Hmmmm. Republicans think people will come around to their tax plan...
In pushing so hard, Republicans are betting they can sell this plan to the skeptical public once the legislation is signed into law by President Trump and workers see a boost in take-home pay. They are not dismissive of the polling, but they believe they can make the legislation popular enough next year to save their congressional majorities in the midterm elections. ...Republicans can take some solace in that groundswell of ACA support, showing how the public can warm up to previously unpopular laws. The question for Republicans is whether, if they pass their tax plan, they can convince the public that it was a good thing to do in time for next year’s elections...Ryan is adamant that, once the bill is signed into law, voters will like what they see.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/despite-skeptical-public-gop-pushing-ahead-on-tax-cut-plan/2017/11/25/d81ddd7c-d145-11e7-81bc-c55a220c8cbe_story.html?utm_term=.b0983e8236ae
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 30 November 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
Why would an empty bucket affect the functionality of a t-shirt cannon?
xps
― Evan, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:03 (six years ago) link
workers see a boost in take-home pay
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:03 (six years ago) link
and workers see a boost in take-home pay.
by all accounts (except GOP's obv).... this won't actually happen for most people
― marcos, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:03 (six years ago) link
lol bizarro otm
Republicans can take some solace in that groundswell of ACA support, showing how the public can warm up to previously unpopular laws.
lol except that the ACA provides something and this tax bill is taking away something
― marcos, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:04 (six years ago) link
Hmmmm. Republicans think people will come around to their tax plan...In pushing so hard, Republicans are betting they can sell this plan to the skeptical public once the legislation is signed into law by President Trump and workers see a boost in take-home pay. They are not dismissive of the polling, but they believe they can make the legislation popular enough next year to save their congressional majorities in the midterm elections. ...Republicans can take some solace in that groundswell of ACA support, showing how the public can warm up to previously unpopular laws. The question for Republicans is whether, if they pass their tax plan, they can convince the public that it was a good thing to do in time for next year’s elections...Ryan is adamant that, once the bill is signed into law, voters will like what they see.https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/despite-skeptical-public-gop-pushing-ahead-on-tax-cut-plan/2017/11/25/d81ddd7c-d145-11e7-81bc-c55a220c8cbe_story.html?utm_term=.b0983e8236ae― curmudgeon, Thursday, November 30, 2017 5:59 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― curmudgeon, Thursday, November 30, 2017 5:59 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
nobody can go back as for as 2004 to see this shit never happened and all the corporations did was stock buybacks and increase dividends for shareholders
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link
yeah wasn’t there a story last week about some cabinet member asking a room full of ceos how many of them would be reinvesting their tax breaks to create jobs and was answered by the sound of quietly shuffling feet and a couple of muffled coughs
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
Just had breakfast with a few business owners. They both said if tax bill passes they will hire 20-30 new people as soon as the new year starts Let's get this thing passed, Senate!— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) November 30, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:20 (six years ago) link
wow that’s like 90 new jobs, my skepticism has evaporated
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
Lol we are already essentially at full employment
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:25 (six years ago) link
nowhere to go but down
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
so, this Tillerson exit strategy was hatched by ... Kelly? I thought Kelly and Tillerson and Mattis had a "suicide pact" lol
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
clearly more of a murder-suicide deal
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
First, you pass the law, so it is a done deal. Then you sell it to the public by claiming that it will bring them amazing future benefits. Because the future cannot be inspected to verify or falsify the claims, the media will dutifully report your claims, since these are the only reportable facts in sight. People will take sides on the veracity of the claims, according to their tribal identity.
By the time the future arrives and the claims can be verified or falsified, not only will the public be accustomed to the law, but the falsity of claims made years earlier in support of what is now a settled matter will not be considered news and will not be discussed in the media.
As a basic strategy it sure seems like it could work.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
Gotta try this thing of referring to "a few" of something and then immediately clarifying that I mean just two in the next sentence.
― nashwan, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
Just like with every recent war or tax cut, it's not like the GOP are going to have to clean it up. They screw up get out of power, then the Democrats cut the ugly no win legislation to duct tape a fix and then get blamed for causing the problem in the first place and two years later the GOP are back in power.
― earlnash, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:41 (six years ago) link
this pattern is woefully well established
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
last Dem fix for the war effort was a duct taped roll of $700 billion gifted to hater in chief
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 30 November 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
huh, that's odd
In the latest POLITICO/Morning Consult tracking poll out this week, just 36 percent of voters overall said they support the GOP plan. Among Republican voters, support dropped to 59 percent from 66 percent, suggesting Democrats are having some success with their attacks that the bill is strongly tilted to corporations and the wealthy.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 19:40 (six years ago) link
(the drop in GOP support, that is)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 19:41 (six years ago) link
it will make no difference
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:10 (six years ago) link
I don't think so either, it's just weird
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:16 (six years ago) link
Their plan is that everyone gets a taxcut in the first year, and then everything except tax cuts for the richest is phased out. So in 2018, people get money, get excited and vote for GOP in midterms, then after that they're screwed.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:28 (six years ago) link
Phases out in 2026 right?
― dan selzer, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
the stuff for individuals phases out; corporate changes are permanent
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:47 (six years ago) link
this thread makes me look forward to dying
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
right, I meant the individual stuff, comment before seemed to imply it would be right after 2018
― dan selzer, Thursday, 30 November 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
it's not this simple
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
my taxes - like those of others in NY, etc. - will go up without the state/local tax deduction, for example.
other people in other states will get screwed in different ways, since their overall rate might be lowered but that won't necessarily make up for the loss from various deductions
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
the monstrosity lumbers on
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/11/30/trump-to-cut-bears-ears-national-monument-by-85-percent-grand-staircase-escalante-by-half-documents-show/?utm_term=.f9a96416146b
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
also, surprise!
Breaking: Congress’ nonpartisan tax analysts have concluded the Senate Republicans’ tax plan would add $1 trillion to the deficit over 10 years, contradicting White House promises the bill would pay for itself and complicating GOP leaders’ efforts to find the support they need to pass the bill through a closely divided Senate.
Republicans’ massive tax overhaul steamed toward passage in the Senate Thursday, picking up key support from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) as the number of holdouts narrowed.
A few issues remained unresolved, most critically a “trigger” sought by Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) to raise taxes if growth estimates aren’t met. But GOP leaders projected optimism about passing the $1.5 trillion legislation through the Senate on Thursday evening or Friday, a major step forward as President Trump and GOP leaders seek to overhaul the U.S. tax code for the first time in three decades.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
In the latest POLITICO/Morning Consult tracking poll out this week, just 36 percent of voters overall said they support the GOP plan.
So it's almost twice as popular as ACA repeal! No wonder it's passing.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:25 (six years ago) link
i'd be eternally honored xpost
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:27 (six years ago) link
I just glanced at the first part of that WaPo url, read "Trump to cut bears' ears," and just figured, huh, well yeah, he would do that...
― the young, low level volunteer named (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:52 (six years ago) link
Is there a Bear Palin?
― nashwan, Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:28 (six years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/2017/11/30/c2118302-d5e7-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.htmlThe Republican plan for a massive tax overhaul slammed into late-stage drama on Thursday as party leaders scrambled to prevent several members from derailing the entire effort.The tension played out during a tense 62-minute standoff on the Senate floor, as Sens. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.) refused to vote with their colleagues until they had assurances that more changes could be made to the bill.Corker and Flake had just been informed that their proposed “trigger,” a mechanism to raise taxes if economic growth came in slower than projected, would not be allowed by the Senate’s parliamentarian....The competing demands sent GOP leaders scrambling. They control just 52 votes in the 100-seat chamber, and they can’t afford to lose three Republicans if they want the bill to pass. After Corker, Flake, and Johnson agreed to let the debate proceed, GOP leaders conceded that numerous changes were now under consideration.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:32 (six years ago) link
dragging out the inevitable, most likely
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:35 (six years ago) link
for sure but it is amazing how bad they are at this
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
you mean governing?
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:50 (six years ago) link
being humans
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
Chuck Todd said they have to prove they're good at governing, see.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:59 (six years ago) link
read that post in the voice of Edward G. Robinson
― Οὖτις, Friday, 1 December 2017 00:00 (six years ago) link
It's a bad idea for Senate Dems -- not all of them -- to insist that this thing will Blow Up the Deficit. We know what's coming. When the deficit blows up, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and the tired wretched bodies of the poor are next -- if any rubble is left standing when this excrescence is signed.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 December 2017 00:00 (six years ago) link
yeah the deficit stuff is all basically a weak dodge, the better argument is "the rich get all your money, you get nothing"
― Οὖτις, Friday, 1 December 2017 00:02 (six years ago) link
Being humans? They’re not even good at being boring white guys in suits
― El Tomboto, Friday, 1 December 2017 00:03 (six years ago) link
I really don't get why dems are constantly wringing their hands over the deficit. They got burned by that line of thinking repeatedly under Obama, and it looks like they still haven't learned anything.
― Moodles, Friday, 1 December 2017 00:11 (six years ago) link
Donors
― El Tomboto, Friday, 1 December 2017 00:13 (six years ago) link