Terrorist attacks throughout Europe

Wow, so you don’t actually know anything about Islam?

Don’t make me tap the sign


It’s complicated. I don’t think I’ve ever read a better summary of the cartoons themselves than this old ilx post by an acquaintance:

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari)
Posted: 8 January 2015 at 12:31:21
There's a strong possibility that many of their cartoons would have fallen foul of British laws about inciting racial and religious hatred. Many would have been equally as at home in a Neo-Nazi publication as they were in a libertarian satirical magazine. It's clearly possible to separate the belief that they have a right to publish from a belief that other organisations should republish as a point of principle, though.

xpost Explain please

Your question about piss christ would indicate that you think that’s an equivalent blasphemy. It isn’t even close.

Piss Christ of course being done by an adherent of Catholicism in a religion that doesn’t prohibit depictions of Jesus, so totally comparable.

Like we’re talking about a culture that takes the commandment against idolatry so seriously that basically none of their art, for centuries, is figurative.

I don't think it's possible to commit blasphemy to a religion you don't follow.

That’s some sovereign citizen shit right there

bs

I don't think it's possible to commit blasphemy to a religion you don't follow.

“I don’t belong to any society other than the one I imagine in my own head”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy

1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
accused of blasphemy
b: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity

for a mere man to suggest that he was … divine could only be viewed … as blasphemy
— John Bright †1889

2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

I don't see anything about the beliefs of the person committing the act in those definitions.

Blasphemy in the sense that you are committing a sin that gets you punished within the laws of that religion--sent to hell/burned at stake etc. A non-believer has no spiritual reason to refrain from breaking a particular religion's law, only a social one.

But let's be all Webster's

What, you mean let's understand the meaning of the words we're using?

yes, the social reason not to openly engage in blasphemy is in fact what everyone has been talking about on this thread for days. Thank you for catching up.

I thought we were talking about beheadings

Can’t believe the guy with nothing useful to contribute to any thread is continuing that streak here

it's a living

Oh, now you can see my posts.

Your question was: do you have any thoughts on this?

I think you know the answer

You’re not getting enough attention at home, got it.

too much actually

just catching up on the revive and this is a really interesting discussion. feel very enlightened by some posts itt.

once you pick thru all the people in the thread arguing that the murder was justified under sharia law

lol

Basic critical theory around identity (which you'd think French people would have an edge in) since at least the 1970s

le rire à haute voix

Depends. French critical theory is no monolith and can be quite critical of identity as well.

sorry, the LOL francaise was because Tracer and I were actually in the same critical theory/semiotics classes in the early 90s, where the majority of the texts were English translations of French writers.

I still have my copy of Mythologies by Barthes from MCM 11

Yeah, sorry, I don’t think we should engage in blasphemy. I’m not going to wear a feather crown, nor am I going to keep my shoes in a Mosque. I think respecting the notion that muslims don’t like demeaning caricatures of their prophet is pretty easy to understand, and pretty easy to act on. And that the only social reasons you would partake in such activities is to prove that you don’t care about respecting other people’s right to spiritual and cultural integrity.

I don’t have any regard for blasphemy as an offence, and it strikes me that several people itt are deliberately calling it this to deflect from the fact that it’s just disrespectful - like, if you’re discussing the subject, why use the CH ones?

The CH ones?

The Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

Oh yes, otm.

I think respecting the notion that muslims don’t like demeaning caricatures of their prophet is pretty easy to understand, and pretty easy to act on.

Yes. Of the billion plus individuals or organizations in the western nations, I'd say this easy and respectful action has been taken by almost every one of them. Of the hundreds of billions of original images published each year around the entire world, I'd say fewer than a thousand of them would be caricatures of their prophet. (I'm not so sure about India, so I said "thousand" rather than "a few dozen".)

why use the CH ones?

Perhaps, because this was a civics class in France and the response to these images by some French residents was of particular historic import? It's not like this was a completely random choice. Undoubtedly it was a poor choice, but the reasoning behind their use is quite accessible, even if flawed. I doubt the reasoning was, "I hate my muslim students and want to disrespect them as deeply as I can."

I doubt it too. It was a honest mistake, perhaps. My problem lies in the press, politicians and l'éducation nationale celebrating his actions with heroism.

In a country that celebrates Marine Le Pen this is not unexpected.

Agreed, also expecting that another violent attack relating to these cartoons will happen within a few years. Since no lessons has been learned. The RN's legitimacy will keep growing as a consequence.

Pretty much, yeah. None of the root causes are being addressed, and that's not bound to change any time soon.

I’m just glad you all aren’t talking about Darmanin’s remarks today. Obviously I’m more sympathetic to the mainstream French approach to this than others here, but Darmanin’s comments today were batshit.

Batshit and stupendously stupid.

If the French mainstream involves over ten million people voting for a fascist for the presidency, I’m not sure that’s much to be proud of.

Lol I saw that Euler. Darmanin may want to think about banning the insular, radical, uh, organic vegetable isolation in supermarkets as well. Different aisles for that shit. Drove me crazy in Auchan - the organic bananas being like three aisles over from the regular ones.

It just blows my mind how fucking stupid these people are

and they rule us! I just... I can't

Behold, the true face of terrorism:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcRElhqXUAAChmk.jpg

I eat so much halal food, Darmanin’s should try it, it can be great. Not so much the old El Paso but I get really good tortillas delivered from a place in Prague, really

Undoubtedly it was a poor choice, but the reasoning behind their use is quite accessible, even if flawed. I doubt the reasoning was, "I hate my muslim students and want to disrespect them as deeply as I can."

― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless),

I doubt it too. It was a honest mistake, perhaps. My problem lies in the press, politicians and l'éducation nationale celebrating his actions with heroism.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, October 21, 2020

No, this is not an honest mistake. It's ignorant and malign. It is like a classroom of white and Asian kids clips of I. Y. Yunioshi and Long Duk Dong and going 'hey, what's wrong with what I just did?'