Learning How To Talk To People.

I'm still learning. It's hard sometimes! I try not to alarm people. I have a tendency to blurt stuff out without thinking. Kind of like on internet message boards. Kind of like on one internet message board. But I'm not even 50 yet. I'll figure it out! I mostly just try to be really polite and state the facts. I posted some reminders for myself at the store. I try to remember at home too though. Anywhere where there might be people.

https://scontent.fbed1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992803_10156183226112137_5435713567081105916_n.jpg?oh=5e9b87673852182eb9c63f644b41d140&oe=5A4A8397

Just ask questions

seems like a p solid cheat sheet. maybe i can get this tattooed on the back of my hand.

Calstars is correct. I've never gone wrong just asking people questions. People love to talk about themselves.

Just ask ppl questions abt themselves was one of the most valuable bits of advice I ever got (I think I was like 22? Changed my life forever, srsly)

Yeah, asking people stuff is key! Takes the pressure off.

Scott, what % of people who come in the store are not "record people"?

too many.

I have to make it up there someday, you can tell me whether I'm RP or not. :)

i have never had a problem talking to an ILX person. that's why i liked those pop conferences i went to so much. it was such a relief to just talk and be myself.

last ILX person who came in the store: alex in sf! he's very nice and a pleasure to talk to.

yeah solid list scott. find out what people are passionate about, it can really break the ice

People love to talk about themselves.

This isn't universally true. If I don't know you and you start asking me questions about myself, I'll shut down the conversation pretty quickly. Not intending to be rude - but I'd have to know you better to speak about myself.
It could be the classic English reserve.

yep ask questions and maintain eye contact. i struggle with this stuff.

ask questions but make sure to listen to the answers too!

this is one of the strongest pieces of my skill set!
i am pretty good at talking with people

People love to talk about themselves.

This isn't universally true. If I don't know you and you start asking me questions about myself, I'll shut down the conversation pretty quickly. Not intending to be rude - but I'd have to know you better to speak about myself.
this is also very true. i grow suspicious of people who ask me too many questions about myself. i enjoy conversations with people i don't know but am not comfortable revealing things about myself to them at ALL. there are so many things to talk about, let's not talk about me.

best of luck on your quest
not talking over people is a good start
as a short person who is frequently surrounded by tall people, this happens to me both literally and figuratively a lot

"Talking to no-one is strange but talking to someone is stranger"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uxQvzsCUVQ

I don't ask people a lot of personal questions - far from it - just anything that appears to take some measure of interest in what they are doing, where they have recently been, things like that. Before long I guarantee you will be in a conversation you wish you could get out of.
- xposts to La Lechera & LS

I guess a better way to say it is that people tend to respond when you appear to be interested in them. The way they find this out is if you ask questions that show interest in them.

I try to ask some kind of neutral but friendly question as early in the conversation as I can. Usually their response to my first question will give an indication of what kind of conversation they might like to have (or not have).

Eye contact is good when it is accompanied by a relaxed facial expression. I'm not a smiley guy, so I used to have to remind myself to smile when talking to strangers. It took a while to acquire that habit, but now whenever I smile at someone I immediately start to feel more comfortable with them. If I'm a little tense, I try to relax my neck and shoulders and adjust the space between us so we're not crowding each other. If the person is elderly, female, physically smaller than I am, or anxious, I try to convey through my body language that I am safe to be around.

i like talking to ppl who are bad at talking to ppl, they are my favourite - pressure's off

i like joining in conversations but i am terrible at starting them! i am always in my head that my smalltalk is boring

Co-sign getting people to talk about themselves. I am pretty terrible talking about myself and I don't know if it's more because I find my life pretty thoroughly uninteresting or because I just get nervous when monologuing/storytelling and afraid I'm going to totally freeze up and look like a doofus (even though I fully understand that's hardly the worst thing imaginable). My lane is just moving conversations along and then blurting out jokes/wisecracks whenever they pop into my head. Thankfully I'm pretty good at that.

All of the things on your checklist make sense, Scott. Just hope you won't think of all of them at once when striking a convo with people (RP or not). That can't be right, and seems stressful.

You've got a fucking great record store (Lou Barlow said so, so it must be true), and are an authority on all things music. You've got levity. I am always impressed by the people who run local record stores. And for better or worse always wind up being friends and ending up in bars with the owners. No stress, you are doing great, and customers probably respect you way more than you'll ever know, is what I'm saying.

Socializing with people is something I'm quite decent at. I'm pretty good at starting conversations, as well. Some of my exes would say I am too good at it.

Having said that, as La Lechera said, I clamp up when strangers start asking me too many personal questions. Never do that. Ask questions about the person's interests, something that isn't too personal. I know this can be ambiguous and it only comes with practice, because part of the trick is reading people and observing their body language.

Another issue is when people are too obvious when reading people -- I find this to be very rude, as well, unless I like you (but theoretically, we've only just met), so I try to be quick about it and do it in a way that is not obvious -- quick glances, turning away during pauses, then making eye contact again when speaking with him or her. You will undoubtedly meet people who are on to your "strategy" and they will not like it and will make it very difficult for you. At this point, just be honest if you are interested in pursuing a conversation with them; e.g., "I'm just asking because I'm trying to suggest a record, or seeing if we have some common ground," etc. This type of interaction will probably end soon and that's fine. Not everyone will want to talk to you or befriend you. Some are very to-the-point. Let them be. Each person should be approached slightly differently, but those subtle details make a huge difference to the person you're interacting with because it's these details that they come to sense intuitively.

Personally, I think I'm the type that is very friendly and approachable, so almost every other person I pass by at work says hi to me. This annoys a minority, which is fine. Obviously, I don't speak with them or keep it to small talk on an as-needed basis.

One very important thing in building relationships (or friendships) is remembering details of the people you interact with. If you follow-up on something they told you a week ago or whatever time frame may be relevant, they will appreciate it. I believe they call it "building rapport" in business-speak. It'll help you gain loyal customers. At the same time, don't be fake. If you are not interested or just doing small talk, understand this type of interaction will always be filled with formalities unless you take the above steps to change it, and that's if both of you want it to change. There are others who have small talk and keep it informal. I think this type of person is quite common at record stores. You are already at an advantage if you work at a record store, because you already have a sense of duty or a role you must fulfil: It's your job to provide good customer service, and part of that is engaging with people by understanding their taste in music. You will create a better environment and build a better record store if you know your market and the type of customers that frequent that establishment, right? I think most customers inherently understand this already, so it shouldn't be too awkward.

The short of it is: Don't be pretentious, be friendly, don't be like the guys from High Fidelity. :-)

I find myself having trouble not getting bored with people if they're talking about something I'm not even vaguely interested in.

Also, not lecturing like a firehose when I try to explain something. I'm going at laying connections between and systematizing things, but not necessary editing myself from going into way too much detail.

I can't remember the last time I had an in-person conversation with someone other than my wife that wasn't a transaction. If I'm talking to you, I want something. And it's not to be friends.

A Favorite ILM post (after the first image)

The main thing is don't overthink it anyway

I find myself having trouble not getting bored with people if they're talking about something I'm not even vaguely interested in.

tbf, part of that is on the other speaker to recognise that they're losing you and move the conversation on

yknow, i think it's important to distinguish between developing basic social skills (which all sorts of people lack for any number of reasons) and undoing the work of the patriarchy and improving one's "soft skills" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_skills)

what is the distinction?

the distinction is that if you are developing basic social skills, you are starting from a place of deficit --this applies to a much more narrow swath of people.

the latter is about interacting with people differently, from a more empathetic position and with more care, and can be explained by reading the wikipedia entry about soft skills. it should also be noted that historically, women are taught soft skills (somewhat aggressively!) from a young age but men aren't as much. this is changing but not fast enough to include men currently in their 40s.

pretty sure that this thread is about the latter and should not be confused with the former.

idgi though - what are "basic social skills" if not the kind of thing discussed in that wikipedia article?

you can go through life as a total boor and still be considered functional -- you can operate in society with minimal soft skills and still succeed. ample evidence exists for this.

if you don't understand how to smile when you're happy, or stop yelling when you are upset, or cannot handle light conflict ("this food is the wrong shape!") without completely losing your composure, you lack basic social skills.

that is my understanding. for instance, i have used my soft skills to describe the difference without singling anyone out and trying not to embarrass/offend anyone -- because being kind is important to me. you may not know that since i am just words on a page, but i hope you take my word for it.

I'm maladroit when talking about myself so I prefer letting the other person chat while I interject bon mots, the shrewdest method of revelation.

I think I have trouble talking to people largely because many of the people I encounter are lacking in these very soft skills you mention. So thank you for introducing that term to me. Needless conflict seems to be lying just under the surface with most people I interact with, and it's exhausting and makes me feel very...'what's even the point of this'.

Like 'this food is the wrong shape!' is a ridiculous basis for conflict but I find myself having to ride out conflict of that nature way more often than I'd like. It's much easier on my constitution to just, like, read and write and listen to music.

I've always heard 'soft skills' used to refer to a kind of nebulous set of professional skills as defined by management. seems very american business speak to me, full of lots of class signifiers & not necessarily a good guide for chatting to ppl socially, but LL seems to use it in a broader, less prescriptive sense more akin to what I understand as 'social skills' or even just empathy

There's nothing more culturally sensitive than politeness -- for me "soft skills" isn't the best possible description of these skills but it's the one i know. it's kind of offensive tbh! as if interacting with people is somehow less "hard" than knowing how to make a chair or fix a hot water heater or whatever skills people respect as learned abilities or skills.

My main gripe is with the notion of common sense but that's another conversation.

I also think common sense is v dubious

men do get taught/ingrained with some of these skills/traits - I'm thinking of breezy self-assured public schoolboy politesse, the ability to laugh off indignities (learnt through constantly inflicting them on each other) - but there are obviously big differences

I am suspicious of people's desires to have rules for this sort of thing as I think they're inevitably exclusive & you get the bad traits of etiquette: normative, stratified, and reinforcing existing power dynamics. also reminds me of a former colleague who would always take exception to ppl who didn't say 'please' and 'thank you', and would treat them with appalling rudeness in his crusade for proper manners

I think what I find toughest is navigating between what seem to be two conflicting sets of virtues wrt talking to people: that you should treat everyone more or less the same in the name of being sincere, fair and genuine; or that you should be sensitive and flexible to best accommodate & respond to the variety of ppl & situations you will encounter.

i try to match the rhythms of the people around me. i live somewhere pretty slow so it has been a challenge. but i'm getting better at it. i have become more anxious and less patient as i have gotten older which doesn't help. i never thought i would have to remember my Buddhist mindfulness to walk into the co-op market, but, hey, whatever works.

i don't want to be a robot though. i try to blend my personality with general politeness. anxious and impatient can definitely rub off on people. it definitely rubs off on me. so that's why i try to modulate.

i am well aware of my own shortcomings. i should have stressed that above too. i don't let myself off the hook. i don't think people are out to get me and make my life miserable or annoying. i'm just trying to be more conscious of how i act toward others at home and out in the world and i'm starting simple. i used to not care how i effected people. years ago, i worked in public all day long in busy places and i was always hungover and i didn't suffer fools. i said whatever i wanted. now i'm taking more time to be empathetic and careful. i don't want to force myself on people verbally. or force my mental state or my anxiety on others. it sure doesn't feel good when people do it to me.

(not that i was a monster years ago. i was just more oblivious and didn't GAF...)

i used to not care how i effected people.
meanwhile, i have longed for this freedom since the age of 12 or so :(

i hope it's clear that i am not a prescriptivist and i applaud all attempts to consider other people's reactions to one's behavior, esp if such consideration was lacking in the past. these were things i learned in order to survive in the world, not because i wanted to.
in terms of improvement and matching of other people's rhythms, i am much more conscious of my nerves rubbing off on people than i used to be. i have always been a very nervous/enthusiastic person. i try to exercise my chill mindfully too :)

i just want to evolve. the way my personality is i definitely could go the way of the pissed off crank or the hermit in my old age. or i can evolve. and learn. although i suppose the real answer would be to just go to my doctor and get some excellent drugs that would make me love everyone and everything. that's my emergency plan. but i'm going to try to do the work on my own for now.

quitting smoking didn't help...

i am taking over the counter lithium every day though. and L-theanine. which seems to help.

people mistake my enthusiasm for all kinds of other things, things i do not wish to project, i can understand the need to evolve one's approach to interpersonal communication
failure to evolve will leave a person behind

i think maybe evolving requires both a goal of how you want yourself to be (or act), and a healthy recognition and patience with the fact that it will require steps and isn't an overnight process. maybe.

idk about the maybe part ;)

maybe maybe perhaps!

i am myself probably unrecognizable from twenty-plus years ago. i had some low points and when scraping bottom i looked at myself in the mirror (literally!) and said fuck it. i had to extricate myself from my rut, and go to places i wasn't comfortable with. geographically and figuratively. which is how i went from rural IL to NYC (without having ever visited the latter.) i had to leave a lot of things behind, i had to get unsentimental and i guess (it sounds paradoxical) stop caring about what other people thought or felt, but also balancing it out with more empathy and patience. it was a long, long process, i tell ya.

a lot of problems stemmed from really not knowing how to interact with people, is the thing.