日本語は話せます 🇯🇵

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A thread for Japanese language learners.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 7 August 2017 23:56 (four years ago) link

Hopefully I didn't screw up the thread title.

Does anyone have a good resource for learning Japanese food words. Decoding menus and ordering food are my number one priority.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 00:07 (four years ago) link

難しいですね。

lots of kanji + non-standard fonts have made menus v tough in my experience. this is something I'm also curious about...

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 00:23 (four years ago) link

お休みなさい。

Barkis Garvey (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 03:19 (four years ago) link

I have found this helpful for negotiating Japanese menus.

droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 03:43 (four years ago) link

That is good.

One thing that has been helpful/entertaining has been watching japanese style originator on Netflix. It's a show where they look at classic japanese things, sort of like one of those 'Ilove the ...' programmes on channel 4. 50 things to put on rice was very good and I now need to go through it at a more stop start pace to learn more of the words for the tastiest things.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 03:56 (four years ago) link

Just download the Google Translate app and use the camera function.

Badmotorfinger Debate Club (MFB), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 07:01 (four years ago) link

It's good, but it gets tripped up by a lot of japanese script, especially the more handwritten ones.

Works really well on stuff like this:

http://imgur.com/a/edaxp

Less good on stuff like this:

http://imgur.com/a/2vj96

And not at all on stuff like this:

http://imgur.com/a/3TrB0

Stuff carved into wooden boards on the far side of a bar, forget about it. Besides, having some fluency around this makes one of the best things about Japan a to more fluid and fun.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 07:17 (four years ago) link

Damnit

It's good, but it gets tripped up by a lot of japanese script, especially the more handwritten ones.

Works really well on stuff like this:

https://i.imgur.com/t1qGJ8U.png

Less good on stuff like this:

https://i.imgur.com/WjOnVvb.png

And not at all on stuff like this:

https://i.imgur.com/QJxUcGxl.png

Stuff carved into wooden boards on the far side of a bar, forget about it. Besides, having some fluency around this makes one of the best things about Japan a to more fluid and fun.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 07:19 (four years ago) link

昼ごはんは おいしい です。

Barkis Garvey (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 17:27 (four years ago) link

That now makes sense having just got to that bit in duo lingo.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 11 August 2017 03:00 (four years ago) link

This one too:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

Barkis Garvey (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 11 August 2017 05:04 (four years ago) link

http://st.cdjapan.co.jp/pictures/l/13/27/NEOBK-2071037.jpg

I thought about buying one of the Unko Guide Drill books while in Tokyo last month (I even went to Namja Town and saw the associated "exhibition") but I decided I don't really need to learn to write kanji by hand at this point---speaking, listening, and reading come first.

droit au butt (Euler), Friday, 11 August 2017 05:46 (four years ago) link

Honestly, make friends with some bilingual friends... esp. if you're going to restaurants with 150-500 yen menus.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 11 August 2017 07:24 (four years ago) link

One potential way to get a little more kanji out of Duolingo is to click on an English word, perhaps after you've submitted so it doesn't count against you, to see if it gives you a kanji definition as well as hiragana.

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 August 2017 02:25 (four years ago) link

So if you are asked to define "bird," type とり, hit the green button and then hover over the word "bird" and you will see 鳥

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 August 2017 02:28 (four years ago) link

Or if it's "cat," type ねこ, hit green button, hover over "cat" to see 猫

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 August 2017 02:32 (four years ago) link

Finally, for "dog," type いぬ, hover over "dog" to see 犬.

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 August 2017 02:34 (four years ago) link

For extra value, type all that stuff in this thread.

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 21 August 2017 02:35 (four years ago) link

just on menus, i would recommend checking restaurant websites / gurunavi pages before going into a place that might have a confusing menu. you can translate things at your own pace and look polished and professional when ordering!

XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 05:46 (four years ago) link

kanji-heavy menu like that, might be best just to learn to say: "what's this one?" the scribbly menu below it, your basic katakana and some deduction will get you there, you're going to notice everything is ハイ and hey it must be a 酎ハイ menu! you don't need to translate it, just go ahead and order your favorite chuhai and it's going to be okay.

XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 05:49 (four years ago) link

ありがとうございます y'all for the menu tips

would those of you using it recommend duolingo for a vocab builder? I've never touched it but could use something to poke me daily on that front.

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Sunday, 3 September 2017 17:19 (four years ago) link

Based on other languages, it's not great as a vocabulary builder once you actually know something. If you are a beginner or rusty intermediate it is great for starting or getting back on track.

When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2017 18:23 (four years ago) link

ah, gotcha. thanks! but sounds like it's not quite what I'm looking for then. 私の日本語はすごく下手ですけど、単語をちょっと知っています。

I just know a handful of kanji really, so I was thinking of just memorizing a new one a day and some words that use this new character. (and since memorizing the 'readings' has been pointless for me because the way they're actually implemented is so inconsistent.) this requires some discipline, unfortunately :-|

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Sunday, 3 September 2017 19:42 (four years ago) link

My wife is using Memrise as a vocab builder, she did Japanese at university and is filling in gaps whereas I am using duolingo for the basics.

I've been using Skritter for 漢字 learning. I was using the Chinese version for 汉子 and thought is was good, there are less useful lists in he 日本語 version but it's relatively easy to build your own. The Chinese version had some great food lists for example. What I like about skritter is that you have to draw the 漢字 which works really well for me from a learning perspective.

Finally Japanese is a useful dictionary with a flash card function; however I just use it for favouriting thugs I look up, creating lists for importing into skritter.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 3 September 2017 20:11 (four years ago) link

My wife is using Memrise as a vocab builder, she did Japanese at university and is filling in gaps whereas I am using duolingo for the basics.

I've been using Skritter for 漢字 learning. I was using the Chinese version for 汉子 and thought is was good, there are less useful lists in he 日本語 version but it's relatively easy to build your own. The Chinese version had some great food lists for example. What I like about skritter is that you have to draw the 漢字 which works really well for me from a learning perspective.

Finally Japanese is a useful dictionary with a flash card function; however I just use it for favouriting thugs I look up, creating lists for importing into skritter.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 3 September 2017 20:11 (four years ago) link

My wife is using Memrise as a vocab builder, she did Japanese at university and is filling in gaps whereas I am using duolingo for the basics.

I've been using Skritter for 漢字 learning. I was using the Chinese version for 汉子 and thought is was good, there are less useful lists in he 日本語 version but it's relatively easy to build your own. The Chinese version had some great food lists for example. What I like about skritter is that you have to draw the 漢字 which works really well for me from a learning perspective.

Finally Japanese is a useful dictionary with a flash card function; however I just use it for favouriting thugs I look up, creating lists for importing into skritter.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 3 September 2017 20:11 (four years ago) link

will check out memrise, thank you!

I briefly tried out skritter but not really long enough to have anything interesting to say. but I def agree about drawing the 漢字, there's something about writing (and, for me, esp. writing on paper) that helps to smash things into your brain. also, I just find writing pleasant and ~relaxing~.

I really like the midori dictionary app. it also has lets you turn your bookmarks into flash cards, which I sometimes flip thru to kill time on the subway. works offline too, which is good for traveling. tho I suppose google translate does that not too.

jisho is also nice for a the web.

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:44 (four years ago) link

*does that now too 😣
*nice for the web 😳

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:46 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

So I finished Duolingo and feel like I have both learned and not really learned anything. Like I said on the other thread it feels like I have beat a game but in doing so I've learnt a bit about the language. I'm doing busuu now which is better as it has more sophisticated exercises, particularly in listening and it has the added bonus of exercises corrected by native speakers; people trade corrections. It does cost though.

What it lacks though is any explanation of grammar so I'm now looking for a good grammar textbook, or textbook that is good at explaining grammar. We have the Japan Times Grammar dictionary which is only useful if you know what you are looking for.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 07:34 (four years ago) link

haven't really shopped around but the genki textbooks (eri banno) do a p good job with this. and also have funny cartoons.

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:54 (four years ago) link

Now I have two upcoming trips to Japan! So I need to work again in earnest on my language. I will have a look at the Genki textbooks when I am there, or if I can find them here (don't just wanna order blind online).

But have any of you tried https://minato-jf.jp ? They are run by the Japan Foundation, and are free. I have good experience with online courses so maybe I'll do this instead of duolingo, where I share some of Ed's concerns.

droit au butt (Euler), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 08:11 (three years ago) link

I'm enjoying Buusuu a lot - the social element, having your little texts and speeches corrected is really good.

Question - How do you type the small versions of や、よ and う?

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:29 (three years ago) link

I wrote this on the train this morning and was very pleased with myself:

毎日六時に起きます。お茶を淹れます。奥さんのために朝ごはんを作ります。今日私たちはスクランブルエッグや海苔や唐辛子七味を食べました。七時シヤワーを浴びます。七時半電車で会社に行きます。

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:33 (three years ago) link

Busuu sent me a limited time half price offer. Wonder if I should take the bait.

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 6 November 2017 23:38 (three years ago) link

I wish I could get the social elements of Busuu without Busuu. The language learning is built on a framework for a european language, even the dialogues talk about Euros not yen. Very little has been done to localise it and I think it is teaching me bad habits in japanese eg. people correcting my japanese say that 彼 and 彼女 are rarely used in favour of name-さん and その人。I'm worried its not very tuned in to japanese idiom and someone just programmed it with a dictionary. Persevering though because people are very generous with their corrections.

I found another app which solves my grammar guide need for now without paying for Genki - Human japanese which is structured like a classroom course would be with nice explanations of the actual mechanics of japanese. Well written too. $13.99 for both the beginner and intermediate courses as a bundle and no subscription fees which is good in my book. Covering a lot of stuff I have 'learnt' in duolingo and busuu and it's really helping.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 05:36 (three years ago) link

I️ can’t tell from what you are saying what the app is called, is it Genki?

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 05:43 (three years ago) link

Oh sorry, I️ see, Human Japanese, and you bought the bundle.

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 05:50 (three years ago) link

Must have been using variant keyboard

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 06:10 (three years ago) link

そです

My writing is far from clear.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 06:19 (three years ago) link

Busuu is now really getting on my wick.

It is using ‘May I...’ and ‘Can I...’ as translations for 。。。していいますか。This may be true but passing the test means not only matching true words but he daft pictures as well. Rapidly falling off this wagon.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:53 (three years ago) link

Dude! I just hitched onto it last night based on your prior recommendation.

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:01 (three years ago) link

Sorry, the social aspect is really good, though.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:03 (three years ago) link

I complained about Buusuu through the medium of App Store reviews and did get a response saying that they were reviewing their Japanese course.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 9 November 2017 03:00 (three years ago) link

I also signed up for their Turkish course, which seems somewhat unidiomatic to me, based on what little I know, but yeah, as a result three people corrected my exercise and seven people almost immediately wanted to be my "friend," Haven't accepted any such requests yet, do you think that will hurt me?

Bazooka Jobim (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 9 November 2017 03:06 (three years ago) link

そです

My writing is far from clear.

― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, November 6, 2017 10:19 PM (two days ago)

です

;-)

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 9 November 2017 03:32 (three years ago) link

Okay, Ed, I have two pieces of advice for you.

Part Time Punkahwallah (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 November 2017 12:36 (three years ago) link

Also, social aspect for corrections and such on busuu is useful. Corrections can come back within seconds.

Part Time Punkahwallah (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 November 2017 15:20 (three years ago) link

I'm thinking of getting the Genki book & workbook when I'm Tokyo in January. I find typing Japanese characters really puzzling so far and I'd rather just work by hand for now I think. But I dunno. Really what I want is to be able to speak, listen, and read, in about that order; writing is less important but should come in time as well.

droit au butt (Euler), Saturday, 11 November 2017 15:48 (three years ago) link

Thing that I am starting to get straight:
The short and long pronunciation of the first kanji here:
世界
世紀
世辞

Thing that still gives me grief:
All the different nuances of meaning as well as whether to rendaku or not for words that start with

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 4 September 2021 21:15 (one month ago) link

I thought I was getting a feel for when to rendaku until I came to 早口, my brain really thinks this should be guchi dammit

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Sunday, 5 September 2021 00:38 (one month ago) link

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:04 (one month ago) link

Wikipedia article quite good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku#Examples

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:29 (one month ago) link

Sorry, linked in the middle instead of the top.

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:30 (one month ago) link

Both readings are correct for 早口, and you certainly hear both said. There’s a lot of regional and personal variation in rendaku in any case.

American Fear of Scampos (Ed), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:35 (one month ago) link

Ah, yeah, so they are, thanks. Me, I can never quite remember the meaning of this one:
早速

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:51 (one month ago) link

Basically stuff that means something like recently, soon, nearby, just now right away etc. always gets jumbled up in my head.

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 01:53 (one month ago) link

Right now my recent rendaku issues center on a particular kanji that is already voiced

vs a lookalike with similar pronunciation that does have a rendaku and non-rendaku version

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 02:04 (one month ago) link

Anyway I feel kind of good that I aware of and know how to type the special rendaku kana ぢ and づ as in 鼻血(はなぢ) . Can’t think of a word for the other one, actually.

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 02:57 (one month ago) link

早まって喜ぶな。

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:02 (one month ago) link

^From Clozemaster, which I highly recommend.

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:03 (one month ago) link

Have been forging ahead on Duolingo but it just got insanely hard.

I was on the level
Memories and The Arts 1
And just got to
Weather 2 and Law
but the sentences are just too long at this point

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:08 (one month ago) link

So probably should just stick to Clozemaster

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:22 (one month ago) link

These three, but getting close:


What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 6 September 2021 20:22 (one month ago) link

I thought I was getting a feel for when to rendaku until I came to 早口, my brain really thinks this should be guchi dammit

Just got caught by the reverse situation with
非常口

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 6 September 2021 21:51 (one month ago) link

These two:

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 02:25 (one month ago) link


What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:20 (one month ago) link

I finally came up with a system to get it thru my thick skull lol
会社 kaisha - begins with a k sound, company
社会 shakai - begins with an s sound, society

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:24 (one month ago) link

That’s pretty good actually. I have something like that for another, hopefully will post soon.

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:28 (one month ago) link

Sitting here at level 20 going on 21 with a thousand reviews.

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 September 2021 12:07 (one month ago) link

A thousand years I’ve been imprisoned in this bottle studying wanikani!

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 September 2021 12:39 (one month ago) link

The Wanikani guys really like The Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, all three volumes, but I don’t know if I can buy too many physical volumes these days and the ebook seems suspect.

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 September 2021 21:18 (one month ago) link

I finally came up with a system to get it thru my thick skull lol
会社 kaisha - begins with a k sound, company
社会 shakai - begins with an s sound, society

This one just for me:
大会

What Does Blecch Mean to Me? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 12 September 2021 18:32 (one month ago) link

Sometimes a pair like this can confuse me:
時期
期待

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 17 September 2021 13:36 (one month ago) link

So I just started to dip into Japanese in anticipation of a trip (that is now very likely postponed) and because it intersting and came across "80/20 Japanese" which to my very novice eyes seems pretty good? anyone else have experience with this?

gbx, Friday, 17 September 2021 16:29 (one month ago) link

Not me, sorry.

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 17 September 2021 16:39 (one month ago) link

i found this particularly (ha ha) helpful: https://8020japanese.com/japanese-sentence-structure/

gbx, Friday, 17 September 2021 17:07 (one month ago) link

if you can get past the voice and creepiness, the first couple of videos here finally made japanese sentence structure click for me: hxxps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Friday, 17 September 2021 17:52 (one month ago) link

particularly the insight that every japanese sentence has a subject marked with が, whether explicit or implied by the context

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Friday, 17 September 2021 17:54 (one month ago) link

急行列車

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 18 September 2021 14:20 (one month ago) link

私はあれを知らない

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Saturday, 18 September 2021 20:46 (one month ago) link

https://onomatoproject.com/

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 18 September 2021 22:25 (one month ago) link

会議
議会
but this pair seems a little easier, famous last words

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 19 September 2021 13:10 (one month ago) link

せっかくの苦労もあだになった。

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 19 September 2021 15:05 (one month ago) link

Getting used to the terminal の

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 20 September 2021 00:53 (one month ago) link


Has a slightly different stylization that was throwing me off

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 24 September 2021 15:53 (three weeks ago) link

I have…a very big backlog of Wanikani reviews.

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 September 2021 21:50 (three weeks ago) link

These two

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 September 2021 23:21 (three weeks ago) link

Don’t look that similar but they also rhyme.

I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 September 2021 23:22 (three weeks ago) link

I splurged for Kodansha learners pack bundle of apps and it does seem kind of useful.

He POLLS So Much About These Zings (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 2 October 2021 14:24 (two weeks ago) link

weird that a bunch of radicals I got today only appear in exactly one kanji.

He POLLS So Much About These Zings (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 2 October 2021 23:19 (two weeks ago) link

Oh but then those kanji may have multiple vocabulary words

He POLLS So Much About These Zings (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 2 October 2021 23:21 (two weeks ago) link

These:

He POLLS So Much About These Zings (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 October 2021 01:12 (two weeks ago) link

i learned this word today 「お尻」

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Sunday, 3 October 2021 21:55 (two weeks ago) link

it's always a fun moment when you get to learn a word that has been adopted into English from Japanese and see what the kanji that make it up are - drawing letter = emoji, of course it's a letter that's also a drawing!

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Saturday, 9 October 2021 13:20 (one week ago) link

seems like the person behind Cure Dolly has died, RIP
https://www.patreon.com/posts/r-i-p-cure-dolly-57100247

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Sunday, 10 October 2021 21:27 (one week ago) link

the person who i'm pretty sure is behind the account was posting on their facebook on the day the patreon post got put up so i think the android sensei is just being retired. bummer though, i had grown quite fond of her quirks

diamonddave85​​ (diamonddave85), Monday, 11 October 2021 05:03 (one week ago) link

Do people really do Wanikani and never bother with the vocab? I just don’t see the point of that at all.

Spiral Scratchiti (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 15:50 (one week ago) link

Anyway, today they added a new kanji to my level!
https://community.wanikani.com/t/wanikani-content-additions-ongoing-from-april-29-2021/51058

Spiral Scratchiti (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 October 2021 18:13 (six days ago) link


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