WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

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have at it, folx

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:42 (three years ago) link

So are we looking forward to this? I'm liking the new-broom approach to the casting/costume, and much as I enjoyed the last series (a lot), the fact that it ended with two incarnations of the Master in a Cybermen origins story that culminated in a surprise appearance from the Hartnell Doctor indicates a freshen up might be in order.

But jesus, Chibnall's previous Doctor Who sits on a spectrum of bland to poor - some of the most unmemorable episodes in recent memory. Or am I being pessimistic?

(cheeky plug: we review Chibnall's Silurian two-parter on the most recent edition of my Doctor Who podcast - http://www.illexplainlater.com/post/166422653503/episode-27-land-of-make-believe - where we discussed some of this stuff...)

bamboohouses, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:02 (three years ago) link

v much looking forward to seeing how jodie whittaker plays it, v much apprehensive about everything else

drinkmaster sealcup at yr service (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:04 (three years ago) link

The whole show has been feeling very tired and in need of a new injection of ideas for quite some time now. On the other hand I've never seen Broadchurch and most of the episodes Chibnall had written have felt like mid-series filler so I dunno if he's the guy to provide them.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:10 (three years ago) link

The incredibly shoddy photoshopped TARDIS behind Whitaker's Mork cosplay in the promo photo sets the tone for exactly the level of quality I expect from ol' Chinballs.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:17 (three years ago) link

Boring writer doesn't neccessariy mean boring showrunner, I'm hoping.

chap, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:20 (three years ago) link

I am excited the same way I am excited for any new actor who takes on the role of the Doctor. I'm also looking forward to the Doctor-companion interaction and which parts will change and which parts will stay the same. I also enjoyed most of Chibnall's Who stories and think his worst work appeared in the first season of Torchwood.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:22 (three years ago) link

I did read somewhere that he was planning to have more season-long storylines, which is the opposite direction things should be going in imo. A series of only very loosely connected, straighforward one and two parters each written by a different good writer would do the job fine.

chap, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:26 (three years ago) link

I get that on the one hand, but on the other hand the current Golden Age of Television is really strong on bingeable serialized stories that last the whole season, plus his biggest critical praise came from doing that with Broadchurch.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:29 (three years ago) link

I think the problem with recent Doctor Who arcs is that they're neither fish nor fowl - an awkward mix of 'arc episodes' and deliberately less important standalones that fails to really build to any sort of dramatic crescendo or are rushed at the final stages. I'd be fine with either 10 completely discrete episodes or a single 10-part story (an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan would suit me very nicely).

bamboohouses, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:36 (three years ago) link

I think RTD's first season was the only to really pull off its "arc" - unless you count the Riversong episodes as a single story (and why not - at least "Wedding..." finally gave it a satisfying ending).

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:49 (three years ago) link

S1 barely had an arc, just some flash frames of graffiti shot later on and inserted into episodes months after they'd been written

S5 had a fantastic, coherent, satisfyingly complicated plot arc (only undermined by Rory's prop badge), and the first two Capaldi years together pulled off successful parallel character arcs

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:57 (three years ago) link

TBH I'd be happy to settle for the show being fun again and it hasn't felt like that for ages.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 November 2017 18:01 (three years ago) link

^ x1000000
i may try again now

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 9 November 2017 19:35 (three years ago) link

Maybe I read too many Virgin/BBC novels but I can't point at a single season of the reboot that I would say is anti-fun, including Tennant's first season (which is the only one I haven't seen every episode of despite owning multiple copies of it)

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 9 November 2017 19:38 (three years ago) link

lost me with matt smith, tried again with capaldi and still found it a slog

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:01 (three years ago) link

Can we count the 2008-2010 specials?

xp ulysses you crazy, Matt Smith's first season was the best yet.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:05 (three years ago) link

i agree, first matt smith season is one of the most classic

I demand much less from Who then all of you. I'm happy if it's marginally entertaining which it consistently is. I don't care for her suspenders, but I like her coat, and I think she'll be an interesting doctor. I'm more concerned with three full time companions; that pushes this too far into an ensemble which makes me wonder if they will let her carry the show or not.

akm, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:09 (three years ago) link

the ONE thing I did grow tired of under Moffatt was the manic pace of every episode though. LIke, 1000 things would happen in some of those smith episodes and they just got impossible to follow. Broadchurch, like it or hate it, has a much more staid pace that I hope he brings to the show.

akm, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:24 (three years ago) link

I look at it as back to basics with the caveat that the show has often struggled to juggle story arcs for the Doctor and three full-time companions (the most notorious example I can remember being "Kinda", where Nyssa spends the entire story napping in the TARDIS and pops up at the end asking "hey, did I miss anything?")

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:27 (three years ago) link

If they do it with Bradley Walsh every week I'm all in.

nashwan, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:45 (three years ago) link

Hot take: Bradley Walsh will be good in this.

But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:57 (three years ago) link

Whooch.

Entree 3000 (Leee), Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:05 (three years ago) link

I 100% know Bradley from The Chase (not the Doctor Who story) - what is he like when not being really annoyingly anti-intellectual all the time?

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:17 (three years ago) link

in cases like this (like with james corden, when he appeared on Who) I'm glad I'm not english and don't have the full context of how annoying this person is supposed to be (I liked corden's turn on who a lot. now that he's inflicted on the US with his own show, I see why people are tired of him though)

akm, Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:19 (three years ago) link

CHURCHWOOD

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:24 (three years ago) link

"an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan"

The Master's Dalek Plan

Chunky Backgammon (onimo), Friday, 10 November 2017 00:19 (three years ago) link

^irl giggle

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Friday, 10 November 2017 08:31 (three years ago) link

CHURCHWOOD

it was early in the day and i have... no idea what i meant by this

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 10 November 2017 08:58 (three years ago) link

Bradley Walsh is a decent actor. He'll be fine.

ailsa, Friday, 10 November 2017 10:41 (three years ago) link

I worry that being Bradley Walsh gameshow host who's never off the telly might overshadow his acting ability.

Chunky Backgammon (onimo), Friday, 10 November 2017 14:01 (three years ago) link

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

"Cyberwoman" was terrible but "Exit Wounds", "Countrycide" and, to a lesser degree, "Fragments" were great. I also think his weakest Who story is "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" which I still enjoyed a lot because of how silly it was.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Friday, 10 November 2017 16:28 (three years ago) link

He was chirpy never-off-the-telly gameshow host while he was doing Law & Order UK and it didn't seem to have much of an impact on him then.

xpost

ailsa, Friday, 10 November 2017 17:55 (three years ago) link

dan otm, chibnall's writing didn't stay at "cyberwoman" level thank god. also yeah, it feels wrong bagging "dinosaurs" because it was only ever meant to be the thing that it was. moffat/the bbc clearly wanted silly escapist quasi-blockbusters and that's what the writers delivered.

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 10 November 2017 20:32 (three years ago) link

How much Gatiss are we expecting this time round?

Never changed username before (cardamon), Friday, 10 November 2017 23:14 (three years ago) link

i have seen a lot of lols about the new Doctor’s outfit on FB & elsewhere & it is making me annoyed

her look is on point & awesome
the short trousers with tall boots is such a great look esp with her height & propotions etc, and stripes are great & suspenders are cool wtf is wrong with ppl arg

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 November 2017 00:47 (three years ago) link

don’t you get it veg she’s feeeeeeemale

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 11 November 2017 01:17 (three years ago) link

grrr

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:30 (three years ago) link

suspenders are a 'little' costumey and it felt a bit like we were past costumey with capaldi, but I like her coat alot and I'm not sure what people have against culottes, I think they are cute on women.

akm, Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:41 (three years ago) link

suspenders are great on those who are shaped to accomodate them and horrific for everyone else, any suspender backlash is just indicative of the 90% of the population who can't wear them or who tried and failed
if you can pull them off (and Jodi Whittaker definitely can) I say put the pedal to the metal and go for it

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 November 2017 04:47 (three years ago) link

otfm

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 11 November 2017 05:16 (three years ago) link

(to whittaker pulling off the look)

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 11 November 2017 05:16 (three years ago) link

Otfm

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:39 (three years ago) link

(to me wearing suspenders)

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:40 (three years ago) link

The coast is very Took Baker but with some Davison styling, especially around the lapels. The striped shirt also goes with the retro give.

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:41 (three years ago) link

*coat

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:42 (three years ago) link

*Tom Baker

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:42 (three years ago) link

*retro vibe

Entree 3000 (Leee), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:43 (three years ago) link

lol

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 November 2017 07:45 (three years ago) link

“Took Baker Coast”, the new contribution from Mark Gatiss

rove mcmanus island (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 11 November 2017 08:08 (three years ago) link

Since you missed THE ACTUAL FUCKING TITLE of the Gizmodo story, it's pointless interfering with your crusade.

You win, drink your weak lemon drink NOW!

Bye.

Well *I* know who he is (aldo), Friday, 30 July 2021 17:11 (two months ago) link

“Doctor Who Season 13 Will Be Just 8 Episodes Long” is the headline on the page as it loads for me, but again, I’m on a phone and can’t check the browser header if that’s different.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Friday, 30 July 2021 17:15 (two months ago) link

Browser header (on Chrome) is also:

Doctor Who Season 13 Will Be Just 8 Episodes Long

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 30 July 2021 17:19 (two months ago) link

the less the better tbh

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 30 July 2021 17:23 (two months ago) link

hope dan's ok

lemmy incaution (emsworth), Saturday, 31 July 2021 06:53 (two months ago) link

y'all makinf me feel nostalgic for the days when I studiously avoided rec.arts.drwho

mark e. smith-moon (f. hazel), Saturday, 31 July 2021 15:54 (two months ago) link

also, I would watch a season where the Time Lords punish the Doctor by forcing him to look after the real-life Kevin Sorbo for a year

mark e. smith-moon (f. hazel), Saturday, 31 July 2021 16:00 (two months ago) link

Nothing really matched the day I went back through the legendary RADW flame wars and realized that even though he was a massive cock about it 95% of the time, Azaxyr was more right than wrong

Karl Havoc (DJP), Saturday, 31 July 2021 17:28 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

Woof:

Doctor Who: Russell T Davies returns as programme showrunner

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58682472

Tracer Hand, Friday, 24 September 2021 14:43 (three weeks ago) link

Whoah. Glad to see him leave; now surprisingly happy to have him back.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 24 September 2021 15:43 (three weeks ago) link

Fire up the Olly Alexander rumours again, I guess!

the thin blue lying (suzy), Friday, 24 September 2021 16:13 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah, was bored by the end of his first run, but after the turgid Chinballs era, this seems like really good news.

ailsa, Friday, 24 September 2021 16:24 (three weeks ago) link

xp That would almost certainly mean a musical episode, not sure how I feel about that.

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 24 September 2021 16:24 (three weeks ago) link

shows he's run since DW have been mostly fantastic so this is as good as news can get, IMO

akm, Friday, 24 September 2021 17:07 (three weeks ago) link

So wait this is pretty much a guarantee that if Yaz and/or Dan stays on, one of them is gonna fuck the Doctor after regeneration, isn't it

talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Friday, 24 September 2021 17:14 (three weeks ago) link

maybe they will both fuck the doctor

akm, Friday, 24 September 2021 17:23 (three weeks ago) link

she will regenerate during orgasm

akm, Friday, 24 September 2021 17:23 (three weeks ago) link

RUSTY ALL IS FORGIVEN, and all it took was a couple seasons of the worst possible showrunner.

Carte Blanchett (Leee), Friday, 24 September 2021 17:48 (three weeks ago) link

I mean by any sane metric a cowardly backwards move, but as you all say, the awfulness of Chinballs has pissed all over the metrics.

chap, Friday, 24 September 2021 18:01 (three weeks ago) link

When Chibnall signed on, he was so unready to deliver that his predecessor had to be called back to fill in for two years with a full series and a special. Six years later, Chibnall’s eked out two reduced-length series, with the equivalent of one more due by the end of his eighth year. And the BBC are having to bring back the predecessor’s predecessor, as well as that guy’s co-producer/showrunner from 2005-09, and the commissioning executive from 2005, to do another fill-in two years of a special plus a series.

Six years of nobody in charge apparently bothering to look for or develop a head writer with new vision and real energy. Even if RTD doesn’t re-up, by the time he goes it will have been ten years since Moffat quit, an exhausted 54-year-old, but also the last new person to sign on with ideas about making the show fizz with energy and keep trying different things.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Friday, 24 September 2021 18:39 (three weeks ago) link

my takeaway is that McG should have been the new showrunner

talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Friday, 24 September 2021 18:44 (three weeks ago) link

Even with covid shutdown, we could have had three seasons of Mathieson and two of Dollard by now. After giving it to a 40-year-old, a 47-year-old, and a 45-year-old, they’ve shrugged and given it to the first bloke again, who will be SIXTY by the time his first ep airs. Letting tumblr teens plot a season and McG (48 in 2015) direct would have been entertaining for sure.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Friday, 24 September 2021 19:10 (three weeks ago) link

(obv if it’s the writer of It’s A Sin, Years & Years, Cucumber, parts of Banana, and A Very English Scandal that shows up to work, I will insist on OVER 55’s ONLY from now on)

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Friday, 24 September 2021 19:14 (three weeks ago) link

RTD pitching the new series of Dr Who

https://i.gifer.com/Bjpt.gif

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 24 September 2021 19:26 (three weeks ago) link

is mcg mcgann or the charlie's angels director?

adam t. (abanana), Friday, 24 September 2021 21:05 (three weeks ago) link

mcgann is quite a bit older than 48

akm, Saturday, 25 September 2021 03:13 (three weeks ago) link

I wouldn't be surprised to see eccleston back now for an episode

akm, Saturday, 25 September 2021 03:14 (three weeks ago) link

mcg is patrick mcgoohan obv

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 25 September 2021 03:19 (three weeks ago) link

this is… good? like, yeah safe and cowardly, agreed - but a strong intervention and course correction with a bit of succession planning sounds pretty cool - i had given up on the show and felt cancellation was probably the kindest move, but this is pretty interesting.

lemmy incaution (emsworth), Saturday, 25 September 2021 03:55 (three weeks ago) link

wouldn't be surprised to see eccleston back now for an episode

surely this would make eccleston far less likely than before

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Saturday, 25 September 2021 04:04 (three weeks ago) link

Erm yeah.

“I left because my relationship with Russell T Davies, Julie Gardner and Phil Collinson completely broke down during the shooting of the first series. I think it’s fair to say… that the first series nobody knows what they’re doing and the politics are raging. The shooting of the first series was a nightmare. I agreed with Russell that I would go, quietly and respectfully, and I would look after the show publicity-wise, in terms of publicising it. And then, without saying anything to me, they announced that I was leaving. They didn’t tell me they were going to do that. I was walking down the street and suddenly I got quite a lot of aggression. And more importantly… they created a quote, and they attributed it to me, which said I was tired. Now the thing is about that, ‘Oh I found it too tiring’, I didn’t find it too tiring. I found it too tiring working with Russell, and Phil and Julia. I didn’t find it physically too tiring. When they said that, any other producer reading that would go ‘Oh, we’re not going to employ Christopher Eccleston because he gets tired’. So it was a lie, and it was in quotation marks, and I’m from Salford, you don’t do that to me. So they issued a kind of apology, but it’s not enough, so no."

Have to admit though that the fact it slams the door on an Eccleston return (which was super unlikely anyway no matter who took over) is the only thing I don't like about this news. RTD's writing has only got better since his first run.

JimD, Monday, 27 September 2021 12:34 (three weeks ago) link

(That quote's from Dragon Con at the start of this month btw so it's a pretty fresh "I still hate these fuckers").

JimD, Monday, 27 September 2021 12:45 (three weeks ago) link

I've been thinking about Rusty's writing obsessions and I think they're focusing on the wrong collaborator for the role. His big thing is weak relationships with mothers, it's in everything he does, and he might well look at Chinballs' work and think he'd be better at writing a female Doctor.

So not Olly Alexander, but Lydia West. And the 60th Anniversary to feature the return of Susan, and to look at how dysfunctional a grandmother the Doctor was to her.

Long enough attention span for a Stephen Bissette blu-ray extra (aldo), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:05 (three weeks ago) link

writes down "do not lie about people from Salford" in his immigrant's guide to Britain notebook

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 27 September 2021 15:12 (three weeks ago) link

Looks like the production staff have been lumping money on Olly Alexander, betting suspended yesterday. Ladbrokes only one back open with him odds on.

Long enough attention span for a Stephen Bissette blu-ray extra (aldo), Wednesday, 6 October 2021 21:34 (two weeks ago) link

Everyone focusing on the potentials for same-sex romance with Olly, but have we also considered the possibility of a "once more with feeling" style musical episode?

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 6 October 2021 21:37 (two weeks ago) link

I'm sure Rusty mentions that in The Writer's Tale as something he would have loved to have done.

Long enough attention span for a Stephen Bissette blu-ray extra (aldo), Wednesday, 6 October 2021 22:06 (two weeks ago) link

Maybe I'm conflating it with the Torchwood/ABBA musical.

Long enough attention span for a Stephen Bissette blu-ray extra (aldo), Wednesday, 6 October 2021 22:09 (two weeks ago) link

Apparently all the money went on Lydia West, which is why you can't place a bet on her any more. The words "leaked email" have been thrown around.

Entirely coincidentally, and I'm sure not a harbinger of anything, all the official Who social media went offline about two hours ago.

Long enough attention span for a Stephen Bissette blu-ray extra (aldo), Friday, 8 October 2021 18:38 (one week ago) link

there is now a phone number to call, ending in 3110 (ie Halloween TX), with a recorded message of Jodie saying "if you're hearing this, enemies from across the universe have blah blah etc."

fake-deleting all the social media channels means that the latest blu-ray trailer was only on youtube for a few hours. great work, Chris.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Saturday, 9 October 2021 15:28 (one week ago) link

Five of the six episodes in the soon-come Doctor Who: Flux miniseries are by Chibnall solo, ep 4 is an Alderton co-write.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 14 October 2021 06:54 (six days ago) link

Fuck

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Thursday, 14 October 2021 11:52 (six days ago) link

Chibnall, the lame duck era. Deep breath and let's get over with it

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 October 2021 12:04 (six days ago) link

I saw someone saying the BBC announcing Chibs leaving was a fuck you to everyone who worked on this season. I see it as the BBC knowing it'll be shit and giving fans some positive news to tide them by.

adam t. (abanana), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:11 (six days ago) link

Don't hold your breath too long, there's still eleven months (three episodes) of Chibs after this season ends!

At least he's taken on feedback, after Timeless Child, that having the characters stand still and recite wikipedia lists is not dramatically compelling:

The Flux is Coming... pic.twitter.com/UmvY5rXJbW

— Doctor Who: Flux (@bbcdoctorwho) October 9, 2021

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 14 October 2021 18:52 (six days ago) link

she’s not looking at the camera

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 14 October 2021 19:49 (six days ago) link

lol flux: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flux

Leee Tigre (Leee), Thursday, 14 October 2021 21:41 (six days ago) link

she’s not looking at the camera

at least he's consistent

lol flux

at least he's consistent

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Friday, 15 October 2021 06:36 (five days ago) link

i've run out of flux to give

lemmy incaution (emsworth), Friday, 15 October 2021 07:15 (five days ago) link

at least he's consistent

oh COME ON

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Saturday, 16 October 2021 15:48 (four days ago) link


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