Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

I got one! In 'A Quiet Passion' Emily Dickinson sits upstairs and can hear a piano recital downstairs, and the song they are playing is 'I'm All Alone' from Spamalot.

Edith Bowman asks Tarantino about Cat People and Across 110th St in last week's Soundtracking podcast, and he says that during the year of press for Pulp Fiction, as a young idiot he would often opine that it was bad to use any song that had been used well in another film.

Making me...I won't ask. He was so much older then, he's dumber than that now.

It seems like such an obvious, commonsense point to me: if a film or TV show has essentially taken ownership of a song by using it unforgettably--"Stuck in the Middle with You," "In Dreams," "Don't Stop Believin'," "Tomorrow Never Knows"--unless it's absolutely crucial to what you're doing (or unless you're engaging in a game of "I can top that"--better not miss), why wouldn't you simply pick another song? When "Out of Time" showed up in Hollywood, my thoughts went something like this: "Interesting...certainly fits...I wonder if he's seen Coming Home?...of course he's seen Coming Home, he's Quentin Tarantino...I like this, but it was better in Coming Home." I'm not sure that's what he wants me thinking.

Having not seen Coming Home, which version of "Out of Time" did Ashby use--the 'Strings' version that QT also used, or the real Stones version from After-Math (UK)/Flowers/More Hot Rocks?

chris farlowe baby

The real version? Here it is, you can check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8GzIdqTlVQ

(The song starts around 2:45.)

he used a different version tbf (xpost!)

and he goes into detail on the thinking behind the two choices cited, no need to just speculate. (I don't think they mention it specifically, but I suspect she's leading towards Out Of Time when she asks about picking songs that connect with the scene - he responds that that's usually something he avoids doing, having lyrics match or comment on screen action.) You're also not bothered by fully half his films using unoriginal score from other films, because you don't notice it! A minuscule proportion of Once Upon viewers will have seen Coming Home.

if a film or TV show has essentially taken ownership of a song by using it unforgettably--"Stuck in the Middle with You," "In Dreams," "Don't Stop Believin',"

look if this was the rule, Patty Jenkins wouldn't have been allowed to use Don't Stop Believin' in Monster.

XP That's the 'real' (i.e. actually performed by the band) one. The version QT used is Jagger's demo for Chris Farlowe, wherein he's backed by a bunch of session guys. This version was released on Metamorphosis, was a modest hit single in the mid-'70s, and ergo an anachronism in OUATIH.

(xpost) You're right--I don't notice that, so of course it doesn't bother me. As for songs, I'm hardly saying it's a rule, or that you're not allowed to do it, just that it's generally a bad idea. You're defending this point to death...As I've said more than once, I liked the film, enough to see it twice. But I sometimes get the feeling that anything less than awestruck subservience to the genius of QT is unacceptable.

Stones version, 1966 UK album track, cut-down version released on US compilations in 1967 and 1972: used in Coming Home, 1978. (Probably this version used in the American remake of Life On Mars starring Keitel and Imperioli.)

Chris Farlowe, 1966 #1 hit single

Mash-up version by Allen Klein, featuring Jagger guide vox, as demoed for Farlowe, over the produced Farlowe backing - 1975 single: used in Once Upon Hollywood, 2019


such an obvious, commonsense point to me

It's totally a good rule of thumb, but (eg) Cat People wouldn't have anything like the same effect if it was a new song written about setting fire to Nazis in a cinema - it's the recontextualising that makes it startling.

(xposts again! I'm not trying to attack yr opinions, just knocking ideas around, thinking abt this stuff having seen Basterds three days ago.)

unless it's absolutely crucial to what you're doing

everything is absolutely crucial to every director, at least in their own minds, particularly quentin tarantino, is pretty much how i break it down to an extent

he says that during the year of press for Pulp Fiction, as a young idiot he would often opine that it was bad to use any song that had been used well in another film

I searched out that section of the podcast, and that's not exactly what he says.

"I'm coming up with all these theories (while promoting Pulp Fiction) about 'You can do this, but you can't do that. You can do this, but I can't do that. I would never do that, and anybody who does that is an idiot.'" He wasn't saying he was an idiot then, he was busy calling other people idiots. He then goes on to say that one of his impulses for using songs from other films is one of the things I proposed above, that he thinks he can take that song and use it better (or sometimes, just differently).

So that's fine, there is some thought at work. But to reiterate, I don't think he uses "Out of Time" better, and he most definitely doesn't use "Mrs. Robinson" better (which I haven't even bothered to mention yet, it was so weirdly clumsy).

I was paraphrasing “I didn’t know what I was talking about, I’d only made two films, but I’d say (etc)” as ‘young idiot’

on this film and Demy's Model Shop

https://letterboxd.com/keithuhlich/film/once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood/2/

Can mods replace all morbz posts in this theead with https://youtu.be/0xGXeWVOtgM

Are you saying u want to fuck Morbs

just trying to help u out w/ further viewing, yer welcome

Not sure if these have been posted or not--we've probably exhausted the subject anyway.

http://www.gq.com/story/mary-ramos-quentin-tarantino-interview

http://thefilmstage.com/news/listen-quentin-tarantino-and-paul-thomas-anderson-discuss-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood/?fbclid=IwAR2Mm2ejWdgJpszgZTvd-Zld46gikU9nWqzk9_T0bQdOUhcYVi4xdH-UNwE

fbclid=IwAR2Mm2ejWdgJpszgZTvd-Zld46gikU9nWqzk9_T0bQdOUhcYVi4xdH-UNwE

omg that DGA convo looks awesome — thanks clemenza!!!

and mary ramos is a genius, i love hearing about how she works with QT, they have such a cool symbiotic relationship

I finally have enough free hours to go see this in a few days

This exchange from the DGA convo above made me imagine if DiCaprio had starred in Punch Drunk Love.

PTA: Leo is consistently–when he decides to be–the f*cking funniest actor in Hollywood. Right? When he flips that switch….

QT: But truly, what’s so funny about him is that he’s not playing it funny. He’s playing it so f*cking serious. And that’s what so ridiculous.

Good interview with the author of one of my favorite Manson books, Creepy Crawling: Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous Family here, which briefly touches on the film.

I guess what I most want to say about Bugliosi is that he was some kind of genius: I’ve been shocked, in this summer of the 50th anniversary, to see how many of the folks in my social media bubble—good Leftists, anti-mass incarceration, et cetera—are still fully in Bugliosi’s thrall. The book—and miniseries—were huge: if you go back and reread the book and remember how it freaked you out when you were 12 it will be a disappointment. It’s pretty flat and has been passed on the highway by much gorier and detailed works. But Bugliosi’s logic—especially the “Helter Skelter” theory or apocalyptic race war—keeps getting repeated as gospel. By, like Boots Riley! Why could Boots Riley repeat what is essentially cop-knowledge-on-steroids? I know you know that Mekons line about how turning journalists into heroes takes some doing. So I’ll just leave this question by saying the same thing about Bugliosi: he turned himself into the hero of the story. And he really was a petty square who made his bones with this case and then appointed himself Big Boss of Manson. But he was just tall—compared to Manson. That’s all.

otm

Helter Skelter gives a good overview of the bungled investigation & the insanity of the trial proceedings but his argument was total bunk

Someone else will want to gleefully post this, so let me beat him to it:

http://letterboxd.com/jrosenbaum2002/film/once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood/

What is Rosenbaum's history with Tarantino? Maybe I'm wrong, but sounds like the film never had a chance.

he's seen his crappy movies

Oh ziiiing

fuck can we send a crew to check tarantino after that ruthless hit

I liked it Morbs

incredibly I am not the only person on Earth who finds him morally and aesthetically reprehensible

really loved this. easy and breezy with an atmosphere of low hovering doom. california dreamin’

yesterday i sat next to a guy on the Tube who was watching:

1) a "cam" version of this i.e. recorded surreptitiously on a video camera at a movie theatre
2) on his phone
3) and he was impatiently fast-forwarding every few seconds. to get to the "good parts" i guess

prob just needed to get the gist of its politics so he could review it

lmao

lol

irl lol

Finally saw this, it was enjoyably breezy. Did NOT like the Bruce Lee scene at all (when I was a kid I idolized him, read a bunch of biographies, did martial arts for years, etc), especially when it came to people in the theater laughing at his Bruce Lee noises + getting emasculated by Pitt. And I'm in the camp that did not feel much (if any) catharsis at the end, the same trick that was so powerful in Inglorious Basterds didn't work for me here. Most of my emotional involvement had to do with the dog aka the best character, particularly when I thought Brad Pitt had been shot in the head at the end (what would that dog do without him?!).

Took my bathroom break during the Bruce Dern scene, did I miss anything?

hot foot action

Old man feet would have been a nice change from hippie girl feet

A+ cowboy wallpaper

re : the Bruce Lee scene, I dunno, I've grown loving his movies and admiring him but I found the sequence silly and funny.
It's OK and sound to mock people you admire/respect imo (+ QT made a 2 volume movie basically in homage to BL and the whole genre...).

i liked that bruce lee kept reappearing through the movie in brief training scenes, movie felt like it had more affection for him than reported

I just saw this. I wasn’t in a hurry but ended up loving it. I think the ending was more effective than Inglorious Bastards. I genuinely didn’t know what was going to happen.

For soundtrack fiends, here's almost two hours of music performances in megacut form from Playboy After Dark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoWek-2LG7w

Bunch of things I hadn't seen before: Marvin Gaye doing "Chained"; Canned Heat not long before Al Wilson's death; an earlier Steppenwolf clip than the one I linked upthread; a very awkward intro to the Cowsills; and Jackie DeShannon being backed by a young Barry White.

The only full-audience laugh was when Leo asked how to make the flame thrower less hot, which actually was pretty funny

we had a much livelier audience, they were laughing at everything including the bloodshed O_o

I laughed at the bloodshed too, partly surprised bark at the audacity/extremity, mainly the fact that the whole scene is explicitly comic from start to finish

also the bit where Cliff turns on the light switch, which works especially well in a darkened theater