WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

have at it, folx

So are we looking forward to this? I'm liking the new-broom approach to the casting/costume, and much as I enjoyed the last series (a lot), the fact that it ended with two incarnations of the Master in a Cybermen origins story that culminated in a surprise appearance from the Hartnell Doctor indicates a freshen up might be in order.

But jesus, Chibnall's previous Doctor Who sits on a spectrum of bland to poor - some of the most unmemorable episodes in recent memory. Or am I being pessimistic?

(cheeky plug: we review Chibnall's Silurian two-parter on the most recent edition of my Doctor Who podcast - http://www.illexplainlater.com/post/166422653503/episode-27-land-of-make-believe - where we discussed some of this stuff...)

v much looking forward to seeing how jodie whittaker plays it, v much apprehensive about everything else

The whole show has been feeling very tired and in need of a new injection of ideas for quite some time now. On the other hand I've never seen Broadchurch and most of the episodes Chibnall had written have felt like mid-series filler so I dunno if he's the guy to provide them.

The incredibly shoddy photoshopped TARDIS behind Whitaker's Mork cosplay in the promo photo sets the tone for exactly the level of quality I expect from ol' Chinballs.

Boring writer doesn't neccessariy mean boring showrunner, I'm hoping.

I am excited the same way I am excited for any new actor who takes on the role of the Doctor. I'm also looking forward to the Doctor-companion interaction and which parts will change and which parts will stay the same. I also enjoyed most of Chibnall's Who stories and think his worst work appeared in the first season of Torchwood.

I did read somewhere that he was planning to have more season-long storylines, which is the opposite direction things should be going in imo. A series of only very loosely connected, straighforward one and two parters each written by a different good writer would do the job fine.

I get that on the one hand, but on the other hand the current Golden Age of Television is really strong on bingeable serialized stories that last the whole season, plus his biggest critical praise came from doing that with Broadchurch.

I think the problem with recent Doctor Who arcs is that they're neither fish nor fowl - an awkward mix of 'arc episodes' and deliberately less important standalones that fails to really build to any sort of dramatic crescendo or are rushed at the final stages. I'd be fine with either 10 completely discrete episodes or a single 10-part story (an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan would suit me very nicely).

I think RTD's first season was the only to really pull off its "arc" - unless you count the Riversong episodes as a single story (and why not - at least "Wedding..." finally gave it a satisfying ending).

S1 barely had an arc, just some flash frames of graffiti shot later on and inserted into episodes months after they'd been written

S5 had a fantastic, coherent, satisfyingly complicated plot arc (only undermined by Rory's prop badge), and the first two Capaldi years together pulled off successful parallel character arcs

TBH I'd be happy to settle for the show being fun again and it hasn't felt like that for ages.

^ x1000000
i may try again now

Maybe I read too many Virgin/BBC novels but I can't point at a single season of the reboot that I would say is anti-fun, including Tennant's first season (which is the only one I haven't seen every episode of despite owning multiple copies of it)

lost me with matt smith, tried again with capaldi and still found it a slog

Can we count the 2008-2010 specials?

xp ulysses you crazy, Matt Smith's first season was the best yet.

i agree, first matt smith season is one of the most classic

I demand much less from Who then all of you. I'm happy if it's marginally entertaining which it consistently is. I don't care for her suspenders, but I like her coat, and I think she'll be an interesting doctor. I'm more concerned with three full time companions; that pushes this too far into an ensemble which makes me wonder if they will let her carry the show or not.

the ONE thing I did grow tired of under Moffatt was the manic pace of every episode though. LIke, 1000 things would happen in some of those smith episodes and they just got impossible to follow. Broadchurch, like it or hate it, has a much more staid pace that I hope he brings to the show.

I look at it as back to basics with the caveat that the show has often struggled to juggle story arcs for the Doctor and three full-time companions (the most notorious example I can remember being "Kinda", where Nyssa spends the entire story napping in the TARDIS and pops up at the end asking "hey, did I miss anything?")

If they do it with Bradley Walsh every week I'm all in.

Hot take: Bradley Walsh will be good in this.

Whooch.

I 100% know Bradley from The Chase (not the Doctor Who story) - what is he like when not being really annoyingly anti-intellectual all the time?

in cases like this (like with james corden, when he appeared on Who) I'm glad I'm not english and don't have the full context of how annoying this person is supposed to be (I liked corden's turn on who a lot. now that he's inflicted on the US with his own show, I see why people are tired of him though)

CHURCHWOOD

"an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan"

The Master's Dalek Plan

^irl giggle

CHURCHWOOD

it was early in the day and i have... no idea what i meant by this

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

Bradley Walsh is a decent actor. He'll be fine.

I worry that being Bradley Walsh gameshow host who's never off the telly might overshadow his acting ability.

re chibnall: i'm excited that it's essentially a minor ~reboot~ (god knows this show needs it) but chibnall's writing has never done anything for me. cyberwoman was one of the worst things that has ever happened, although to be fair it was a really long time ago.

"Cyberwoman" was terrible but "Exit Wounds", "Countrycide" and, to a lesser degree, "Fragments" were great. I also think his weakest Who story is "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" which I still enjoyed a lot because of how silly it was.

He was chirpy never-off-the-telly gameshow host while he was doing Law & Order UK and it didn't seem to have much of an impact on him then.

xpost

dan otm, chibnall's writing didn't stay at "cyberwoman" level thank god. also yeah, it feels wrong bagging "dinosaurs" because it was only ever meant to be the thing that it was. moffat/the bbc clearly wanted silly escapist quasi-blockbusters and that's what the writers delivered.

How much Gatiss are we expecting this time round?

i have seen a lot of lols about the new Doctor’s outfit on FB & elsewhere & it is making me annoyed

her look is on point & awesome
the short trousers with tall boots is such a great look esp with her height & propotions etc, and stripes are great & suspenders are cool wtf is wrong with ppl arg

don’t you get it veg she’s feeeeeeemale

grrr

suspenders are a 'little' costumey and it felt a bit like we were past costumey with capaldi, but I like her coat alot and I'm not sure what people have against culottes, I think they are cute on women.

suspenders are great on those who are shaped to accomodate them and horrific for everyone else, any suspender backlash is just indicative of the 90% of the population who can't wear them or who tried and failed
if you can pull them off (and Jodi Whittaker definitely can) I say put the pedal to the metal and go for it

otfm

(to whittaker pulling off the look)

Otfm

(to me wearing suspenders)

The coast is very Took Baker but with some Davison styling, especially around the lapels. The striped shirt also goes with the retro give.

*coat

*Tom Baker

*retro vibe

lol

“Took Baker Coast”, the new contribution from Mark Gatiss

https://i.imgur.com/dS8IjfU.jpg

"How can we do the Slitheen only less charming?" wasn't really a question I wanted the production team to answer

Do you guys all hate Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways? I really like those

never rewatched but from memory: good dramatic structure, the TV parodies work well but the Captain Jack “I hid this enormous laser gun up my bum” joke doesn’t, Eccleston is great, I hate it every time RTD gives characters superpowers.

That joke wouldn't work for anyone else but c'mon, it's Barrowman, he pulls it off!

I think the early-2000s reality tv element of bad wolf, Anne-droid, etc., is not good.

“I hid this enormous laser gun up my bum” joke doesn’t

If you rewatch you will find the joke works because of how relatively tiny the gun is.

Barrowman you coward

Chibnall’s biggest problem seems to be that he thinks this is primarily a show for kids - where did he get such a preposterous idea

― El Tomboto, Saturday, January 4, 2020 2:26 PM (two weeks ago)

Robert Holmes thought it was almost exclusively a show for kids

― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, January 4, 2020 2:41 PM (two weeks ago)

No problem with it being a show for kids, just want it to be better than disposable trash for kids.

― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Saturday, January 4, 2020 4:26 PM (two weeks ago)

Just watched the first part of Mackenzie Crook's Worzel Gummidge adap, and somehow managed to find a show for kids to be delightful, charming, spooky, mildly witty, and to follow through on the premises and gags that it sets up.

― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, January 4, 2020 4:48 PM (two weeks ago)

I should give that a go, Wiesel Gummidge terrifies me a a child and I could exorcise that demon.

― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, January 4, 2020 6:19 PM (two weeks ago)

The two Worzel episodes were really, unexpectedly impressive.

― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, January 5, 2020 10:35 AM (two weeks ago)

Just watched the second ep of nu-Worzel and it's even better (and with more & way creepier creatures than part one, or all of Who S11)

flicked over to the Doctor Who Classic channel on Pluto afterward and am one-and-a-half episodes deep into Caves Of Androzani

man, shows for kids are great

btw

"an updated spin on The Daleks' Masterplan"

The Master's Dalek Plan

― Chunky Backgammon (onimo), Friday, November 10, 2017 11:19 AM (two years ago)

^irl giggle

― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Friday, November 10, 2017 7:31 PM (two years ago)

am tipsy but accidentally snorted at this again while the thread was unspooling

is Worzel Gummidge worth watching when i'm totally unfamiliar with the other versions?

sure!

(I read most of 'em when I was six or seven, but the main element of the premise that I can even remember wasn't part of this version.)

this seems to be a season solely for kids.

tesla: (describes crazy inductive charging idea)
ryan: that's wifi! tesla invented wifi!
doctor: tesla should have been a billionaire!
me: groan

Finally got to see the 2nd episode of Worzel Gummidge yesterday and it's pretty good. My brother who read the books in his childhood says it's truer to the book. THough obvioulsy there are some updates. I haven't read the books so don't know how th children are represented. I'm assuming they've been othered in some way, like they're city kids in the country for some reason. I'd assume reason was the war or them being orphaned or something.
Seems to be a lot of talk about the current show being untrue to the Jon Pertwee original but it seems like the Pertwee show may have been more loosely based on the books. aunt Sally in this seems to be a more matronly aunt figure , the love interest if that is the relationship is the allotment scarecrow Earthy Mangold.
& Mackenzie Crook looks like he's an anthropomorphised traditional scarecrow, like with a turnip head and clothing over crossed sticks quite effectively. Heard some watchers were complaining that he wasn't anything like Pertwee , no he's more like a scarecrow.
Still not sure where that jacket came from, think it's survived very well fora 19th century garment if not earlier. Like if it's been out in the elements etc.

Very good show

Speaking of kids Tv, every series of SarAh Jane Adventures had at least 1 story better than any Chibnall Who.

Even Richard Curtis--RICHARD CURTIS--managed to actually make the eventual fate of the miserable tormented failure genius in his story moving.

At least Edison was correctly portrayed as a total shit. Wouldn't have been beyond this version of the show to hero worship him.

felt like the Edison guy was kinda auditioning to play Trump

ha ha, i thought there might be a team-up in the works with edison and the fake trump from last season.

hello

my name is nikola tesla

you steal-a my invention

prepare to die

what were they doing hanging around the year 1900 in those get-ups by the way? did they explain that?

this was extremely basic crapola once again but i will admit i did a little 'whoop!' when the doctor caused a large piece of the ceiling to ignominiously clonk one of their hooded pursuers on the head

also surely the racnoss have a copyright infringement suit to file against the *checks notes* skithra??!? all of whom are absolute rubbish at running around corners?? (apart from their queen, who does not look like a scorpion but a human with a racnoss mask on.) my son: "shoot it!!" me: "look at them! a gun wouldn't do any-" *one shot from a 19th-century pistol causes a skithra to immediately crumple and expire*

I'd assume reason was the war or them being orphaned or something.

(they're first sent to the farm to be quarantined with whooping cough, and to recover in clean country air! definitely not a relatable motivation for audiences in 2019 vs 1935.)

didn't recognise Luka from er as tesla until i read imdb*. croatian actor playing serbian historical figure, close enough.

* was looking for the actor playing the queen. was the girl from sarah jane adventures** keeping it in the family.

** not the one from submarine

The queen's tail seemed to be invisible most of the time

Speaking of kids Tv, every series of SarAh Jane Adventures had at least 1 story better than any Chibnall Who.

This otm. "Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane" is a goddamn masterpiece.

I tried getting through more than 10 minutes of this week’s episode, but it’s just so excruciating and boring to watch. JW is genuinely awful in this imo

what were they doing hanging around the year 1900 in those get-ups by the way? did they explain that?

They were just hanging around having a holiday on the Orient Express when they went to investigate Tesla's weird electrical signals or something handwavey like that.

The queen's tail seemed to be invisible most of the time

tbf that's how it is in real life too

Since this seems to have become the default Worzel Gummidge thread, might I suggest those with rose-tinted memories of the Pertwee show not run the risk of breaking the spell by actually watching the show again. Christ, it's a chore for the most part. (Actually, the guest stars and the sort of plot that links them all is quite good but it's very loose.)

Setup (usually involving Mr Peters sloping off to have a bit of a drink, which frees the kids up)
Slapstick routine (usually involving cakes being thrown round)
Lesson is learned
Every series ends with a dance routine

I must’ve watched that show every week, but I can’t remember a single thing, except being frightened by an episode that ended when Jon Pertwee fell off a hill in a wheelbarrow

I assumed the Orient Express line was a joke? Weren’t they in New York ?

This is the time I met Worzel Gummidge at the International Garden Festival in Liverpool, I am the terrified child.

https://i.imgur.com/u4Blr4s.jpg

xpost to Chuck

There's actually not a lot to remember. An awful lot of head changes and lots of cakes being thrown around.

In retrospect, by the end of S4 Una Stubbs' Aunt Sally (as opposed to the Connie Booth Aunt Sally that turns up in one episode) is a completely tragic figure - poisoned by the romantic fantasies that are completely imagined, she's so lost in them that her dismissals on Worzel become increasingly cruel as he doesn't live up to them. Worzel, on the other hand, is a puppy you watch repeatedly being beaten and not going with the nice man from the RSPCA because he's not the master.

In other Worzel news, I am still laughing at cows with swears painted on them.

The swears were something else .

I noted the word Horse was still visible when they went to be milked.

New thread, chaps?

Maybe, I think somebody had just asked how the new show was.
Hope there's more of that coming anyway.

This week's ep got the second-lowest audience Appreciation Index figure of all nu-Who (77, above 76 for Love & Monsters in 2006).

Rated in 25th place for the week on +7.

croatian actor playing serbian historical figure, close enough.

Beats having a white actor playing a Chinese character.

Bradley Walsh getting to grips with fandom.

I'm caught up now - Orphan 55 was terrible of course, but I did like the implication that when humanity returned to Earth and set up a holiday camp in Russia, they saved some money by reusing the snack machine that they found there, with the Made in China sticker, in English.

Still on Orphan 55 -

Rated in 25th place for the week on +7

the 24 places above it were filled by 12 different programmes, including five Coronation Streets, 6 Emmerdales, two Silent Witnesses, two 6pm BBC newses and ITV's Bradley Walsh: Breaking Dad.

Looks like word-of-mouth on this episode had a significant hit on catch-up viewing during the week, adding just 1 million viewers, or 22% of the overnights. Last season consistently added 25-30%, and the final Capaldi season, whose overnights were battered by moving around from week to week, airing during spring and summer daylight, and being scheduled against popular live events, was adding up to 60% on catchup in the summer.

btw Camaraderie's Pertwee photo is the best of the genre I've seen since someone on the KLF mailing list in the 90's attached a pic of himself and his brother both wrapped in a Williams-era replacement Tom scarf that his mum had knitted for the production, before it left their house and went to the BBC

However, current version of the theme song is by far the best in nuWho

I agree!!

The theme song sounds like it’s being played in my neighbor’s house over here. BBC America have somehow cut the high end out almost completely, leaving a muddy mess. I’ve much preferred the music overall in this era, I think we discussed looking forward to the change of composers a few years ago? Glad that panned out.

re a show for kids: the Colour Out Of Space flick totally feels like a 1975-77 Who story, but made with the resources of the current show and starring some kids (if you cut out 1.5 seconds of Nic Cage yelling "cocksucker"). make Richard Stanley the showrunner, you cowards.

And what Joely Richardson does in the kitchen - although you could save that by being less graphic and doing it in cutaway - but apart from that, yeah, give it to Richard Stanley.

Seeds of Doom is as Lovecraftian as it gets (possibly because it rips off The Thing for the first half) but there are lots of other candidates.

Yeah, the old and new show have plenty of scenes with vastly worse injury, they just use less fake blood (or make it green)

next half dozen episodes are non-Chibnall-written!

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:55 AM (one week ago)

Chibnall now taking writing credits on the other episodes by returning 2018 writers

Was it ever revealed what Chibnall changed in "Rosa"? Because I thought that was a mostly good episode let down by a crap racewar villain and some slapstick scenes. and rosa parks being happy that there's a cop in her house.