THE DEUCE with David Simon, George Pelecanos, James Franco AND James Franco

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Guess we might as well have a thread for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2pXEzIQnUs

bet HBO are really regretting their investment after the Vinyl debacle

Number None, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 21:24 (three years ago) link

HBO Drops Another Deuce

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 21:36 (three years ago) link

two months pass...

Long preview article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts/television/the-deuce-hbo-david-simon.html

Eazy, Thursday, 24 August 2017 21:11 (two years ago) link

James Franco, who directed two of the first season’s episodes, assumes double acting duty as well. He plays Vincent Martino, an ambitious bartender based on the man who had spun enticing tales of the Deuce, and his twin, Frankie, who shares none of his brother’s reservations about working in the sex trade for the mob.

Eazy, Thursday, 24 August 2017 21:12 (two years ago) link

Does the "actor playing two roles" thing *ever* work out to be better than more than tolerable?
Just get another actor!

calstars, Thursday, 24 August 2017 23:22 (two years ago) link

And Franco is so annoyingly smug all the time. Ugh, not sure about this

calstars, Thursday, 24 August 2017 23:23 (two years ago) link

In the future, TV and movie viewers will be able to swap out actors at will for anyone in the canon.

calstars, Thursday, 24 August 2017 23:24 (two years ago) link

Does the "actor playing two roles" thing *ever* work out to be better than more than tolerable?

Jeffrey Jambor in Arrested Development & Nicholas Cage in Adaptation

but yes, it's almost always a bad idea

Number None, Friday, 25 August 2017 06:28 (two years ago) link

Twin peaks is doing well atm

streeps of range (wins), Friday, 25 August 2017 06:58 (two years ago) link

oh yeah lol

Number None, Friday, 25 August 2017 07:43 (two years ago) link

I am cautiously optimistic about this tbh

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 25 August 2017 08:15 (two years ago) link

but I also loved most of Treme so

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 25 August 2017 08:15 (two years ago) link

Otm

Spottie, Friday, 25 August 2017 15:56 (two years ago) link

first episode is streaming now fyi

sktsh, Sunday, 27 August 2017 15:09 (two years ago) link

*on hbo go that is

sktsh, Sunday, 27 August 2017 15:09 (two years ago) link

they point out that the franco thing is a "based on a real life" thing but man i don't wanna see franco doing the patti duke

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Sunday, 27 August 2017 16:26 (two years ago) link

The patti what

Οὖτις, Sunday, 27 August 2017 16:31 (two years ago) link

it's a reference to patty duke's most famous role

In 2015, Duke made her final TV appearance, guest-starring as Grandma Janice and Great-aunt Hilary, a pair of identical twins, on "Liv and Maddie."

nomar, Sunday, 27 August 2017 17:45 (two years ago) link

and Οὖτις's post was a reference to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgdisnVQf6A

Number None, Sunday, 27 August 2017 17:48 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

renewed for a second season

if i ever watch it wd be for Maggie Gyllenhaal

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 September 2017 01:06 (two years ago) link

Does the "actor playing two roles" thing *ever* work out to be better than more than tolerable?

uhhh, Jeremy Irons for Cronenberg? and the Hammer dude in the Facebook movie, on a more mortal level.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 September 2017 01:08 (two years ago) link

Fargo Season 3 has double the Ewan MacGregor, he's good as them.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 22 September 2017 02:00 (two years ago) link

Morbius OTM was waiting for Dead Ringers...

Week of Wonders (Ross), Friday, 22 September 2017 02:08 (two years ago) link

Keaton in Multiplicity is p funny

Οὖτις, Friday, 22 September 2017 02:13 (two years ago) link

This is really good so far. Feels nice and authentic without the "people playing '70s dressup" vibe of most recent films and tv things set in that decade ( yeah, "Vinyl", I'm looking at you). Cast is excellent.

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 22 September 2017 03:43 (two years ago) link

didn't hate ep one but also not watching anymore of this

johnny crunch, Friday, 22 September 2017 11:13 (two years ago) link

a recommended old VV story on that milieu, "Deep Peep"

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=KEtq3P1Vf8oC&dat=19780501&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 September 2017 17:03 (two years ago) link

I just learned that Margareta Levieva, who plays Abby the NYU dropout on this show, is 37 years old. Her character is supposed to be what, 19? I never would have guessed.

JRN, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:57 (two years ago) link

woah

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:58 (two years ago) link

*Margarita

JRN, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:58 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

i think the latest episode was the first really good one. all of the separate pieces that have been slowly developing - the cops, the mafia, prostitutes and pimps, porno, the francos - are starting to intertwine and it's really satisfying. not unlike, for obvious reasons, the wire.

anyone else watching this? i am trying to break myself out of the habit of calling it "the douche, starring james franco AND james franco as the douche"

Currently (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 14:37 (two years ago) link

didn't hate ep one but also not watching anymore of this

i felt the same way, btw, after watching the first couple. there was almost something exhausting about gearing up for more "prestige television". i know that doesn't make any sense. i suppose i should hold off on expressing any more enthusiasm until there are at least a few really really good episodes in a row, but i'm much more optimistic about that happening than i was at the beginning. there's a lot going on, so now i can see why they took the time to build up the world.

Currently (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 14:45 (two years ago) link

there was almost something exhausting about gearing up for more "prestige television". i know that doesn't make any sense.

literally could not make any more sense

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 14:47 (two years ago) link

haha, well that's nice to hear. i mean, i hear things of that nature from my friends, too. but i'm not sure why i feel that way! "dang it, here's another really well produced serial tv/film, basically, which will bring my enjoyment for the next 2 to 6 years." maybe it's just the exhaustion of knowing that i might be expected to know what's going on with this show, in certain circles, and that if i don't know, i will feel left out?

Currently (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 14:56 (two years ago) link

I'm watching it, it's solid in that particularly un-showy David Simon way where things happen and then some more things happen. Amazingly I don't think very much about James Franco being James Franco, which means this is probably his best role(s)?

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:39 (two years ago) link

And it is driving me insane that for some reason Black Thought is credited as "Tarik Trotter" when everything else he's done has been "Tariq Trotter". Why???

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:40 (two years ago) link

Amazingly I don't think very much about James Franco being James Franco

yeah, i actually don't mind franco but for some reason i really enjoy making fun of james franco, so i'm probably going to keep doing it. speaking of, check out this cool screen capture from imdb's website this morning:

https://i.imgur.com/9ZfjOnf.png

Currently (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:46 (two years ago) link

I like this but it's so slow. Feel like Maggie G had been about to join films for 6 eps now.

Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Thursday, 19 October 2017 13:47 (two years ago) link

HBO’s new ensemble drama “The Deuce” is, among other things, an unflinching show about the sex work industry in 1970s New York. But its most intimate exchange to date takes place in a moment of postcoital vulnerability between lovers. A bedside radio plays the Four Tops’ Motown hit “Baby I Need Your Loving” as Vincent Martino (James Franco), a thirtysomething bar proprietor, and his college-dropout bartender, Abby Parker (Margarita Levieva), lie in each other’s arms. “Do you like this music?” he asks, and her condescending laugh says it all. When he presses her about what she listens to, Abby turns the radio’s dial until she hears “Pale Blue Eyes” by the Velvet Underground. When she starts to tell a story about seeing the band at Max’s Kansas City, Vincent shushes her: “I’m listening.”

rmde

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 19:32 (two years ago) link

That scene was not so good. It did make me wonder whether VU ever got any radio play, even locally in New York.

JRN, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:05 (two years ago) link

yeah that particular kind of um fictional license really leaps out I mean wtf

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:07 (two years ago) link

Yeah that was my least favorite scene in the show so far. Very Treme-era Simon.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 20 October 2017 20:07 (two years ago) link

I saw five minutes of this show. Might have been the first episode, or the fifth, who knows. Seemed ... nothing special, but it did at least look right.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:08 (two years ago) link

God I’m sorry they played a band inaccurately on the radio how did you not shut off the show then and there.

rb (soda), Friday, 20 October 2017 20:13 (two years ago) link

I never even turned it on, problem solved

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:17 (two years ago) link

I'm agnostic on The Wire but this is decent. Paradoxically, its leisurely pace makes me think there needs to be more of it to be effective.

ryan, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:20 (two years ago) link

started watching the first ep and am reserving judgment til I'm through w it but my first thought was what's up with all the blaxploitation tropes and zero mafia guys.

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 October 2017 18:53 (two years ago) link

also lol @ Method Man in a wig

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 October 2017 18:53 (two years ago) link

the mafia guys are present

Number None, Monday, 23 October 2017 18:54 (two years ago) link

I liked the pilot of this but have yet to watch more. tbh I really liked Treme, esp the 2nd and 3rd seasons

Simon H., Monday, 23 October 2017 18:55 (two years ago) link

tension def ramped up this episode. contradictions were heightened, one might say

Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 October 2018 15:35 (one year ago) link

was totally convinced that was David Proval playing the elder Martino in his one scene but apparently not...? That dude did look familiar though.

Οὖτις, Monday, 29 October 2018 15:23 (one year ago) link

Armand Asante

akm, Monday, 29 October 2018 15:42 (one year ago) link

No redemption for CC then.

My favourite new fact is that Blake Leyh wanted to use We Are All Prostitutes as the theme music for season 2 but David Simon wouldn't let him because he felt it was a bit too Do You See.

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Wednesday, 31 October 2018 16:11 (one year ago) link

"let's go with 'This Year's Girl', it's much more subtle"

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 31 October 2018 16:18 (one year ago) link

ten months pass...

It's back, and it's 1985. They are giving us a version of the Jack Maple policing story. This show is great, but still feels pretty low-stakes.

DJI, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 18:24 (eight months ago) link

so this is gonna be the "who is going to get AIDS?!" season eh

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:56 (eight months ago) link

Yeah I guess :/

DJI, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:02 (eight months ago) link

Sex, lies and videotape

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:11 (eight months ago) link

"wolfpacks", AIDS, some anachronisms in the dialogue ( "run it back"? Who used that on the streets of NYC in '84?!) and a bit of a messy covering-all-bases feeling. Kind of a disappointing start.

Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:17 (eight months ago) link

Very much a "torn from today's headlines!!" vibe in the writing that felt facile. Let's see where they go. Still, the recreation of mid-80s NYC in the production- at least what I recall of it - is often uncanny.

Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:22 (eight months ago) link

it continues to look and sound incredible but it's kind of all over the place narratively

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:24 (eight months ago) link

like, I can't keep either Franco character's personal relationships straight

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:25 (eight months ago) link

Yeah and I'm finding them the least interesting characters at the moment.

Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:28 (eight months ago) link

lol yeah it's weird how they have this twin plot set-up and then basically do nothing with it, they might as well be two non-identical twins played by different actors

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:29 (eight months ago) link

if this ends with "good" Franco getting whacked in a case of mistaken identity because the "bad" Franco crosses the mob I am going to rmde

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:30 (eight months ago) link

lol

Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 12 September 2019 16:42 (eight months ago) link

i could not follow what bad Franco brother aws up to in this episode at all. What was the deal with meeting the dude in the car? what was he selling? Why did he borrow that video equipment and make that video with the family? what was going on?

akm, Sunday, 15 September 2019 15:26 (eight months ago) link

the thing in the car I could follow - he has a side hussle w the gangster underling that the mob boss/Jackie Jr (no I can't remember the actual character name) doesn't know about.

No idea what the family/video camera thing was about cuz I was like "wait, he still has a family? who are these people?"

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 September 2019 16:40 (eight months ago) link

his side hussle is alluded to later when the mob boss/Jackie Jr asks about his loyalty/that he would never cut him out of anything. So there's some obvious foreshadowing going on there.

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 September 2019 16:41 (eight months ago) link

hussle & flo

now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Monday, 16 September 2019 18:33 (eight months ago) link

two weeks pass...

did they not subtly just put a dworkin character in here yikes

mh, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 01:48 (eight months ago) link

LOL after last season I was wondering how long it would be before she got namedropped!

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 01:54 (eight months ago) link

Did anybody have Shay for HIV bingo?

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 02:05 (eight months ago) link

show finally delivers what we'd all been waiting for: first Franco kissing himself, and then Franco playing a death scene w himself

Οὖτις, Friday, 4 October 2019 15:47 (seven months ago) link

I admit that for long stretches of this show I was befuddled by the Jackie Aprile guy's good-guy gangster routine. I was always expecting him to do a heel turn at some point. But now I see that I wanted it to be one way but it was really the other way. :(

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 19:24 (seven months ago) link

Great episode this week. Candy's monologue was heartbreaking.

DJI, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:24 (seven months ago) link

that was a liiiiiitle on the nose, but honestly what I liked most about it was Krumholtz's change in reaction from bored/looking at his watch at the beginning and then "oh shit I feel so ashamed" at the end (perhaps mirroring the audience, I suppose)

last couple eps have been very good tho. the one plotline idgaf about is the ex-pornstar and her estranged dad.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:29 (seven months ago) link

Lori is the only plot I'm still invested in tbh

So, your CV says you're a (checks notes) DJ and stand-up comedian (aldo), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:29 (seven months ago) link

so I wonder if we’re going to get a follow up on Larry or did his story just end w season 2 finale when Darlene dipped out?

(I haven’t seen the latest episode btw)

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:34 (seven months ago) link

I don't think we're gonna see Larry again

they did (briefly) bring back my favorite minor character - the porn shop owner from S1

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 20:36 (seven months ago) link

well that sure was grim. was that the end? where do any of these characters go from here?

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 15:14 (seven months ago) link

Finale next week.

My guess is Vincent gets killed, Candy gives up her film rather than do the deal offered by Lori's manager (after what happens at the end of this week's ep) and the brothel shuts down as NYC cleans up/gentrifies.

Who else has a story to resolve?

So, your CV says you're a (checks notes) DJ and stand-up comedian (aldo), Wednesday, 23 October 2019 15:20 (seven months ago) link

I think the final episode has to be somewhat of a constructive, if depressing, coda after this one. Or at least one with actual destruction of part of the neighborhood and new, sleek high-rises going up. Abby's speech was the writers speaking to the audience, and it almost felt set up enough to not be clunky. Well, not incredibly clunky.

mh, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 16:45 (seven months ago) link

Abby is the worst major written character on this by some distance, that speech was terrible. "I'm a bartender, I served the damned and the damnable" yeah that's a thing bartenders say...

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 16:59 (seven months ago) link

well she's supposed to be an intellectual who just happens to be a bartender but yeah.

this last episode was incredibly depressing, I was shocked by Lori's end even though it was obviously coming.

akm, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 17:04 (seven months ago) link

I can't say I saw either of these recent violent deaths coming (although I should have) but the shocks felt kind of cheap in how grim and manipulative they were. not the first time in this series by any stretch, but just the sort of ruthless dispatching of sympathetic characters - it's harsh.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 17:13 (seven months ago) link

the thing with Abby is that she's such a *writer's* character, she feels more like a construct than a person. Like they needed a character to serve as an intersection for all these other ideas (feminism, anti-porn crusaders, a moral conscience for Franco, academia, the artsier side of 70s/80s NY) but they never bothered to give her any kind of lived experience or motivation that makes sense, she's just this collection of signifiers. Like they *really* wanted to get Dworkin and McKinnon in there and then worked back from there to a character that would tie them in.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 17:17 (seven months ago) link

agreed

I feel like there are a lot of threads they wanted to tackle and may have had a full series outline but a lot of characters got short-changed, or they got notes that viewers might not get why the gentrification was bad outside of the forced nature and shady dealing, so they just explicitly threw in some monologues

Abby's character seemed to have a bit more potential but hasn't done much other than speechify or be a window into the art/political scene for a while

Franco and Gyllenhaal having production credits didn't hurt their characters' screen time

mh, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 17:23 (seven months ago) link

finale was going well and suddenly we hit a flash forward to 2019 and I paused to post here with

OH NOOOOOO

why?

mh, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 02:39 (seven months ago) link

well, I get why, having seen some twitter douche unironicly posing a picture of a relatively clean 70s street with a theater showing foreign films ensconced with porn theaters and sex parlors juxtaposed with the modern corporate times square as an ideal

it’s a different draw with different sins and rules, and we’ve conflated supposed crimes of morality and decency with violence and exploitation, without realizing you can police the latter without jumping on a high horse and excising the former. and, as they hammered in with the field trip to the bronx, you can’t really excise

way to reach out and bludgeon the latter day time square tourist hbo viewers, though

mh, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 02:57 (seven months ago) link

i thought it was ok other than his terrible makeup. Abby walking through at the very end was a good touch.

akm, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 20:10 (seven months ago) link

minor takeaway from this series : Black Frankie = style icon

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 20:49 (seven months ago) link

otm about Abby

mh, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 21:19 (seven months ago) link

three months pass...

as someone who is a contemporary, I thought this reminiscence of '70s Times Square by Tim Sommer was p accurate

https://observer.com/2017/11/more-than-the-deuce-a-recollection-of-times-square-in-1979/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 February 2020 17:35 (three months ago) link

just remembered I never bothered to watch the last episode of this lol

Οὖτις, Thursday, 6 February 2020 17:49 (three months ago) link

sleazy is not what I’d call it.

Followed immediately by:

Yes, the sheer density of porn culture and commerce was extraordinary (even the most lurid panoramas don’t do it justice), but that’s not my strongest memory of the area. What I remember most is the noise: the constant babble of the drug peddlers, hookers and three-card monte dealers, the rhythmic hollers of people selling shoe shines and salvation and hot dogs, the constant click and clack and cough of the barkers trying to get you into their strip bars and massage parlors.

Sounds pretty ... sleazy? I mean, if he's going to cite big boobed clickbait on the internet as sleazy, then, yeah, what he describes is at least that.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 February 2020 19:23 (three months ago) link

nostalgia = sleaze + time

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 6 February 2020 19:44 (three months ago) link

heh

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 February 2020 20:00 (three months ago) link

the last episode is really good

akm, Thursday, 6 February 2020 20:09 (three months ago) link


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