a quick poll about Russia and Donald Trump

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Much chatter about this business, some of it "here it is, the smoking gun!" and some of it "smoke and mirrors will always ensnare the gullible." What is your opinion: is this something, or nothing?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
something 37
nothing 8


though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:10 (two years ago) Permalink

I think it's something, just not the Manchurain Candidate LARP people want it to be.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:11 (two years ago) Permalink

I think it's something, just not the Manchurain Candidate LARP people want it to be.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:11 (two years ago) Permalink

there's a bunch of something but it may never become clear during this presidency

millwallreptile (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:11 (two years ago) Permalink

Wow what an annoying bug

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:12 (two years ago) Permalink

oh and what DJP said it's far more old-fashioned corruption and back-scratching than a masterplan to destroy the US

millwallreptile (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:12 (two years ago) Permalink

Wow what an annoying bug

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:13 (two years ago) Permalink

sorry

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:13 (two years ago) Permalink

There is something, probably more than just 'something', but the smoking gun stuff is tiring. I think there's a lot of pieces that need to be puzzled together. NV otm though that's is not some masterminded thing but mostly stupidity and surrounding himself with stupid fraudster where Trump's concerned.

Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:16 (two years ago) Permalink

i have it on good authority that after just a few hundred more tweets about trump and russia, bernie will finally be president

sleepingbag, Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:17 (two years ago) Permalink

i have it on good authority that after just a few hundred more tweets about trump and russia, bernie will finally be president

this is kinda the function of this poll - to talk about whether this stuff is mainly heroes-and-villains control-the-dialogue stuff, or whether there's actual dirt in it, and why one does or doesn't think so

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:24 (two years ago) Permalink

From the moment the DNC leaks happened one day before the Dem convention, this was a scandal. Already back then, the information pointed to Russia. And yet there was no bi-partisan condemnation. That was already scandalous.

Also, what should be incredibly obvious, but the main reason leftists like Greenwald are trying to downplay everything is because they played a key role all along. With the DNC leaks meant to harm with the Sanders wing, and the first Podesta emails including snippets of Goldman Sachs speeches, this was always obviously the Russians trying to create harm with the left, and would never have been so harmful if they hadn't taken the bait 100%.

Frederik B, Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:36 (two years ago) Permalink

so, heroes and villains, you're saying

though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:45 (two years ago) Permalink

I suspect the gist of it is that Trump surrounded himself with cranks and shady business people who couldn't get a seat at the table with more mainstream Republicans. Some of them, like Flynn, are more than usually sympathetic to Russia - probably in Flynn's case because he was paid and taken seriously as a critic of the Obama government when nobody else was interested in him. Some, like Manafort and Cohen, don't have any particular political axe to grind but have found the region a useful place to make shady money.

I do t think there will be evidence of a quid-pro-quo. Partly because, if Russia did provide the emails to Wikileaks, there was enough animus there towards Clinton to have done it anyway, partly because there doesn't seem to be any change of direction in the relationship with Russia. The sanctions have been reconfirmed, the inviolability of Ukrainian sovereignty loudly proclaimed and plans for a vast US military build-up announced. I can't see any of that changing unless Europe moves first on normalising Crimea.

It isn't impossible that there was an agreement but nothing in any of the stories seems to indicate anybody has any evidence or, more broadly, any idea how to create a vaguely plausible narrative.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:55 (two years ago) Permalink

I'm definitely sympathetic to the idea of wanting it to be true but the whole business of signal boosting hucksters like Adam Khan, HuffPo randos and a woman who thinks Putin arranged the Westminster terrorist attack should embarrass all concerned.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:00 (two years ago) Permalink

SV otm,

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:05 (two years ago) Permalink

Also, what should be incredibly obvious, but the main reason leftists like Greenwald are trying to downplay everything is because they played a key role all along. With the DNC leaks meant to harm with the Sanders wing, and the first Podesta emails including snippets of Goldman Sachs speeches, this was always obviously the Russians trying to create harm with the left, and would never have been so harmful if they hadn't taken the bait 100%.

Is this supposed to be the extent of Russian 'interference' in the US election?

My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:12 (two years ago) Permalink

Is there much evidence that these leaks led to a major loss of support for HRC from people who were planning to vote for her otherwise?

My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:28 (two years ago) Permalink

i have it on good authority that after just a few hundred more tweets about trump and russia, bernie will finally be president

― sleepingbag, Saturday, March 25, 2017 5:17 PM (fifty-four minutes ago)

this is a pretty pathetic post

k3vin k., Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:30 (two years ago) Permalink

trump owes shitloads to the russians. he scratches their backs, they continue scratching his by helping take down hillz. he's such a corrupt dunning-kruger silver spoon he doesn't realize he and his hangers on committed treason

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 25 March 2017 22:34 (two years ago) Permalink

thanks

I think it's going to be difficult to show active collusion [between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin] because people who study this say that the Russian government often works with groups that they have very arms-length relations with. It's unlikely these groups have an easily verifiable link either to the Kremlin or to the Trump team. It could also be that they really wanted to see Trump in office, so they did these things without active collusion.

otm, Russian intelligence isn't dumb enough to have actual FSB fingerprints on stuff; but the Trump camp folks are so dense who knows, I mean the Roger Stone -> Guccifer 2.0 twitter DM thing was pretty 0_o

Not the real Tombot (El Tomboto), Saturday, 25 March 2017 23:48 (two years ago) Permalink

it's nothing like Frederik's deranged fantasies

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 25 March 2017 23:53 (two years ago) Permalink

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/03/23/man-testified-trumps-campaign-chair-just-shot-dead/

Manchurian candidate LARP is a charitable way to put it!

the late great, Saturday, 25 March 2017 23:53 (two years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Sunday, 26 March 2017 00:01 (two years ago) Permalink

trump's dramatic arc calls for an ignominious fall. if russia doesn't do it some other criminal activity will have to be unearthed. it doesn't make aesthetic sense for him to just continue to lose popularity and sort of fade away after four years.

blame society (Treeship), Sunday, 26 March 2017 00:36 (two years ago) Permalink

The thing is that this is real life and not a movie. Actual results will either be wholly unsatisfactory or so batshit insane that no one will believe it's actually real.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Sunday, 26 March 2017 03:03 (two years ago) Permalink

batshit insanity seems to cling to trump like a bad aroma

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Sunday, 26 March 2017 03:04 (two years ago) Permalink

Like, the most likely scenarios I see panning out here are "Trump is an incurious moron who surrounded himself with compromised ninnies because they flattered home the most" or "Trump and Putin are secretly lovers planning to conquer the entire world through military action and trade shenanigans"

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Sunday, 26 March 2017 03:05 (two years ago) Permalink

imo, the explanation could be: trump is addicted to the idea of making deals that make him money. this is central to his self-image. business deals are only about one thing: making or losing money. Russia offered him deals that make him money. there is no connection in his mind between his running for president, his deals with russia, his making money, and his committing treason or felonies. they are wholly compartmentalized in different parts of his brain. and then there was the money, too.

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Sunday, 26 March 2017 03:19 (two years ago) Permalink

Dan's first scenario is almost exactly what I've been assuming for some time. Dan's second scenario is the plot of a series of self-published erotic novels I have coming out later this year.

Ambling Shambling Man (Old Lunch), Sunday, 26 March 2017 04:05 (two years ago) Permalink

kinda just wish the fucker would choke on a ham sandwich (DJT, not DJP)

Neanderthal, Sunday, 26 March 2017 04:32 (two years ago) Permalink

because even if there is an actual fire in this case, idk how much more of this ugly shit this country can take at this point....which isn't to say I don't think it should be pursued, but just that it's all so fatiguing

Neanderthal, Sunday, 26 March 2017 04:35 (two years ago) Permalink

I think it's something, just not the Manchurain Candidate LARP people want it to be.

otm

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 26 March 2017 05:04 (two years ago) Permalink

more to the point, not nothing, but also not something worth wasting precious effort on

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 26 March 2017 05:08 (two years ago) Permalink

imo, the explanation could be: trump is addicted to the idea of making deals that make him money. this is central to his self-image. business deals are only about one thing: making or losing money. Russia offered him deals that make him money. there is no connection in his mind between his running for president, his deals with russia, his making money, and his committing treason or felonies. they are wholly compartmentalized in different parts of his brain. and then there was the money, too.

I think the difficulty with this, and a lot of similar theories - like him 'owing money to Russia', is what we mean by 'Russia'. Is the Russian government offering him deals? Is he doing favours for non-government investors?

I think Trump is probably sceptical of sanctions and part of that scepticism could be motivated by self-interest, along with a broader idea that they are bad for business, but that scepticism seems to have been overridden by political reality and would fall a long way short of malfeasance on its own.

The wider trend of lumping everyone from Russians to Ukrainians, Azeris, Armenians, Russian-Armericans, Jewish Lithuanians who emigrated from the Soviet Union to the US aged seven, people who have business interests in Russia, people married to Russians, etc, as a suspicious monolith called 'Russia' is where it gets deep into what critics like Marsha Gessen are describing as a xenophobic conspiracy.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 26 March 2017 07:42 (two years ago) Permalink

'putin's sphere of influence'

j., Sunday, 26 March 2017 15:11 (two years ago) Permalink

the saddest insult to everyday americans in a loooooong looooooooooongg time is trump and his buddies were convinced they could get away with it :/

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 26 March 2017 16:36 (two years ago) Permalink

I suspect the gist of it is that Trump surrounded himself with cranks and shady business people who couldn't get a seat at the table with more mainstream Republicans. Some of them, like Flynn, are more than usually sympathetic to Russia - probably in Flynn's case because he was paid and taken seriously as a critic of the Obama government when nobody else was interested in him. Some, like Manafort and Cohen, don't have any particular political axe to grind but have found the region a useful place to make shady money.

I do t think there will be evidence of a quid-pro-quo. Partly because, if Russia did provide the emails to Wikileaks, there was enough animus there towards Clinton to have done it anyway, partly because there doesn't seem to be any change of direction in the relationship with Russia. The sanctions have been reconfirmed, the inviolability of Ukrainian sovereignty loudly proclaimed and plans for a vast US military build-up announced. I can't see any of that changing unless Europe moves first on normalising Crimea.

otm

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 26 March 2017 17:12 (two years ago) Permalink

lol @ "something"

Russia is going to be Trump's Benghazi

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 26 March 2017 20:22 (two years ago) Permalink

maybe in terms of fallout but probably not in terms of what, like, actually happened

Neanderthal, Sunday, 26 March 2017 20:54 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah there seems way way way more here than there was with Benghazi, and I'm not just saying that because I hate Donald Trump

frogbs, Monday, 27 March 2017 13:14 (two years ago) Permalink

his campaign advisor through the republican national convention had a $10,000,000 a year contract to advance russia's interests, from 2006 till Grover Norquist knows when. imagine the shoe on the other foot. moscowghazi hearings till the cows come home

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 27 March 2017 13:22 (two years ago) Permalink

the GOP called Obama "King Obama" for far lesser trangressions than Donald

Neanderthal, Monday, 27 March 2017 13:26 (two years ago) Permalink

they seem to be saying, people who believe above all in tax cuts for the rich are also epic hypocrites. it's not a good look, not that fox/koch nation gives a shit

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 27 March 2017 13:29 (two years ago) Permalink

Posted this on the main thread but worth a note:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/us/politics/senate-jared-kushner-russia.html?referer

Ned Raggett, Monday, 27 March 2017 13:31 (two years ago) Permalink

also didn't Roger Stone, who most biographies describe as Trump's closest advisor, straight up admit he was in contact with Russian hackers? isn't it weird how Stone, Guiliani, and every member of the Trump family (besides Tiffany, probably) knew exactly when the Wikileaks stuff was gonna start dropping?

frogbs, Monday, 27 March 2017 13:45 (two years ago) Permalink

it's only weird if you hate business and jesus and the constitution and success

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:01 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah there seems way way way more here than there was with Benghazi

100 times zero is still zero

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 27 March 2017 22:13 (two years ago) Permalink

what people? Rachel and the Maddows?

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 March 2019 14:36 (two months ago) Permalink

But the Democratic Party lacks the political guts to do it (even now tha they have a house majority) so instead people hoped for a legalistic/extra-political solution.

didn't we have a discussion like... two weeks ago about whether impeachment would be politically useful at all? guts have nothing to do with it

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 March 2019 14:40 (two months ago) Permalink

xp c'mon everybody was *hoping* for a legalistic-political solution...it might have been a pipe dream but even skeptics would have liked to see it happen

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:37 (two months ago) Permalink

^extra-political

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:37 (two months ago) Permalink

This backlash on the Russia stuff (when it is so obviously there!) is as bad if not worse than R's howling TOTAL EXONERATION

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:39 (two months ago) Permalink

"would have liked to see it happen" /= pinning one's hopes on a long shot.

I would like to marry Jake Gyllenhaal, but this doesn't mean I stop using OKCupid or dating.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:40 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah, post-election most dems could not envision surviving through a full term Trump Presidency so the idea that he should be arrested/impeached kind of got ahead of things like evidence-gathering and political practicality.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:41 (two months ago) Permalink

It's like on 9/11 when all the smug people said "are you surprised?"

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:41 (two months ago) Permalink

the sudden credulity around these parts for Mueller and the Feds by ppl shouting "Pigs!" the past two years is amusing

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:42 (two months ago) Permalink

it's the solarized version of Trump now heaping praise on an investigation that just a week ago was a phony and rigged

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:43 (two months ago) Permalink

So itt now the "TITTWIS how right I was and how wrong u were"

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:44 (two months ago) Permalink

Alfred I totally think Jake Gyllenhal remains in your wheelhouse

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:45 (two months ago) Permalink

As I've said before, impeachments are, if anything, much more political than elections because an impeachment intends to undo the results of an election. Voters are generally angry at politicians all the time, but they get particularly livid when politicians attempt to override their (rather meager) prerogative of selecting their own overlord.

Unless and until a large chunk of Trump voters begin to feel he is a danger to the nation, the Democrats should be very nervous about impeachment. They have to build a case that convinces the country, not just Democrats, otherwise they will bring down voter wrath upon themselves. Mueller also seems to have felt his case needed to be absolutely clear cut, but unless we see the whole case he built, we'll never know how strong it was.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:48 (two months ago) Permalink

Alfred I totally think Jake Gyllenhal remains in your wheelhouse

― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, March 28, 2019

https://media.giphy.com/media/4XvDy9HmgPmUM/giphy.gif

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 March 2019 15:52 (two months ago) Permalink

I would like to marry Jake Gyllenhaal, but this doesn't mean I stop using OKCupid or dating.

that's exactly what it means for me

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 28 March 2019 16:09 (two months ago) Permalink

Maybe he's poly

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Thursday, 28 March 2019 16:10 (two months ago) Permalink

In any case, it’s clear we are in the midst of a massive bum’s rush spearheaded by what should be the notorious Barr letter. I explained some of what seem to me the details here. Others here at TPM and elsewhere have too. We have a letter written by an AG specifically appointed to clean up if not cover up the Mueller findings. It gives the President a clean bill of health based on a narrow claim that there was insufficient evidence to establish a crime in the Trump campaign’s dealings with Russia. Because of this, per Barr’s argument, the idea that Trump could have obstructed Justice in the course of his cover-up was all but a legal impossibility.

This was the kick off for an ongoing campaign not only to claim “complete exoneration” as the President and his supporters insist but to further insist that the whole investigation and scandal was a hoax and the product of lies. This leads to demands for members of Congress to resign and Trump’s campaign going so far as to demand that Trump’s critics no longer be allowed on the public airwaves. Mitch McConnell, perhaps the craftiest and most cynical man ever to head up the US Senate (think about that for a second), says the Mueller Report proves President Obama didn’t do enough to protect the country from Russian subversion.

In other words, the Mueller Report is a game-changing blockbuster of such gravity that we will apparently never be allowed to see it in any other than a few dozen carefully chosen words or further summaries. To date, if you look closely, we’ve seen maybe two or three dozen words of it, out of a document that reports suggest is voluminous. This whole show is such an immense pile of bullshit it really beggars the imagination.

That Barr and Trump would go this route is hardly surprising. And no I don’t expect Schiff or others will be run out of Congress. But let’s see clearly what the angle here is. Use this period between the Barr letter and whatever portions of the actual report emerge to sufficiently cow the press, the public and the opposition party out of ever mentioning the story again and – just as important – aggressively reporting on all the other instances of presidential and administration corruption.

The big league players at the Times, the Post and other marquee publications have gone along with this to a surprising and yet frankly not terribly surprising degree. This seems to be maybe changing a bit as the days wear by. But honestly, I’ve seen enough over a long enough time, that the ‘analyst’ voices at these publications, as opposed to the reporters, will almost always, and certainly at first, give way to conventional wisdom, power and the desire (perhaps not even entirely consciously) to score points with bad faith actors. “The darkest, most ominous cloud hanging over his presidency was all but lifted on Sunday with the release of the special counsel’s conclusions … The end of Mr. Mueller’s inquiry also left Democrats on the defensive and will force them to decide how vigorously to continue pursuing allegations of misconduct by the president and his allies.”

In so many words, we don’t know anything until we see this report. And anyone who doesn’t see that is a chump or a fool. I actually have a relative confidence that we will see the Mueller Report. It’s possible parts do need to be restricted for national security reasons. But anything that falls into that category, which should be very small, should of course be fully available to Congress. I don’t think it will be possible to keep this fully under wraps. The point is more to create a new set of realities – press-cowing, false storylines, room for more bad-acting – in the interval in which we are supposed to make our judgments based on Barr’s letter and when we actually see the thing.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/thanks-and-no-thanks

Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:10 (two months ago) Permalink

y u p

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:17 (two months ago) Permalink

also on TPM, some useful thoughts from a fed prosecutor, trying to read the tea leaves on what's actually in the mueller report:

3. The non-charging decision on obstruction by Mueller cannot be explained as a failure of evidence. On conspiracy or coordination, it appears Mueller made a clear decision not to charge because of a lack of evidence. As too many members of the media seem to get wrong, this was not a “no evidence” situation, but rather a failure to get to the required level of admissible evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. And the level of proof had to be something in between probable cause (you can’t get 500 search warrants without it) and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no problem with that decision from a prosecutorial discretion standpoint. There was lots of evidence of an underlying conspiracy, but it was always going to be very difficult to prove the President’s direct involvement with sufficient admissible evidence (classified intercepts from foreign governments won’t do it). And Manafort and Stone holding the line seems to have been the stopped the Mueller team short. Mueller made a decision not to charge conspiracy because of a lack of evidence, so why not obstruction? If it’s a 50-50 call and a pure “jump ball” that’s easy. You decline. If it’s “more likely than not,” the civil standard, you also decline. Even if it’s “clear and convincing” evidence that doesn’t rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you decline the case. So what is going on here? To me, the only answer is that they had a chargeable obstruction case but stopped short of making a decision to charge the President–because he’s the President. It could have been the policy not to indict a sitting President, it could have been the legal and policy arguments around executive authority, or it could have been out of deference to the legislative branch and its impeachment prerogatives. Any way you cut it, I just can’t see Mueller shying away from a tough evidentiary call. If we ever get to see it, I fully expect the actual Mueller report to contain a devastating case against the President for obstruction of justice. This is why we should expect to see Barr, the White House, and the Republicans in Congress fight like hell to keep as much of the report as possible away from the public and House Judiciary. Democrats cannot let this go.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:19 (two months ago) Permalink

wrong link there Karl

Simon H., Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:20 (two months ago) Permalink

oopsy daisy, thanks: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-barr-gambit

Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:21 (two months ago) Permalink

so apparently the mueller report is over 300 pages long

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/us/politics/mueller-report-length.html

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 29 March 2019 01:38 (two months ago) Permalink

well, after all this time I’d hope so

k3vin k., Friday, 29 March 2019 02:31 (two months ago) Permalink

the kenneth star report was 500+

Karl Malone, Friday, 29 March 2019 02:32 (two months ago) Permalink

double spaced at 1.1, margins .8 inches on the sides

Karl Malone, Friday, 29 March 2019 02:33 (two months ago) Permalink

Bett er be 12 pt times new roman one inch margins single spaced!

alomar lines, Friday, 29 March 2019 03:06 (two months ago) Permalink

Michael Tracey
‏@mtracey

I'll be going on @SamSeder at approximately 1:20pm EST to explain why Marcy Wheeler, aka @emptywheel, is the Judith Miller of the Trump/Russia saga -- except her ethical violations were much more egregious, damaging, and extreme. Tune in!

I didn't hear this yet, but my wife says Sam was screaming at him.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 29 March 2019 18:10 (two months ago) Permalink

Monica Lewinsky reminds me a little of Lorelei Gilmore now.

Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 18:11 (two months ago) Permalink

Lol: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/04/russiagate-glenn-greenwald-matt-taibbi-denial/

The problem with counting on the criminal justice system to save us from Trump is that the entire system is rigged. In theory, the attorney general is supposed to operate independent of the president. In practice, everyone knows that William Barr was handpicked by a president who has sought to impede the Russia investigation, that Barr took office openly skeptical of Mueller’s efforts, that he has participated in high-level cover-ups before, and that he was confirmed on a party-line vote by a Republican Senate that has every incentive to make this story go away. Mueller’s job was to submit a report to Barr, and so far Barr has made no move to reveal more than a brief summary of the 300-page report’s contents to the public. While it’s true that Mueller has issued 37 indictments, including of six people close to the president, Trump himself is effectively immune from prosecution. Once again, the most powerful people are beyond the rule of law.

None of this should be surprising to anyone who has read With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful, by the Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist Glenn Greenwald. The 2011 book, which features glowing cover blurbs from MSNBC anchors Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes, persuasively lays out the case that the wealthy and politically connected operate with legal impunity. “Those with political and financial clout are routinely allowed to break the law with no legal repercussions whatsoever,” Greenwald writes in his introduction. “Often they need not exploit their access to superior lawyers because they don’t see the inside of a courtroom in the first place—not even when they get caught in the most egregious criminality.”

Frederik B, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:37 (two months ago) Permalink

Sam Seder the comedian?

moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:38 (two months ago) Permalink

Mother Jones has been a joke for years

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Sam Seder the comedian?

I don't know if he still does comedy anywhere, but he's been a full-time left-wing broadcaster for 15 years

blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:51 (two months ago) Permalink

That Klion piece is embarrassing.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 20:08 (two months ago) Permalink

The pro-Mueller ralliers in Times Square have distributed this songbook. They are currently leading a mass singalong. Please read these lyrics pic.twitter.com/1y36LDFeEg

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) April 4, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 April 2019 00:13 (two months ago) Permalink

Needs work. And if you're going to go with Blondie - "Show Me"?

How about "Once I had a prez, and he was so crass; soon turned out that he was an ass."

That's without even thinking too hard.

Gunther Gleiben (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 5 April 2019 12:25 (two months ago) Permalink

I See a Vlad Moon Rising

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 5 April 2019 12:32 (two months ago) Permalink

this is your brain on MSNBC

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 April 2019 14:16 (two months ago) Permalink

Are there a lot of posters on here slavishly watching MSNBC and hanging on Rachel Maddow's every word? I kind of doubt it.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 5 April 2019 14:39 (two months ago) Permalink

i'm talking about the pod ppl who wrote those song parodies, Mood, don't be so defensive.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 April 2019 14:47 (two months ago) Permalink

Fair enough

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 5 April 2019 14:53 (two months ago) Permalink

“Pro-mueller ralliers” jesus

Trϵϵship, Friday, 5 April 2019 15:00 (two months ago) Permalink

The march was called 'Release the Mueller Report' and calling it a 'pro-Mueller' rally is Tracey's own spin on it, if anyone was in doubt. That guy is such a shithead.

Frederik B, Friday, 5 April 2019 15:24 (two months ago) Permalink

...

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 April 2019 15:33 (two months ago) Permalink

It should be leaked at this point. Its getting ridiculous

Trϵϵship, Friday, 5 April 2019 15:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Leaking the full Mueller report would require it to have a wide enough circulation within the administration that it would not be easy to identify the leaker. Both Mueller and Attorney General Barr are old hands in Washington DC and would understand this principle in their very bones. Beyond Mueller, Barr and Rosenstein, it is nearly impossible to know who has see the whole thing, but I would guess it's an extremely short list. Even the investigators from the Special Counsel's Office who worked on the report are unlikely to have a full and complete copy of it.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 5 April 2019 17:49 (two months ago) Permalink

Mueller should send me a pdf. I won’t tell anyone.

Trϵϵship, Friday, 5 April 2019 18:30 (two months ago) Permalink

im sure assange can get a hold of this

Hunt3r, Friday, 5 April 2019 18:33 (two months ago) Permalink

Mueller, yousendit?

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 5 April 2019 18:40 (two months ago) Permalink

I've read the report. It's OK. 4/5.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 April 2019 18:43 (two months ago) Permalink


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