THE IRISHMAN, A Martin Scorsese Picture with de Niro, Pacino, Pesci, Keitel

I also haven't seen enough of the MCU to say whether or not it's "cinema." Marvel is serving a happy fanbase and cleaning up. That doesn't seem like a death or a loss to me.

I tend to look at it as the final, inevitable triumph of market efficiency. It's a formula for minimal risk and maximum potential profit. Hence why people defending MCU movies with a kind of shrug and "they're fine" is exactly the point of the likes of Scorsese. The point of those movies is to be "fine," to create as smooth and efficient a means as possible to deliver entertainment to as wide a group of people as possible. This is nothing new of course but the extension of branding accomplished via a "universe" of interconnected movies is--it's like looking at toothpaste in the store...there's nothing beyond superficial differences because to risk communicating something "human" as scorsese puts it is to risk, inevitably, turning some people off.

Secondly, the whole "they're fine" thing is pernicious because it confirms my suspicion that movies predicated on pure frictionless enjoyment actually are not really *enjoyed* by anyone...they're not even meant to be enjoyed, merely anticipated...and the whole wildly defensive posture the "fans" take are worthy of some more sophisticated psychoanalysis than I can muster right now.

I think plenty of comic book fans genuinely love the MCU. your description is 100% OTM of the Disney remakes.

the vast majority of people that see MCU movies are not comic book fans, judging by the actual sales of comic books

I think plenty of comic book fans genuinely love the MCU.

unfortunately I am doing that infuriating thing where I'm telling them that their understanding of their own experience is wrong!

whoever their fanbase consists of, I see a lot less mishegoss over Avengers and Spider-Man than the completely insane Star Wars community.

It does seem likely to me--for a variety of reasons, if none more persuasive than sheer novelty--that this bubble will burst.

the vast majority of people that see MCU movies are not comic book fans, judging by the actual sales of comic books

― Οὖτις, Friday, October 4, 2019 12:52 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

nobody is a fan of comic books because the comic book product is woefully undesirable and unavailable outside of specialty retailers

stooooooooooooop

fwiw I am excited to see the Irishman

Me too

loooool

Martin Scorsese is one of my 5 favorite living filmmakers. I was outraged when people picketed The Last Temptation of Christ without having seen the film. I’m saddened that he’s now judging my films in the same way. https://t.co/hzHp8x4Aj8

— James Gunn (@JamesGunn) October 4, 2019

lmao

let us ponder the deep spiritual and personal issues explored in GOTG (a film I could not finish it was so atrocious)

ugh he never said he hadn't seen them, he in fact "tried" which says something abt his optimism as a film lover.

James Gunn unleashing a Tony Stark eyeroll gif on **Martin Scorsese** lmao

Not really Scorsese's fault that you made poor life decisions Mr Gunn

Guardians of the Bronx

Scorsese films >>>>> Marvel films

But he is still so wrong on so many levels here. Cinema literally began as fairground attractions, so saying films that feel like 'theme parks' aren't cinema is... just wrong. And also, part of why films like Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, and Raging Bull are good is because they feel like theme park rides gone very wrong. The best superhero films are the ones that are most purely theme park films, the ones that goes for psychology, Logan, Joker, aren't in any way an improvement. And First Reformed is just a simulacra of better art anyway, there's no difference.

All in all, so so annoying.

maybe Marty just saw Thor 2 or something

Thor 3 > Shutter Island. But that's as far as it goes, I think :)

What movies play in movie theaters is literally a zero sum game

― flappy bird, Friday, October 4, 2019 3:21 PM bookmarkflaglink

Literally two whopping theatres in my town regularly showed anything approximating art or indie films prior to the MCU. And they still do. The spaces the MCU takes just went to Apatow movies or whatever shit was hot

lets start talking about apatow movies and how whether they are more or less art than MCU shit to really get morbsy's goat

I really do wanna see The Irishman tho

i do also

being a huge fan of de-aging cgi as used in such movies as MARVEL'S Guardians of the Galaxy 2

What movies play in movie theaters is literally a zero sum game

― flappy bird, Friday, October 4, 2019 3:21 PM bookmarkflaglink

Literally two whopping theatres in my town regularly showed anything approximating art or indie films prior to the MCU. And they still do. The spaces the MCU takes just went to Apatow movies or whatever shit was hot

― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Friday, October 4, 2019 6:48 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Never mentioned art house cinema. I'm talking about stuff like this: https://www.flavorwire.com/492985/how-the-death-of-mid-budget-cinema-left-a-generation-of-iconic-filmmakers-mia

Superhero movies are for 12 year olds

if only

Some trenchant-ass social commentary itt!

What movies play in movie theaters is literally a zero sum game

― flappy bird, Friday, October 4, 2019

i've already said my piece on this elsewhere but if you think Marvel pix are squeezing out "cinema" you haven't been to the movies since idk 1975.

smdh that anyone has time to complain about marvel anything when roland emmerich's still around

Never mentioned art house cinema. I'm talking about stuff like this: https://www.flavorwire.com/492985/how-the-death-of-mid-budget-cinema-left-a-generation-of-iconic-filmmakers-mia

― flappy bird, Friday, October 4, 2019

kudos to the author in the sense that citing toback as a credible source (in the #metoo era, even!) and Exhibit A of what we've lost is kinda, uh, man maybe this MCU stuff isn't so bad after all.

The article is from 2014

what do you mean ‘exhibit A?’ the John Waters movie?

nah toback’s distinguished list of credits

and?

idk you asked

like without getting into a big handwringing qu’est-ce que le cinéma discussion the notion that Marvel Studios has somehow appropriated multiplex screens that were otherwise destined to uplift us with quality pictures is risible.

quel dommage the Two Girls and a Guyses of tomorrow will have to find an audience on Amazon Prime Video or Netflix Originals. And they will, bc as the article rightly notes they don’t require absurd budgets, and they don’t need big screens to tell their story.

What does get squeezed out is previous-gen tentpole fare, but I guess I’m okay living in a world without Wilder Hogs or Armageddon 3 or The Day After The Day After Tomorrow.

It may not be cinema - I mean, Scorsese has a point! - but it’s a step up from the alternative, and if you don’t believe that try sitting through Justice League. If you want cinema, there’s always Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse 😂

I don't agree, I miss an abundance of studio comedies and disaster movies and secret agents and book adaptations and more VARIETY... that's really what bothers me about Marvel and Disney's year round occupation of multiplexes, the alarming lack of variety. I go to the movies two, three times a week at least. I'm more invested in what plays than most because I go all the time. it's not like they flushed out all crap: stuff like Flight, Nocturnal Animals, Side Effects, even First Man and Ad Astra can't compete with these behemoths. it is a victory of market efficiency and the movie industry finally finding security in not only IPs but entire universes that can guarantee hits for decades. Maybe the bubble will burst just as did with disaster movies, zombies, and Bucket List ripoffs. I really don't think less of or judge fans of these movies, I reject snobbery and elitism. I do mourn the loss of variety in multiplexes because every movie benefits from seeing on a big screen in a room full of people. but that's just been my experience as a lifelong moviegoer.

totally agree every movie benefits from the movie palace treatment... but man has the transition to streaming shown how few movies deserve it.

still feel like the case against marvel is overblown - like in a sense their greatest crime is that at a time when it seemed like we’d seen the last shitty x-men movie (and to be clear even the “good” ones are turgid and ugly) Kevin Feige and John Favreau and RDJ came along and said “hey wait, I think it’s possible to make cape operas that lots of people will actually enjoy...” but even so there are only like 3 marvel movies a year and 52 weekends.

that said, fuck pretending to care about any Star Wars movie released after 1983

yeah I don't blame them, like I said the Marvel movies are generally well regarded and well received by fans. there are 3 Marvel movies a year that all play for at least 2 months, which is reasonable... but then you've got Disney. they are the real enemy because not only do they have year round remakes, they have yearly Star Wars now. so with Marvel and Disney playing in theaters 24/7 it drastically reduces space, and it got a lot worse in the past 2 years. the MCU started in 2008, but things didn't really change until The Force Awakens in 2015. looking back, that was the beginning of this situation.

Scorsese utterly otm and watching MCU stans trying to own him on film history etc has been great entertainment

Yea always a treat watching a legend go after low-hanging fruit

"Taco Bell isn't real Mexican food"

Scorsese utterly otm and watching MCU stans trying to own him on film history etc has been great entertainment

I thought it was pretty funny how many people were tweeting that Scorsese "only makes movies in one genre"

Well that's obv nonsense.

But the average MCU dork probably just knows Goodfellas and Casino

I mean didn’t Scorsese say that in a response to a question in an interview? It seemed like a perfectly honest (and on point) assessment. Much less of an Old Man Yelling thing in the way someone like Friedkin soapboxes about it.

STOP FEEDING THE MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE FROM THE TABLE FROM THE PLATE ON TOP OF IT.

So does Joe Pesci still do the funny voice

a strange development

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903107/netflix-the-irishman-martin-scorsese-belasco-theater-screening-award-eligibility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_wall_distribution

Adventures in modern four walling.