rolling explaining conservatism

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taxes are theft; therefore, democrats are criminals

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:58 (three years ago) link

selfishness is too a virtue

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:59 (three years ago) link

Making people's lives better is not a function of the state. The state's job is to get out of the way so the market can make people's lives better*.

*or not

scattered, smothered, covered, diced and chunked (WilliamC), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:00 (three years ago) link

wasn't it Jeremy Clarkson that said something once like "governments should build park benches and leave us alone"

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:03 (three years ago) link

if your parents don't have enough money, nothing you do matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:11 (three years ago) link

job security is a necessary evil to coerce the talented

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:29 (three years ago) link

if you weren't forced to pay taxes, you could just afford things on your own like insurance and private police protection

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:31 (three years ago) link

in my very amateurish opinion modern conservativism has two major planks:

1) denial of any link between capitalism and the undermining of traditional values.
2) strict and explicit separation of society into categories of, let's say, "elect" and "damned" (those deserving of privilege, security, etc. and those undeserving...white supremacy is obviously a huge part of this)

ryan, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:40 (three years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege. The hatefulness and nastiness that seems to travel with it has always been there, but obviously people have had different expectations throughout history about what's uncouth and which are the parts you aren't supposed to say out loud.

Scalzi's essay is a tad goofy but I liked his nerdy explanation of privilege: "In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is."

Any policies that increase egalitarianism in Western societies, by necessity, can be seen as mildly increasing the difficulty setting for Straight White Male. If you're not doing so great at The Real World, and you were already on the lowest difficulty setting, then something's clearly very wrong.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:42 (three years ago) link

life is a golf course. climate change is a chinese hoax

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:46 (three years ago) link

life is a golf ball, I wanna drive it all night long

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:48 (three years ago) link

russian=socialists are the worst ever evil in the world, except when republican president donald trump houses and praises them. government is the problem, as well

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:54 (three years ago) link

states' rights except when not

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:55 (three years ago) link

I'd love to see Scalzi recite his essay to the corpse of a drug overdosed white person whose lost all realistic hope for his/her life. Americans don't know each other anymore.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:56 (three years ago) link

that is not in his individual self-interest. individual self-interest is all that matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:02 (three years ago) link

regulation gets in the way of businesses succeeding and makes capitalism not work. we shouldn't regulate wrongdoing out of existence - the market will react and put evildoing companies out of business. it's ok if 371 people die due to eating salmonella infected peanuts because AFTER those people die, people will boycott the brand!

We could have stopped those people from dying but that would have hurt Planters' sales and really when it boils down to it, aren't 371 lives worth it?

also the Holocaust never happened.

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:04 (three years ago) link

People want the government to be run like a business, so that after a few years they can be surprised by a FOR LEASE sign on City Hall, and no idea what it might turn into next.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (three years ago) link

Maybe it will be a new coffee place, or a hair salon!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (three years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:20 (three years ago) link

except for the four gospels, the judeo-christian bible is the literal word of god, bro

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:24 (three years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:20 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ignoring suffering because of classism and identity politics is part of why we're here. People like you have blood on your hands... POC die because of attitudes like yours, which, on the surface, tries to celebrate them. But it's not out of concern for the lives of POC, but for your own narcissism and privilege, which you then flip on others less fortunate than yourself.

Liberalism and conservatism is the same side of the same coin at this point. Is it any wonder why we are where we are?

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:36 (three years ago) link

what would we do without you, larry

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:37 (three years ago) link

have you heard of this guy, jim goad? I think his books would grab you

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:38 (three years ago) link

Well, there was a reason I worked with an Obama appointee, you low-level bureaucratic waste. My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (three years ago) link

The funniest part of your schtick is that everything I've posted to this thread is either me actually linking to and quoting John Scalzi and the rest is ripped off from Ta-Nehisi Coates - I haven't expressed a single original opinion worth lashing out at. But you man, you got the solutions that make sense, and work!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (three years ago) link

beef is when I see you
guaranteed to be in ICU

but you won't have healthcare

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (three years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege.

fucking otm. all hoarding and no empathy. fuck you, got mine. what's that, an oppressed category of people wants equal treatment? get the fuck off my lawn. if you need quotas, that just means you females/non-whites/whatever are simply terrible at what you do. let the free market do its job because the free market is faultless*.

* at preserving old-timey privilege

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:45 (three years ago) link

this is the angriest i've ever been this early in a thread

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:46 (three years ago) link

anger is an energy. it's cool to frack oklahoma into earthquake hell, because profit

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:52 (three years ago) link

the united states is a republic, not a democracy

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:10 (three years ago) link

That one I've honestly never been able to figure out. It's a non sequitur beyond the rest

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:13 (three years ago) link

Democrats fancy themselves civil rights pioneers but it was REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves we are just like that 19th century party

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:18 (three years ago) link

as Martin Luther King famously said, people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character

example (crüt), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:19 (three years ago) link

and MLK was a Republican after all!

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:21 (three years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

― larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Moonlight swine leap whiff off this one

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:25 (three years ago) link

which ideology is against water fluoridation now?

sarahell, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:39 (three years ago) link

fluoridation is how the govmint gives you gay mind control cancer, keep up

Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:53 (three years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

posts that effortlessly etc

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:43 (three years ago) link

maybe start a thread for recommending a good wine to accompany people suffering and dying

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:45 (three years ago) link

Egoism is real, altruism is not. Hence, running a state by egoists’ rules - “like a business,” if you will - is the only sensible option. If the state then falls apart, it’s not because a democracy is inherently altruistic, but because the state is broken and needs to be abolished.

Wes Brodicus, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:50 (three years ago) link

Right, the only motivating factor you can count on is that everyone wants to get rich. EVERYONE. We all like money right guys? Also, everyone cheats, come on.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:55 (three years ago) link

who among us would not rather have the opportunity, however small, to live beyond the dreams of Croesus rather than to bumble along with our needs generally satisfied but no prospect of rubbing anybody else's nose in it?

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:20 (three years ago) link

tucking your shirt into your jeans is a timeless look

ogmor, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:29 (three years ago) link

brb I'm off to find a conservative board with a thread explaining liberals and the staggering insights therein

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:46 (three years ago) link

Bow-ties are a legitimate fashion choice

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:47 (three years ago) link

MANY YEARS AGO PRINCE DARKNESS "GANNON" STOLE ONE OF THE TRIFORCE WITH POWER.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:05 (three years ago) link

That does explain a lot. And the triforce of wisdom being in eight pieces is why the left is so hopeless.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:15 (three years ago) link

lol @ larry appleton / Tombot guvmint dill-weed beef

have you guys ever considered that conservatism has ideological appeal to its adherents, rather than something dismissive like "the rationalization and preservation of privilege" (what about the millions of non-privileged people who are conservatives? don't say false consciousness!) or "individual self-interest is all that matters"?

flopson, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:38 (three years ago) link

I considered, then dismissed it.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:43 (three years ago) link

Most problems can be pretty easily explained through racism and false consciousness.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:45 (three years ago) link

Like most of the EMTs I've met and who my husband works with are Black and brown folks who dislike cops and are huge advocates for patients, but that might be because I live in a majority-minority city where hospital workers stage walkouts for racial justice and whatnot.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 4 September 2020 15:26 (two months ago) link

Fine, I shouldn’t have said EMTs. My friend’s experience is not representative of the entire profession.

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Friday, 4 September 2020 15:26 (two months ago) link

When my husband did a FEMA tour in Florida after a hurricane a few years back, he ran into some of the types yr talking about. But for the most part, he's had pretty decent experiences with his co-workers.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 4 September 2020 15:27 (two months ago) link

But aside from some notable whacker types, a lot of EMTs are smart people who are trying to do good and get paid marginally well for the work they do.

Like David Lee Roth

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/pXzE1Fmq-SI/hqdefault.jpg

tater totalitarian (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 4 September 2020 15:37 (two months ago) link

Yeah I think EMTs are the exception to the first responder toxic stew--iirc most of them can't even live off what they make on the job and hold down a 2nd job as well. That's nuts.

Also the first EMTs were the Freedom House Ambulance Service of Philadelphia!

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, 4 September 2020 22:21 (two months ago) link

anecdotes are annoying but my ex-wife who worked in housing hated EMTs because they would bitch at people they were giving naloxone to and call them junkies etc. when they were called to the building she ran

rascal clobber (jim in vancouver), Friday, 4 September 2020 22:42 (two months ago) link

Like also-underpaid teachers EMTs don't seem any less likely to be reactionary assholes about various things IME.

The first people I saw sharing the "OH BURGER FLIPPERS WANT $15 AN HOUR HUH" memes were EMTs.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 4 September 2020 22:44 (two months ago) link

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/pXzE1Fmq-SI/hqdefault.jpg

Somebody get me a doctor
You better call up the ambulance, I'm deep in shock
Overloaded, baby, I can hardly walk
Somebody get me a doctor
Somebody get me a doctor
Feelin' over fine
And I'm speedin' down that line

Neanderthal, Friday, 4 September 2020 22:52 (two months ago) link

milo, do you have any sort of positive views on anything? were you born in a petri dish from Thomas Ligotti's sperm?

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 4 September 2020 23:12 (two months ago) link

It would be silly to pretend that EMTs were all perfect specimens just to keep poz vibes only, wouldn't it?

EMTs are under the same pressures as anyone else that obstruct them from feeling solidarity with the burger flippers and have the same issues as other first responders that might push them toward viewing the "junkies" they deal with as one more hassle to deal with rather than troubled people.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 4 September 2020 23:20 (two months ago) link

It would be silly to pretend that EMTs were all perfect specimens just to keep poz vibes only, wouldn't it?

but what if we went ahead and did it anyway

Karl Malone, Friday, 4 September 2020 23:40 (two months ago) link

I hear it's easy to imagine, if you try.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Friday, 4 September 2020 23:49 (two months ago) link

Fucking christ, milo, give it a goddamn rest already.

Don't be such an idot. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:16 (two months ago) link

The absolute nerve to make one post!

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:36 (two months ago) link

one, lol

I can hear the scampi beating as one (WmC), Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:37 (two months ago) link

525,600 shitposts
525,000 FPs so dear

Neanderthal, Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:45 (two months ago) link

Milo, you ascribe biases and stereotypes willy-nilly, and then utilize them to damn populations or buoy them based on loose ideological strictures.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:51 (two months ago) link

I didn't damn any population. "No less likely" is not damning.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 5 September 2020 00:53 (two months ago) link

milo is no less likely than a spread pair of ass cheeks to spray diarrhea all over this thread.

Don't be such an idot. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:08 (two months ago) link

Give me a break.

There's a reason you've used burger flippers twice in this recent conversation, but I'm not sure why. Do you believe burger flippers can be awful humans, too? What about junkies? Would you talk massive shit about them?

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:12 (two months ago) link

why do people think burgers flip

Neanderthal, Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:13 (two months ago) link

There's a reason you've used burger flippers twice in this recent conversation

Because that's the language that was used in the memes about who deserves a better wage.
https://kfor.com/news/paramedics-response-to-burger-flippers-making-15hr-goes-viral/

But I didn't 'talk shit' about EMTs so I don't know what you're on about.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:16 (two months ago) link

A working class job is the only place I ever heard coworkers openly endorse the KKK. Perhaps their souls could've been saved if they'd been flipping burgers rather than stocking shelves.

Don't be such an idot. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:20 (two months ago) link

How do a killfile someone again?

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Saturday, 5 September 2020 01:20 (two months ago) link

"kayfabe," in other words?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/predicate-fear/616009/

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 5 September 2020 13:10 (two months ago) link

Conservatism is a form of modern aristocracy, and nobody would ask 'What would the King do that could make him lose your support?", just as no one would ask such questions of a bear. This isn't a language of logic, but it's not one of emotion either, it's a language of power.

anvil, Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:06 (two months ago) link

There may be an element of fear in that, what if the dogs gets loose? But I don't think fear is a primary factor

anvil, Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:09 (two months ago) link

"Conservatism is a form of modern aristocracy"---a lot rides on "a form" here! Classical aristocrats placed a great deal on "honor", which consisted chiefly in the capacity/privilege to lose one's life in the defense of others/a way of life. By contrast the modern "bourgeoisie" opposed the classical aristocrats and sought to replace the honor ethic with a more individualized ethic, something of the old Stoic point of view that we can only be responsable to what we have under our control. So I saw this weeks' revelation about the current USA president to be a typically ham-handed articulation of the bourgeoise ethic, unsurprising since that is his class.

Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:37 (two months ago) link

"One thing I’ve learned about Trump and about the country is that Trump has always exploited honor systems. He’s always looked for places where people obey the law not because they have to but because it’s seen as the right thing to do. They don’t want to go against social convention, and so they follow the rules—but when you break the law, it’s not like a cop steps out from behind a pillar and arrests you. He takes advantage of that. When he finds a place where there’s an honor system, he exploits it. He does what the honor system doesn’t expect. And he often gets a huge advantage out of that. He did that in his business often. He did it at his charity—he didn’t follow charity rules, and he took advantage of the fact that the charity system takes a long time to catch up with you if you do that."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/trump-organization-legal-troubles-investigations.html

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:57 (two months ago) link

has anyone interviewed corey robin recently

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:04 (two months ago) link

xp Nice find! Yes, the bourgeois ethic has no place for honor in any classical sense.

To say that both the aristocrat and the bourgeois seek power misses that they seek different kinds of power, and neither sees the other's kind of power very well; or more importantly, neither understands the draw of the other's kind of power very well.

The bulk of the right wing in the USA today does not seek a return to aristocracy, to which they could never belong. In the current USA president they have a leader who suits their understanding of power.

Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:09 (two months ago) link

The bulk of the right wing in the USA today does not seek a return to aristocracy, to which they could never belong.

I wasn't referring to the aristocrats themselves here. The vast majority of the people who supported the King weren't aristocrats either and could never hope to be so. Nevertheless, they supported aristocracy

anvil, Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:28 (two months ago) link

In 1789 the bourgeoisie were the origin of the revolution.

Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:31 (two months ago) link

Thats right! The peasants however...

anvil, Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:41 (two months ago) link

porquenolosdos.gif

pomenitul, Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:43 (two months ago) link

The peasants in neither 1789 nor during the Restoration were predominantly monarchists. They mostly wanted to be left alone, aspiring to join the bourgeoisie.

My point (which obviously may be in error) is that "USA conservatism" should neither be identified with aristocracy nor with the bourgeoisie. Considerable portions of the USA Black and Latinx communities are conservative in the bourgeois sense but not the aristocratic sense. White supremacy is an expression of aristocracy by contrast.

Joey Corona (Euler), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:51 (two months ago) link

I think I see where you are coming from now, I agree that white supremacy is an expression of aristocracy, but think that that form of Conservatism is the dominant one in the US. The US not being changed by industralization the way much of Europe was

anvil, Saturday, 5 September 2020 16:22 (two months ago) link

conservatives are definitely like Aristocrats, if we're talking about the old school comedian joke

Neanderthal, Saturday, 5 September 2020 16:33 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

https://i.redd.it/75rvp8r93zt51.jpg

Think about it. Absolutely harrowing.

pomenitul, Monday, 19 October 2020 13:07 (one month ago) link

so..... close..... to getting it

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 October 2020 13:09 (one month ago) link

Is oxygen a human right? Skin? Molecules? Think about what kind of communist dystopia that world would be.

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Monday, 19 October 2020 13:10 (one month ago) link

'Everything belongs to me and maybe some of it can also belong to people who look like me if they're gross in the same way that I'm gross' in a nutshell.

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Monday, 19 October 2020 13:12 (one month ago) link

^^^ missing a few American flag emojis imo.

pomenitul, Monday, 19 October 2020 13:16 (one month ago) link

Imagine looking at Giuliani and thinking 'the world is a meritocracy'.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 19:51 (one month ago) link

i think those people expand their view of meritocracy to include "wheeling and dealing and cheating, if necessary"

president of my cat (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 19:52 (one month ago) link

'Might makes right.'

— Jesus of Nazareth

pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 19:54 (one month ago) link

Wait, does 'meritocracy' not mean 'a system wherein individuals succeed based on how likely they are to unsolicitedly fondle themselves at the drop of a hat'? I really need a new dictionary.

OrificeMax (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 21 October 2020 19:59 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

Really tho, it all boils down to I Love Power.

pomenitul, Sunday, 22 November 2020 03:22 (two days ago) link

Modern conservatism in two tweets pic.twitter.com/b2HOh8c50C

— Farmer Jones (@thefarmerjones) November 22, 2020

mookieproof, Sunday, 22 November 2020 03:47 (two days ago) link

I think christianity or america could be replaced with other things for some other context and the conservatism would still shine through as would the general sentiment. not so sure you could do that with the phallic stuff which seems more essential to right wing thinking/feeling

so it’s a love and/or worship of power but only a specifically normative sort of power represented in specifically normative sorts of ways. the dick becomes an amazingly powerful & versatile symbol as used by the right in this context

Left, Sunday, 22 November 2020 10:52 (two days ago) link


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