LINE OF DUTY: cop-on-cop action TV procedural that demands analysis

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not actually new but I only just binge-scovered it on netflix (overlooked ftb boring name i guess): caught up w/s1/2 since sunday, started s3 late yesterday, will get to s4 in next couple days no doubt

the anti-corruption ppl try to reign in the corrupt ppl, except who is which? and who will win? lots of things to enjoy, some things that bug me

SPOILERY NOTES FOLLOW, tracer i need yr input here
a: neil morrissey has (a) turned into cary grant kinda, and (b) shd give up comedy, he's good at serious sleazy drama!
b: it is great at shock developments (on sun i told myself "just one more ep b4 bed" and hence confronted self w/a home invasion and a throat-cutting)
c: it seems happy to bump off characters you assume will be around for a while
d: a couple of the are-they-aren't-they villains have been a bit swervy as plausible character types (i'm thinking dryden mainly)
e: lol they shd make a dexter-style tec series round denton, she solves crimes FROM PRISON on the days she's let out or something -- anyway she was terrific to spend time with, as a "who/what exactly is she?" kind of an invention you invest a lot of sympathy in and then omg
f: i'm hearing a bit of jumps-the-shark talk abt the most recent developments (hence girding my challopsy loins for the argts)
g: at heart it's *very* ACAB (even the good ones are arseholes, and treachery institutionally determined)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 09:57 (four years ago) link

neil morrissey has (a) turned into cary grant kinda

https://onceuponascreen.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/33.gif?w=798

tony orlandoni, cheese engineer (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:02 (four years ago) link

gonna need a bit more unpacking of that one

tony orlandoni, cheese engineer (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:03 (four years ago) link

looks strangely like him now, has evolved unexpected silverback gravitas, real name archibald leach

(it doesn't really work obv, since cary g was all abt the comedy even in serious roles, and neil is -- it turns out -- only tolerable when he isn't being one bit comical)

(but he does look like cg all of a sudden) (possibly bcz acting with a stick reveals his previously less-evident tallness)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:10 (four years ago) link

i've been meaning to get around to watching this show for a while and i think this frankly startling news is the gonna be the tipping point

tony orlandoni, cheese engineer (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:13 (four years ago) link

is recommend, esp. in 5-hrs-at-a-time splurges :)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:19 (four years ago) link

i've heard nothing but good things, but i think i might have spoiled a bit of it a while back by catching what appeared to be the unexpected death of a major character while i was channel-hopping :(

tony orlandoni, cheese engineer (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:22 (four years ago) link

no doubt this thread will not help much with that issue :|

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:23 (four years ago) link

i'm out, back asap

tony orlandoni, cheese engineer (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:26 (four years ago) link

is recommend, esp. in 5-hrs-at-a-time splurges :)

Yep, watched the last series back-to-back on a flight and it was excellent - though i am not sure i entirely got what Denton was up to in the grand scheme of things.

The finale was audaciously silly in a way that worked surprisingly well.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:28 (four years ago) link

sticking w/denton as a dexter-esque "the darkest villain is the best cop" invention

"maverick you say? hold my beer"

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 10:34 (four years ago) link

i'm hearing a bit of jumps-the-shark talk abt the most recent developments

Not so far!

I think the show has vaccinated itself against shark-jumping by being very silly indeed and almost always getting away with it. There's an amazing moment in the season three finale involving a text message that's Adam-West-Batman-level preposterous - you'll know it when you see it - but the way it plays out is quite fun and exciting.

When Doctor Who and other BBC shows go blockbuster, I tend to eyeroll - but this show seems unique its ability to be "gritty realistic" and also totally daft at the same time - the momentum always keeps you from questioning the story. It's almost Ian Fleming-like.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 14:15 (four years ago) link

End of the last season seemed to be pretty shark jumping for various character interpersonal and behaviour reasons. But I'm lookiing at the new one anyway.

But the guy from forensics may be getting himself a little type cast.
& hope that Tandie's in throughout the season.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 14:21 (four years ago) link

it has some of the best queasily confrontational hostile interviewing i think i've ever watched -- where you really aren't sure who you want to root for, when both sides are quite compromised and also quite unpleasant ppl (or have anyway recently behaved unpleasantly)

and this seems to happen in nearly every episode! as if the somewhat ludicrous turns the story often takes are devised purely to engineer these confrontations (i mean, i kind of assume they are)

a couple of those involved are a bit too mask-like too often maybe

good work too with police computer systems: all horrible 90s design and typefaces, the opposite of CSI nonsense

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 14:29 (four years ago) link

DENTON

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 16:54 (four years ago) link

When do we get to talk about the ending of S4E1? That was preposterous (in a good way, like most of the rest of it, esp that text message moment mentioned upthread. Happy Valley it ain't).

Lindsay Denton is/was a fascinating character though. As are/were Nige and Dot and Dryden. I still love the bit at the end of S1 where someone was chopping Arnott's finger off in a vice and he was trying to arrest them for assaulting a police officer as they were doing it.

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 17:26 (four years ago) link

i am still watching S3! (ep3 right now)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 17:28 (four years ago) link

OMG the "truth and reconciliation" face off!!!

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 18:54 (four years ago) link

the guy who plays matthew "dot" cottan is probably my least favourite main actor

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 20:11 (four years ago) link

arnott increasingly reminds me lookwise of someone i know really well -- tho obviously not very like him in temperament

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 20:32 (four years ago) link

WAIT WHAAAAAAAAT?????

(i have just reached the operation yewtree reveal)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 20:40 (four years ago) link

hastings is terrific

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 20:48 (four years ago) link

Yeah, I love Hastings.

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:02 (four years ago) link

The Dale Roach/Rochdale "ha, doesn't he look like Cyril Smith", "oh, look, here's Jimmy Savile" bit was HI DERE LET US HIT YOU WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:02 (four years ago) link

BEST SLEDGEHAMMER EVER :D

sadly followed now by a v sad sledgehammer :(

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:16 (four years ago) link

one of the little things i like is ppl being interviewed constantly complaining abt the aggressive and hurtful tone being used

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:18 (four years ago) link

My favourite moments are when Fleming stands on the AC-12 balcony, and a SUSPICIOUS GLARE-OFF erupts between Kate and whoever's leaving the building.

Aside from that - the ending to the season four premiere suggests the new season will just be an extended game of exquisite corpse

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:48 (four years ago) link

*MARK MAY NOT WANT TO READ THIS NEXT BIT*

I dunno, it might be fun to subvert the "hi, we have a new lead actor, OH LOOK THEY'RE DEAD" trope.

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:54 (four years ago) link

*CARRY ON NOT LOOKING MARK*

I assumed they were deliberately leading you into thinking they'd pulled the same trick as last time, until the very last second. I guess we'll find out next week...

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:58 (four years ago) link

ok lol i have just completed series 3

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 22:47 (four years ago) link

thinking of meetings where i'd have liked to have sent that text

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 22:54 (four years ago) link

*MARK MAY OR MAY NOT ASSUME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SERIES 4 HERE*

Series 1-3 all killed off leading actors who were meant to have prominent roles really early on - Gina McKee in S1 (to be fair, she lasted until episode 2), that lass from Call the Midwife that went out the window in S2, then Daniel Mays in S3. It's totally a thing, so much so that we were taking bets as to who was going to bite it by the end.

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:02 (four years ago) link

In fact, did they not off Will Mellor quite early on last year as well?

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:04 (four years ago) link

yes i had spotted this trend and am unlikely to be totally startled by its early resumption in s4

mutton-chops guy playing bowls has needed arresting since he was bob in RITA, SUE AND BOB TOO (1987)

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:08 (four years ago) link

He was a nice bloke in Happy Valley though iirc.

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:12 (four years ago) link

Although we've been cheated out of a good Neil Morrissey death scene

Personally I fear for Hastings this year

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:13 (four years ago) link

His replacement will be Zombie Denton, the best copper in history

mark s, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:16 (four years ago) link

I think I mentioned elsewhere how last year there were loads of folk on Twitter going "OMG IT WAS A TRUE STORY" just because they did they "Nige retired on a full pension, Kate was given a medal of honour" type summary over the credits, people took that to be what actually happened to real people rather than a lazy plot device.

btw, since Kate went full-on action hero and got herself a medal at a big showy ceremony, how come she still gets to go undercover as a mystery secondee called Kate and no-one ever still knows who she is?

ailsa, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 23:30 (four years ago) link

i liked the end summaries in the earlier series: they were p much "wrong person is jailed, corrupt cops still at large and in charge, everything is fucked and getting worse"

mark s, Thursday, 30 March 2017 10:36 (four years ago) link

ok i am up to speed lol

i worry a bit abt banging my own head like that on my kitchen top

mark s, Friday, 31 March 2017 20:42 (four years ago) link

e1 s4 was not on the whole a good episode

mark s, Friday, 31 March 2017 20:47 (four years ago) link

it's been a big year for kitchentop headbang deaths (see also search party)

i'm pretty sure that, unless you bull charge your kitchen top from fifty feet away, you're unlikely to injure yourself more than a mild boink

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 31 March 2017 22:09 (four years ago) link

i enjoyed the first episode of the news season, btw

although yes it does seem like the show is resting on its tropes for the first time

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 31 March 2017 22:11 (four years ago) link

i am not going to stop watching

mark s, Friday, 31 March 2017 22:15 (four years ago) link

neil morrissey very much not cary grant in one important respect: not handsome

||||||||, Friday, 31 March 2017 22:20 (four years ago) link

come on they're basically twins

http://yeoldecybershoppe.com/malahide/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Boon_In-It-for-the-Monet-008.jpg

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 31 March 2017 22:29 (four years ago) link

HERE BE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED LAST NIGHT YET

Trope subverted! (though still managed to kill off a potentially major character, just not the one we were expecting)

Thandie was fair compos mentis for someone who had just survived a fairly major bump to the head though, eh?

ailsa, Monday, 3 April 2017 13:02 (four years ago) link

I can't believe that every inch of that evidence room isn't covered by CCTV

nate woolls, Monday, 3 April 2017 13:03 (four years ago) link

Yeah, that was kind of ridiculous. Also can't believe Steve's being considered for promotion after all the fuck-ups in the Denton case, let alone the fact he never spotted Dot being shifty for three years.

ailsa, Monday, 3 April 2017 13:19 (four years ago) link

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ailsa, Sunday, 9 April 2017 21:01 (four years ago) link

I'm stoked for the madness, going to dip in tonight. And I see that fella from Sex Education is in this too.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 2 September 2021 10:14 (two weeks ago) link

I'm watching it, like the novelty of the nightmarish sub setting, although it's already ridiculously formulaic outside of that.

kinder, Thursday, 2 September 2021 11:59 (two weeks ago) link

I'm enjoying it too, it's like a supergroup for Sunday night cop dramas.

The thematic convenience of the lead copper's backstory is so brazen it's almost matrix-breaking. ("A death underwater in an enclosed space? Let's send our best copper, the one who's husband died recently underwater in an enclosed space. QED!")

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 2 September 2021 12:44 (two weeks ago) link

Yes, Chuck Tatum's last point is fair - this plot element is absurd.

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?) to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

In a sense she should be able to say: If you're not going to let me do the job, I won't do it - let me off on the promised "raft" ASAP.

A more positive way to put that is that the programme hinges on authority - the authority of the police vs that of the Navy. It shows you how much the LoD police benefit from their authority, when interrogating people, being so strong. (Though come to think of it, even in LoD that authority is questioned and one element of the force is pitted against another.)

the pinefox, Thursday, 2 September 2021 13:13 (two weeks ago) link

I feel like the constant "undermining" is what makes the story interesting (apart from the setting).

We're used to TV coppers having free access to everything and everyone -- so it's fun and satisfying when the suspects are, like, "fuck off, I'm not telling you" - which feels like a much more realistic response!

From an ACAB perspective, we're (I suppose) supposed to like the detective, because the baddies are even more authoritarian than she is.

The mystery itself (the poison, the heroin, etc.) is locked-room-Christie-by-numbers so far.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 2 September 2021 14:00 (two weeks ago) link

so it's fun and satisfying when the suspects are, like, "fuck off, I'm not telling you" - which feels like a much more realistic response!

I don't share this reaction. I find it unsatisfying, frustrating, even mildly upsetting - as this detective has already made such a sacrifice just to do this job.

But I also don't concur with your premise - in fact, I have an opposite view - because a thing that I notice a great deal on detective dramas is ordinary people being aloof, evasive or insulting with cops, in a way that could not happen in real life.

Many examples of this on THE BRIDGE where Saga Noren & partner will drive to a farmhouse, warehouse or whatever to interview the owner, who will vaguely give them 30 seconds of his time, while still attending to something else, and may make a dismissive remark about the police.

To a lesser extent, I think the same dynamic occurs in LoD.

Presumably in reality they'd sit the person down in a private place (even at their own business), that person would be quite nervous and scared, they'd give the police as long as they wanted (the idea that you could say 'I've got work to do' as a way to cut a police interrogation short! Absurd!), respectfully answer everything they were asked, and be effusively polite as the police left.

The VIGIL submarine crew have a rationale (Navy authority) for enacting an extreme version of this, I think, very unrealistic typical 'member of the public' behaviour.

the pinefox, Thursday, 2 September 2021 14:15 (two weeks ago) link

I often used to shout at The Bridge "just threaten to arrest them for obstruction of justice!"

Believe me, grow a lemon tree. (ledge), Thursday, 2 September 2021 14:16 (two weeks ago) link

Yes.

the pinefox, Thursday, 2 September 2021 14:20 (two weeks ago) link

to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

Amusingly for me, even though my job is not IMPORTANT and LIFECHANGING, this has often been my experience as a contractor.

trishyb, Thursday, 2 September 2021 14:42 (two weeks ago) link

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?)

Her colleague (and lover?) asks this explicitly on the drive to the helicopter. "Could you have said no?" And the detective just gives a blank look and says "It didn't come up". It doesn't occur to her to say no. She's a 'good solider' in her way. Trust is put in her, she's the best detective her boss has got. She's going to get on with it.

In a sense she should be able to say: If you're not going to let me do the job, I won't do it - let me off on the promised "raft" ASAP.

See above. This is clearly not the kind of person she is. I'd suggest that pretty much every detective protagonist in the history of literature is not this kind of person. Good drama in the conventional sense requires going through the problem, not walking away from it.

A more positive way to put that is that the programme hinges on authority - the authority of the police vs that of the Navy. It shows you how much the LoD police benefit from their authority, when interrogating people, being so strong. (Though come to think of it, even in LoD that authority is questioned and one element of the force is pitted against another.)

Yes, and I'd say the conflict in this is generated pretty much the same way that it is in LoD. Coppers arresting coppers. Is that possible? Who's in charge? Where does power come from? The stars on your uniform? The precision of your arguments? Who you can persuade?

Vigil is LoD with the difficulty setting turned up to 'Extreme'. The wall of silence and distrust thicker and higher. No way of sending a message. But essentially the same sorts of tensions and questions. And the delicious moment when a dickhead gets his comeuppance!

Tracer Hand, Friday, 3 September 2021 12:59 (two weeks ago) link

I'd say it's a founding principle of LoD there is a strong sense that AC-12 *does* have the formal authority to haul anyone in, and the other branches of the police have to go along with it. This level of authority is something I like about the scenario.

But this is eroded along the way, up to the end of the last series where, as I recall, AC-12 is virtually closed down.

I agree that it's pleasurable when the unpleasant officer is arrested and forced to confess in VIGIL #2 - though it switches very quickly to an implication that he's not the true villain, is more sympathetic than we'd thought, etc.

the pinefox, Saturday, 4 September 2021 11:03 (two weeks ago) link

I can't find anything to say about this but it's fine and I'll keep watching

in a bar, under the (seandalai), Monday, 6 September 2021 01:09 (two weeks ago) link

I have watched a couple of episodes but I am struggling a bit. Fair points on good soldier/conflict Tracer, but she really, really shouldn't have agreed to go on the boat with her water/confinement issues, or someone in the office should have thought it through & not sent her (there are also points where I'm thinking 'jfc let them get on with fixing the nuclear reactor, the murder can wait' but that's why I am not a TV detective).

Maybe LoD has spoiled me, but I am finding Rose Leslie's investigations undramatic or clunky - she just asks people things and they tell her. If I were an anti-nuclear protestor, I'm not sure I'd talk to a cop just because they say 'I'm not the navy & won't tell the navy anything, promise'. I started thinking it's some kind of rebuff to the LoD dramatic/complex interrogation, but prob just clumsy.

It's like plot is driving character maybe.

Also finding performances a bit off, even from actors I usually like (Paterson Joseph, Sex Ed Adam). Suranne Jones & the coxswain only ones cutting through for me.

I'll keep watching tho.

woof, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 14:24 (one week ago) link

she just asks people things and they tell her

ha, yes. or if they don't tell her, she asks them again a little bit later and then they tell her.

stet, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 15:00 (one week ago) link

Sometimes they don't tell them something important like a password but then do, a little bit later, moments before they snuff it in the most telegraphed manner possible

Some of it is so formulaic I am literally saying the lines along with the characters e.g. 'she's my daughter' by that politician

It's kind of good old-fashioned fun I suppose.

kinder, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 15:12 (one week ago) link

I tend to agree with these criticisms.

It's sadly no LoD.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 16:17 (one week ago) link

I agree with all of these criticisms but Suranne is watchable enough even in terrible things that I forgive them everything (bar them naming the wrong road where the multi storey car park was - if you're using a real street name, use the right one)

ailsa, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 16:33 (one week ago) link

It's frustrating how the detective has agreed (did she have any choice?) to do this exceptionally challenging job, and as soon as she starts it, she is utterly undermined by the people who are supposed to be enabling her investigation - saying "You're under my command", "You can only talk to this suspect for 30 seconds, while walking", etc.

More of this last night. These minor characters keeping letting loose a few tantalizing words, then they quickly shuffle off with a "I shouldn't even be talking to you!" Why not? Isn't this a sanctioned investigation?

Sam Weller, Monday, 13 September 2021 12:31 (one week ago) link

I was excited by reference to Renfrew Street (late in episode 3). I no longer recall whether it has said car park on it or not.

I quite like seeing Glasgow on screen, but then, would really like to see more of it. Maybe I should ... watch a programme that isn't mainly set on a submarine.

Last night (4/6): the plot seems to be getting ever more dense with fairly random new elements - Russian spies? Do we get aliens in episode 5?

Unlike others, I don't greatly enjoy watching Suranne Jones, and also didn't greatly enjoy watching the two women's protracted, gradual flashback flirtation, etc, last night. But I can imagine that some feel very differently about this.

I quite enjoy watching the submarine Captain.

I suppose I'm a bit disappointed on balance because the 'from the creators of LoD', for me, sets the bar so high, but without 'from the creators of LoD' I might not be watching.

the pinefox, Monday, 13 September 2021 12:59 (one week ago) link

As with the last season of LoD and Bodyguard, there are so many elements of this that feel jarringly bad / clunky, even in comparison to a lot of the BBC’s middling drama output. I don’t know whether greater autonomy on the part of the producers is leading to the dialogue / plotting coming over like a first draft.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Monday, 13 September 2021 13:00 (one week ago) link

Of course but that directly conflicts with other obligations of duty - real or imagined - and other chains of command, other sanctioned operations. This show, even more than LoD, is a lot about sovereignty and what legitimises that sovereignty in the minds of its executors.

I like how MI5 swoop in and suddenly it’s Longacre et al who are uncooperative. “What did you tell them?” “As little as possible.”

xposts The “you’re a decent man” line definitely clanked. Felt like there was probably a scribbled note next to it in the script saying “Insert real words here”

Tracer Hand, Monday, 13 September 2021 13:03 (one week ago) link

I think that’s part of the problem for me. MI5, the Navy command, even the police to some extent, never feel like fleshed out structures, in the way that AC12, the LoD commissioner’s office do. The ‘clash of institutions’ element falls flat if you don’t know or care enough about the institutions.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Monday, 13 September 2021 13:10 (one week ago) link

That's well said.

I do, though, like the senior copper, Longacre's boss, who almost always seems to do the right thing and protect his own officers.

But this reminds me to say: I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

That sounded to me like narrative vaguery posturing as serious realpolitik talk.

the pinefox, Monday, 13 September 2021 13:42 (one week ago) link

was excited by reference to Renfrew Street (late in episode 3). I no longer recall whether it has said car park on it or not.

It doesn't have a car park on it. I'm fairly sure the car park was the one on Waterloo Street.

ailsa, Monday, 13 September 2021 14:40 (one week ago) link

I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

pretty sure that this is possible even if not a spy : harry dunn case ?

mark e, Monday, 13 September 2021 15:12 (one week ago) link

Right but she fled before she was identified. This guy was in cuffs with evidence everywhere. It felt off to me too.

Agree that the cultures of the different agencies aren't very fleshed out and it would be better if they were. I do feel like the life on the submarine is well done. It feels real. Although this does seem like possibly the most dysfunctional sub crew ever assembled in the history of the British navy!

Tracer Hand, Monday, 13 September 2021 15:16 (one week ago) link

But this reminds me to say: I'm not sure that a spy, working under some kind of diplomatic immunity, would be able to commit murder and assault a police officer, and walk away from it because of the diplomatic immunity.

My knowledge of diplomatic immunity comes solely from Lethal Weapon 3 where AIUI you can do whatever the hell you like until someone shoots you and says 'Revoked!!!'

kinder, Monday, 13 September 2021 15:49 (one week ago) link

Tracer Hand's comments are OTM.

Worst. Crew. Ever.

And yes, I would have thought, a difference between a diplomat who has returned to their home nation, and someone who has been arrested and is being interrogated for murder in another country.

the pinefox, Monday, 13 September 2021 16:47 (one week ago) link

If you’re attached to the London consulate, you can’t be arrested for anything unless your government waives the right. If you’re not, you can potentially be arrested for extremely serious crimes.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Monday, 13 September 2021 16:55 (one week ago) link

she just asks people things and they tell her

I used to enjoy the original CSI until i realise the guilty party never lied, they just hadnt been asked the right question yet

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2021 18:21 (one week ago) link

Although this does seem like possibly the most dysfunctional sub crew ever assembled in the history of the British navy!

Tv writers, above any other similar profession, seem prone to throwing quality control out the window once their name gets big enough to merit mention above the title

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2021 18:23 (one week ago) link

i hate when spy stuff extrudes into real-world stuff, spies make nothing real happen and they shd stay contained in their relevant dramaspheres

mark s, Monday, 13 September 2021 19:12 (one week ago) link

It’s possible it is a red herring. Not sure how the alternative of ‘ok, they know it’s us but I guess we might as well sink the nuclear submarine anyway’ would play out.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Monday, 13 September 2021 19:19 (one week ago) link

My biggest "hmmm" moment so far was the scene where the submarine narrowly avoided crashing into a ship because... the captain saw it on his periscope first?! Surely nuclear submarine radar technology has improved since the days of Tintin books and my children's bathtime

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 13 September 2021 19:48 (one week ago) link

show should have been called BAD SUBMARINE

Tracer Hand, Monday, 13 September 2021 19:49 (one week ago) link

Tincan sailor, staller, spy

fix up luke shawp (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2021 19:55 (one week ago) link

Latest episode had my worst trope - police instantly knowing what they're looking for because the plot demands it.
The spy has been posting a series of images online, no doubt passing information digitally!
Ah yes, it must be 'hidden in the pixels'. Check the pixels. Oh, there it is.

kinder, Monday, 13 September 2021 19:57 (one week ago) link

Unclear why MI5 were **threateningly** chasing Longacre for several days when they just wanted to politely ask her a few questions, then immediately joined her side anyway?

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 13 September 2021 19:59 (one week ago) link

she wasn’t sharing information with them like they’d asked so i guess they felt they had to go in hard.

on a different note, what was the malcontent sailor up to with that set of.. keys or whatever that he took from a locker. and did that have anything to do with his subsequent reporting of a tampered-with lock (which for all the world looked like it had been bought for £5.99 at B&Q)?

Tracer Hand, Monday, 13 September 2021 21:32 (one week ago) link

The good points are coming in thick and fast and TBH it's not looking great for VIGIL.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 08:58 (one week ago) link

Other than Martin Compston, what exactly is the link to LoD? It's marketed as "from the makers of" but none of the writers or creators were involved with LoD so is it just the production company or something?

This week's interview scene with the Russian spy just emphasized that this is very much not LoD

groovypanda, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:31 (one week ago) link

Agree, and GroovyPanda's case is good - we think of this as connected with LoD, but maybe it isn't much.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:36 (one week ago) link

Latest episode had my worst trope - police instantly knowing what they're looking for because the plot demands it.
The spy has been posting a series of images online, no doubt passing information digitally!
Ah yes, it must be 'hidden in the pixels'. Check the pixels. Oh, there it is.

― kinder,

this.
i genuinely LOL'd when that happened.

mark e, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:46 (one week ago) link

Time was, a moment like that would have been greeted with "In the... pixels? But how??" but now everyone's seen the ol' steganography trick so many times that everyone's just, right, fishing pics, it might as well be a public email. Funny how the peace camp protestor is savvy enough to use an "encrypted app" to make undetected phone calls to whoever she wants but the trained GRU operative uses fishing messageboards like it's still 1995?

LOOK I STILL LIKE THE SHOW OKAY ESPECIALLY THE PARTS ON THE BAD SUBMARINE

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:53 (one week ago) link

My other favourite part is tracking when Longacre's hair gets tucked into her turned up coat collar, and when it doesn't. i feel like the former is when she's really buckling down to serious detecting and the latter is when she needs to impress some public persona.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:56 (one week ago) link

Look maybe I have a thing for her hair, okay? I'm big enough to admit that. I'm still laser focused in my assessments of this piece of television drama. It won't affect my judgment. At all. Mmmmmm hair.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 09:59 (one week ago) link

For me, this captures the "vibe" of late-period LOD* - a propulsive and tense narrative, an entertaining mystery, and some enjoyably ridiculous bad writing.

Part of the tension comes, not just from the narrative tension, but the sense that the whole series could teeter into shark-jump territory at any moment.

Also it's a lot better than Vera.

* i.e. seasons 4 and 6, not season 5 which was dreadful

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 11:47 (one week ago) link

alright mate

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 12:25 (one week ago) link

The shark, in this series, could be ... an actual shark.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 19:50 (one week ago) link

but now everyone's seen the ol' steganography trick so many times

I haven't, Tracer, and have never heard this word before.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 19:51 (one week ago) link


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