Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

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Well, here we go.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/quentin-tarantino-prepping-new-movie-tackling-manson-murders-1020165

Barely any details there except that it's coming together.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:15 (three years ago) link

huh

does not really sound like a good idea tbh

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:16 (three years ago) link

sounds like it *could* be a good idea, you read so much about the aura around L.A. during this period and the spookiness of these murders (and other crimes of the era) and the whole sinister vibe surrounding so much of celebrity culture (and the spookiness of the hills, which was so heavy it even permeated the L.A. parts of "Mad Men" even without anything being explicitly mentioned.) but it would take another director who's capable of pulling that off.

nomar, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:19 (three years ago) link

otoh another opportunity for Tarantino to liberally use the n-word

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:19 (three years ago) link

Have to say that Karina Longworth's deep dive into it all was the first time I ever really paid attention to the full sweep of the story. Scroll to the bottom for the first one, work your way along -- very illuminating. (And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Tarantino heard this and that's what gave him a new spark to pursue this, etc.)

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/?category=CharlesManson%27sHollywood

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:25 (three years ago) link

I liked the Aquarius series on NBC (w/David Duchovny), which covered that scene and LA in general, but it looks like it's been cancelled.

nickn, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 00:07 (three years ago) link

I seem to recall Tarantino talking about the Manson murders in a TV interview years ago. Considering his love of that era of films and stuff, I'm sure Helter Skelter the book and movie was something he probably read and saw as a kid.

earlnash, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 00:13 (three years ago) link

How has QT avoided Charlie up until now? They were made to mate and produce offspring.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 00:26 (three years ago) link

There's an image.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 00:31 (three years ago) link

I couldn't find it online, but I swear that thing with Tarantino and Manson coming up might have been on an old episode of Politically Incorrect. It was some type of panel show where Manson came up as a topic.

earlnash, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 00:46 (three years ago) link

Why the hell not? At least it isn't set pre-1965.

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:02 (three years ago) link

(Rob Zombie and Bret Easton Ellis were supposed to develop a mini-series in this vein years ago; I'd love for them to be involved somehow, and won't hold my breath for that.)

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:03 (three years ago) link

Ha, was about to come here and say this could go very bad and end up some Rob Zombie parade of grotesqueries.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:21 (three years ago) link

yeah, the fact that he'll be working around an actual event kind of throws me, and might impact the *enjoyment* of the film. Does black humor work better when it's not colored by real events? Might be better if he used a veiled, fictional version of the event as a keystone around which to explore other shit

calstars, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:25 (three years ago) link

He could cast Sam Jackson as Manson.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:26 (three years ago) link

(x)xpost

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm also wary in that I probably just really don't want to see a movie on this subject.

some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:26 (three years ago) link

Don't trust an Elvis guy to make a Beatles movie.

pplains, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:32 (three years ago) link

I'm just glad he's not at Reservoir Dogs sequel time yet

calstars, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:40 (three years ago) link

time for the victims' families to take 'preemptive' action

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:42 (three years ago) link

Reservoir Doges

calstars, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:44 (three years ago) link

what if this is the event that sets off a Polanski/Tarantino feud

mh, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:45 (three years ago) link

xp why did you make me google it

http://i.imgur.com/Impkc8r.png

Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:47 (three years ago) link

lol

calstars, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:48 (three years ago) link

QT: No, it's gonna be great - you think Tim bled from his stomach in Dogs? Ha! This time –

DANIELA: Quentin...

QT: No, hold on. BLOOD EVERYWHERE! Total 70s drive-in. And even if Harvey said he can get me a couple of White Album songs –

DANIELA: Quentin...

QT: Wait! So like instead of all that Helter Skelter crap, I'M GONNA USE MONKEES SONGS. Right? Get it?

DANIELA: QUENTIN.

QT: Oh, fuck. Why didn't you tell me sooner?

http://i.imgur.com/0COQZqS.jpg

QT: *Do you think he heard anything I said?*

pplains, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:49 (three years ago) link

hahahaha

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:51 (three years ago) link

RP looks like the bastard child of an elf and a hobbit there

calstars, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 01:52 (three years ago) link

This guy is nothing more than a culture fetishist. This is gross and I hope it bottoms out.

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:33 (three years ago) link

Does black humor work better when it's not colored by real events? Might be better if he used a veiled, fictional version of the event as a keystone around which to explore other shit

lol that's a horrible idea. who wants to see a not-Manson movie. and James Cameron should have renamed Titanic to Unsinkable Ship

pretty excited for this. it will have a killer soundtrack at the very least.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:37 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I'm sure Cory Labianca will appreciate hearing that "killer soundtrack" while flipping through the channels in a couple years.

Quentin Tarantino, go away forever.

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:56 (three years ago) link

Guess Charlie smoking Red Apples in this world will make sense then.

http://i.imgur.com/CGjl7OB.jpg

pplains, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 02:59 (three years ago) link

There is a great film to be made about the Manson murders (just like there was a great film to be made about the O.J. case), but no, I doubt very much that Tarantino's the guy to make it.

clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 04:34 (three years ago) link

I really liked the first episode of the Karina Longworth series. I don't know this story well. The film history lens she brings seems apt.

jmm, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 04:42 (three years ago) link

Yeah it works very well, she's great for contemporary context.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 05:59 (three years ago) link

I love You Must Remember This but don't get why everyone thinks the Manson season is the best one, she does a good job but it's such an overexplored subject? But I'm also just not a true crime guy.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 08:50 (three years ago) link

i can't put my finger on which movie villain or sci-fi character tarantino reminds me of here:

http://cdn4.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/scale_crop_768_433/2017/07/quentin_tarantino_-_getty_-_h_2017.jpg

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 08:56 (three years ago) link

Dude from Phantasm seems to be the most frequent reference.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 08:59 (three years ago) link

Tarantino basically looks like the vampire version of himself from from dusk till dawn these days

blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 09:02 (three years ago) link

He reminds me of Bad Cooper tbh

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 09:04 (three years ago) link

Thinking David Mitchell's Evil Genius character

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CTmLU9VOJlM/0.jpg

There's a great movie to be made about the Manson family that focuses on the psychological path of the women. Tarantino's not the guy to make it.

полезные дурак (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 11:10 (three years ago) link

There's a great movie to be made about the Manson family that focuses on the psychological path of the women.
― полезные дурак (Sanpaku)

That'd be one way to do it. Another would be to take the approach of Jeff Guinn's excellent biography (or simply adapt Guinn's book) and meticulously place Manson and his followers in the general breakdown of the moment--this cipher who wanders into a place and a time that's a perfect storm waiting to happen. It would have to be serious, lengthy (I'll again mention the O.J. film), and completely immersed in the material, not about the filmmaker. Tarantino has (had?) strengths, but the first and third there are not among them. He'll have Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten debating whether Green Acres or The Beverly Hillbillies is better.

clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 13:16 (three years ago) link

I want to believe that Tarantino was finally inspired to pull the trigger after reading Mike Love's autobiography.

Dippin' Sauce on my Nice New Slacks (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 13:20 (three years ago) link

I love You Must Remember This but don't get why everyone thinks the Manson season is the best one, she does a good job but it's such an overexplored subject? But I'm also just not a true crime guy.

Never made that claim myself! Pretty much all the seasons are remarkable.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 13:23 (three years ago) link

There's something about a Manson movie as filtered through Dennis Wilson's increasingly-panicked accounts to an increasingly-incredulous Mike Love that I find darkly hilarious.

Dippin' Sauce on my Nice New Slacks (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 13:24 (three years ago) link

they should adopt from "On His Own Words":

http://images.gr-assets.com/books/1347289621l/651024.jpg

there was a really good documentary with interviews with the women and they were sitting on top of desks holding machine guns during the interview. i tried finding it but there are so many Manson movies.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 13:30 (three years ago) link

Couldn't Tarantino be the subject of Charles Manson's next project instead?

— NOT RECONCILED (@NickPinkerton) July 12, 2017

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 14:18 (three years ago) link

LOLLLLLLL

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 14:37 (three years ago) link

Or there's this, from the LAist comment section:

Cochise • 11 hours ago
Presumably Sharon Tate beats Manson's brains out with a baseball bat in the Tarantino version.

Josefa, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 15:01 (three years ago) link

I liked Cliff's mansion better than George's mansion

Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 20 March 2020 01:43 (four months ago) link

mansion murders movie

thou shalt not covid thy neighbour's wife (darraghmac), Friday, 20 March 2020 01:54 (four months ago) link

Been thinking about this again and one thing I was wondering about is that Cliff killed his wife. Why does Tarantino add this fact and the quick scene showing him pointing the speargun at her? Does this imply that Cliff killed her intentionally and got away with it (maybe dumped her body overboard)? Or does it mean Cliff killed her accidentally and was acquitted?

I guess this is to add an element of danger to Cliff. But then why does Tarantino make her (the wife) such a nag? So that the viewer can still like Cliff even though he killed his wife? That frankly seems cheap and sleazy. Par for the course with Tarantino, I guess.

Sorry if this was discussed above. I read the entire thread but don't recall if it was and wasn't going to read it all again.

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:58 (four months ago) link

It basically means that women who nag deserve to die.

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:59 (four months ago) link

I mean it sucks but it is a cliff’s-eye-view and cliff is a psycho

felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:00 (four months ago) link

it's also a memory within a memory in Cliff's mind, no wonder it skews his way

flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:03 (four months ago) link

the deeper into flashbacks the movie gets, the more overloaded and confused the semiotics become: hence the bizarre and very obvious Thunderball outfit/spear gun

flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:04 (four months ago) link

xp Is he a psycho? I didn't get that at all.

I didn't take the flashback as Cliff's memory as much as Tarantino showing us what happened, but that is more interesting/less troubling. I guess it could be a manifestation of Cliff's guilt over his wife's death, wondering if the accident was really an accident given how his wife was nagging him. That would be a more charitable (to Cliff) interpretation.

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:10 (four months ago) link

If he murdered his wife he may be a psycho yes!

felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:13 (four months ago) link

To me, the point is to sow doubt about Cliff. There's this unknown, dark undercurrent to his character that lives in the realm of Hollywood rumors. That scene could be his memory, but it could also be the way the Zoe Bell character and others imagined it went down. It's never resolved, but just lives there as a signal that he has a dangerous side that is rarely seen.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:15 (four months ago) link

Missing the key part that his wife was played by Rebecca Gayheart so cliff killed her before she could run over that kid.

omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:15 (four months ago) link

xxp Lol, fair enough.

I just would find it hard to square psycho-Cliff with the presumably genuine concern for the possibility that Spahn was being taken advantage of (or worse) by the Manson family at the ranch.

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:16 (four months ago) link

I remember in the first cycle of this thread I was very mad at ppl for not clocking the reference to Natalie Wood even tho the wife is literally called Natalie

felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:17 (four months ago) link

I think what happened on the boat is obv left vague and he’s iirc a little drunk and it’s open as to whether or not it was accidental. Cliff is obv a low key bummed out dude at this point in his life who’s living in a shitty trailer so the implication is that whatever he did cost him a lot, which isn’t to say he wasn’t at fault nor didn’t deserve that kind of minor karmic justice.

omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:23 (four months ago) link

it is played for laughs that he killed his wife on the boat for nagging him. it doesn't really seem particularly ambiguous in the least. I've already posted that here

COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:27 (four months ago) link

like him having the harpoon, his wife nagging at him, it cuts away from the scene with the implication that this is the moment he harpooned her

COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:28 (four months ago) link

in the theatre I was in this got a reasonably big laugh

COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:28 (four months ago) link

Moodles otm

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:30 (four months ago) link

Jeez, Cliff not the only psycho I guess,

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:31 (four months ago) link

xp

Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:31 (four months ago) link

I def think it's there to both make him *less* likable and explain why he's basically an industry bottom feeder, w/a pathological devotion to his only patron

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:34 (four months ago) link

the only guy who takes care of him is the guy who's ok with him having harpooned his wife, the extreme manifestation of their implicit "bros before hoes" bromance.

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:35 (four months ago) link

so much so that he doesn't even believe it

flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:36 (four months ago) link

The whole thing of him killing his wife is obv part of why stuntmaster Kurt Russell doesnt want to hire him (and stuntmaster’s wife hates him for that reason too) but between that & the war veteran part gives extra backstory/color as to why this affable handsome stunt guy is Rick’s manservant instead of working regularly

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:38 (four months ago) link

the reason we only see the lead up is no one other than cliff knows the truth. It’s not ambiguous as to whether or not he was responsible, we just don’t know if he decided to pull the trigger there.

omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:39 (four months ago) link

or what shakey said

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:39 (four months ago) link

(xpost)

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:39 (four months ago) link

And yeah it makes him this more dangerous-seeming character than just an ordinary stuntman, he’s clearly working through some bleak shit whatever the truth about his past may be.

omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:40 (four months ago) link

like in Cliff’s mind he kicked Bruce Lee’s ass and maybe his wife was a goddamn nag and it is all with good reason, taking ppl down a peg or two to his level

but -outside his own head- in the actual world of movie production he is arrogant unpredictable sonofabitch who has basically made himself unhireable

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:43 (four months ago) link

^^^

(although he may be genuinely humble at this point / believing he's living in penance for past transgressions)

I didn't take the flashback as Cliff's memory as much as Tarantino showing us what happened

Definitely his memory, he reacts to it when we cut back to present-day taps aff Cliff on the roof

Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:07 (four months ago) link

just because it's his memory doesn't mean he's an unreliable narrator also

COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:20 (four months ago) link

No, his reliability is unknown, not least of all because he is not a real person, but a character in a film, and the boat scene isn't an actual memory, but a filmed sequence edited together with other film sequences, in order to create possible linkages in the viewer's mind.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:25 (four months ago) link

lol ok cool

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:27 (four months ago) link

lock thread i guess?

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:28 (four months ago) link

Lock borad

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:29 (four months ago) link

just because it's his memory doesn't mean he's an unreliable narrator also

yes

Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:35 (four months ago) link

moodles otm

an actual apocalypse and ye still at it

ole uncle tiktok (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:37 (four months ago) link

I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous to lots of folks on here, but we're pondering the reliability of a scene that is purposefully left ambiguous in the middle of a film about the fictionalization of historical events.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:51 (four months ago) link

such a mind you have, it’s really wasted on all of us

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:17 (four months ago) link

Lol, I'm not saying it's an original thought in any way

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:18 (four months ago) link

neither am I :D

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:43 (four months ago) link

Oh I know, thanks

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:44 (four months ago) link

Cue "Ramblin' Gamblin'Man".

"...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:46 (four months ago) link

peace out in my karmann ghia

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:49 (four months ago) link

Anyone seen the long cut yet?

piscesx, Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:46 (four months ago) link

There is no long cut yet.

Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:47 (four months ago) link

Oh?! I thought it had been shown already. My bad. IMDB has this to say;

In October 2019, an extended cut of the film was released in selected theaters with an additional 10 minutes, made up of 4 new scenes which include an extended version of the opening scene, two fake commercials and a new after-credits scene.

piscesx, Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:49 (four months ago) link

He showed lots of bonus material like that, and Bounty Law stuff, before screenings at the New Beverly for months too, but the theoretical four-hour version or Netflix miniseries is still in the future

Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Saturday, 28 March 2020 10:21 (four months ago) link

i really do want that in my life

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 16:15 (four months ago) link

one month passes...

finally saw this today. liked how they don't make rick dalton a joke. he's self aware enough and also seems p committed to actually doing a good job and he is good at his job imo. dog attack + flamethrower the perfect ending too.

oscar bravo, Saturday, 2 May 2020 15:48 (three months ago) link


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