Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

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Dud

The times they are a changing, perhaps (map), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:07 (four years ago) link

good luck donald trump

imago, Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:07 (four years ago) link

https://plus.google.com/104275426491742090609

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:10 (four years ago) link

Ten-year-old nabisco offTM:

Here's something funny: when I was ten years old I had a vague admiration for Donald Trump and Lee Iacocca (both very feted at the time) and a downright intense love of Alex P. Keaton from Family Ties, who I didn't understand to be something of a joke. As such, despite having really liked Mondale -- having a woman as a running mate impressed me, probably because of the mother/father dynamic of it -- I was convinced that I wanted to be a Republican and a businessman or lawyer of some sort. In fact, I started a "company" with my friends Brian and Jeff -- we made board games, and hired Tony, the best breakdancer I have ever known, to do the art -- and I was constantly attempting to read the law and economics books in my father's library. Everyone seemed to think this was "cute," though I sort of wish someone had just explained politics to me. In either case, I got over it quickly and went back to wanting to be a writer.

...

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:28 PM (fourteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I Love It When They Call Me Big Pharma (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:12 (four years ago) link

i suppose 'classic' in that he's all a lot of people can think about or talk about and his brain dmamage is so powerful it's infected the world

p bad president and person tho

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:45 (four years ago) link

takes balls to rock that combover day in and out

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:47 (four years ago) link

I can see the blood from the man-flesh on his teeth!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:48 (four years ago) link

What you lookin' at?
You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be?
You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say,
"That's the bad guy.
" So... what that make you? Good? You're not good.
You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.
So say good night to the bad guy!
Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you.
Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

sleepingbag, Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:49 (four years ago) link

You certainly don't, pal, 'cause the good news is - you're fired. The bad news is - you've got, all of you've got just one week to regain your jobs starting with tonight. Starting with tonight's sit. Oh? Have I got your attention now? Good. 'Cause we're adding a little something to this month's sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. Get the picture? You laughing now? You got leads. Mitch and Murray paid good money, get their names to sell them; you can't close the leads you're given, you can't close shit. You ARE shit! Hit the bricks, pal, and beat it 'cause you are going OUT!

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:55 (four years ago) link

Search: "move on her like a bitch"

Destroy: everything else

flappy bird, Thursday, 22 June 2017 17:56 (four years ago) link

"Trump never said he had tapes, he just inferred that he did. And it is not intimidating a witness since Comey is telling the truth and knew that any tapes would prove his version of events."

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 22 June 2017 18:03 (four years ago) link

everyone is classic but not everyone should be president

Dean of the University (Latham Green), Thursday, 22 June 2017 18:05 (four years ago) link

President Don once had a dream
The world held his hand, gave their pledge
So he told them his scheme for a savior machine

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 22 June 2017 19:09 (four years ago) link

Trump lingered last in line for brains
And the one he got was sorta rotten and insane
Small hands (so sad!), a rust-hued clown
Is Trump fast asleep or rockin' out with Three Doors Down?

you yourself have seen plenty bananas in your life (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 June 2017 19:25 (four years ago) link

haven't thought about this guy for a while. i think he was popular in the 80s?

Treeship, Thursday, 22 June 2017 19:50 (four years ago) link

Overrated

jmm, Thursday, 22 June 2017 20:13 (four years ago) link

I think he'd make really great hog slurry. You can really tell a lot about a man by the way his pureed corpus fills a trough.

you yourself have seen plenty bananas in your life (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 June 2017 20:16 (four years ago) link

red means 'run, son. numbers add up to nothin'
. . .
shelter me from the putin and the banker
i bankrupted casinos. who the fuck does that?

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:13 (four years ago) link

#daddy

korla pundit (crüt), Friday, 23 June 2017 02:05 (four years ago) link

#dilfsinjocks

The times they are a changing, perhaps (map), Friday, 23 June 2017 02:22 (four years ago) link

wasting his finite reserves of energy there

El Tomboto, Friday, 23 June 2017 02:23 (four years ago) link

Cronenbergian

Treeship, Friday, 23 June 2017 03:16 (four years ago) link

Like a hastily-assembled meat collage.

you yourself have seen plenty bananas in your life (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 10:25 (four years ago) link

hard to tell who is more obsessed with him the right or the left.

also the media love/hate thing is so cute. get a room you two.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 23 June 2017 11:09 (four years ago) link

“I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me.”

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 11:38 (four years ago) link

He is only as wicked and hellspawned as the hatred and resentment simmering in the heartland of the most violent nation ever

Dean of the University (Latham Green), Friday, 23 June 2017 13:50 (four years ago) link

I think you might need to look into a thing called history if you think this is the most violent nation ever.

you yourself have seen plenty bananas in your life (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 13:52 (four years ago) link

you suggest Panama?

Dean of the University (Latham Green), Friday, 23 June 2017 15:43 (four years ago) link

the 1997 NYer profile of Trump is start-to-finish amazing but if I had to pick a favorite part it's this https://t.co/reqFZ79eZd pic.twitter.com/Qnwnuiyxqh

— Rosie Gray (@RosieGray) June 23, 2017

BlackIronPrison, Friday, 23 June 2017 15:44 (four years ago) link

hard to tell who is more obsessed with him the right or the left.

libs/"centrists" for sure

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 23 June 2017 16:09 (four years ago) link

it's sobering to realize that Trump is probably the most famous person in human history now

flappy bird, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:13 (four years ago) link

*not adjusted for population inflation

flappy bird, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:14 (four years ago) link

indicative of a deep flaw in our universe

global tetrahedron, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:19 (four years ago) link

truly he is king of the narcissist personality disorder sufferers

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:24 (four years ago) link

i think jesus still beats him out unless we're only counting contemporaneous fame

ciderpress, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:26 (four years ago) link

Michael Jackson sold a hundred million records

frogbs, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:26 (four years ago) link

contemporaneous fame. MJ is up there but there are twice as many people on Earth now than there were in 1984.

flappy bird, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:30 (four years ago) link

Donlad Turmp sold a hundred million and one. Sad!

President Buttstuff (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:30 (four years ago) link

Part of my problem is that I have to do a lot of things myself. It takes so much time. Julio Iglesias is coming to Mar-a-Lago, but I have to call Julio, I have to have lunch with Julio. I have Pavarotti coming. Pavarotti doesn’t perform for anybody. He’s the highest-paid performer in the world. A million dollars a performance. The hardest guy to get. If I call him, he’ll do it—for a huge amount less. Why? Because they like me, they respect me, I don’t know.

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 20:34 (four years ago) link

I think you might need to look into a thing called history if you think this is the most violent nation ever.

idk Native American genocide plus slavery plus nuclear bomb-dropping... surely we're in the running

Οὖτις, Friday, 23 June 2017 20:42 (four years ago) link

probably a million people killed by u.s. in vietnam/laos/cambodia. nobody will ever know how many. not pol pot numbers, but still...

mao would be the world champ though.

scott seward, Friday, 23 June 2017 21:19 (four years ago) link

it's sobering to realize that Trump is probably the most famous person in human history now

this is a ridiculous statement

Οὖτις, Friday, 23 June 2017 21:24 (four years ago) link

Man, if only Trump would tweet that he's bigger than Jesus...

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 23 June 2017 21:43 (four years ago) link

well he's certainly fatter

Οὖτις, Friday, 23 June 2017 21:48 (four years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDBB4IMWAAAO6sN.jpg:large

grawlix (unperson), Friday, 23 June 2017 22:18 (four years ago) link

…it AINT over til he’s oooooohhh verrrrrr…

so many tears i cry, so many FUCK. YOUUUUUS! i sigh, etc

antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Saturday, 23 October 2021 01:01 (one month ago) link

There's a very good Bloomberg column about the latest Trump Thing. In case it's paywalled, I'll paste it below.

Trump SPAC
Donald Trump is a very famous person who likes to talk and who has a lot of enthusiastic fans. If he started a television channel that consisted of him talking about whatever for two hours every afternoon, surrounded by 22 hours of other people talking about how great he is, it would probably get a lot of viewers and could carry a lot of ads for pillows or whatever. But this would probably involve a certain amount of work and competence — you’d have to hire people to point the cameras at him and negotiate cable carriage and ad deals — and television is expensive; there would be some real financial risk to it.

Or he could start a social media company for his fans, where he could send out his thoughts without being banned. I am not going to pretend to make a business case for that one — there is a long history of hilarious failure in the “social media for Trump” category — but maybe you can. It is not a sure thing, in any case. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. When Twitter Inc. went public it had never been profitable and it was, you know, a real social network that people used. Maybe Twitter But Trump would immediately be profitable but boy I have some doubts.

On the other hand if Donald Trump launched a company that was like “I am going to start a social media platform for Trump fans,” could he get people to buy the stock? I think that two fundamental lessons of the last few years are:

You can get people to buy any stock; and Donald Trump can get people to buy anything.

So if Donald Trump announced “hey I’m gonna do a social media company, buy some stock,” people would buy some stock. And then he’d get a lot of money. And then if the social media platform did not end up being profitable — as I cannot imagine it would be! — then he would, uh, still have that money? And if the social media platform did not end up being launched — if Trump and his crack team of technologists just couldn’t actually build a well-functioning online social network — then he would, uh, still have that money? And if there was no crack team of technologists at all, if nobody even tried to build the social media platform — then you see where I am going with this right?

The point is that if you launch a company with the goal of making it profitable, you have to, like, have a workable business plan and execute on it and deal with a million different operational complexities. If you launch a company with the goal of selling a lot of stock, you have to get people to trust you and give you their money. There is some overlap between those things! But they are different things!

Now, there are some difficulties with doing an initial public offering that is like “we’re gonna build a beautiful social network, trust me.” But a third important lesson of the last few years is: SPACs!

If you go public by merging your private company with a special purpose acquisition company, then you can just make up whatever you want and no one will check. No, I’m kidding, that is very much not the law! But it is maybe a little bit the law? In particular, there is a view that pre-revenue private companies can go public via SPAC merger and market themselves to investors using wildly optimistic projections of their future revenue, and that if those projections do not come true they won’t get in trouble. Again, this is not quite true — talk to your lawyer before trying this! — but there is an element of truth to it. If you are in the business of raising money to fund a social media company that you haven’t built yet and perhaps never will, the SPAC format has a real appeal.

Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway:

>>PALM BEACH, FL -- October 20, 2021 -- Trump Media & Technology Group and Digital World Acquisition Corp. (NASDAQ: DWAC) have entered into a definitive merger agreement, providing for a business combination that will result in Trump Media & Technology Group becoming a publicly listed company, subject to regulatory and stockholder approval. The transaction values Trump Media & Technology Group at an initial enterprise value of $875 Million, with a potential additional earnout of $825 Million in additional shares (at the valuation they are granted) for a cumulative valuation of up to $1.7 Billion depending on the performance of the stock price post-business combination. Trump Media & Technology Group’s growth plans initially will be funded by DWAC’s cash in trust of $293 Million (assuming no redemptions).

>>Trump Media & Technology Group's mission is to create a rival to the liberal media consortium and fight back against the "Big Tech” companies of Silicon Valley, which have used their unilateral power to silence opposing voices in America.

>>Trump Media & Technology Group (“TMTG”) will soon be launching a social network, named "TRUTH Social." TRUTH Social is now available for Pre-Order in the Apple App store. TRUTH Social plans to begin its Beta Launch for invited guests in November 2021. A nationwide rollout is expected in the first quarter of 2022. Those who are interested in joining TRUTH Social may now visit www.truthsocial.com to sign up for the invite list.

>>President Donald J. Trump, the Chairman of TMTG, stated, “I created TRUTH Social and TMTG to stand up to the tyranny of Big Tech. We live in a world where the Taliban has a huge presence on Twitter, yet your favorite American President has been silenced. This is unacceptable. I am excited to send out my first TRUTH on TRUTH Social very soon. TMTG was founded with a mission to give a voice to all. I'm excited to soon begin sharing my thoughts on TRUTH Social and to fight back against Big Tech. Everyone asks me why doesn’t someone stand up to Big Tech? Well, we will be soon!”

Well. That's a real press release filed with the real Securities and Exchange Commission by Digital World Acquisition Corp., which is a real SPAC insofar as a SPAC can be real. It has $293 million in its trust. Traditionally SPAC deals are often announced with PIPEs, private investments in public equity, in which institutional or strategic investors commit hundreds of millions of dollars of their own money alongside the SPAC investment. Here, there is no PIPE; no institutional investors seem to be involved. Trump Very Tech Company Group is raising its money only from public investors in the SPAC.

Ordinarily that would be risky: The SPAC investors have withdrawal rights — they can take back their $10 per share in cash, plus a little interest, instead of leaving it in the pot for the merger — so the company might not get any money. Here, it is not risky. The reason it is not risky is that people who like Trump will buy the stock. (Also: People who think “people who like Trump will buy the stock” will buy the stock; the Keynesian beauty contest applies here too.) Yesterday, before this announcement, DWAC’s stock closed at $9.96, a bit below the approximately $10.20 per share that it has in its trust, sort of a standard price for a SPAC with no deal yet. At 11 a.m. today it was trading at about $19.38, implying a valuation for Trump Thing of something like $1.7 billion. 2 If you think Trump Thing is worth $19.38 per share, you are not going to take your $10 back; you’re going to keep the stock and let Trump have your $10. 3 He will definitely get all $293 million.

Why would you think Trump Thing, a company with no product and no revenue, is worth $1.7 billion? Are you looking at the wildly optimistic projections of future revenue in the investor presentation? No you certainly are not! The initial SEC filing doesn’t include an investor presentation, but there is a “Company Overview” deck on Trump Thing’s website, and, fun fact, there is not a single dollar sign in the whole deck. There is no financial analysis, no sources and uses of funds for the deal, no capital structure, and certainly no projections of future revenue. It does have a mock-up of the app with Donald Trump tweeting (TRUTHing?) “lorem ipsum” text:

Here’s a slide with Donald Trump presenting a trophy to a sumo wrestler:

Here’s a slide about “Tech Monopoly Censorship Threatens Free Speech”:

That sort of thing. You are not buying this stock because you have faith in its optimistic cash-flow forecasts; it has not bothered with cash-flow forecasts. You are buying this stock because you like Donald Trump and think that Tech Monopoly Censorship Threatens Free Speech. Cash flows, valuation, etc., are all irrelevant. It is just vibes.

It does feel a little bit like all of recent financial history has been leading up to this moment? Like, Donald Trump, sure; obviously part of the Donald Trump thing is “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters.” Similarly, he can launch a company with no product, business plan or capital structure and the stock will double.

But also the SPAC boom has made it viable for pre-product, pre-revenue companies to go public at multibillion-dollar valuations if they can get enough hype. But also meme stocks have prepared everyone for the notion that the value of a stock is based on the fervor of its community of online fans, not its projected cash flows. But also the cryptocurrency boom seeded that notion, and paired it with libertarianism and resistance to tech-company dominance. But also the boom in non-fungible tokens further proved the idea that membership in an online community has a value that can be captured and financialized and traded and turned into a bubble.

Or I talk sometimes about the “Elon Markets Hypothesis,” the notion that stocks (or cryptocurrencies) go up because Elon Musk tweets about them. Musk’s online cult of personality is enough to create financial value. I joke sometimes that he should use that to extract some of that value for himself, but honestly Musk is super-rich and has a lot of weird hobbies and just isn’t that interested in pumping Dogecoin to make a little day-trading profit. 4 But if anyone else has their own large devoted online cult, they can use it to pump a stock and extract some value for themselves. Donald Trump has a Musk-level online cult and is clearly not above extracting value for himself.

What is the long-term value of Trump Thing? Well I suppose you could make an optimistic case that it will eventually displace Twitter and Facebook and CNN and … Netflix? and … Amazon? and … Stripe? ... and become a dominant multi-trillion-dollar tech giant. Again the investor presentation doesn’t make that case but it does have a slide with Stripe’s logo:

And then you’d feel pretty good about getting in at $1.7 billion. Or you could make a more normal case that Donald Trump is a big media personality and you can sell a certain number of pillow ads against him and this will end up being a viable, profitable business and $1.7 billion is roughly the right price for it.

But I think that a more realistic valuation method here is not to worry about cash flows at all — as Trump SPAC clearly does not — and treat the stock simply as a token of public interest in Donald Trump. My guess is that the price of Trump SPAC stock will not, for instance, be much affected by its earnings announcements, unless Trump himself does the earnings calls in which case it will go up no matter what he says. My guess is that the stock will not be particularly correlated with the stocks of other media or technology companies. My guess is that the stock will go up when Trump is on television, or if he announces that he’s running for president again. My guess is that if something bad happens to Trump — if he’s sued or arrested or banned by a new tech company or some new scandal comes out — then that will also make the stock go up, to own the libs or whatever. My guess is that each day that goes by without Trump news, the stock will go down a bit. My guess is that the stock is essentially a bet on Trump’s personal newsiness, on Trump-news volatility. 5

To be clear I have absolutely no corporate finance basis for these guesses; I don’t think that, like, getting sued for attacking protesters will be good for Trump Thing’s ad revenue or whatever. I don’t have some story of “public interest in Trump increases the expected value of Trump Thing's cash flows so the stock will go up.” I just think that the stock price will have nothing to do with the ad revenue; it will be based entirely on how much attention Trump’s fans are paying to Trump.

At the beginning of February, when GameStop Corp.’s stock price became unmoored from anyone's expectations about future cash flows, I wrote a paragraph that people still tweet at me from time to time:

>>But I tell you what, if we are still here in a month I will absolutely freak out. Stock prices can get totally disconnected from fundamental value for a while, it’s fine, we all have a good laugh. But if they stay that way forever, if everyone decides that cash flows are irrelevant and that the important factor in any stock is how much fun it is to trade, then … what are we all doing here?

When people tweet this at me it is because GameStop’s price is still pretty much where it was in February (though arguably a bit more justified by actual changes to the business!), and they say “so are you freaked out yet?” And, I don’t know, yes? Doesn’t it feel like there has been a paradigm shift, a regime change? Doesn’t it feel like for the last 80 or so years there has been a dominant view of investing, a first-page-of-the-textbook given, that investments are worth the present value of their expected future cash flows? Doesn’t it feel like that world has ended and a new one has begun? I should go buy some Dogecoin.

Oh, also. One other thing that I like to say around here is that “everything is securities fraud”: Every bad thing that a public company, or a public-company executive, does can be recast as securities fraud and lead to securities lawsuits. There will be like 200 securities-fraud lawsuits against Donald Trump by Christmas, enjoy!

but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 23 October 2021 13:37 (one month ago) link

Interesting article. I have a chapter on this topic in my upcoming book "Capitalism's Entropic Asymptote," describing the period before we are eating each other's faces, and also before Cthulu lumbers forth from the sea to assume his throne on the rubble of Trump Tower.

antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Saturday, 23 October 2021 16:47 (one month ago) link

Is there a chapter on the face-eating Cthulhu faze? Because I would like to buy shares in your book.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:10 (one month ago) link

You are not buying this stock because you have faith in its optimistic cash-flow forecasts; it has not bothered with cash-flow forecasts. You are buying this stock because you like Donald Trump and think that Tech Monopoly Censorship Threatens Free Speech. Cash flows, valuation, etc., are all irrelevant. It is just vibes.

It does feel a little bit like all of recent financial history has been leading up to this moment? Like, Donald Trump, sure; obviously part of the Donald Trump thing is “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters.” Similarly, he can launch a company with no product, business plan or capital structure and the stock will double.

But also the SPAC boom has made it viable for pre-product, pre-revenue companies to go public at multibillion-dollar valuations if they can get enough hype. But also meme stocks have prepared everyone for the notion that the value of a stock is based on the fervor of its community of online fans, not its projected cash flows. But also the cryptocurrency boom seeded that notion, and paired it with libertarianism and resistance to tech-company dominance. But also the boom in non-fungible tokens further proved the idea that membership in an online community has a value that can be captured and financialized and traded and turned into a bubble.

...Doesn’t it feel like there has been a paradigm shift, a regime change? Doesn’t it feel like for the last 80 or so years there has been a dominant view of investing, a first-page-of-the-textbook given, that investments are worth the present value of their expected future cash flows? Doesn’t it feel like that world has ended and a new one has begun? I should go buy some Dogecoin.

perhaps i'm alone in this, but for the last several years i've had the notion that people are starting to act as if there really were no future, or at least if it the world we all grew up in is no longer the basis for the future. the 2016 election pointed toward that, as well as the rise of crypto, and it seems to be escalating.

again, maybe that's just me. and maybe i see it because that kind of thinking has rubbed off on me a bit. i see no real future for myself, not any kind of traditional one at least. i already feel my body ailing, i already see my friends and family getting sick and dying, more and more. i want to live my life now, while i can, rather than following the traditional consensus of "defer most of the joy of your life to the future, when you are retired". after the events of the last few years, to me that sounds a lot like "keep earning money for other people. when you are so tired and burned out and old that you no are no longer able to make money for other people, you can retire and travel a bit". and that does seem like a fucking joke, where i am the lifelong butt of the joke.

i guess that has little to do with trump, or anything else. i just wanted to register the thought, the feeling in the air, that the zeitgeist seems to be shifting toward "no future"

Jeff Hornacek walks into a bar with (Karl Malone), Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:15 (one month ago) link

If by 'future' you mean a recognizable future which progresses logically from the perpetuation of systems that have underpinned the breadth of our lives thus far (and particularly systems which require some degree of constituent agreement about how they function in order to perpetuate as they have), then no. There probably is no future. It's just a slow, intentional, nihilistically hilaaaaaarious erosion of load-bearing walls with no thought given to what's gonna keep the ceiling from collapsing on us when we're done.

(a picture of a defecating pig) (Old Lunch), Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:32 (one month ago) link

oh no! they may have totally inadvertently used some code that wasn't theirs without asking and now they have 30 days to stop that:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/22/22740354/trump-truth-social-network-spac-mastodon-license-software-freedom-conservancy

StanM, Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:35 (one month ago) link

It's just a slow, intentional, nihilistically hilaaaaaarious erosion of load-bearing walls with no thought given to what's gonna keep the ceiling from collapsing on us when we're done.

wait, maybe this is the mypillow guy's angle? when you don't have anyone or anything else you can count on, nothing to protect you, nothing to sleep on - a pillow is handy

typo hell #14: neanderthal started writing it not know how it (Karl Malone), Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:39 (one month ago) link

it's like the towel in Hitchhiker's Guide, only better

typo hell #14: neanderthal started writing it not know how it (Karl Malone), Saturday, 23 October 2021 17:39 (one month ago) link

Doesn’t it feel like that world has ended and a new one has begun?

One of the old rules on Wall Street is that whenever conventional wisdom starts to wonder if the latest bubble actually means that we've entered a new world where the old rules don't apply, then the latest bubble is on the verge of bursting and it's time to get out.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 23 October 2021 18:34 (one month ago) link

perhaps i'm alone in this, but for the last several years i've had the notion that people are starting to act as if there really were no future, or at least if it the world we all grew up in is no longer the basis for the future. the 2016 election pointed toward that, as well as the rise of crypto, and it seems to be escalating.

again, maybe that's just me. and maybe i see it because that kind of thinking has rubbed off on me a bit. i see no real future for myself, not any kind of traditional one at least. i already feel my body ailing, i already see my friends and family getting sick and dying, more and more. i want to live my life now, while i can, rather than following the traditional consensus of "defer most of the joy of your life to the future, when you are retired". after the events of the last few years, to me that sounds a lot like "keep earning money for other people. when you are so tired and burned out and old that you no are no longer able to make money for other people, you can retire and travel a bit". and that does seem like a fucking joke, where i am the lifelong butt of the joke.

i guess that has little to do with trump, or anything else. i just wanted to register the thought, the feeling in the air, that the zeitgeist seems to be shifting toward "no future"

Agree with all of this 100%. I feel like younger people are giving up on "the system," and I see that as an unequivocally good thing. Maybe they'll manage to wrest a better world from the brittle claws of my parents' generation (and my generation). As for me, I'm glad I never had kids, and I'm mostly living my life as a vulture, picking away at the carcass of a failing society for the 20-30 years I've got left.

but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 23 October 2021 19:37 (one month ago) link

Yeah KM I know exactly what you mean. I don't think there's "no future" exactly but I do know the world is going to look radically different by the time my kids are my age. It might not be *entirely* a bad thing. I mean this current generation of teens feels so much different to my generation already; I've met so many young people who are already radicalized by the events of the last few years and I am guessing a lot of these people are going to be in political power soon. I was taught from a young age to value money and "hard work" above all else which in the world of Tether and NFTs and Gamestop feels like a cruel joke. Like imagine explaining to a class of 3rd graders that you have to work for money to buy things but also that there are like 3 people who own as much as half the country combined. Can you imagine being born in say, 2003, and watching the older generation lose their fucking minds over Donald Trump? How do you trust your elders after that? How do you trust the American system?

It does at least have *something* to do with Trump imo because his primary appeal to Republican voters was not the racism or even the cruelty but rather that he appeared to have successfully avoided the gravity of reality. dude was dumb as bricks but still managed to make a lot of money for himself, fuck a bunch of models, commit unlimited amounts of crime, and do and say whatever he wanted. To me that's Trumpism to the core. It's nothing but an escape from reality. They want to live in a world where America is always #1, where their way of life continues forever, where climate change isn't real, where every crime Trump committed was imagined by the "fake news", where Trump won in a landslide, where Covid is some cooked up scheme by globalists to destroy the good guys for whatever reason, etc. etc., and since we are at the point where these people would literally rather DIE than face reality (see r/HermanCainAward) it seems like the entire American worldview which has coddled these beliefs for so long can only collapse, which I guess can go one of two ways. I try to be optimistic but I can totally see why that's so difficult right now.

frogbs, Saturday, 23 October 2021 20:14 (one month ago) link

guys don't worry, rome didn't fall in a day.

antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Sunday, 24 October 2021 03:24 (one month ago) link

Naming his planned network PRAVDA Social is pretty funny. Trump 2024: TRUMP HARDER

antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Sunday, 24 October 2021 08:06 (one month ago) link

Is all that methane good for global warming?

Stevolende, Sunday, 24 October 2021 08:40 (one month ago) link

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 25 October 2021 15:24 (one month ago) link

I knew when conservatives started railing against "political correctness" that it was only a short step to "I can just be an unmitigated fucking asshole with no repercussions." And here we are.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 25 October 2021 17:06 (one month ago) link

Conservatism is just a "Calvin peeing on..." meme these days

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 25 October 2021 17:40 (one month ago) link

This piece from yesterday is of interest in that regard

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/evangelical-trump-christians-politics/620469/

Ned Raggett, Monday, 25 October 2021 17:42 (one month ago) link

You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 18:27 (one month ago) link

When the Christian faith is politicized, churches become repositories not of grace but of grievances, places where tribal identities are reinforced, where fears are nurtured, and where aggression and nastiness are sacralized.

There were church leaders warning about this back during the rise of Falwell and the Moral Majority.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 25 October 2021 18:28 (one month ago) link

And yet . . .

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 18:30 (one month ago) link

It's also rich that Peter Wehner wrote that article, as he's certainly helped contribute to the culture of White Evangelical Nationalism. Someone ought to tell him that if you make your bed and also shit in it, you can't wring your hands about your little oopsy-poopsy.

I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 25 October 2021 18:32 (one month ago) link

“Nearly everyone tells me there is at the very least a small group in nearly every evangelical church complaining and agitating against teaching or policies that aren’t sufficiently conservative or anti-woke,” a pastor and prominent figure within the evangelical world told me. (Like others with whom I spoke about this topic, he requested anonymity in order to speak candidly.) “It’s everywhere.”

good article so far, but had to lol a bit at this.

it's been everywhere for at least 30 years dude!!!

this is interesting, though, and something i haven't thought about:

“What we’re seeing is massive discipleship failure caused by massive catechesis failure,” James Ernest, the vice president and editor in chief at Eerdmans, a publisher of religious books, told me. Ernest was one of several figures I spoke with who pointed to catechism, the process of instructing and informing people through teaching, as the source of the problem. “The evangelical Church in the U.S. over the last five decades has failed to form its adherents into disciples. So there is a great hollowness. All that was needed to cause the implosion that we have seen was a sufficiently provocative stimulus. And that stimulus came.”

i've never really thought about catechism because it was never present in any evangelical context that i knew of. the pastor and the assistant pastor (aka "the music guy" who led the band through so many endless power ballads as people were saved) had degrees from some theological place, but in general, the vibe was "if you are an expert, you are an expert" everywhere else. it does seem like abandoning theological coherence and just leaving it to everybody to come up with their own ideas would soon lead to...the average republican?

The idea that the average white evangelical over the last 30 years would have renounced the political elements of their agenda had only they been better instructed in Christ's teachings is total and complete fucking bullshit made up by some evangelical numbnuts who apparently doesn't like realizing what side he's been on the last 30 years.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 20:27 (one month ago) link

This isn't directed at you Karl so sorry if it seemed that way. Reacting to the quote.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 20:29 (one month ago) link

i'm not sure that's what he said, though! or at least, not the claim that better instruction would have led to renouncing political elements.

i see it more as just making a connection between the empty theology ("great hollowness") and the willingness of white evangelicals, more than any other religious group, to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there on conspiracy theories and anti-masking and shit like that

xp!

He's making a pretty direct comparison. The two paragraphs preceding your quoted paragraph are referencing the politicization of evangelicals. I don't see how Christ's teachings change that politicization - it's a feature, not a bug.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 20:41 (one month ago) link

sure, but there are many ways to be politicized. the direction that evangelicals have gone isn't predetermined by those teachings. it would be amazing if all of a sudden evangelicals were focused on the jesus of the gospels and suddenly understood that they were supposed to have compassion for those they disagreed with, and also that they weren't supposed to be figuring out how to get more money all of the time, for example

I'm mildly curious as to what these anti-woke activist would say when asked to define what 'woke' means to them

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 25 October 2021 20:59 (one month ago) link

Focusing on (or even mentioning) racial issues, because "I don't see color" afaik.

Sermons are short. Only some churchgoers attend adult-education classes, and even fewer attend Bible study and small groups. Cable news, however, is always on. “So if people are getting one kind of catechesis for half an hour per week,” Jacobs asked, “and another for dozens of hours per week, which one do you think will win out?”

I thought this was key. My parents do this with CNN and MSNBC. Their friends/relatives are 24/7 Fox, if they haven't moved on to the hard stuff like OANN.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:01 (one month ago) link

yeah, basically CRT, woke, etc boils down to any discussion of race whatsoever.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:07 (one month ago) link

Old people leave the TV on all the time, it seems. My parents still don't have cable!

I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:16 (one month ago) link

I don't even have parents.

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:19 (one month ago) link

I don't even own a parent

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:20 (one month ago) link

i don't even have an alibi, TRUMP! full circle

I’m so grateful that my parents listen to classical music 24/7 and not news or cable.

Typo? Negative! (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:21 (one month ago) link

Don't they watch The Price is Right anymore? What the hell is wrong with these boomers

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 25 October 2021 21:23 (one month ago) link

just make sure they're not listening to wagner 24/7, that's a warning sign

Everyone always does that whole thing but whatever, having a house without TV or cable TV is actually good and I don't give a fuck if that makes me some sort of snooty asshole. TV sucks. Period.

I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:32 (one month ago) link

He’s heard of many congregants leaving their church because it didn’t match their politics, he told me, but has never once heard of someone changing their politics because it didn’t match their church’s teaching. He often tells his congregation that if the Bible doesn’t challenge your politics at least occasionally, you’re not really paying attention to the Hebrew scriptures or the New Testament. The reality, however, is that a lot of people, especially in this era, will leave a church if their political views are ever challenged, even around the edges.

HENLEY: Well, yeah.

mothersbaugh of invention (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 25 October 2021 21:33 (one month ago) link

100%

xp to table

<3

this is gold pic.twitter.com/PY9mDTBNeg

— MeidasTouch.com (@MeidasTouch) October 31, 2021

(which was at this game - he announced that he was invited but they refuted that: he called and asked them : https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-refutes-trump-claim-they-invited-him-to-world-series-200004450.html )

StanM, Sunday, 31 October 2021 14:57 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

Trump on Waukesha: The good news is he hated Trump pic.twitter.com/hE800i5Gvb

— Acyn (@Acyn) November 24, 2021

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 24 November 2021 14:02 (one week ago) link

used to be disgusted by that stuff but turns out this is how the entire American right thinks

frogbs, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 14:10 (one week ago) link

Little Rocket Man --> Little Rifle Man

Trump having a photo of Kim Jong-un on his wall is so painfully on brand https://t.co/Fcvh1maspa

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) November 24, 2021

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 25 November 2021 17:02 (one week ago) link


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