rolling explaining conservatism

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taxes are theft; therefore, democrats are criminals

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:58 (two years ago) link

selfishness is too a virtue

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:59 (two years ago) link

Making people's lives better is not a function of the state. The state's job is to get out of the way so the market can make people's lives better*.

*or not

scattered, smothered, covered, diced and chunked (WilliamC), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:00 (two years ago) link

wasn't it Jeremy Clarkson that said something once like "governments should build park benches and leave us alone"

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:03 (two years ago) link

if your parents don't have enough money, nothing you do matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:11 (two years ago) link

job security is a necessary evil to coerce the talented

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:29 (two years ago) link

if you weren't forced to pay taxes, you could just afford things on your own like insurance and private police protection

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:31 (two years ago) link

in my very amateurish opinion modern conservativism has two major planks:

1) denial of any link between capitalism and the undermining of traditional values.
2) strict and explicit separation of society into categories of, let's say, "elect" and "damned" (those deserving of privilege, security, etc. and those undeserving...white supremacy is obviously a huge part of this)

ryan, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:40 (two years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege. The hatefulness and nastiness that seems to travel with it has always been there, but obviously people have had different expectations throughout history about what's uncouth and which are the parts you aren't supposed to say out loud.

Scalzi's essay is a tad goofy but I liked his nerdy explanation of privilege: "In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is."

Any policies that increase egalitarianism in Western societies, by necessity, can be seen as mildly increasing the difficulty setting for Straight White Male. If you're not doing so great at The Real World, and you were already on the lowest difficulty setting, then something's clearly very wrong.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:42 (two years ago) link

life is a golf course. climate change is a chinese hoax

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:46 (two years ago) link

life is a golf ball, I wanna drive it all night long

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:48 (two years ago) link

russian=socialists are the worst ever evil in the world, except when republican president donald trump houses and praises them. government is the problem, as well

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:54 (two years ago) link

states' rights except when not

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:55 (two years ago) link

I'd love to see Scalzi recite his essay to the corpse of a drug overdosed white person whose lost all realistic hope for his/her life. Americans don't know each other anymore.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:56 (two years ago) link

that is not in his individual self-interest. individual self-interest is all that matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:02 (two years ago) link

regulation gets in the way of businesses succeeding and makes capitalism not work. we shouldn't regulate wrongdoing out of existence - the market will react and put evildoing companies out of business. it's ok if 371 people die due to eating salmonella infected peanuts because AFTER those people die, people will boycott the brand!

We could have stopped those people from dying but that would have hurt Planters' sales and really when it boils down to it, aren't 371 lives worth it?

also the Holocaust never happened.

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:04 (two years ago) link

People want the government to be run like a business, so that after a few years they can be surprised by a FOR LEASE sign on City Hall, and no idea what it might turn into next.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (two years ago) link

Maybe it will be a new coffee place, or a hair salon!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (two years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:20 (two years ago) link

except for the four gospels, the judeo-christian bible is the literal word of god, bro

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:24 (two years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:20 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ignoring suffering because of classism and identity politics is part of why we're here. People like you have blood on your hands... POC die because of attitudes like yours, which, on the surface, tries to celebrate them. But it's not out of concern for the lives of POC, but for your own narcissism and privilege, which you then flip on others less fortunate than yourself.

Liberalism and conservatism is the same side of the same coin at this point. Is it any wonder why we are where we are?

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:36 (two years ago) link

what would we do without you, larry

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:37 (two years ago) link

have you heard of this guy, jim goad? I think his books would grab you

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:38 (two years ago) link

Well, there was a reason I worked with an Obama appointee, you low-level bureaucratic waste. My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (two years ago) link

The funniest part of your schtick is that everything I've posted to this thread is either me actually linking to and quoting John Scalzi and the rest is ripped off from Ta-Nehisi Coates - I haven't expressed a single original opinion worth lashing out at. But you man, you got the solutions that make sense, and work!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (two years ago) link

beef is when I see you
guaranteed to be in ICU

but you won't have healthcare

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (two years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege.

fucking otm. all hoarding and no empathy. fuck you, got mine. what's that, an oppressed category of people wants equal treatment? get the fuck off my lawn. if you need quotas, that just means you females/non-whites/whatever are simply terrible at what you do. let the free market do its job because the free market is faultless*.

* at preserving old-timey privilege

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:45 (two years ago) link

this is the angriest i've ever been this early in a thread

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:46 (two years ago) link

anger is an energy. it's cool to frack oklahoma into earthquake hell, because profit

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:52 (two years ago) link

the united states is a republic, not a democracy

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:10 (two years ago) link

That one I've honestly never been able to figure out. It's a non sequitur beyond the rest

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:13 (two years ago) link

Democrats fancy themselves civil rights pioneers but it was REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves we are just like that 19th century party

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:18 (two years ago) link

as Martin Luther King famously said, people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character

example (crüt), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:19 (two years ago) link

and MLK was a Republican after all!

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:21 (two years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

― larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Moonlight swine leap whiff off this one

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:25 (two years ago) link

which ideology is against water fluoridation now?

sarahell, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:39 (two years ago) link

fluoridation is how the govmint gives you gay mind control cancer, keep up

Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:53 (two years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

posts that effortlessly etc

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:43 (two years ago) link

maybe start a thread for recommending a good wine to accompany people suffering and dying

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:45 (two years ago) link

Egoism is real, altruism is not. Hence, running a state by egoists’ rules - “like a business,” if you will - is the only sensible option. If the state then falls apart, it’s not because a democracy is inherently altruistic, but because the state is broken and needs to be abolished.

Wes Brodicus, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:50 (two years ago) link

Right, the only motivating factor you can count on is that everyone wants to get rich. EVERYONE. We all like money right guys? Also, everyone cheats, come on.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:55 (two years ago) link

who among us would not rather have the opportunity, however small, to live beyond the dreams of Croesus rather than to bumble along with our needs generally satisfied but no prospect of rubbing anybody else's nose in it?

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:20 (two years ago) link

tucking your shirt into your jeans is a timeless look

ogmor, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:29 (two years ago) link

brb I'm off to find a conservative board with a thread explaining liberals and the staggering insights therein

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:46 (two years ago) link

Bow-ties are a legitimate fashion choice

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:47 (two years ago) link

MANY YEARS AGO PRINCE DARKNESS "GANNON" STOLE ONE OF THE TRIFORCE WITH POWER.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:05 (two years ago) link

That does explain a lot. And the triforce of wisdom being in eight pieces is why the left is so hopeless.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:15 (two years ago) link

lol @ larry appleton / Tombot guvmint dill-weed beef

have you guys ever considered that conservatism has ideological appeal to its adherents, rather than something dismissive like "the rationalization and preservation of privilege" (what about the millions of non-privileged people who are conservatives? don't say false consciousness!) or "individual self-interest is all that matters"?

flopson, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:38 (two years ago) link

I considered, then dismissed it.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:43 (two years ago) link

Most problems can be pretty easily explained through racism and false consciousness.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:45 (two years ago) link

oh no i meant the handgun thing

21st savagery fox (m bison), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 12:38 (seven months ago) link

Oh sorry, they refer to a 2013 study by Dan Kahan, who

asked 1,110 people a question about how effective a skin cream was in reducing a rash. The question required some simple mathematics to solve. Unsurprisingly, the most numerate were most likely to solve the problem correctly [the skin cream worsens the rash]. Then Mr Kahan gave the group the question in a politicised form, asking how effective banning handguns was in reducing crime (the underlying mathematics was the same). This time, the most numerate people did not necessarily get the right answer. Rather, Republicans who were good at maths were more likely to conclude that banning guns was ineffective, whereas Democrats said the opposite.

Here's a longer article about the study: https://grist.org/politics/science-confirms-politics-wrecks-your-ability-to-do-math/

pomenitul, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 12:48 (seven months ago) link

incoming strong take alert

The Stigma Against My Conservative Politics Is Worse Than The Stigma Of Being Gay

But just as I did not choose to be gay, I did not choose to be conservative. My political evolution happened over time as I came to realize that I valued truth and reason over narrative and emotion. I became an outspoken voice on the right because I felt I had no other choice than to speak up and shout the truth, despite overwhelming pressure from the media.

The left has become empowered to actively stamp out our voices. Not just that, but they feel fully justified in doing so. But just as I realized at 16 with my sexuality, I embrace today with my political worldview: I can no more deny what I know to be objective truth than I could deny my feelings about my own sexuality then.

fans annoyed as emily atack screams over nick knowles' kumquat (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 14:29 (seven months ago) link

lolz

pomenitul, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 14:36 (seven months ago) link

I'm very curious to hear what he calls 'truth and reason'. His entire piece consists of generalizations.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 14:37 (seven months ago) link

a conservative with shoddy reasoning???????

maura, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 15:30 (seven months ago) link

I guess it's probably true that sociopathy isn't really a choice.

We don't like hearing stories of a melted thermos. (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 15:37 (seven months ago) link

Then Mr Kahan gave the group the question in a politicised form, asking how effective banning handguns was in reducing crime (the underlying mathematics was the same)

Yes, but were the mathematics embedded in the question capture the real world relationship between handguns and crime? Or were the data synthesized to ensure that the only isolatable difference between the handgun question and the face cream question was that the subjects of the study had preconceived ideas about handguns, but not about an imaginary face cream?

Because Kahan's point was not about handguns and crime, but about people's ability to apply strict logic to a problem where a heuristic answer has already been arrived at and internalized as true.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 17:32 (seven months ago) link

Good point. The numbers were probably fictive throughout, come to think of it. So my initial reaction only goes to show that he was right.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 17:35 (seven months ago) link

remember, until you can prove that mr. trump was told that russia hacked the DNC and mr. trump replied, "thank you; I will get you sanctions relief in exchange," none of this counts as real criminal activity. that Russia did hack the DNC and the president did pursue sanctions relief and there were dozens of laws broken fragrantly by the campaign and then lied about for two years doesn't make a difference because that's totally normal except to sore loser self-righteous liberals who hate small business owners and america on the hunt for witches. arrest obama first because he didn't stop it if it bothers you so much

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 22:26 (seven months ago) link

Wrong thread, but we're knee deep in admissions of criminal activity from Cohen et al right now. There's now way AMI would have been given immunity for multiple felony violations of campaign finance law unless there was a shitton of dirt they would hand prosecutors.

Sanpaku, Saturday, 15 December 2018 20:01 (seven months ago) link

This was pretty illuminating/infuriating.

DJI, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 00:50 (six months ago) link

the smart money is getting out of the market before the house adjourns democRAT. war on christmas! fire the fed! NO COLLUSION :)

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 24 December 2018 19:47 (six months ago) link

His "Why We Needed Trump" trilogy is available at Amazon

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/01/07/mitt_romney_ready_for_my_close-up_mr_demille_139097.html?rc_fk

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 7 January 2019 18:46 (six months ago) link

one month passes...

conservatism really in a good place RN

Sebastian Gorka is a huge star at CPAC. He enters to that "Best Day of My Life" song, then gets huge cheers for calling Michael Cohen a "rat fink."

— Will Sommer (@willsommer) February 28, 2019

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 20:12 (four months ago) link

(wondering when my autocorrect will start replacing "conservatism" with "fascism")

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 20:12 (four months ago) link

gets huge cheers for calling Michael Cohen a "rat fink."

Well, Cohen broke the code of omerta.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 28 February 2019 20:19 (four months ago) link

Dave Eggers in El Paso:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/02/why-donald-trump-could-win-again-by-dave-eggers

pomenitul, Saturday, 2 March 2019 16:25 (four months ago) link

incredible how the entire conservative apparatus exists now solely to cover and run interference for Trump and his family, with sworn enemies like Michael Cohen (RNC finance chair and Trump's right-hand man), Jim Comey (a Republican who singlehandedly threw the election to Trump), and Robert Mueller (a Republican cop). did any Republicans ask Cohen a single question about Trump during the hearing on Wednesday?

frogbs, Saturday, 2 March 2019 16:38 (four months ago) link

The free market said no. pic.twitter.com/1VsN34F9s7

— Carl Zha (@CarlZha) March 2, 2019

calzino, Saturday, 2 March 2019 16:41 (four months ago) link

come on, that has to be a troll

Colonel Poo, Sunday, 3 March 2019 00:27 (four months ago) link

It was really nice of The Guardian to give Eggers a place to write 19,000 words ruminating on a Trump rally after waking up from that three year coma that prevented him from reading the hundreds of essays identical to this one that have already been written.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Sunday, 3 March 2019 00:41 (four months ago) link

i thought eggers already broke up. is this just like his amygdala and a bunch of touring cells cause i don't have time for any of him i don't think

Hunt3r, Sunday, 3 March 2019 03:34 (four months ago) link

Most conservatives don't really have a political philosophy other than reaction, but those who do have a philosophy can usually be summed up as thinking that wealth and power are too important to society to allow them into the hands of anyone who doesn't already have wealth and power, preferably in the hands of families that have been wealthy and powerful for multiple generations.

They are certain that this provides stability, or at least a reassuring predictability, which comes with reliable hands at the tiller, or it would, if it weren't for the constant agitation and discontent among the slaves servants common people, stirred up by radicals who want to reweave the whole fabric of society just because it has a few flaws and inequalities.

If conservatives could just crush out this ill-advised radicalism, the common people would once more accept their lot in life and be content with things as they are, creating the social harmony and peace that occur naturally in a well-regulated society run by conservatives. Then everyone would be happy.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 10 March 2019 19:57 (four months ago) link

two months pass...

There's this conservative argument that's been kicking around for some time now in "thinking man conservative" publications that we can't do social democratic policies here in the US because of how large and diverse we are, whereas they work in places like Finland because of relative homogeneity. I always found this to be a bizarre sort of rhetorical move since I doubt the people who make this argument would favor social democratic policies even if the US was homogenous. Also I wouldn't be surprised if those people favor both homogeneity AND libertarian policy.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:10 (one month ago) link

I wouldn't be surprised if these people were scoundrels and assholes

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:11 (one month ago) link

Pretty sure 'homogeneity' is a dog whistle.

pomenitul, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:15 (one month ago) link

If they're using that argument as a reason to not support those policies then it is definitely cynical and disingenuous but as an explanation for why we're unable to generate the political will to enact these policies it seems like they're probably correct (insofar as it's hard to contest that racism has played a role in undermining support for social liberal policy).

Mordy, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (one month ago) link

we can't do social democratic policies here in the US because of how large and diverse we are

Translation: we can't have nice things in this country because it conflicts with the white racist imperative to never allow brown-skinned people to have nice things.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:35 (one month ago) link

Is this kinda like the argument that Socialism failed in the USSR because it was too large and diverse? And backward. Like the US.

Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Monday, 20 May 2019 20:47 (one month ago) link

racism is comorbid with greed and selfishness but I don’t think it causes them

L'assie (Euler), Monday, 20 May 2019 21:46 (one month ago) link

it's weird those ppl said the _exact_ same thing in 1790 when usa was getting all melty like:

19.38% Africa
53.76% England
7.68% Ulster Scot-Irish
6.91% Germany
3.84% Scotland
2.56% Netherlands
0.26% Wales
0.38% France
0.05% Jews -4
0.05% Sweden
5.12% Other -5

e pluribus douchebags

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:57 (one month ago) link

(those numbers were scammed from wiki crap that addressed immigration, sorry to native populations excluded from my shitpost)

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:58 (one month ago) link

I always found this to be a bizarre sort of rhetorical move since I doubt the people who make this argument would favor social democratic policies even if the US was homogenous.

There is nothing bizarre about this move at all, its a completely logical move. Disingenuous of course, but logical. If there is a danger of a goal going in, then simply move the goalposts and reframe the argument. "You are wrong, and in the event that you may be proven right, you are now wrong for this other reason". What would be the non-bizarre rhetorical move?

anvil, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 04:05 (one month ago) link

Good thread, including comments. The short take: Kavanaugh sure has triggered conservatives!

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 May 2019 21:20 (one month ago) link

Good read.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2019 19:54 (one month ago) link

I feel like Tom Cotton and Nikki Hayley are more the future face of the GOP than Hawley but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:23 (one month ago) link

i don't think the american right has ever been very interested in democracy

mookieproof, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:33 (one month ago) link

I was gonna say conservatism in general and especially in the US pretty much boils down to "I want an aristocracy"

Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:38 (one month ago) link

these people marshall is talking about are something called "catholic integralists" though. they are extreme social conservatives not koch brother robber barons.

Trϵϵship, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:39 (one month ago) link

not that these things are unrelated. but the emphasis of these people is wanting a theocracy.

Trϵϵship, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:40 (one month ago) link

It's not like they want a poor theocracy

Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:42 (one month ago) link

boils down to "I want an aristocracy"

Dunno. It depends on the flavor of conservatism. The oligarchs want to maintain the current oligarchy. The evangelicals and conservative Catholics want to establish a theocracy. The racists just want the full restoration of white supremacy. Then there are the uneasy masses who just want everything 'put back the way it was', except the past they yearn for is a fantasy that never existed.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:54 (one month ago) link

"Hierarchy" is the better word. Some people are born to rule, others to follow. Corey Robin's book is pretty good on the subject.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:58 (one month ago) link

With a proper hierarchy, you always know who you must grovel to and who must grovel to you.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:03 (one month ago) link

(those numbers were scammed from wiki crap that addressed immigration, sorry to native populations excluded from my shitpost)

― Hunt3r, Monday, May 20, 2019 6:58 PM (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

quick note that indigenous populations weren't considered humans by colonialists at that time if they were considered at all. much of the continent was considered "terra nullius." so you can't be blamed for the wiki's bullshit— plenty of reasonable population estimates for the time period exist, but i'm sure that because they can't be *proven* some racist nerds at wikipedia edit them out all the time.

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:15 (one month ago) link

I’m at the Hotel Imperial in Vienna, Austria. Almost 200 rooms… But the elevator has been broken for 3 days.

Please don’t bring European-style socialism to America. 🚯 pic.twitter.com/axeygJSoBi

— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) June 18, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:01 (four weeks ago) link

must...resist...urge...to yell at frank luntz....on twitter...

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:32 (four weeks ago) link

No elevator in America has ever been or will ever be broken.

Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 04:32 (four weeks ago) link

Current Austrian government a coalition between well-known socialists, the People's Party and the Freedom Party.

Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 07:13 (four weeks ago) link


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