Fire at Grenfell Tower in London

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Fatalities reported. Utterly scandalous, given that residents have been complaining about the safety of the building for years, as can be seen in this blog post from last November:

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

heaven parker (anagram), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 07:23 (two years ago) link

Just heard a tenant describing a distraught mother with 2 missing kids, it sounds terrible.

also heard someone on the radio suggesting that the cosmetic cladding might have helped the upwards spread of the fire on the outside of the building.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 07:30 (two years ago) link

jesus christ.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 07:30 (two years ago) link

The standard message in tower block fires is to stay in your flat and let the fire services deal with it - which is apparently good advice if the safety systems work but fatal if they don't.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 07:57 (two years ago) link

There's an old Japanese guy stuck at a window for the past five hours apparently, GMB kept showing him..

Mark G, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:07 (two years ago) link

Terrible terrible reports

May o God help us (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:22 (two years ago) link

Footage is unbelievable. I'm not able to even really look at it too much because being trapped in a night-time fire either alone or with your kids in PJs is just ... literally can't bear to think about it.

Makes me absolutely outraged that a fire this bad can happen when we have decent fire regs and the ability to prevent it. And when residents have been warning about it!

It's a housing crisis and austerity double whammy this: council used refurb as a chance to fit even more homes in there, and sold off the surrounding land so tightly residents were concerned about emergency access. Meanwhile fire service cuts mean fewer safety visits and less effective enforcement. And costs can't have been far from the mind of those postponing the fire regs reviews in the wake of Camberwell. That was on Gavin Barwell's watch, mind.

stet, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:34 (two years ago) link

fire service cuts in london were at boris johnson's behest

mark s, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:42 (two years ago) link

Yes, I hope someone buttonholes him about that. Kensington & Chelsea council, figures.

Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:46 (two years ago) link

let's not use an entirely preventable tragedy to play politics

pray for BoJo (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 08:47 (two years ago) link

Worth following Dawn Foster on Twitter for more on this. It appears the block was remodeled recently to increase the density, leaving one staircase for the entire block. The cladding appears to be flammable and no integrating fire alarm system was put in.

There are reports of people jumping and someone holding a toddler out of a window. What a horrible, grim, preventable disaster.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 09:08 (two years ago) link

I'm guessing this is a coincidence of the casual/enraged author, but that blog post reads like a threat, in several places.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 09:10 (two years ago) link

baby thrown, and caught, from 9th floor apparently

5-y-o thrown from 6th floor, seems to be okay

i imagine many more did not make it

people need to go to jail over this. this isn't the goddamn 1800s

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 09:55 (two years ago) link

I'm sure whoever's responsible will be vilified and prosecuted to the same extent as anybody else responsible for multiple deaths

pray for BoJo (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 09:56 (two years ago) link

heads will have to roll over this, there has been a fucking criminal level of negligence here. It is like people in social housing are less important than cattle.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 09:59 (two years ago) link

I've just driven past it on the way to White City and even though I knew what to expect I still couldn't stop from saying "holy fuck". It's an awful, hideous sight. It's still burning too, flames out of windows about halfway up.

There *must* be arrests here. These people were left to die by fucking Kensington

stet, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:01 (two years ago) link

it's almost as if profit-driven housing policy and years of underinvestment in public services have consequences

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:04 (two years ago) link

i mean, JUST FANCY THAT.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:04 (two years ago) link

It is like people in social housing are less important than cattle.

More expensive though. I suppose if you can't manage to ship these people as far away from your private tenants as possible, just cram as many as possible into substandard housing as you can get away with.

Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:05 (two years ago) link

it doesn't help the situation when you have a Labour mayor who is pro "affordable housing". He doesn't seem to gaf about the state of social housing and aggressive gentrification.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:13 (two years ago) link

b-but kensington is a bit misleading i think: the people who live in this part of london call it white city, which has very different associations

mark s, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:32 (two years ago) link

I keep thinking about Hillsborough and how many parallels there are despite the disasters themselves being completely different.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:32 (two years ago) link

this is some fucking third-world shit, those responsible need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law

Sorry, I was trying to condemn the council with the fifth-lowest-council-tax and near-wealthiest residents for failing these people more than the area in toto

stet, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:40 (two years ago) link

Council truck at Shepherd's Bush green collecting donations of essentials and clothes

stet, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:44 (two years ago) link

xp Right - both the Big Society and May's half-arsed populism have let them down.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:45 (two years ago) link

/b-but kensington/ is a bit misleading i think: the people who live in this part of london call it white city, which has very different associations

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JuFvCbwAMOs/WT7IVw7PQOI/AAAAAAAACUM/ZY70LiRCwRQ89ms7AjAWnlgWjYqRbI0OwCLcB/s1600/kensington_map.png

both points reinforced really. this area has significant areas of deprivation while also being v wealthy/Tory. this is utterly horrific.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:48 (two years ago) link

The Standard are running an appeal but replies to George 'Keep Britain Austere' Osborne's tweets right now are fractious to say the least.

nashwan, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:51 (two years ago) link

yes, sorry stet, i wasn't having a go -- the political point you're making is entirely correct

mark s, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:51 (two years ago) link

Government have also been pushing back against installing sprinkler systems in tower blocks and care homes, despite fire service advice.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 10:56 (two years ago) link

Landlord spent £10million to put cladding to make building look pretty (for surrounding rich) for 300k they could have sprinkler system.

ffs, i feel sick :(

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:03 (two years ago) link

Where are those figures from?

stet, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:07 (two years ago) link

from a UK rapper on twitter admittedly, but evidence suggests even if the figures are wrong the rest is true.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:11 (two years ago) link

A sprinkler system is unlikely to have helped

Kozelek, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:16 (two years ago) link

How do you work that one out?

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:18 (two years ago) link

If a sprinkler system only saved one solitary life it would have made a difference ffs!

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:20 (two years ago) link

Inflammable cladding obv. preferable.

Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:21 (two years ago) link

Ilx is very lucky to have a fire safety expert on the thread tho.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:24 (two years ago) link

Sprinklers are designed to contain fires not put them out, and they work better in contained areas. This fire looks to have spread primarily through the outside of the building and would have been too severe to be controlled by sprinklers when it came back into the building. The scandal is the cladding and there are also question marks over the effectiveness of the fire doors.

Kozelek, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:27 (two years ago) link

"This fire looks to have spread primarily through the outside of the building and would have been too severe to be controlled by sprinklers"

Nobody knows this for certain at this point, with all due respect.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:33 (two years ago) link

Of course.

Kozelek, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:35 (two years ago) link

Oh, you just felt like doing a lawyer routine then.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:37 (two years ago) link

Son Of Dorke

imago, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:41 (two years ago) link

calz step back a second. Kozelek is just laying out some info it seems to me

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:49 (two years ago) link

sorry, but presenting shit opinions as facts is bs. But I am a bit angry atm and will step back for the good of the thread.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:52 (two years ago) link

Thank you Tracer. Like calzino says it is impossible to be certain of anything at this stage. I'm not trying to present anything as fact, feel free to take me with a pinch of salt.

I'm not an expert by any means but I did work in this area for a couple of years. This is an extremely unusual fire.

Kozelek, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 11:58 (two years ago) link

Tell you what might have helped, a fucking fire alarm.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 12:15 (two years ago) link

I heard a tenant on the radio this morning say that there was no central alarm, her own smoke alarm only went off when she opened her door to see what was happening

pray for BoJo (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 14 June 2017 12:16 (two years ago) link

I have worked on shitloads of flat refurbs in the north and have never seen one without a fire alarm before. I think even some of the four storey maisonette ones had fire alarms.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 12:21 (two years ago) link

That's rough, Calzino, sorry.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 3 July 2017 18:58 (two years ago) link

Yes since at least 91 when I started. Xp re decanting

Before that, when my granny's house was getting done up, she was 'decanted' for a few months - that was the 80s, possibly the 70s.

weird echo of the falsies (Tom D.), Monday, 3 July 2017 20:34 (two years ago) link

(xp) I know someone who is stuck in this shitty process too, calz, it's fucking disgraceful.

weird echo of the falsies (Tom D.), Monday, 3 July 2017 20:35 (two years ago) link

Tell your friend to get a decent advocate if they can, the one my partner got was ineffective, rude and totally callous. When you have just gone through a very dehumanising process and they coldly say: "you've lost, your taxi will be here in 5 minutes, so set off now" it isn't good.

calzino, Monday, 3 July 2017 20:48 (two years ago) link

Sorry for bringing this to this thread, it is quite trivial in comparison to 100's burning to death in their homes needlessly.

calzino, Monday, 3 July 2017 20:56 (two years ago) link

Sorry to hear Calzino. We should really gulag these Tories.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 3 July 2017 20:58 (two years ago) link

Compilation of stories of the night here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/grenfell_voices was pretty hard to read

stet, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 12:54 (two years ago) link

just finished reading it from top to bottom, am badly shaken. as a piece of publishing, that was extremely well done, though.

or at night (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 14:38 (two years ago) link

Devastating.

chap, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 14:45 (two years ago) link

Great piece

jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:15 (two years ago) link

Great disturbing and upsetting piece of writing. I'm glad I read it.

Shanty Brunch (stevie), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:31 (two years ago) link

Dawn Foster continuing to quote from council meetings and residents thoughts (mostly anger at the authority of course) on Twitter for hours at a time.

nashwan, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 21:42 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

V big post-Grenfell news – residents of 242 flats in 4 blocks in SE London to be moved out after survey found buildings hugely unsafe

— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) August 10, 2017

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 10 August 2017 19:49 (two years ago) link

Again, they need to be re-housed in the exact same areas. Labour need to be on it.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 10 August 2017 19:50 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

Just watched Steve Richards of the Guardian, on BBC's Dateline programme, comparing Trump's response to the hurricanes to May's response to Grenfell Tower, only to be interrupted by the BBC presenter who felt the need to explain to viewers and fellow guests what Grenfell Tower was. Forgotten already down at the BBC obviously.

Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 September 2017 10:45 (two years ago) link

Dateline is shown on their BBC world news channel, so maybe they gave an explanation for people outside the UK?

Jill, Sunday, 10 September 2017 13:29 (two years ago) link

That is a possibility.

Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 September 2017 14:19 (two years ago) link

Saved by an air pocket - this is the story of the only people to escape the top floor of Grenfell Tower. pic.twitter.com/Wx90prH4B4

— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) September 13, 2017

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 14 September 2017 11:50 (two years ago) link

I have been noticing a lot of hate-speak and general apologist obfuscation becoming more more prevalent recently. Well tbf Nick Robinson was doing it on the BBC, literally while the corpses were still burning in Grenfell. And that prick on the start of this thread that was stating (in a bullshit authoritative manner) that sprinklers wouldn't have made a difference, offering this highly intelligent analysis, roughly 10 hours into the disaster. Yet now there is talk that all high rise social housing urgently need sprinkler systems installing, and only 2% actually have them. Well, why waste the money on these things if they don't make any difference? Everyone knows water has absolutely no discernible effect on fire of course.

calzino, Thursday, 14 September 2017 22:23 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

This was pretty well done:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Grenfell_21st_floor

El Tomboto, Sunday, 1 October 2017 18:36 (two years ago) link

Also want to note this development: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/19/grenfell-tower-inquiry-may-consider-individual-manslaughter-charges

Met police commander Stuart Cundy said he had met survivors and relatives of the dead on Monday night and told them he believed the final death toll might be slightly lower than the 80 people previously posited.

He said 60 people had been formally identified and CCTV showed 240 people had left the tower between midnight and 8am on the night of the fire. He added that cases of fraud coming to light, including people reported missing turning out to be fictitious, could be one factor leading to the final death toll being slightly lower.

Nevertheless, he said, there could still be people with no social or family connection outside the tower, and not on any official lists, who could still be within the high-rise. He declined to say by how many the death count could fall.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 1 October 2017 18:38 (two years ago) link

I always thought the numbers would be much higher, if anything. Considering the size of the building and the early a.m. time of the fire. And talk that significant numbers of the residents might not have been officially living there. I'm not saying it is wrong - because I'm not privy to any facts here - but my gut feeling is that it is more lying Met police bollocks, and they do have a long history of lying.

calzino, Sunday, 1 October 2017 19:08 (two years ago) link

Grenfell Tower victim ordered to pay £100 compensation to dep leader of Kensington & Chelsea council after threatening him at 100-day vigil

— Tristan Kirk (@kirkkorner) October 6, 2017

The defendant in question, who lost a close relative in the fire, will be paying the compensation at £5 a week from his benefits

— Tristan Kirk (@kirkkorner) October 6, 2017

stet, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:46 (two years ago) link

whut

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 October 2017 20:07 (two years ago) link

There were recent reports that many survivors are still living in temp accommodation and eating from food banks, so that £20m that was raised is really making a difference. Go fucking charities!

calzino, Friday, 6 October 2017 20:17 (two years ago) link

More council violence:

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-10-16/no-place-of-safety

xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:06 (two years ago) link

The Kensington & Chelsea brigade are properly monstrous pic.twitter.com/KFdQyV8EHa

— James Rhodes (@JRhodesPianist) October 23, 2017

xyzzzz__, Monday, 23 October 2017 19:38 (two years ago) link

Rich wankers are rich and wankers.

Zings Can Only Get Better (snoball), Monday, 23 October 2017 19:49 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOgnIBVW4AANvwD.jpg

I got a similar type of loathsome questonaire from my LA recently, asking me which disabled services I gaf about the least. Like for example which disabled children age groups deserve the least help (0-4 years old, 4-8 years old and so on).

calzino, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:34 (two years ago) link

five months pass...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/08/grenfell-tower-more-costly-fire-resistant-cladding-plan-was-dropped?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

But a few months later the council decided Leadbitter wanted to spend too much on the refurbishment and put the contract out to tender to save £1.3m. It selected Rydon, which provided a lower price but fitted the building with combustible cladding which caught fire on 14 June 2017”.

calzino, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 16:15 (one year ago) link

A film shown about the Choucair (family) has caused considerable distress in the inquiry room.

It showed distressing images of people trapped in the building as it burned and around 20 people have got up and left the room, some breaking down in tears and wailing.

Outside in the foyer one person is having what appears to be a panic attack and is being assisted by one of the counsellors and several other people.

The counsel to the inquiry has described is as “a medical emergency”. The counsel to the inquiry has had to stop the film as a result of this. Even as someone not directly affected by the fire the images were shocking, so survivors’ reaction are completely understandable.

The counsel to the inquiry, Bernard Richmond, had said he would warn people if images of fire or the building were about to be shown but has admitted that he forgot.

Paramedics are now here treating the woman who collapsed and she seems to have gathered her composure and is being counselled in an anteroom.

It felt very quickly that the content of the film was too much for some people and there were pockets of commotion around the auditorium as people decided whether to leave or not.

But the film was allowed to run on for a couple of minutes more. This feels like a difficult moment for the inquiry so early on. Emotions are still incredibly raw and there will be more distressing testimony to come in the weeks and months ahead. How that is handled is now sure to be reviewed by the inquiry team.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Tuesday, 22 May 2018 15:59 (one year ago) link

The counsel to the inquiry, Bernard Richmond, had said he would warn people if images of fire or the building were about to be shown but has admitted that he forgot.

do better you fucking goon

two weeks pass...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/08/grenfell-inquiry-mayor-calls-for-move-to-venue-nearer-tower

Posted mainly for the picture. I've been watching them slowly put this up, the white covering, and it does a good job of hiding the thing against the sky. But it sort of feels like they are covering it up. And the billboard at the top feels like lip service.

(I think there's a service planned and maybe covering it up like this might allow people to attend who might not if it was still just a charred stump)

koogs, Sunday, 10 June 2018 11:07 (one year ago) link

Lots of luxury flats going up in the area too (TVC conversion, the huge university tower...) And other building work (Westfield extension...) They must all overlook Grenfell.

koogs, Sunday, 10 June 2018 11:11 (one year ago) link

Was wondering why it had taken them so long to cover it - feels like something that should've happened well over six months ago.

nashwan, Sunday, 10 June 2018 11:30 (one year ago) link

This is an official response & complaint against Andrew O’Hagan’s article ‘The Tower’. Please read below and share widely. This has been written by Melanie Coles and fully supported by me, a bereaved family member and the #Grenfell community #thetower #article #grenfelltower pic.twitter.com/TeO8nZ6iya

— Noha Maher (@inohauk) June 3, 2018

/

Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 10 June 2018 12:34 (one year ago) link

eleven months pass...

There's currently a very serious fire going on on a new build estate in Barking. The buildings are clad in wood, which the developer has been telling residents was fire resistant.

Matt DC, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:35 (five months ago) link

jesus, is it a tower block construction?

calzino, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:37 (five months ago) link

Looks about six floors high from what I can see.

Matt DC, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:38 (five months ago) link

https://news.sky.com/story/100-firefighters-tackle-six-floor-fire-at-flats-in-barking-east-london-11738455

Wooden balconies by the looks of things.

Matt DC, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:39 (five months ago) link

that balcony material looking extremely flammable from the pic.

calzino, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:53 (five months ago) link

just heard a witness on the radio say something about no alarms going off.

calzino, Sunday, 9 June 2019 18:03 (five months ago) link

the developer has been telling residents was fire resistant

I imagine 'fire resistant' in wood is much like my experience of 'water resistant' in clothing; it may resist a very brief exposure, or else a longer, but minimal exposure, but beyond that it soaks through. iow, it is a worthless marketing term, meant to suggest far more than it says.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 9 June 2019 18:04 (five months ago) link

I once worked on a new build childrens hospice that was mostly made out of wood, with some steel cladding and breeze. I kept commenting to colleagues that you wouldn't fancy the structures chances in a fire, but it was fire resistant wood blah blah someone said .. Part of it burned to the ground only a few years after it opened. I was mortified when it was reported an electrical fault was the cause.. but then it turned out to be a fault on on the high voltage supply side of the plant room, which we was nothing to do with thankfully.

calzino, Sunday, 9 June 2019 18:11 (five months ago) link

heads will roll ... by about 2040 when most of the criminally negligent bodies are already half dead.

calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 10:25 (five months ago) link

Saw the tweet with that story when I woke up - have other places picked up on this?

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 13 June 2019 10:31 (five months ago) link

three months pass...

Grenfell report to be released..... 30 October.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 15:36 (one month ago) link

hollow lol

now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 16:52 (one month ago) link


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