brexit negging when yr mandate is is trash: or further chronicles of a garbage-fire

TTOI at least has the appropriate level of contempt for conviction-free careerist politicians

OK so THIS is going over old ground, obv (it's from aug 2016, a life-time ago), but it's good IMO first on how labour got where it did in the 90s and how it has been able to move away from this more recently (in systemic terms, rather than "bad ppl took and then lost control")

I only happened on it bcz marko attila hoare no less just replied to a tweet of mine from this august: viz "who was SPLINTERED SUNRISE* and what became of him?"

A: acc. MAH his name is jon anderson** and he quit the internet when this became known

*(which i wanted to know bcz up to c.2013 splinty was the excellent source of gossip -- often very funny, generally very astute -- abt the absolute state of the SWP *as well as being* a source of ditto in the world of institutional catholicism… he was quite unusual IME at least in eng-lang terms*** in combining adherence to the precepts of both revolutionary socialism AND traditional some wd say reactionary catholicism. if you care abt either -- i advise you not to but you may -- he is worth googling, if only to load up on ancient internet beef)
**not that one tho it may explain the "sunrise" part of his internet nom de guerre
***(important caveat: he is irish -- born and based in the republic -- hence no doubt why he writes so well)

"the excellent source" sounds weird bcz i meant to write "an excellent source" -- but actually, as well as being excellent, he was the ONLY source of the best kind of gossip (= true AND telling AND funny)

the pervasive air of cynicism and contempt for politics seems more of a problem now that he has firmly cemented himself as a Sensible Centrist.

Thing is, the era of UK politics Ianucci covered is exactly the time of the Sensible Centrists. The fact that this is his ideology as well is I agree confusing but I think TOI is cynical entirely about the values of Nu Labour and the Cameron-era tories; it's not cynical about idealists, it's cynical about the middling managerial style of politics where both parties meet at the centre. The show coming back to try to tackle Corbyn would be entirely disastrous I think, despite Corbz's early years in particular being full of TOI situations, because Corbyn just doesn't fit into what Ianucci's tackling; neither do the Tories under May, I reckogn.

Like, Corbyn succeeds by refusing to be a part of the structures <i>The Thick Of It</i> mocks; the fact that Ianucci would prefer the ppl he's mocking over him doesn't dilute that the show's basically OTM about them.

As for whether the show's been good for UK politics - I don't think any show ever has been, really, but I'll still take a "these are all terrible people, stay away" over the WW's "actually government is a great and noble pursuit".

I did learn today that Thatcher got asked where she'd be in the event of a nuclear war on 80's kid's show Sunday Superstore, which could be seen as having had a good effect on British politics. But then she still won anyway.

That led directly to Maggiez Matez which was a front to assimilate the youth and harvest their organs for senior Tory use in the event of nukage.

Thing is, the era of UK politics Ianucci covered is exactly the time of the Sensible Centrists. The fact that this is his ideology as well is I agree confusing but I think TOI is cynical entirely about the values of Nu Labour and the Cameron-era tories; it's not cynical about idealists, it's cynical about the middling managerial style of politics where both parties meet at the centre

Yes, this is how it looked at the time and probably how it should still code, for the most part, today. Both shows are almost entirely free of idealists, as far as i can remember.

In retrospect, 'these people are awful so we need a new kind of politics' seems further away that 'politicians are awful and we should be inherently suspicious of all of them' though.

the problem with trying to satirize career pols is that they feed off any attention so if you're trying to reform their manners then you might as well be shouting at a concrete block

these really are people who've had their head buried up their own backsides since at least their teens

in this sense TTOI really has no mission other than to flatly portray what is. any representation of a new kind of politics wd belong in a different kind of show altogether. if it feels unsatisfyingly smug that's because it's committed to a reasonable kind of despair, albeit one that comes easier if you are a comfortably off media employee with low stakes in the game.

Once the novelty of the effusive swearing started wearing thin with me, it did feel like a very satisfied show.

(the way i posted and explained the splintered sunrise/jon anderson article linked just upthread makes it seem like it's an unrelated tangent to the ttoi discussion but i actually think it's germane)

I really don't think the function of satire consists in directly shaming these types - maybe more about raising awareness of their shitness amongst the general populace, but really in the end this kind of show has a self-selecting audience so it's about catharsis most of all. So yeah, self-satisfied is probably an accurate charge but taking away the right to schadenfreude seems a bit cruel, especially circa 2012.

In retrospect, 'these people are awful so we need a new kind of politics' seems further away that 'politicians are awful and we should be inherently suspicious of all of them' though.

It's a pretty grim, nihilistic show in the end so I agree it's not likely to influence ppl into taking action, but then fatalism and resignation are such common faults on the left (myself included) that it hardly seems fair to demand that. The second stance you bring up is still pretty much the opposite of Centrist Dad though - the system's fucked, there are no Adults in the Room. The danger there is more about falling into Russel Brand type demagoguery or some brand of libertarianism, both of which I think Ianucci the interview subject would be very quick to disavow.

I was using a deliberately limited Swiftesque definition of satire but tbh I kinda wish a lot of alleged comedians would do too

brb, loading up on ancient internet beef

spectator podcast talking up the prospects of jeremy hunt (!) as next chancellor. so that's him, andrea leadsom, and michael gove being floated so far

lol, imagine the Conservative party still taking Michael Gove seriously as a contender for any position in cabinet.

Apparently “Let me be clear" is developing into May's new S+S and she said it numerous times at PMQT today.

She's always said that tbh.

Like Blair's or Straw's and every other lawyerly NuLab cunt's "In respect of..."

let me be clear was obama's thing too

(the way i posted and explained the splintered sunrise/jon anderson article linked just upthread makes it seem like it's an unrelated tangent to the ttoi discussion but i actually think it's germane)

― mark s, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:42 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Germane? What do you think this is a fuckin' regency costume drama? It's a web forum not a fuckin Jane Austen novel ...etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/25/nhs-to-pilot-airbnb-type-scheme-for-patients-recovering-from-surgery?CMP=share_btn_tw
RIP NHS + The Onion

the big society is back!

At least people now have the short term option of self-mutilation to stave off homelessness for an extra few weeks #progressive

(additional to the splintered sunrise post, bcz i forgot this earlier: for some reason at some point he shuttered the splintered sunrise blog and started a new one, SOVIET GOONBOY: and that's actually where the bulk of the internet beef abt the swp split is)

"Let me be clear" was a Cameronism, he did it all the time.

https://www.uglyducklingpresse.org/wp/CatalogAdmin/uploads/LetMeBeClear_GIANT.jpg

Let Me Be Clear

Shut down moron America—
Republican philosophy functionally
obsolete. This is a conservative issue.
We are moving. In reverse.
(Paid in Bangladesh.)
Not to worry millionaires—tax breaks!

Chambers of Commerce
Chambers of Congress

Inflation dropped education.

People are wasting,
rotting product,
infrastructure.

It is just not good enough.

the cameronic 'let me be clear' is perfect in its assertive evasiveness, that insistence that you're being given something even as a veil is thrown over the stuff you actually want

There's been a lot of "we've been very clear on this" this decade along with the quintessential "Look..."

Let Me Be Clear seems to be the standard precursor of some more bullshit obfuscation by someone who is an habitually dishonest person, or Robbie Savage before he launches into another braindead challop on 5 live.

free speech on campus: important, but not as important as sticking right up johnny eu

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNDl7eCW4AAT26i.jpg

I've experienced a reasonable amount of pro-Brexit bias in the pub, the street, the Daily Mail etc.

do you think I should report it?

"There's been a lot of "we've been very clear on this" this decade along with the quintessential "Look..."

― nashwan, "

Irish football pundits and Listen

. "but Listen, these boys are no mugs"

are universities supposed to have a "non-biased" view on things?

DImbleby giving Jacob Rees Mogg the floor basically... whenever he wants it.

emma barnett to the rescue please.

(she was in his face yesterday morning on r5)

Both Jonathan + David regularly stand down when Mogg talks. More Gulags please!

Deferential.

This is JRM's pitch for PM and I have to say that he is playing very well. The Cunt.

Jacob Rees-Mogg says that women who seek abortion after rape are committing a “second wrong” - @zoe_beaty https://t.co/MI1uVvpCUX pic.twitter.com/piinX3n3fN

— The Pool (@thepooluk) October 26, 2017

The first wrong they committed is being raped.

That is very clearly not what he is saying there.

I mean, obviously fuck JRG and particularly fuck what he's saying there, but Jesus, get one reading comprehension.

*JRM

That's true enough. Thanks Andrew. I think. Maybe tone down the rudeness a notch.

Actually never mind, you're right.

Bah, no I'm sorry now.

The fault is mine for taking that tweet at face value and posting it without even reading it.

I assume what he's really saying there is "big knockers".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/25/memo-to-michael-bloomberg-heres-the-simple-reason-britain-voted-for-brexit

so, phil harrison voted for brexit because its shit where he lives, and wants it to be shit everywhere.

Phil otm