumquats anyway: the sort of numbers that have the show plummeting into the 30s on the chart now would have it falling out of its regular place in the 50s-90s in 1968, and did have it falling off the chart altogether in 1989.])

I am by no means the most qualified Who viewer to weigh in, but I do love the show... after finally catching up with the last few eps, this season was the worst of any I can think of, the finale was garbage, and Chibnall should be canned.

on Day Of The Doctor comparisons: Who twitter is doing a quarantine watchalong of the special rn (Moffatt has rejoined twitter for the occasion and is commenting along at #savetheday), and every 2-minute chunk has at LEAST as much character, plot, visual play and verbal jokes as the clip upthread

As does this:

Yes! Here it is, courtesy of @StevenWMoffat and with the help of @McIntoshNeve, my esteemed colleague Strax entreats you to #SaveTheDay and join us in our viewing of The Day of The Doctor. Today at 7pm GMT, 3pm EST and all around the world! #DoctorWho pic.twitter.com/ljqFWM6QRE

— Dan Starkey (@StanDarkley) March 21, 2020

Love that early 2000s DWM article posted upthread that basically rips on all the ideas Chibnall had in the finale.

Rewatching the special was fun. I didn’t find Clara especially interesting at the time but she might as well be a Karmazov brother next to Yaz.

Osgood also fun. Not sure why they messed around with that character.

- across 17 Chib-era stories with new aliens in, we've had

Tzim-Sha, of the warlike Stenza
space racist Krasko
pilot's brother Durkas *
alien tree monsters the Morax
amnesiac pilot Paltraki vs the religious Ux in The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos
interdimensional Kasaavins
spider monsters the Skithra
plastic virus Praxeus
nightmare werewolf monsters the Chagaska
and what is Ko Sharmus?

the planetary surface of Fintleborxtug

sounds like they at bare minimum need help coming up with alien species names

they at bare

Only two of those don't have Chinballs as credited scriptwriter, and it seems hugely unlikely that the other two didn't have his thumb on hte naming scale

The scripts for Series 12 are up on the BBC website now, giving more insight into Chibnall's writing approach.

https://i.imgur.com/iKcjiMW.jpg

So vomit.

The amazing iconic trio.

https://i.imgur.com/ZOr5oXt.png


https://i.imgur.com/Ptyzs8h.jpg

So non-consensual.

https://i.imgur.com/oq4CtHm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RdrPYpl.jpg

Their love for each other clear. Sad!

lolol at both

so glad i stopped watching this

https://sharedmedia.grahamdigital.com/photo/2017/04/28/President%20Trump%20in%20yellow%20chair.jpg_9620156_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg
"Their love for each other, people say it's one of the clearest loves in history. So sad!"

Does... he not read back over his own scripts?

Watching the episodes, they certainly felt like first drafts.

Honestly, given these scripts I am even more amazed that the cast has delivered the characters I watched.

Yeah hats off to cast and crew for elevating these scripts to even slightly below mediocre.

So acting

Does... he not read back over his own scripts?

― chap, Tuesday, May 12, 2020 7:33 PM (yesterday)

one might have thought this guy was being rudely hyperbolic two years ago but

There are times where it seems Chibnall has set himself a rule where all of these have to be written in order, and he can’t go back and change anything ... once he’s written it.

“Are we eligible too?”
“No, you’re irrelevant.”

It’s like he’s written himself a note, but forgotten to do anything about it on a second draft.

(so pioneering)

at least this was just the new setup finding its feet and didn't remain a constant trait of the era

The dialogue is generally completely empty, the sort of thing that you might put in as a placeholder when blocking the plot, and then come back to fill in with character beats or jokes or subtle foreshadowing or ironic counterpoints. Chibnall does give the occasional line with spark to Jodie, such as “Taking it as a chance to surprise myself,” or “It’s very all that!” suggesting he is aware of the need to make her stand out to the audience. But equally, it suggests he doesn’t see the need for anyone else to do so. Why have a rammed-full TARDIS team of four if three of them are just there to ask “What’s that, Doctor?!” Even more so if her answer every time is “I don’t know, let’s all figure it out at the same time on the next page of the script when someone tells us.”

Keep thinking about the "iconic trio" thing. Has a phrase ever been less apt?

Related to DJP’s point above, they’re kind of iconic to me in the sense that I’ve never pulled so hard for a cast to somehow rise above the incredibly bad material and convince me there are actually stories worth caring about hidden somewhere in all the layers of dumb.

I’ve never had particularly high expectations for doctor who, so it’s difficult for me to be disappointed in it sometimes, but this season was certainly a nadir.

Those scripts are horrible. Imagine really wanting to put work into that pap and try to make something fun out of it, or to try and convince anyone there’s any stakes.

This thread looks at things that went awry between Ed Hime's script and the produced episode of Orphan 55.

Honestly, this kinda confirms what I thought about O55 - the script is genuinely quite good, super fun to read, pops off the page, but it's so let down by the visuals. Like, this scene reads so tense and aesthetically interesting, and it comes out ... just kinda there. pic.twitter.com/JbURzdKVNP

— Sam Maleski (@LookingForTelos) May 11, 2020

(And has a hint that Chibnall took at least a light pass at this, one of three scripts that he didn't add his name to this year:

Sidenote/nitpick: god those scripts use "ICONIC" so fucking much as a descriptor.

)

Script action/parentheticals being semi-literate and cliched is more common than you might think.

(...for tv scripts in general. i haven't looked at many Who scripts.)

This is from the joint script for Fugitive of the Judoon with Vinay Patel. If only Chibnall had some sort of writerly tell, so you could guess which lines were his

https://i.imgur.com/dcquKuN.jpg

the (Beat) as well

So buttons!

had a look through Spyfall for "iconic"s and "so"s, while listening to long-ass Underworld songs for their artist poll. caught a couple of beats along the way:

PASSENGER
Yes, sorry. I'm so clumsy. My sister is always having a go at me for this. Thanks.

OLDER PASSENGER
No problem at all. Enjoy your flight.

The conversation is ever so slightly stilted.

TIBO
And that detached retina --that sounds painful. You've been so unlucky.

RYAN SINCLAIR
So unlucky --

TIBO
So what, we don't see you and now you're off travelling?

ICONIC: moving over Lambeth Bridge to reveal: Thames House

RYAN SINCLAIR
So what, MI6 is trying to kill us?

RYAN SINCLAIR
So one's hidden inside the other.

We're on the face of O --warm, fierce, likeable, so sharp, and a bit ramshackle --watching the TARDIS materialise,

BROWNING
This place. It's open and flat and empty, the whole way round.
(Beat)
So why does it feel like there are things moving out there?

THE DOCTOR
(so quiet)
I don't know.
(Beat)
Let's take a look outside.

SEESAY
From what I understand, we were sent here because you're one of the few people who can stop the attacks on our colleagues. So please, go inside, figure it out, and let us do the job we came for.

Stand-off. Beat.

AND NOW IT'S THE SILHOUETTE THAT LIGHTS UP! A threatening humanoid silhouette now entirely made of light. Glowing! So bright!

And they're moving so fast, like they're feasting on them, with terrible crackles of energy --like they're feral --

Graham checks the screens --so many white glows, moving, bleeding out the camera

The DOCTOR
So you can communicate then. Beyond where?

It's clear it's a threat. The Silhouette so close to him now --his face lit by its glow.

Slowly we pull out to reveal it's part of a thick-tree-trunk like pattern. One of many, amidst darkness. So much darkness.

YAZ KHAN
(so quiet; so mature; to herself)
OK PC Khan. Nothing to worry about.

YAZ KHAN
Don't know.
(Beat)
It was like... nothingness. Nowhere. I was totally alone.
(Beat)
I was so scared.
(Beat)
Ryan, I thought I was dead.

RYAN SINCLAIR
Nah, I'm never gonna let that happen to you.

good luck with that, mate

RYAN SINCLAIR
So do we think Barton was behind assassinating C? And attacking of also the car? And he's in league with these aliens.

THE DOCTOR
What did he say to the creatures in his office?

Yaz KHAN
That they should've been discreet.

THE DOCTOR
So it was like he was in control of them?

The Doctor so still and so quiet as it all connects --

The Doctor steps up --big iconic shot as she announces --

THE DOCTOR (CONT'D)The name's Doctor. The Doctor.
(Beat)
We're on the list.

Barton so still, so coiled as he watches.

JUMP CUT: YAZ blows on the dice and throws them -- ICONIC SHOT: the dice tumble down in slo-mo as O and YAZ and a crowd watch --

THE DOCTOR
I'm the Doctor. I’m a plus one.
(Beat)
So -- did you assassinate the head of MI6 yourself? Or just order it?

ICONIC DRONE SHOT: the three bikes zooming down three separate vine alleys --It's bumpy! Close on Graham and Ryan --both yelling as they bump up and down!

The DOCTOR(staring at O; so uneasy)

O
That's my name. And that's why I chose it!
(grins to the others)
So satisfying.

THE MASTER
One last thing. Something you should know. In the seconds before you die.
(so serious)
Everything that you think you know --is a lie.

Close in on the Doctor --oh and she's so scared --

part 2:

The Silhouette next to Ada now --she's so calm --

DANIEL BARTON
So you know. I don't appreciate last minute changes of plan, as I'm about to take off.

O looks at Barton -- so cold. So still. A death stare. Beat.

Close in on O -- so furious. So dark.

YAZ KHAN
So let's get moving.

THE DOCTOR
So this must be --

CHARLES BABBAGE
My Difference Engine.

ICONIC: Ada and the Doctor run out, as the grenade goes off behind them! Boom!

The Doctor and Ada look up --against the night, framed iconically, heroically --

And Graham stamps his feet so fast and so insistent --stamp stamp stamp stamp --no musicality at all --

Laser bolts firing out of the shoe again and again and again! Hitting other things in the street, (lamp-posts, front doors, bushes!) which either spark as they explode or fizzle away --

--But also hitting Silhouettes, which stagger back, their heads slamming backwards and upwards in pain -- screeching --turning magenta --

And now Graham is turning --like some mad bullfighter stamping and doing a solo El Paso --hands over his head --stamp bolt stamp bolt stamp bolt --so fast, so fast!!

Beat. The woman stares at him with cold contempt.

WOMAN
Well done.

It's so empty, that sentence. Like ashes in the air.

A handful of German SOLDIERS. And a SENIOR OFFICER. He gets down from the vehicle. Looks round. We are behind him centre frame, iconic -- but don't see his face.

And he stamps his foot twice! Two more laser bolts fire out! ICONIC: Push in on heroic bad-ass Graham O'Brien, in his tux. Hard as nails.

THE DOCTOR
So what --you brought the Kasaavin to Earth?

DMP: reveal the iconic building, with a huge V and "DEUTSCHLAND SIEGT AUF ALLEN FRONTEN" banner on it.

GRAHAM O'BRIEN
So what are you, part alien?

DANIEL BARTON
You really don't understand who I am. I build things. I test them.
So I let them test a tiny part of me.
(Beat)
And now it's time for the global rollout. I’m proof of concept.

And O looks at her. So sad.

THE DOCTOR
I bet it wasn't. So arrogant he didn't even change the appearance.

On Ada: OK. Deep breaths from both of them: an iconic pairing.

BARTON (CONT'D)
Funny, right?
(so steely; so still)

Except. Not a joke. We are way past Peak Human. We've created systems that are smarter and can run more efficiently than we do.
(Beat)

So what's our purpose? We must be useful for something.

Close in on Barton. So still. Just watching. Satisfied.

BARTON on stage, sees the energy disappear from his arm and watch, too --and he crawls offstage, so undignified --

THE DOCTOR
Two can play at embedding things in history.
(Beat)

I knew the Silver Lady was important, that you'd built it for a reason. But I couldn't work out why.
(Beat)

So I traced its movements through history. When I saw Barton now owned it, we stopped off in his office. Middle of last year. Using your Tardis.
(Beat)

I built in a failsafe to that machine. Planted a virus, if it ever detected the massing of a Kasaavin army in its systems.
Total shutdown.

THE DOCTOR (CONT'D)
(in French; so quiet)
Bon chance.

THE DOCTOR
(so gentle)
I'm ever so sorry, Ada --

ADA LOVELACE
But I want that knowledge --
(so tearful)

Don't take it away
...

-- And Ada slumps --the Doctor lowers her into a chair. So gentle.

THE MASTER
(so regretful)
I had to make them pay, Doctor. For what I discovered.

The Silhouette next to Ada now --she's so calm --

(so serious)

audible lol at this one

so steely so still

The worst thing here perhaps is putting in

(Beat)

Tom's putting it in

(Beat)

now.

lol

The conversation is ever so slightly stilted.

Only ever so slightly?

On Ada: OK. Deep breaths from both of them: an iconic pairing.

This shit is ridiculous

it's worse than i ever thought possible

Is it at all likely that these were published in an effort to expose chinballs (not that it wasn't already obvious) for the completely inept and unfit showrunner that he is?

I really want to see the Broadchurch scripts now because I really liked that first season and everyone on it was amazing

The one thing I've read about the writing of Broadchurch is that Chibnall didn't put any clues about the murder into it so that if people guessed he would be able to change the ending during the broadcast run, and didn't tell the bloke who played the murderer that he'd been the murderer all along until he got the final script.

ha

how 2 whodunnit

I remember thinking it was quite easy to guess the murderer in the first season, just pick the least obvious character, QED

Christie is way too clever for that trick

The second season of Broadchurch is the definition of a tension-less mystery and even gets a poor performance out of Howard Stark’s lovely butler

shoes that fire deadly laser beams in all directions with no control

Aside from the below reading as though a child dictated it while hallucinating from a fever, I suppose it's mildly satisfying to have confirmation that Chibnall literally doesn't even consider how Graham avoids slaughtering all his best friends with his stampy laser shoes.

And Graham stamps his feet so fast and so insistent --stamp stamp stamp stamp --no musicality at all --

Laser bolts firing out of the shoe again and again and again! Hitting other things in the street, (lamp-posts, front doors, bushes!) which either spark as they explode or fizzle away --

--But also hitting Silhouettes, which stagger back, their heads slamming backwards and upwards in pain -- screeching --turning magenta --

And now Graham is turning --like some mad bullfighter stamping and doing a solo El Paso --hands over his head --stamp bolt stamp bolt stamp bolt --so fast, so fast!!

so excruciating