Abolish the Police

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hey

bamcquern, Thursday, 26 October 2017 22:08 (three years ago) link

Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

previous thread starts there

bamcquern, Thursday, 26 October 2017 22:09 (three years ago) link

Once you abolish them, how do you keep them abolished?

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:18 (three years ago) link

using the military, of course

bob lefse (rushomancy), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:19 (three years ago) link

policing should not be abolished

federal standards of policing should be established and enforced via funding. the department of transportation has done wonders for getting EMTs all to similar levels of competence across the country.

El Tomboto, Friday, 27 October 2017 00:21 (three years ago) link

Federal standards would be useful, possibly even great, but totally impossible in the current political climate. Or in any political climate I've seen in my lifetime. Or that I've read about in US history. Or that I can imagine occurring before I die.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:28 (three years ago) link

i support the concept, but human beings like to persecute each other violently

also it's the end of the world

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:31 (three years ago) link

is human beings persecuting each other violently referring to the police or non-police?

assawoman bay (harbl), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:47 (three years ago) link

how did everything on my ilx become tinier when i clicked this thread

assawoman bay (harbl), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:47 (three years ago) link

both, all, etc xp

i'd abolish the motherfucking goddamn US military murder machine first tho

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:49 (three years ago) link

i think the police should be abolished but it should be done in a very slow and secretive manner to stop everyone from doing crimes *because* there are no police

assawoman bay (harbl), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:54 (three years ago) link

People who carry weapons as a hobby should probably be abolished before we abolish the professions where people sometimes carry guns

El Tomboto, Friday, 27 October 2017 01:20 (three years ago) link

Reminds me of a reddit thread where some dude was weighing the pro et contra arguments re: the 2nd amendment and leaning slightly toward more control before suddenly concluding, without the faintest trace of irony, that no matter which side of the fence you're on, the fact that guns are fun is so utterly undeniable that all other considerations are irrelevant, confirming the farseeing wisdom of the Founding Fathers™.

pomenitul, Friday, 27 October 2017 01:34 (three years ago) link

Oh, really

El Tomboto, Friday, 27 October 2017 01:37 (three years ago) link

policing involves a lot of activities that don't involve brutal, nay fatal, violence. And policing has been part of civilization since BCE2K and earlier, probably. if we follow Bardach's Eightfold Path, we're hardly into step 3 - "construct some alternatives." If we want to reform the business that is policing, we have to figure out who should do it, and what institutions should define how it is done.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 28 October 2017 00:16 (three years ago) link

five months pass...

#NoCopAcademy still holding it down at Chicago City Hall pic.twitter.com/45zKClRmdI

— Sarah Lazare (@sarahlazare) March 28, 2018

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 20:13 (three years ago) link

two years pass...

This is a good piece on Hong Kong protestor efforts:

https://lausan.hk/2019/how-to-abolish-the-hong-kong-police/

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 June 2020 16:31 (one year ago) link

Abolish the police.

all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 2 June 2020 21:18 (one year ago) link

otm

dip to dup (rob), Tuesday, 2 June 2020 21:29 (one year ago) link

do it yesterday. i am losing my mind at ppl who think this dumbass eight is enough plan or whatever the fuck it's called is anything. how do i get off the internet.

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:49 (one year ago) link

liberals are convinced that they can turn the police into nice boys who really care for the people they are funneling into the prison industrial complex

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:51 (one year ago) link

but if cops had to announce "i'm going to shoot you" before they shot you, maybe that would be your ticket to heaven. it would CHANGE. EVERYTHING.

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:53 (one year ago) link

i just remembered one time deray mckesson was speaking at a conference i was at, and i knew there was no one i could talk to who would understand why he sucks, so i went to get a pastrami sandwich and came back when it was over

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:54 (one year ago) link

How was the sandwich

all cats are beautiful (silby), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:54 (one year ago) link

it was great, i want another

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 15:57 (one year ago) link

I prefer the defund/shrink approach to abolish. There is a bad historical meme going around now that policing originated with slave patrols, which is sort of a distorted half-truth. Societies of all kinds have always had some form of policing or other. Ours is clearly bloated, hyper-militarized and racist and needs to be radically reduced and changed.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:09 (one year ago) link

Abolish the uniform guys, retain parking enforcement and grizzled detectives hiding hearts of gold under their gruff exteriors

all cats are beautiful (silby), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:11 (one year ago) link

Societies of all kinds have always had some form of policing or other.

citation needed

sleeve, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:15 (one year ago) link

it is not relevant to me whether the origin was in slave patrols. we can keep kurt wallander around to solve violent crimes, and we can keep all the stars of parking wars. everyone else has to go.

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:26 (one year ago) link

oh, so you mean "modern civilization" not the hundreds of thousands of years of hunter gatherers, OK.

IMO that history shows the problems that resulted from the "first fence" more than anything:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/560830.My_Name_is_Chellis_and_I_m_in_Recovery_from_Western_Civilization

sleeve, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:36 (one year ago) link

not only is it broadly modern civilization but it's far from a continuous history and most police forces in their modern organization, powers and tactics aren't much older than the mid 19th century

on the other hand even if they were ordained by god in the garden of Eden abolish the fuckers

hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:38 (one year ago) link

oh ok so we should build a neoprimitive society with 7 billion people on the planet, that should go well

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:39 (one year ago) link

well the 19th century was when much of the world's population urbanized

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:40 (one year ago) link

this isn't a reformist thread

NV otm

they are agents of capital and should be shown no remorse or mercy

sleeve, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:40 (one year ago) link

as i said, the police as constituted today are very much a function of the capitalist societies that introduced them, form something else by all means but the police institutions we have were rotten at conception

hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:41 (one year ago) link

and they don't keep us safe, either

sleeve, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:41 (one year ago) link

this seems as good a place as any to vent: my local solidarity rally tomorrow is not allowing anti-police signs. I wish them the best with it but I'm going to pass. Small city in Canada.

maffew12, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:41 (one year ago) link

there's probably other threads for cautiously liking the police tbf

hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:42 (one year ago) link

Without first dismantling capitalism, there's no practical difference between abolishing the police and privatising it.

I don't think short-term commitment to abolition can be used as a gatekeeping device for conversations about how to move forward from where we are now.

ShariVari, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:43 (one year ago) link

it is true that we must first seize the means of production before the withering away of the state can occur

contorted filbert (harbl), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:46 (one year ago) link

anyway the specific bone of contention was that the police are not a natural offshoot of the state of nature who must always be with us as sinful fallen humans

hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:49 (one year ago) link

thank you, yes that is what I was saying

sleeve, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:50 (one year ago) link

You know that old canard, "It's easy to criticize the police but you'll soon change your tune when you actually need them"? Well, I think I've said it here before but whenever I've actually needed the police - break-ins, muggings etc - they have proved to be completely useless and generally given the impression they couldn't give a flying fuck.

Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:50 (one year ago) link

Add laziness and ineptitude to their list of sins.

Captain Beeftweet (Tom D.), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:51 (one year ago) link

here here, NV. I will have to work to have this discussion more, locally, soon.

maffew12, Friday, 5 June 2020 16:53 (one year ago) link

ok just spitballing here but what if we abolished the police

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:54 (one year ago) link

hm interesting expand on that

all cats are beautiful (silby), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:54 (one year ago) link

the first time i got burgled the first 15 minutes of interaction with the cops was persuading them we hadn't done it ourselves cos we lived on a "bad" estate

hip posts without flaggadocio (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 June 2020 16:54 (one year ago) link

love to burgle myself

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, 5 June 2020 17:00 (one year ago) link

All PDs are disgusting

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 02:36 (seven months ago) link

i couldn't find an easy tick/check gif but fuck yes

big man on scampus (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 02:43 (seven months ago) link

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 10:04 (seven months ago) link

APDAD

superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 12:37 (seven months ago) link

*TW: Police assault on black woman*

8 officers pinned a black woman to the ground and punched her. She said that the officer holding her down was killing her. She says a female officer "smirked" and responded: 'If you can talk, you can breathe" https://t.co/FUVvQjWRaB

— #BlackLivesMatterUK (@ukblm) November 24, 2020

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 12:50 (six months ago) link

🇨🇵Un manifestante lanza un cóctel molotov a la policía en París.pic.twitter.com/BzNtMWmGGl

— Descifrando la Guerra (@descifraguerra) November 28, 2020

Left, Saturday, 28 November 2020 21:16 (six months ago) link

two months pass...

Roundup:

Rochester sure seems like a fucking racist shithole.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/23/nyregion/daniel-prude-rochester-police.html

Unsurprisingly, so is Aurora, CO:
https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/the-killing-of-elijah-mcclain-everything-we-know.html

Salient quote from that second article:

On February 22, the independent investigators released the results of their months-long inquest that combed body cam footage, videotaped interviews with the responding officers and their follow-up reports, notes from the scene, the 911 call and the dispatch record, the autopsy report, medical records, and more. In 157 pages, the investigators contend that the APD “stretched the record to exonerate the officers rather than present a neutral version of the facts,” and that police — particularly Woodyard — escalated “what may have been a consensual encounter with Mr. McClain into an investigatory stop,” without reason to suspect criminal activity. “This decision had ramifications for the rest of the encounter,” the report states, emphasizing the speed with which officers resorted to (what investigators deemed) unnecessary force, and questioning the justification for a “pat-down search” in the first place.

The report also notes that first responders injected McClain with an inappropriately large dose of ketamine “based on a grossly inaccurate and inflated estimate of Mr. McClain’s size,” without attempting to “examine or question” him first. “At the time of the injection,” the report states, “Mr. McClain had not moved or made any sounds for about one minute.”

After the fact, the report says, detectives with the APD’s Major Crimes unit “failed to ask basic, critical questions about the justification for the use of force” and “seemingly ignored contrary evidence” in its investigation of the incident.

On Monday, City Manager Twombly said he and City Council were “reviewing their report and look forward to hearing additional context during their presentation before we comment further,” according to ABC. McClain’s mother, Sheneen McClain, told CNN: “It was overwhelming knowing my son was innocent the entire time and just waiting on the facts and proof of it. My son’s name is cleared now. He’s no longer labeled a suspect. He is actually a victim.”

“I looked at everything that happened to him because it’s my responsibility,” she added. “Even in death, he’s still my son. His name, his legacy. All that matters.”

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:00 (three months ago) link

There've been a bunch of other recent happenings and issues in regards to various cases, too. So many that those are just the first two that popped into mind.

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:00 (three months ago) link

aurora definitely, "unsurprisingly" otm.

it's taken me a long time to realize that a big part of what drove western expansion was a vision of white supremacy. the whole west is in the grip of that legacy and it sees particularly brutal application in places like aurora or albuquerque or west valley city, ut, although sometimes i think i'm actually grateful for the mormonism in utah because there is a utopian strain of it that makes the racism more genteel (for better or for worse).

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:18 (three months ago) link

a big "more anti-racism bias training" bill is about to pass in utah. i mean, i wish it would help and i'm sure there's some good / important stuff in the training but it's pretty obviously a case of "implement a new policy as a way of lying to ourselves and sweeping the larger dynamic / material reality under the rug."

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:24 (three months ago) link

anything other than "fewer cops with fewer jobs and fewer weapons" is a smokescreen

Canon in Deez (silby), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:27 (three months ago) link

i 100% agree.

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:29 (three months ago) link

map, there are loads of books on the issues you're getting at, but i highly recommend this one by Manu Karuka: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520296640/empires-tracks

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:30 (three months ago) link

cool, thanks for the rec!

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:31 (three months ago) link

it does an excellent job of mixing polemic with historical fact

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:31 (three months ago) link

my kind of material lol

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:34 (three months ago) link

thx table

the other new developments (i posted on police brutality thread) were the buffalo cops not being indicted for shoving the guy to the ground, and rochester police spraying a handcuffed child with OC spray in a premeditated fashion.

superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:37 (three months ago) link

i mean i posted the buffalo one on the other thread, not that it matters

superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:37 (three months ago) link

hi harbl, thanks for the info

map ca. 1890 (map), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:41 (three months ago) link

also philadelphia police demand "accountability pay" in exchange for measures intended to make them follow rules. truly the specialest profession. https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-police-contract-discipline-reform-accountability-20210209.html

superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:46 (three months ago) link

ok we've tried reform

no (Left), Friday, 26 February 2021 16:47 (three months ago) link

the Philly PD is the most obviously racist and corrupt police force of almost any i've ever encountered.

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 26 February 2021 17:06 (three months ago) link

three weeks pass...

This has some great dataviz work:
https://www.leonardonicoletti.com/work/deathtoll

DJI, Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:17 (two months ago) link

Abolish “defund the police”.

— San (@sansdn) April 2, 2021

nothing (Left), Friday, 2 April 2021 18:40 (two months ago) link

three weeks pass...

this ebook is free https://www.versobooks.com/books/2817-the-end-of-policing

haven't finished it but it seems pretty solid and accessible (if US-centric) and probably as inoffensive to the unconvinced as a book with this title/premise could be (downplaying of UK police awfulness rankles, but at least it acknowledges the british colonial origins of modern policing). as usual i find the diagnosis more convincing than many of the suggested alternatives but that's just me

Left, Saturday, 24 April 2021 15:08 (one month ago) link

if we abolish the police wont you have to leave?

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 24 April 2021 16:00 (one month ago) link

is the zing that I'm a cop or that I'm a broken record? just so I know how offended to be

but of course I would take that deal

Left, Saturday, 24 April 2021 16:18 (one month ago) link

doing the bit where youre an undercover cop, gotta keep things spicy

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 24 April 2021 16:32 (one month ago) link

I'm generally against kinkshaming but cop fantasies can gtf

Left, Saturday, 24 April 2021 16:33 (one month ago) link

sry but i will never stop being horny 4 justice

anyway 1312 including known undercover cop user "left"

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 24 April 2021 16:38 (one month ago) link

Fellow children, pls behave

flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Saturday, 24 April 2021 17:03 (one month ago) link

yknow who ELSE heavily regulates behavior hmmmmm

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 24 April 2021 17:10 (one month ago) link

this is all a bit rich coming from M Bison

rob, Saturday, 24 April 2021 17:19 (one month ago) link

please, M Bison is my fathers name

class project pat (m bison), Saturday, 24 April 2021 17:22 (one month ago) link

tbf it has been very obvious that user left is a cop all along

plax (ico), Saturday, 24 April 2021 22:23 (one month ago) link

if you ask a cop if they're a cop, they have to tell you the truth

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 24 April 2021 22:24 (one month ago) link

but an overt cop might lead with their badge. maybe even a bulletproof badge

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 24 April 2021 22:24 (one month ago) link

if you ask a cop for their hat so that you can take a shit in it in the street they have to give it to you

plax (ico), Saturday, 24 April 2021 22:27 (one month ago) link

wait til Judge Dredd finds his helmet

Filibuster Poindexter (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 April 2021 01:07 (one month ago) link

not really aware of the intricate unspoken history of trolling here but the book is a very good read, I'd only read excepts previously

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Sunday, 25 April 2021 22:40 (one month ago) link

the book is good, i downloaded it a while back

class project pat (m bison), Sunday, 25 April 2021 23:12 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

#NewProfilePic pic.twitter.com/Svw2nm4jsL

— PGPDNEWS (@PGPDNews) June 3, 2021

superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 4 June 2021 11:22 (two weeks ago) link

Fuck of

Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Friday, 4 June 2021 15:21 (two weeks ago) link

recoperation

Left, Friday, 4 June 2021 15:29 (two weeks ago) link

Assigned
Cop
At
Birth

Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 4 June 2021 15:30 (two weeks ago) link

ACAB

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/police-officer-sued-for-flipping-pregnant-womans-car-when-she-didnt-stop-fast-enough/

There's dashcam video on reddit and this woman was very clearly looking for a safe place to pull over (had slowed down, had her hazards on) when this impatient shitheel decided to PIT maneuver a pregnant woman's car.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 June 2021 16:13 (two weeks ago) link

there was one time I was getting pulled over where I abruptly reduced speed due to being startled and the cop gave me shit for 'pulling over and braking too abruptly'.

this lady tries to pull over safely and gets pitted by an aggro bro cop.

it's almost like these thugs just want obedience and worship.

cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 June 2021 19:05 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah, I just assume he didn't consider that "immediate compliance" and decided that risking not only her life, but anyone else on that highway's life, was the proper response.

It just makes me so angry because a) this is often what women are told to do, pull over somewhere safe and well lit (preferably in sight of witnesses or cameras) and b) it was also to his benefit because that narrow ass shoulder wasn't going to be safe a stop at all. Just, so infuriating.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 9 June 2021 19:11 (two weeks ago) link

we'd all be better off if a semi had domed him shortly after. fuck cops

cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 June 2021 19:14 (two weeks ago) link


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