Is the West Experiencing a Left-Wing Drift? (the international left politics activism, news, and strategy thread)

hottt off the DSA's local wins a couple of days ago, here's a place to discuss current left movements and orgs, ponder strategy and all that fun stuff. not gonna police/define what "left" means too rigidly except to say there's already a democratic party thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUXMzkh-jI

I guess the only hard-and-fast rule is no comedy podcasts allowed

anyway some fun things to talk about might be

- the DSA's electoral strategy plank and where it stands (or should stand) in relation to other strategies, also the challenges presented by growing 4-fold in the space of a year
- Corbyn's Labour and its prospects for forming government and/or its ability to potentially productively disrupt the Brexiting "process" (such as it is)
- wtf is happening with the Canadian left
- wtf is happening in other places

oh and
- talk about what orgs yr involved with, if any!

Olympia WA just elected a fierce and principled homeless advocate, running for office for the first time, to the city council. She beat the incumbent, a real estate developer. This is fantastic news for a small city with an escalating housing crisis.

That is v cool! I was just reading about that.

On the more theoretical end, here's a centrist tackling the Corey Robin book on the history of conservative pols/thinkers

http://theweek.com/articles/735841/lefts-myopic-obsession-fairness

in the panel kingfish posted in the chapo thread Chibber argues that fascism only succeeds when there isn't a viable leftist alternative and that the right-wing drift in the West was a temporary phenomenon that is now receding as options like corbyn/sanders become more viable. i'm not so sure how that comports w/ his theory of ww2 (where he argues precisely the opposite - that the strength of the left is what led capital to throw its lot in with fascism) - these two ideas seem to be in tension. maybe he's just pushing for a middle ground - a left powerful enough to be a viable alternative to fascism for the downtrodden, and he's not too worried about labor challenging capital anytime soon since we're a long way off from another dictatorship of the proletariat.

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

- wtf is happening with the Canadian left

Would appreciate any kind of discussion on this, even pointers to good news/commentary sources.

idk how accurate this is but I don't think this is so much a left-wing "drift" as much as it is 18-35 year olds in this country realizing what happens when they don't vote

slash realizing they have no viable economic future under the current order

https://elizabethirreverent.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/slash_by_bigjet.jpg

this moral foundations stuff that is deployed like a trump card in that damon linker article (& elsewhere) could do with some more discussion

CR definitely took notice of the review and will probably provide a rebuttal of some kind, I feel a bit out of my depth as I haven't read The Reactionary Mind

hate reading a whole book so i can pull it apart is where i draw the line

wrt haidt i mean

there's a pun in there somewhere

re: the Cdn left, my current summary would be "we're all watching to see what Jagmeet inevitably waffles on" and that our general terminal smugness is our biggest impediment. I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

fwiw that article above is essentially my complaint about CR's book. it smooths out an awful lot of [to my mind] legitimate concerns of conservatism in order to make a moral argument. and esp a moral argument that is easily made in practically any situation - there is no ideology where you cannot find losers of the ideology being oppressed. iow there's no exclusively liberatory ideology cf the great Leftist States of the 20th century.

i just realized tho why are we talking about conservatism itt?

but the degree of inequality does vary. the fact that something can't be completely eliminated is no argument against reducing it

what i meant is that one could v easily make the argument that the left is about oppression and inequality and you can see bc every time there's a communist state they end up killing millions of ppl through the rigid enforcement of dogma. the question is always who is oppressing whom. now rightly you could argue that soviet + chinese communism should not be how we measure the motivations underlining leftism but then you can do the same for conservatism. my point is just that if you're looking to defame your political opponents on oppression grounds you'll have plenty of fodder no matter your ideology.

ha, i think real world examples are salient, but for what they tell you about power rather than what they tell you about ideology

I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

Do you mean the stuff about Bronfman's offshore accounts? Was JT or the LPC directly implicated?

I imagine Canada will probably remain a country of milquetoast centrist liberalism for a while. We never drifted as far right as some of our allies and will probably not experience as intense of a left-wing backlash?

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens). I'm eager to see more advocacy for things like a green energy transition Crown corporation, socialized finance options, socialized pharma care coverage, someone actually standing against more pipelines. In a minority govt situation, this Liberal govt might be more push-able than the last one.

An NDP provincial government may well be likely in SK, I think?

challops: soviet + chinese communism is actually right-wing

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens).

I (along with all the Marxist goons I roll w/) voted for Ashton even though she was disappointing on QC, hoping she remains a prominent voice for the party going forward. I really got the feeling she pushed the overall tenor of the leadership race significantly left.

Everything is an angry centrist overreaction to the last shit

Maybe this belongs more on the CDN politics thread, but curious to hear what other leftists/Canadians on this thread think.

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

I know this way of thinking can lead to a slippery slope, but I wonder if his leadership of the party might help - to some degree - galvanize (or at least sustain some forward momentum for) the NDP in a way that an Ashton, Angus or Caron victory may have?

I voted for Ashton but I don't think her platform would have been electorally successful, if I'm honest. But I am of the pessimistic view that liberal centrism is the best we can expect from a federal government in Canada and so the federal NDP can best function as a sort of parliamentary pressure group.

Two huge problems for left politics in Canada: the national dependence on oil leads to a situation in which a large proportion of the public view the oil patch as a sacred cow which precludes widespread popularity for environmentalism which must be a pillar for any left-wing movement; another important part of any left movement in canada must be indigenous rights, decolonization, reconciliation. these ideas are given plenty of lip service in mainstream canadian discourse but anything that actually threatens entrenched interests or even, you know, calls a spade a spade - wrt the opprobrium that comes from many corners the second someone uses the words "settler colonialism" or "genocide" etc. - is anathema to a large proportion of the canadian population.

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

my concern is that his platform may not wind up distinct enough from the Libs for a significant number of voters to even consider jumping ship

and JiV otm, Canada is much more backwards than the US on these issues in some respects

On oil, possibly. I don't agree that the US is more progressive on aboriginal issues. Afaict, these barely even register as an issue on the national level in the US.

Simon, that's totally a fair point, though I also wonder if Singh will be able to bring some amount of first-time voters to the NDP (I doubt it will be massive, but stil...) or people who had formerly been unaffiliated with any party. He may also be appealing to culturally conservative immigrant groups who vote PC (to generalize) and win over more votes.

Jim, yes, both are also two massive problems that any progressive force will have to reckon with and, in the near future, am not sure how they will be able to reconcile.

Young/new voters are definitely where I'd be focusing on trying to mobilize if I were an NDP strategist, yeah.

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/juergen-habermas-on-the-european-vision-of-emmanuel-macron-a-1174721.html

Fun with (American) history:

https://soundcloud.com/deadpundits/ep-34-the-democratic-party-the-left-w-adam-hilton

Dead Pundits Society - Ep. 34: The Democratic Party & the Left w/ Adam Hilton

Adam Hilton, visiting lecturer in Politics at Mount Holyoke College, is on the show to talk about the history of the Democratic Party and its interaction with the left. Can the Democratic Party be used as an instrument of socialist advance? And what is the nature of the Democratic Party, anyway? Tune in to find out.

Find some of Adam's writings here:
-"Bernie and the Search for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/06/bernie-president-unions-mcgovern
-"Searching for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-new-politics-democratic-party-realignment-primary

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

He seems to be using Macron as a stick to beat the German political establishment with. They need beating, but get a better stick.

thanks for that kingfish, SPD is a reliably good cast even if I find the main guy mysteriously grating

Proctor likes to stir shit for better or for worse but I enjoy his guests most of the time

One of the socialist candidates I can vote for in municipal elections later this month is named Charisma Fries. I might vote for her just for that reason. I will probably just vote for the party, though.

Sounds like the name of one of the bands on scott's Leftover College Radio Station Indie Rock Records thread

Latin America seen as part of the West? I think that's where the latest drift began. Different forms of a populist left to varying degrees in Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil and so on. Its under tension - and in Brazil its collapsed to quite a dangerous situation for the environment..

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

― Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Due to Brexit capital flight could happen anyway. Business is practically telling Labour they could put up with a erm diminished influence and profits as long as Brexit is the softer option (access to the single market). That's an opening, of sorts, to bring more things to the forefront and keep those ppl on their toes.

skip to about 13:30 in the latest Trillbilly Workers' Party for a very good RL Stephens segment on DSA/American left stuff, particularly the old race/class question

https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/episode-35-who-are-we-w-special-guest-rl-stephens

or 18:30ish if you're feeling impatient

this is all pretty dope imho

Good thread of what DSA has been up to this week. https://t.co/0mv1eo63k0

— Sturgeon's Law (@Sturgeons_Law) November 13, 2017

it's a juicy review with a lot of striking anecdotes that starts to paint a picture of what's really going on with this stuff. it does not like the books very much.

i'm also trending more anarchist lately in my political orientation, the little of it i have anyway
This has been my direction as well, antiwar above everything else

ha jacob did you read the rest of that post

I did and I'm still thinking about it. I'd like to read the book.

Leninism is the future

#Boric #Presidente #Chile 🙏🙏🙏 pic.twitter.com/zm5M5UY7DZ

— Pedro Pascal he/him (@PedroPascal1) November 23, 2021

boric,,,hello

Honduras elects democratic socialist as first female president, unseating conservative ruling party

Hillary Clinton in shambles

If you need a good excuse to cry, here you go https://t.co/6CzBd2zizS

— Carter Moon (@CarterDMoon) December 9, 2021

Nice

It's been called by Chilean media:

Gabriel Boric will be Chile's next president. pic.twitter.com/3NYB00iSOc

— Taniel (@Taniel) December 19, 2021

I've always liked Pablo Pascal as an actor and he publicly supported Boric and is Allende's great nephew.

based

Mind-blowing scenes in Santiago, where hundreds of thousands have flocked onto the streets to celebrate Gabriel Boric's victory pic.twitter.com/uirvG1mVBg

— John Bartlett (@jwbartlett92) December 20, 2021

🇨🇱 Y bien si votaron los chilenos. Gabriel Boric, nuevo presidente de Chile. #compol pic.twitter.com/EzH3Lkvr39

— Sergio Paz (@sergiopazc) December 19, 2021

The exact moment the German health minister became legendary on philosophy Twitter pic.twitter.com/R4HgWIohMs

— Anthony Ballas (@tonyjballas) January 27, 2022

holy shit

sorry, that just connected a lot of dots for me

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/31/portugal-general-election-pm-antonio-costa-wins-surprise-outright-majority

it really grates on me to see Starmer congratulating the Portuguese centre-left social democrats of the type who are not welcome anywhere near his fucking Labour party.

Not worth getting angry about calz, the PS are p much melts and Costa a blatant careerist.

Entirely one for the right-wing drift, I'm afraid: Chega (actual fascists) and Iniciativa Liberal (free market fundamentalists) surpassed the BE (Leftist Block) and the communists for the first time, votes that would've gone to the left instead ended up at the PS because of polls suggesting that the centre left and centre right were neck to neck, which turned out to be total bullshit. PS now has no pressure whatsoever to swerve left and the amount of virulent racist scum MPs has moved from one to eleven.

Really wish that anglos (not Tom in this thread, to be clear) would stop shooting off rockets every time a party with "socialist" or "social democrat" in its name triumphs in Europe.

ah right, I thought they were amongst the better class of Euro-melts but now I think I recall you posting before that they aren't any good.

yeah I mean better than Starmer labour of course but that's not the highest ceiling

tbh I was taking a shot in the dark there, I'm not in the least surprised to find out they're not very left.

Yeah, as I said, the main story here really is the fringe right parties surpassing the left for the first time. A party that openly advocates for the forced sterilization of paedophiles now the third largest political power in the country, not great.

Ajamu Baraka on BPM right now, talking Ukraine and domestic matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLn45wQ2Beo

“Leftism” is when my opinions somehow always coincidentally align with the geo-political agenda of the world’s premier exporter of fascism

.. the us?

Well, sure, since half the politicians in the US are openly in cahoots with Russia. But those aren’t the politicians that guys like the dude in the video ever object to.

Do you check under the bed for the Red Menace before you go to bed?

You bring up a good point. Why would people on the left behave like old-school tankies when Russia isn’t even nominally communist anymore?

lol yeah dude not wanting another US military intervention is def behaving like an old school tankie, good luck with that

Always incredible when Americans on ilx mistake the acts of America in its own interests as neutral and apolitical.

You, an old-school tankie: I don’t think war is in the interests of civilians on either side of the border
Me, a shrewd political commentator: uhhhhhh you know the Soviet Union broke up right, COMЯ ADE?!

lol

also libs who think fascism is just the republican party and not like the entire us imperial project are idiotic

“Leftism” is when my opinions somehow always coincidentally align with the geo-political agenda of the world’s premier exporter of fascism

Gunna go out on a limb and say there’s one country in particular that is funding and arming the Azov Battalion and you’ll never guess who it is!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Gabriel_Boric_Font_%282018%29.jpg/512px-Gabriel_Boric_Font_%282018%29.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Retrato_Oficial_Presidente_Boric_Font.jpg

rowr

I have no idea whether this new government is left or not but it's one less right wing populist wanker in power.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/opposition-slovenian-liberal-party-on-course-for-landslide-win-say-exit-polls

One thing that got lost in the (valid) panic over Le Pen is that Melenchon only got 1,5% less votes than her, it could've easily been a Macron vs Melenchon run-off.

My wife was actually dreading a Le Pen vs Melenchon run-off because she thinks that in that scenario Macron voters would go for Le Pen.

Nice chat happening today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpLX8T6phOQ

A significant shift via the @FoxNews national poll:

Around this time in the Obama presidency, voters said by a +10 margin that government was "doing too much"

Today voters say +17 that government "should do more" pic.twitter.com/VLcE89pp8a

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) September 15, 2022

swifties developing class consciousness bc they couldn’t get tickets is my favorite tiktok trend pic.twitter.com/SVhSSmMoyZ

— reversecowgirl69 (@botticellibimbo) November 17, 2022

China Miéville talking right now for a Haymarket event and covering a lot of Q&A about his book on the Manifesto and organizing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKwxKR5-QKU

I was quite surprised to see this statement from this person. I haven't followed her work but I think she used to work with socialist writers and publishers. I have a Dawn Foster book for which she wrote a foreword. Now she's speaking at the National Conservatism event and talking about the need to 'seek God'? Surprised.

We need to seek God in each other. We're in a spiritual (and a material) crisis. But it's not over! Can't help but agree with Tim Stanley at #NatCon.

— Nina Power (@Nina_Compact) May 16, 2023

If I remember correctly, she said if she was in the US she would have voted for Trump, with him being the antiwar candidate

power used to be on the left, yes, but went fascist around 2018-2019. she did a version of the usual routine - posted a bunch of transphobic shit on facebook (then it was the typical radfem ostensibly-from-the-left sort of stuff) then a year later she was paling around with outright fascists and denouncing feminism, then another year later she'd become a regular columnist for the telegraph churning out anti-woke nonsense.

now she's helping run compact, which basically advocates for fascism with a welfare state - it's staffed by a bunch of tradcaths and reactionary ex-leftists, a lot of the usual suspects.

"power used to be on the left, yes, but went fascist around 2018-2019"

Mark Fisher (11 July 1968 – 13 January 2017)

Some people on ilx are closer than I was but I think in NP's case her L to R journey was complicated by a personal breakdown and significant issues with alcohol etc. I think her recovery was aided by a quasi-fascist edgelord so the personal is v mixed up with the usual stereotypes.