David Fincher's serial killer chat 'em up MINDHUNTER

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Zodiac: The Series?


Number None, Tuesday, 1 August 2017 18:50 (two years ago) link

I'm down.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 1 August 2017 19:06 (two years ago) link

not familiar with much of the cast there except McCallany, who is pretty much always very good.

nomar, Tuesday, 1 August 2017 23:19 (two years ago) link

jesus god every time I think I'm at critical mass of shows to watch, Netflix just heaps another stack on top

Neanderthal, Tuesday, 1 August 2017 23:35 (two years ago) link

new fincher show means they're finally starting phase 2 of netflix shows

qualx, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 06:59 (two years ago) link

lol "already been renewed for season 2" is possibly the biggest pile of marketing bullshit ever

qualx, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 07:00 (two years ago) link

finally, a look at the psychology of a serial killer

the shape of a hot willie lumpkin (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 08:57 (two years ago) link

This is apparently based on or heavily influenced by the Ressler and Douglas books, right?

Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 14:12 (two years ago) link

yeah it's an official adaptation

Number None, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 14:34 (two years ago) link

but the characters are fictionalised I assume

Number None, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 14:34 (two years ago) link

It's like MANHUNTER but in the MIND

Eazy, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 14:36 (two years ago) link

I mean yeah the MIND OF A SERIAL KILLER stuff is sorta played out in the culture, but this isn't really that, or it is in a different kind of way. The beginning of real understanding of the pathologies that drove these guys, and the idea to interview the few in custody at the time, was extremely revolutionary in its day. I assume -- having read several books by both authors -- that that's what the series will concentrate on: the career risks and mental toll taken by these investigators by starting these projects.

Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 14:37 (two years ago) link

I am a fan of Douglas (and of Douglas' mentor Robert Ressler who wrote Whoever Fights Monsters)

I actually met Douglas a few years back & got his autograph. He was pretty cool.

Looking forward to seeing this!!

Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 15:23 (two years ago) link

Jonathan Groff is gr8 too

Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 15:23 (two years ago) link

Wait this isn't parody?

blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:00 (two years ago) link


Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:29 (two years ago) link

lol that's a bold choice of title if this isn't a zany spoof of Thomas Harris

blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:31 (two years ago) link

It is based on the book Mind Hunter: Inside FBI’s Elite Serial Crime Unit written by Mark Olshaker and John E. Douglas

Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:36 (two years ago) link

That clarification... does not affect the lol

it is still called MINDHUNTER

blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:42 (two years ago) link

I'm guessing this (not very good) British comedy is on nobody's radar


blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:43 (two years ago) link

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Harris never wrote anything called "Manhunter" anyway, Michael Mann did.

Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:44 (two years ago) link

Harris's Jack Crawford character was partially based on Douglas, which is presumably why he semi-borrowed the title back off Mann for his book. It's a rich tapestry

Number None, Wednesday, 2 August 2017 17:27 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

Available on Netflix from today, really looking forward to this.

nate woolls, Friday, 13 October 2017 07:53 (two years ago) link

I'll reserve judgment until I finish the season but halfway in I will say Holt McCallany as Fred Ward is A+

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 06:24 (two years ago) link

pvmic i just finshed binging the whole thing

omg so good


- I was skeptical that having Groff as Douglas’s substitute would mean Douglas would aggrandize himself & his achievements bc that’s the way he is, but he does not come off well by the end & i really like that, that really put it over the top for me

- the slow burn of neuroses between the three of them is fantastic, because a job like that cant not eat away at the very fabric of yr “self”

- casting of all the criminal subjects was incredible, and the actors were a+. from kemper to speck, not a bum note in any of them

- groff’s transition from ep 1 to ep 10, physically, emotionally, is SO good. anna torv is magical and i love her forever

love it

kinda want to watch it again? #saddo

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 15 October 2017 06:37 (two years ago) link

oh and holt mccallany was grizzled tv cop PERFECT

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 15 October 2017 06:38 (two years ago) link

3 eps to go here...

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 06:41 (two years ago) link

Veg said everything I was gonna say. Really enjoyed the hell out of this. The lead actors and the guys playing all the killers are all excellent.

I’m not hugely fascinated by serial killers themselves but I love the detecting and psychology angle so this was squarely in my wheelhouse. It felt like Zodiac: the Series in a lot of ways.

The Marmadook (latebloomer), Sunday, 15 October 2017 07:52 (two years ago) link

Ha I obviously didn’t see the post st the top of the thread

The Marmadook (latebloomer), Sunday, 15 October 2017 07:58 (two years ago) link

oh and holt mccallany was grizzled tv cop PERFECT

I'm only 2 eps in but man is it nice to see McCallany again. Lights Out was a fine little series.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 13:21 (two years ago) link

don't think i've seen Groff play hetero before

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 October 2017 13:32 (two years ago) link

that was a little weird at first, not gonna lie

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:12 (two years ago) link

I've really hardened my heart against this because I'm not much of a fan of Fincher, serial killer fic and stuff where the FBI are the good guys. But I suspect from what I'm reading it will probably win me over and become a mucho guilty pleasure watch.

calzino, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:35 (two years ago) link

how bloody/disturbing is this show

na (NA), Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:42 (two years ago) link

How violent/gory is this? The premise seems pretty bloodless, but are there reenactments or flashbacks or even just autopsies/ lots of photos?

ha xp

rob, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:43 (two years ago) link

ha weird

na (NA), Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:45 (two years ago) link

basically I want to watch this (loved Zodiac) but my partner is an automatic no on serial killer shit, and I'm squeamish enough myself these days to not necessarily want to spend 10 hours marinating in murder naturalism.

rob, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:47 (two years ago) link

99% of “gore” is crime scene photographs. there’s no dramatization of the murders themselves vis flashbacks or anything - the horrors are mostly communicated through conversation

there is one v shocking moment in ep1 that is quite gory but passes by v quickly

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:14 (two years ago) link

It’s not very gory overall. There is a scene in the first episode with some brief gore but it’s not serial killer-related.

Apart from that it’s mostly just crime scene photos and graphic verbal descriptions of crimes.

*LOTS* of ookiness and creepy shit though.

The Marmadook (latebloomer), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:16 (two years ago) link


The Marmadook (latebloomer), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:16 (two years ago) link

yeah, and the crime scene photos are not lingered upon & are faintly colored or black & white
often by the time you realize what you are seeing it’s already off camera

def not for the faint hearted but nowhere near the gorefest you might expect

fincher himself has described the show as mainly being about conversations & that def bears out

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:17 (two years ago) link

perfect, thanks!

rob, Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:34 (two years ago) link

One of my favorite bits was the looks Anna Torv kept shooting at Groff during their first meeting when he'd interject. Close up as he writes in notebook: "BOOK?"

nomar, Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:54 (two years ago) link

enjoying this so far but Brandy is otm here

Fincher: this is Debbie, she's a real human woman
Me: lmaoooo oh for sure man

— BranDIE Jensen (@BrandyLJensen) October 15, 2017

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:00 (two years ago) link

on put more simply Debbie is basically the Cool Girl from the Gone Girl rant

Otherwise this has been v enjoyable

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:04 (two years ago) link

*quickly crosses off “looking for my Debbie (watch Mindhunter!!)” from my dating profile*

mh, Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:33 (two years ago) link

great we've established that this drama contains fictional characters

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:56 (two years ago) link

idk man some characters resemble types of people you find out there in the world, some are more like narrative devices with legs

mh, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:11 (two years ago) link

Debbie’s introductory scenes are silly maybe but she didn’t strike me as unrealistic past that?

ryan, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:15 (two years ago) link

I've been re-watching Fringe so it's mildly amusing to see Anna Torv play a Boston-based FBI consultant. Am glad she's getting regular work again too.

I'm about two-thirds in and this is pretty good! And despite the dour subject matter, it's genuinely funny at points - that one killer who couldn't stop crying, the seat-switching scene in the airplane, Holt McCallany in general.

Roz, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:50 (two years ago) link

csi was very little investigation -> conclusion and nearly all wrapped up in premise of the crime and the forensic process

it was always just the creepiest suspect

untuned mass damper (mh), Monday, 9 September 2019 23:48 (five months ago) link

nah it always had grissom ~ look in their eyes and know~ it was fun but dumb as fuck once youd seen a few of them

apart from the one where the busbhad crashed that was legit good

theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 00:32 (five months ago) link

I think they did a good job casting the killers, they are so creepy

Dan S, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 01:13 (five months ago) link

in this show, not csi, fuck that

Dan S, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 01:19 (five months ago) link

*every Mindhunter episode*

HOLDEN: did you kill her?

KILLER: nope

HOLDEN: we heard your dick game was weaksauce

KILLER: I killed her and ate her arm for breakfast, yeah

This scenario doesn't play out at all in the second season except for maaaaybe the Berkowitz scene.

ryan, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 03:01 (five months ago) link

I've only seen two episodes of S2 so far, but that scenario is definitely a feature of the Berkowitz scene

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this, limiting myself to one episode a week because I'm watching it with a friend

Dan S, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 03:11 (five months ago) link

Finally finished S@, was great. The run of scenes at the end of the last episode -- Carr dumping the magazine, Tench in the empty house, Holden watching everything getting swept away, the BDK guy doing his thing and then the intensely creepy Peter Gabriel song over the credits: fucking hell.

And according to some websites, there were “sexcapades.” (James Morrison), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 03:12 (five months ago) link

thin man movies obv best at it

― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Monday, September 9, 2019 7:33 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Now I'm trying to imagine this series with Nick and Nora Charles instead of Holden and Bill.

I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 13:04 (five months ago) link

Martinis with Manson?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 13:14 (five months ago) link


But here’s a curious fact. As the number of serial killings has supposedly fallen, so too has the rate of murder cases solved—or “cleared,” in detective lingo. In 1965, the U.S. homicide clearance rate was 91 percent. By 2017, it had dropped to 61.6 percent, one of the lowest rates in the Western world. In other words, about 40 percent of the time, murderers get away with murder.

Some experts believe that serial killers are responsible for a significant number of these unsolved murders. Thomas Hargrove, the founder of the Murder Accountability Project, a nonprofit that compiles data on homicide, has examined how many unsolved murders are linked by DNA evidence. He believes that at least 2 percent of murders are committed by serial offenders—translating to about 2,100 unidentified serial killers. Michael Arntfield, a retired police detective and the author of 12 books on serial murder, agrees that the FBI’s projections are off (he blames patchy data, among other things) but thinks the number of active serial killers is more like 3,000 or 4,000.

j., Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:14 (five months ago) link

you could fit all the serial killers in the US into a football stadium, so are they really that big of a threat?

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 13:57 (five months ago) link

depends on what you do with them after i guess

theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 13:59 (five months ago) link

Are those stats taking into account the number/percentage of false convictions? It's easy to clear a murder if you arrest and convict someone who didn't do it. I've seen estimates that anywhere from 5-12% of murder convictions are wrongful, which is a lot!

I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 14:19 (five months ago) link

lol darraghmac

But everyone in that stadium will kill multiple times, so that's, what, 6 stadiums of victims?

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Thursday, 12 September 2019 00:38 (five months ago) link

turn it into the world’s biggest royal rumble & make them all kill each other

oh wah he’s not your “type” you cant kill “just anyone” cry me a river I SAID TO THE DEATH

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 12 September 2019 03:26 (five months ago) link

I've been checking my bootleg place weekly, and they still don't have the second season in. I'm rewatching the first season for now. I think episode 8--a return interview with Brudos, the foot-tickling principal, and hiring a new transcriber--is one of the best episodes I can think of in any show ever. The writing--every line from start to finish--is masterful.

clemenza, Saturday, 14 September 2019 00:42 (five months ago) link

I knew that the song at the end of the seres was "Intruder" by PG but I'd nevr paid attention to its lyrics before, yike.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Saturday, 14 September 2019 03:50 (five months ago) link

Excellent use also of Marianne Faithfull's "Guilt" during the end credits of a recent episode. Made me re-visit Broken English.

henry s, Saturday, 14 September 2019 04:19 (five months ago) link

Gave up on a bootleg, signed up for Netflix (have to watch on my computer, but I'm adapting). Anyway, very solid for the first three episodes. Don't want to read the thread till I finish. Albert Jones reminds me of Tim Meadows--I keep waiting for jokes.

clemenza, Monday, 16 September 2019 02:51 (five months ago) link

Albert Jones is extremely good and--as a friend of mine pointed out--the smartest guy on the show. Focusing on the Fulton County house, making sure they have eyes on Williams' dad, clearly focused in a way that the others are not.

Ford and Tench being spot-on in some areas is par for the course but they're more commonly way offtm, which is partially due to them finding their way into this new form of crime analysis and also this type of crime being not nearly as predictable as they might think.

The car interview scene w/the brother of the early BTK victim is a total microcosm of the show in a nutshell in terms of just its sheer quality, its empathy, the probing and relevant questions, the local cop shocked by the methods, the understandably (based on their test subjects) inaccurate assessment of who BTK is, and the paranoid creepiness of someone being "out there" which is probably most valuable to this genre of crime story.

I think one strength of that entire storyline is in its banality, in its inaction, he's out there being very patient and controlled and cautious and aside from one error in judgment (first scene of the season) he seems to learn from his mistakes, biding his time, not in a desperate hurry for the next victim, but he's continuing to keep his buzz going, ready for the next murder when he gets the chance. This season is 1980-81, roughly, and BTK didn't kill again until 1985.

omar little, Monday, 16 September 2019 05:06 (five months ago) link

So serious question: presumably the child murders ended after they caught Williams? or did the rate of deaths just drop back to the Atlanta average?

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Monday, 16 September 2019 05:22 (five months ago) link

i believe that to be the case, yes

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Monday, 16 September 2019 16:40 (five months ago) link

back to average and, I presume, either solved or not the same circumstances or MO as the Atlanta Child Murders (as were some actually included as part of the case, such as the girl kidnapped from her home).

ryan, Monday, 16 September 2019 17:50 (five months ago) link

Just finished the Manson episode. (Or first, anyway--not sure if there's more.) Have to give it some thought. I liked the reversal with Tench and Holden at the party; Holden the clinical, by-the-book straight-arrow, Tench the rogue storyteller.

clemenza, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 23:53 (five months ago) link

Leslie Van Houten wasn't mentioned...must be because she's alive and still in prison.

clemenza, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 23:54 (five months ago) link

So is Tex Watson though

nate woolls, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 00:11 (five months ago) link

I wonder why they'd leave her out then. She participated in the LaBianca murders.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 04:34 (five months ago) link

Episode 6: the Paul Bateson story seemed a little thin? Doing a little reading on him--he was in The Exorcist!

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 September 2019 15:30 (five months ago) link

I was shockingly old when I learned clemenza has a bootleg place.

I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Wednesday, 18 September 2019 17:01 (five months ago) link

three weeks pass...

John Douglas (model for Holden and bits of Tench, and co-author of the book that gives this series its name) is unconvinced they got their man in Atlanta.

Do you think the right man was caught? The Atlanta police reopened the case earlier this year.
I never thought that Wayne Williams did all of those cases. There are other cases that should not be on the list.

(adding, from wikipedia and I think from his book, that he thinks the authorities have an idea who the other killers are: "It isn't a single offender, and the truth isn't pleasant.")

mark s, Saturday, 12 October 2019 19:03 (four months ago) link

three months pass...

sorry to hear it, I really liked the first two seasons

Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 04:43 (one month ago) link


i say we kill them & hide the bodies

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 16 January 2020 06:05 (one month ago) link


Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 16 January 2020 06:06 (one month ago) link

Hmm, not sure this is a cancellation per se, just that Fincher wants to finish his movie about Herman Mankiewicz (which started principal photography two months ago). Not too excited about a S3 in 2021 without some/all of the leads though, if that's what this ultimately means. As long as they don't lose the reel-to-reel in the credits. That's my favourite.

Michael Jones, Thursday, 16 January 2020 10:52 (one month ago) link

luckily no big-deal movie stars in the lot, I bet it comes back cast intact in '21 or '22

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 13:20 (one month ago) link

And it's Fincher. I'm sure these folks can move some things around to make time for him down the line.

Dr. Teeth and the Women (Old Lunch), Thursday, 16 January 2020 13:42 (one month ago) link

hope so, that second season was great

Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 January 2020 14:12 (one month ago) link

luckily no big-deal movie stars in the lot, I bet it comes back cast intact in '21 or '22

― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:20 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

groff is one of the stars of FROZEN and FROZEN 2 but i guess voice roles are different

na (NA), Thursday, 16 January 2020 15:09 (one month ago) link

he's supposedly cast in Matrix 4

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 16 January 2020 15:20 (one month ago) link

as the matrix, I hope

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 15:22 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2019 season is nominated in the 2019 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2019 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends January 31

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (4 minimum, 25 maximum, organized by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail by end of day today. It'll take five minutes; get to it!

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 31 January 2020 14:29 (two weeks ago) link

I spent my 5 minutes resetting all my ilx bookmarks :-S

kinder, Friday, 31 January 2020 14:59 (two weeks ago) link

I've been rewatching the first season this past week. Loved this line from Shepard: "I like you, Bill. I don't particularly like him, but I like you." And later, when he disdainfully gives them their grant money, the way he says "Have a nice day."

clemenza, Friday, 31 January 2020 15:37 (two weeks ago) link

is S2 worth watching?

I wanna publish memes and rage against machimes (rip van wanko), Friday, 31 January 2020 15:42 (two weeks ago) link


clemenza, Friday, 31 January 2020 15:45 (two weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...


BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Wednesday, 19 February 2020 12:38 (yesterday) link


terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 19 February 2020 16:16 (yesterday) link


Generous Grant for Stepladder Creamery (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 19 February 2020 16:17 (yesterday) link


Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 19 February 2020 17:07 (yesterday) link

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