Is the West Experiencing a Left-Wing Drift? (the international left politics activism, news, and strategy thread)

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hottt off the DSA's local wins a couple of days ago, here's a place to discuss current left movements and orgs, ponder strategy and all that fun stuff. not gonna police/define what "left" means too rigidly except to say there's already a democratic party thread

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:44 (one year ago) Permalink

I guess the only hard-and-fast rule is no comedy podcasts allowed

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:49 (one year ago) Permalink

anyway some fun things to talk about might be

- the DSA's electoral strategy plank and where it stands (or should stand) in relation to other strategies, also the challenges presented by growing 4-fold in the space of a year
- Corbyn's Labour and its prospects for forming government and/or its ability to potentially productively disrupt the Brexiting "process" (such as it is)
- wtf is happening with the Canadian left
- wtf is happening in other places

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:57 (one year ago) Permalink

oh and
- talk about what orgs yr involved with, if any!

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Olympia WA just elected a fierce and principled homeless advocate, running for office for the first time, to the city council. She beat the incumbent, a real estate developer. This is fantastic news for a small city with an escalating housing crisis.

sciatica, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:03 (one year ago) Permalink

That is v cool! I was just reading about that.

On the more theoretical end, here's a centrist tackling the Corey Robin book on the history of conservative pols/thinkers

http://theweek.com/articles/735841/lefts-myopic-obsession-fairness

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:05 (one year ago) Permalink

in the panel kingfish posted in the chapo thread Chibber argues that fascism only succeeds when there isn't a viable leftist alternative and that the right-wing drift in the West was a temporary phenomenon that is now receding as options like corbyn/sanders become more viable. i'm not so sure how that comports w/ his theory of ww2 (where he argues precisely the opposite - that the strength of the left is what led capital to throw its lot in with fascism) - these two ideas seem to be in tension. maybe he's just pushing for a middle ground - a left powerful enough to be a viable alternative to fascism for the downtrodden, and he's not too worried about labor challenging capital anytime soon since we're a long way off from another dictatorship of the proletariat.

Mordy, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:07 (one year ago) Permalink

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:09 (one year ago) Permalink

- wtf is happening with the Canadian left

Would appreciate any kind of discussion on this, even pointers to good news/commentary sources.

jmm, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:15 (one year ago) Permalink

idk how accurate this is but I don't think this is so much a left-wing "drift" as much as it is 18-35 year olds in this country realizing what happens when they don't vote

frogbs, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

slash realizing they have no viable economic future under the current order

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

this moral foundations stuff that is deployed like a trump card in that damon linker article (& elsewhere) could do with some more discussion

ogmor, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:38 (one year ago) Permalink

CR definitely took notice of the review and will probably provide a rebuttal of some kind, I feel a bit out of my depth as I haven't read The Reactionary Mind

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:41 (one year ago) Permalink

hate reading a whole book so i can pull it apart is where i draw the line

ogmor, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:46 (one year ago) Permalink

wrt haidt i mean

ogmor, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:46 (one year ago) Permalink

there's a pun in there somewhere

imago, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:48 (one year ago) Permalink

re: the Cdn left, my current summary would be "we're all watching to see what Jagmeet inevitably waffles on" and that our general terminal smugness is our biggest impediment. I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:49 (one year ago) Permalink

fwiw that article above is essentially my complaint about CR's book. it smooths out an awful lot of [to my mind] legitimate concerns of conservatism in order to make a moral argument. and esp a moral argument that is easily made in practically any situation - there is no ideology where you cannot find losers of the ideology being oppressed. iow there's no exclusively liberatory ideology cf the great Leftist States of the 20th century.

Mordy, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:57 (one year ago) Permalink

i just realized tho why are we talking about conservatism itt?

Mordy, Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:01 (one year ago) Permalink

but the degree of inequality does vary. the fact that something can't be completely eliminated is no argument against reducing it

ogmor, Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

what i meant is that one could v easily make the argument that the left is about oppression and inequality and you can see bc every time there's a communist state they end up killing millions of ppl through the rigid enforcement of dogma. the question is always who is oppressing whom. now rightly you could argue that soviet + chinese communism should not be how we measure the motivations underlining leftism but then you can do the same for conservatism. my point is just that if you're looking to defame your political opponents on oppression grounds you'll have plenty of fodder no matter your ideology.

Mordy, Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

ha, i think real world examples are salient, but for what they tell you about power rather than what they tell you about ideology

ogmor, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:05 (one year ago) Permalink

I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

Do you mean the stuff about Bronfman's offshore accounts? Was JT or the LPC directly implicated?

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I imagine Canada will probably remain a country of milquetoast centrist liberalism for a while. We never drifted as far right as some of our allies and will probably not experience as intense of a left-wing backlash?

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:24 (one year ago) Permalink

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens). I'm eager to see more advocacy for things like a green energy transition Crown corporation, socialized finance options, socialized pharma care coverage, someone actually standing against more pipelines. In a minority govt situation, this Liberal govt might be more push-able than the last one.

An NDP provincial government may well be likely in SK, I think?

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:30 (one year ago) Permalink

challops: soviet + chinese communism is actually right-wing

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:32 (one year ago) Permalink

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens).

I (along with all the Marxist goons I roll w/) voted for Ashton even though she was disappointing on QC, hoping she remains a prominent voice for the party going forward. I really got the feeling she pushed the overall tenor of the leadership race significantly left.

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Everything is an angry centrist overreaction to the last shit

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Maybe this belongs more on the CDN politics thread, but curious to hear what other leftists/Canadians on this thread think.

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

I know this way of thinking can lead to a slippery slope, but I wonder if his leadership of the party might help - to some degree - galvanize (or at least sustain some forward momentum for) the NDP in a way that an Ashton, Angus or Caron victory may have?

Federico Boswarlos, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I voted for Ashton but I don't think her platform would have been electorally successful, if I'm honest. But I am of the pessimistic view that liberal centrism is the best we can expect from a federal government in Canada and so the federal NDP can best function as a sort of parliamentary pressure group.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Two huge problems for left politics in Canada: the national dependence on oil leads to a situation in which a large proportion of the public view the oil patch as a sacred cow which precludes widespread popularity for environmentalism which must be a pillar for any left-wing movement; another important part of any left movement in canada must be indigenous rights, decolonization, reconciliation. these ideas are given plenty of lip service in mainstream canadian discourse but anything that actually threatens entrenched interests or even, you know, calls a spade a spade - wrt the opprobrium that comes from many corners the second someone uses the words "settler colonialism" or "genocide" etc. - is anathema to a large proportion of the canadian population.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:13 (one year ago) Permalink

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

my concern is that his platform may not wind up distinct enough from the Libs for a significant number of voters to even consider jumping ship

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

and JiV otm, Canada is much more backwards than the US on these issues in some respects

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

On oil, possibly. I don't agree that the US is more progressive on aboriginal issues. Afaict, these barely even register as an issue on the national level in the US.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Simon, that's totally a fair point, though I also wonder if Singh will be able to bring some amount of first-time voters to the NDP (I doubt it will be massive, but stil...) or people who had formerly been unaffiliated with any party. He may also be appealing to culturally conservative immigrant groups who vote PC (to generalize) and win over more votes.

Jim, yes, both are also two massive problems that any progressive force will have to reckon with and, in the near future, am not sure how they will be able to reconcile.

Federico Boswarlos, Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Young/new voters are definitely where I'd be focusing on trying to mobilize if I were an NDP strategist, yeah.

Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/juergen-habermas-on-the-european-vision-of-emmanuel-macron-a-1174721.html

Federico Boswarlos, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Fun with (American) history:

https://soundcloud.com/deadpundits/ep-34-the-democratic-party-the-left-w-adam-hilton

Dead Pundits Society - Ep. 34: The Democratic Party & the Left w/ Adam Hilton

Adam Hilton, visiting lecturer in Politics at Mount Holyoke College, is on the show to talk about the history of the Democratic Party and its interaction with the left. Can the Democratic Party be used as an instrument of socialist advance? And what is the nature of the Democratic Party, anyway? Tune in to find out.

Find some of Adam's writings here:
-"Bernie and the Search for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/06/bernie-president-unions-mcgovern
-"Searching for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-new-politics-democratic-party-realignment-primary

Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Friday, 10 November 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

He seems to be using Macron as a stick to beat the German political establishment with. They need beating, but get a better stick.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 10 November 2017 19:28 (one year ago) Permalink

thanks for that kingfish, SPD is a reliably good cast even if I find the main guy mysteriously grating

Simon H., Friday, 10 November 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Proctor likes to stir shit for better or for worse but I enjoy his guests most of the time

Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Friday, 10 November 2017 22:42 (one year ago) Permalink

One of the socialist candidates I can vote for in municipal elections later this month is named Charisma Fries. I might vote for her just for that reason. I will probably just vote for the party, though.

Frederik B, Friday, 10 November 2017 22:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Sounds like the name of one of the bands on scott's Leftover College Radio Station Indie Rock Records thread

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Friday, 10 November 2017 23:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Latin America seen as part of the West? I think that's where the latest drift began. Different forms of a populist left to varying degrees in Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil and so on. Its under tension - and in Brazil its collapsed to quite a dangerous situation for the environment..

xyzzzz__, Friday, 10 November 2017 23:32 (one year ago) Permalink

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

― Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Due to Brexit capital flight could happen anyway. Business is practically telling Labour they could put up with a erm diminished influence and profits as long as Brexit is the softer option (access to the single market). That's an opening, of sorts, to bring more things to the forefront and keep those ppl on their toes.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 10 November 2017 23:36 (one year ago) Permalink

skip to about 13:30 in the latest Trillbilly Workers' Party for a very good RL Stephens segment on DSA/American left stuff, particularly the old race/class question

https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/episode-35-who-are-we-w-special-guest-rl-stephens

Simon H., Saturday, 11 November 2017 03:24 (one year ago) Permalink

or 18:30ish if you're feeling impatient

Simon H., Saturday, 11 November 2017 03:29 (one year ago) Permalink

this is all pretty dope imho

Good thread of what DSA has been up to this week. https://t.co/0mv1eo63k0

— Sturgeon's Law (@Sturgeons_Law) November 13, 2017

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 04:53 (one year ago) Permalink

could someone break down the "leaked DSA secret plan" fracas that happened a few days ago?

― resident hack (Simon H.), Wednesday, January 16, 2019 9:51 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so far as i can tell some internal documents from the momentum clique leaked. in these docs they're open that the M4A canvassing they've been driving has essentially been designed as a bait and switch actually intended to build capacity to power a bernie canvassing adjunct. they reply that a bernie presidency is a necessary condition for M4A. no one besides them, so far as i can tell, thinks that's true.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 January 2019 22:59 (three months ago) Permalink

so far as i can tell

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 January 2019 22:59 (three months ago) Permalink

thanks HOOS. sounds....about right, tbh

resident hack (Simon H.), Thursday, 17 January 2019 23:04 (three months ago) Permalink

this is.....very far from great, and mcelwee does not come off well

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-young-lefts-anti-capitalist-manifesto/

resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:33 (two months ago) Permalink

It was I think Brendan O'Connor who tweeted that if you think the intellectual salon of the anticapitalist left is a media & pol friendly happy hour in Brooklyn, you're telling on yourself

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:06 (two months ago) Permalink

I liked a lot of what McElwee was saying - probably surprising no one - but this is the part that concerns me:

if three years from now Data for Progress has not enacted its vision, has not exercised itself upon the world and its ideas on the world, then we will have failed and we should stop doing this.”

Wasn’t that self-imposed timeline a little quick for broad political change to happen, I asked.

“We’re all going to fucking die of climate change,” McElwee shot back. “We have to accelerate, accelerate, accelerate.”

There's still a lot of people who would love to die of climate change in a hundred years, instead of being shot by police, dying of hunger, etc, and it's concerning if people are going to go away if they don't get their way in three years.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 11:22 (two months ago) Permalink

Calling yourself an "Overton window mover" is some straight up delusions of grandeur shit.

Unrelated, but if you're taking the pulse of the new US left and consulting Paul Krugman but no one from (for example) the major chunk of DSA not interested in reforming the Dems, that's pretty fucking weak imho

resident hack (Simon H.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 11:31 (two months ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure she's not including Krugman as being among the new US left. Might have overlooked that connection, but I don't think it's there.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:08 (two months ago) Permalink

And the fact that Krugman is thinking about plans to nationalize 25% of the economy is a pretty great indication of the impact the new left has had, imo.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:09 (two months ago) Permalink

i sorta get grifter vibes from McElwee, but he's followed by some good people not that necessarily means anything

anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:12 (two months ago) Permalink

I've seen ppl outright call him a grifter but imo that term implies malice/forethought, imo he's just an activist who got a little media + politician love and let it get to his head (inadvertently minimizing the work of a hell of a lot of other people while he's at it)

and no the piece doesn't lump in Krugman with them, it does something even more annoying and turns to him to say "hmm maybe the mainstream political spectrum IS too limited huh" as though that's not something he could have started doing something about a long fuckin' time ago if he really cared that much about it, and as if tons of ppl haven't been screaming this at the NYT and every other mainstream outlet about their biases for a million years

resident hack (Simon H.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:40 (two months ago) Permalink

Yeah, exactly. Which is why it's such a good example to show how the new left has succeeded where others has failed?

Frederik B, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:56 (two months ago) Permalink

idk I just don't think persuading Krugman of the value of our ideas is a super useful measurement of impact

resident hack (Simon H.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 12:59 (two months ago) Permalink

Fair enough. I do.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 13:00 (two months ago) Permalink

AFA International President Sara Nelson accepted the 2019 AFL-CIO MLK Drum Major for Justice Award, with a call to conference activists from across the Labor Movement to talk with their union leadership about conducting a General Strike to end the Government Shutdown.

look i'm corny as fuck but i teared up at this:

Now listen to me… We can end this Shutdown together.

Federal sector unions have their hands full caring for the 800,000 federal workers who are at the tip of the spear. Some would say the answer is for them to walk off the job. I say, “what are you willing to do? Their destiny IS tied up with our destiny – and they don’t even have time to ask us for help. Don’t wait for an invitation. Get engaged, join or plan a rally, get on a picket line, organize sit-ins at lawmakers’ offices.

Almost a million workers are locked out or being forced to work without pay. Others are going to work when our workspace is increasingly unsafe. What is the Labor Movement waiting for?

Go back with the Fierce Urgency of NOW to talk with your Locals and International unions about all workers joining together - To End this Shutdown with a General Strike.

We can do this. Together. Si se puede. Every gender, race, culture, and creed. The American Labor Movement. We have the power.

https://www.afacwa.org/fierce_urgency_of_now

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 24 January 2019 02:48 (two months ago) Permalink

thank you. i emailed my AFT rep about it. who to email at AFL-CIO?

the late great, Thursday, 24 January 2019 04:58 (two months ago) Permalink

hell yeah

resident hack (Simon H.), Thursday, 24 January 2019 05:07 (two months ago) Permalink

also i would like to lol @ the bureacratically oriented invitation to "conference activists from across the Labor Movement to talk with their union leadership about conducting a General Strike"

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 24 January 2019 19:26 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

The (literal) money quote from Bill De Blasio in this interview; "If you're not willing to say we need to tax the wealthy more, you're not a part of the Democratic Party anymore." https://t.co/kFSg0rpljE

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) February 12, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 23:33 (two months ago) Permalink

haven't listened to this yet but will later.

venerable marxist prof emeritus Robert Brenner talks about the US Economy on Jacobin Radio with Suzi Weissman

https://www.blubrry.com/jacobin/41771287/robert-brenner-on-the-state-of-the-economy/

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 19:44 (two months ago) Permalink

nice

Not sure where to slot this exactly, but Tim Faust has a new M4A primer

https://splinternews.com/the-only-guide-to-medicare-for-all-that-you-will-ever-n-1832594853

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:44 (two months ago) Permalink

that link is clarifying a ton of stuff for me, simon, thank you.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 14 February 2019 21:22 (two months ago) Permalink

Siri, show me the Overton Window moving: https://t.co/KD0dWlIvKh

— Michael T Sweeney (@mtsw) February 16, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 17 February 2019 19:27 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

is there a good explainer of the ADOS movement/hashtag anywhere? google is failing me

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Monday, 4 March 2019 16:45 (one month ago) Permalink

America Dunks On Sunken?

moose; squirrel (silby), Monday, 4 March 2019 17:12 (one month ago) Permalink

american descendants of slaves. reparations. can't find much about it from a cursory search

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 4 March 2019 18:25 (one month ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Oh no anything but that

Just received approval from the House for the formation of the Anti-Socialism Caucus. This caucus will defend individual liberty & free markets and highlight the dark history of socialism.

— Rep. Chris Stewart (@RepChrisStewart) April 3, 2019

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 4 April 2019 00:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

nice corrective to the NYMag piece on Brooklyn socialists, interviewing DSA folks in Iowa

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/04/democratic-socialism-surging-iowa-ahead-2020/586441/

Also, a bunch of socialists won election to city council in Chicago:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/democratic-socialists-america-city-council-dsa-rodriguez-sanchez/

Simon H., Friday, 5 April 2019 13:53 (one week ago) Permalink

The 2018 GSS was just released and there's some big news. Those of "no religion" (23.1%) are statistically the same size as evangelicals (22.8%). There was also a small resurgence of mainline Protestants, while Catholics are down 3% in the last four years. pic.twitter.com/uiyDSe7M6f

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) March 20, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 03:25 (one week ago) Permalink

glad to see the surge in "no religion"

Dan S, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 03:31 (one week ago) Permalink

Other than evangelicals, who track very closely to anti-abortion politics, I'm not sure whether any of the other religious categories called out in that survey correlate very closely to right or left wing politics.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 03:35 (one week ago) Permalink

sure. and the surge in "no religion" predates the more recent left wing drift we're talking about on this thread as i understand it.

but the size/progress of this trend was news to me, and pretty much guarantees a left/center drift assuming your defn of left/center includes social attitudes (perhaps a little quaint these days).

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 05:05 (one week ago) Permalink

There Is A Spectre Haunting My Ass

Simon H., Thursday, 11 April 2019 13:43 (one week ago) Permalink

Lack of shirtless, ripped Marx is truly disappointing.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 11 April 2019 13:44 (one week ago) Permalink

There Is A Spectre Haunting My Ass

― Simon H., Thursday, April 11, 2019 3:43 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lmao

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 11 April 2019 13:45 (one week ago) Permalink

seize the means of production and do 100 reps with it

repeat until ripped

arli$$ and bible black (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 11 April 2019 13:46 (one week ago) Permalink

Conquested In The Butt By My Billionaire Anthropomorphic Loaf Of Bread

they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boot Edge Edge" (Will M.), Thursday, 11 April 2019 15:57 (one week ago) Permalink

I wish people would understand how counterproductive it is to deny or downplay this stuff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-russian-effort-to-target-sanders-supporters--and-help-elect-trump/2019/04/11/741d7308-5576-11e9-8ef3-fbd41a2ce4d5_story.html

"Russian employees at the Internet Research Agency were given a document explaining how to influence the U.S. election. The workers were told to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them),” according to Mueller’s indictment of the Russians."

Dan I., Friday, 12 April 2019 14:51 (six days ago) Permalink

On the denial/downplaying side (I'm paywalled for WaPo atm so can't assess one vs the other)

https://www.carlbeijer.com/2019/04/the-flimsy-case-for-russias-role-in.html

Simon H., Friday, 12 April 2019 14:59 (six days ago) Permalink

I agree that the efficacy is impossible to fully gauge. After Warren, I think Bernie's the best 2020 candidate out there, and I think it's going to be really interesting to see what happens if it starts to look like he's going to win the nomination. I suspect there will be an apparent collapse of his support among the far left--all of a sudden people will be taking Gravel's "joke" candidacy very seriously, and saying that Bernie's a capitalist sell-out for reasons X, Y, and Z, and so they would never be willing to vote for him.

Dan I., Friday, 12 April 2019 15:26 (six days ago) Permalink

And I think it's maladaptive to not take seriously the idea that shifts like that might not be organic.

Dan I., Friday, 12 April 2019 15:28 (six days ago) Permalink

I don't foresee that happening at all, even if Gravel makes it to the debate stage and manages to not sound like a 90-year-old quack. (Two big Ifs.) He hasn't even managed the 65k donation threshold yet AFAIK. The biggest threat to Sanders is Warren, who's been much more consistent in offering substantive legislation, but she hasn't been picking up support yet.

Simon H., Friday, 12 April 2019 15:31 (six days ago) Permalink

The gravel thing is just an example of an astroturfed message that the Left is more vulnerable to if they deny the possibility of being subjected to propaganda. It could just as easily be a heavy push on the "change never happens at the ballot box" message or any number of other things.

Dan I., Friday, 12 April 2019 15:38 (six days ago) Permalink

I could imagine Bernie's support eroding if he seems poised to capture the nomination and honestly if I were a Bernie supporter (I'm not - he's near the bottom of my list of preferred candidates) I'd be concerned about him getting the nomination. He's a great protest candidate but seems like a potential disaster for the left as an actual nominee or President (whereas Warren who is at the top of my list I think could actually make good on the left-wing agenda).

Mordy, Friday, 12 April 2019 15:40 (six days ago) Permalink

Ben Burgis went on Dave Smith’s show yesterday, and it was a rare case when you have an actual Marxist Professor debating an actual AnCap on Taxation as Theft. It goes more congenial than one would expect.

https://youtu.be/nqbglf3KRlo

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 12 April 2019 21:04 (six days ago) Permalink

Why the attack on Highlander matters:

https://www.thenation.com/article/highlander-attack-arson-racism/

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 13 April 2019 21:31 (five days ago) Permalink


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