Are you considering purchasing a gun?

I struggle with understanding other people have different brains than I do

But also what are you going to do with your stupid gun other than hope your eventual teenage children don’t impulsively kill themselves with it?

A number of years back one of my friends saw a groupon for gun classes that included shooting range time and thought it would be a fun thing for a handful of us to do together. So about five of us took this gun class. We learned about safety and cleaning and how to take apart the gun, and how to load it, and how to troubleshoot stuff, and of course this class was taught by a guy who used to be a cop and is now a security consultant. Anyway, this guy told us, don't own a gun unless you are okay with killing a person, because you shoot to kill. And I thought about that, and I left, because I really was not okay with that. ... If I lived with other people (esp. if I were a parent), I would be super super reticent to have a gun* because that responsibility would also be on everyone else. Are they okay with killing a person?

* asterisk would be, an old ass hunting rifle if I lived out in the middle of nowhere and had to deal with vermin/disease-carrying predatory wild animals, and that gun would not be in the house

I'm not able to have children but I appreciate your concern for their non-existence xp

I’m addressing man alive, who does have children

xp man alive -- I would take the class(es) and then make up your mind whether you indeed want to be a gun owner. Seriously.

also think about the fact that you are a white dude

Anyway, this guy told us, don't own a gun unless you are okay with killing a person, because you shoot to kill.

This is still a bizarre sentiment to me and utterly divorced from my experience of living in a gun-friendly regional culture. Even as deranged as the country has gotten, people regularly buy guns completely divorced from any idea of defense or murder.

Well what are they for then?

i don't mean to downplay anyone's fear in these trying times but not sure what "if shit gets really bad" means in this whether to buy a gun context. your anonymous suburban family being targeted by a mob? because you're not going to bring it anywhere, right? idk, is one handgun going to help in a way that outweighs the danger of having it in your house every single day? maybe get like better doors or something instead. or one of those bunker rooms.

Well what are they for then?

Hunting, target shooting, competition - mostly for the hell of it IME.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ZgEtgxxg0

I think I'm a bit more sensitive to posters' coping fantasies than earlier in the thread but I have to say my answer hasnt changed, getting a gun is good for participating in armed insurrection, accidentally killing a family member or committing suicide - for anything else demonstrably bad

xp milo z -- this was handgun training, maybe I should've specified

Anyway, this guy told us, don't own a gun unless you are okay with killing a person, because you shoot to kill.
-
This is still a bizarre sentiment to me and utterly divorced from my experience of living in a gun-friendly regional culture. Even as deranged as the country has gotten, people regularly buy guns completely divorced from any idea of defense or murder.

see, this is a large part of the problem: guns means something very different for people in cities vs people in rural areas, but we all have to live in the same world and follow the same state/federal laws.

people in cities generally buy guns because they're afraid of other people and believe that they might be able to successfully shoot someone in a chaotic situation, and because they don't believe that the people close to them would ever accidentally or intentionally shoot someone else or themselves.

people in rural areas do the same, but in addition they very much enjoy shooting soda cans on their land, as well as killing animals. they are so obsessed with shooting objects and killing animals, and so myopic and selfish, that they want to impose lenient/non-existent gun regulations on everyone else, including city people.

so yeah, of course, people buy guns completely divorced form the idea of defense and murder. a nuclear bomb could also be used as a nice coffee table, if you use it correctly. a nuclear bomb doesn't have to be destructive. (*starts up the equivalent of NRA for nuclear weapons, arguing that because they can be used as nice coffee tables they shouldn't be banned anywhere on earth, ever, and lobbies hard for this for decades*). it's all so silly, but gun hobbyists are no different imo, when they continue to advocate for only their OWN, personal, "gun-friendly" region bullshit, knowing full well that every win for gun-ownership leads to violent deaths for other people. gross

i mention this every year on this thread, so i'll go ahead and put the notch on the board for 2021:

HOW ABOUT BAN PERSONAL GUN OWNERSHIP AND JUST LET PEOPLE "RENT" GUNS AT REGULATED FIREARM AREAS. OR MAYBE EVEN LET THEM OWN THEIR DAMN FUCKING GUNS, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE HELD AT THE SAFE LOCATION/SHOOTING RANGE, AND ARE NOT ALLOWED AT HOME. THAT WAY THE PEOPLE HAVING SO MUCH FUCKING FUN WITH THEIR GUNS CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE FUCKING FUN WHILE OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN DON'T SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FACE

no one ever has anything to say about that idea, anywhere, which i take to be a tacit admission that even for the rural "fun" gun people, the primary motivation is still wanting to retain their opportunity to try to kill someone in a violent chaotic situation

one of my best pals killed himself with his dad's gun when i was in HS, and i'm sure many people reading this have a similar story.

there is SO much gun violence in this country, that any time you talk about guns in a public forum, you should assume that multiple people have lost loved ones to guns.

anyway, that's why the "but they're fun!" argument is so, so, SO fucking insulting and dumb to me

like, i fucking LOVE coffee, and i would give it up today and suffer terrible headaches and fatigue and crankiness for months on end if i knew that coffee was very bad for everyone else, and that coffee was only available because me and my whiny coffee-loving friends paid dues to a lobbying organization to corruptly keep it available for me, just me, for me me me, because they loved coffee so fucking much that they didn't care what it did to other people

LET THEM OWN THEIR DAMN FUCKING GUNS, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE HELD AT THE SAFE LOCATION/SHOOTING RANGE, AND ARE NOT ALLOWED AT HOME.

actually, when I was writing my post upthread about the context in which I might own a gun, that was kinda what I thought about ... like, a neighborhood gun safe or something. OTM

Shooting at the range or having access through a neighborhood safe that is NOT IN YOUR HOUSE takes away most people's supposed justification for having guns IN THEIR HOUSE, which is, someday the zombies/people I look down on will come for my family and I will be Liam Neeson when the fact is no one is coming for them and they and their entire family are way less safe with a gun in the house.

Noobs.

"like, i fucking LOVE coffee, "

I said this same argument wrt playing basketball and milo replied with some bullshit about how Chinese workers died making basketballs or something

like, i fucking LOVE coffee, and i would give it up today and suffer terrible headaches and fatigue and crankiness for months on end if i knew that coffee was very bad for everyone else, and that coffee was only available because me and my whiny coffee-loving friends paid dues to a lobbying organization to corruptly keep it available for me, just me, for me me me, because they loved coffee so fucking much that they didn't care what it did to other people

― Karl Malone, Saturday, 9 January 2021 20:32 (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well i mean start listing

Drugs
Alcohol
Animal fats or whatever

Shooting at the range or having access through a neighborhood safe that is NOT IN YOUR HOUSE takes away most people's supposed justification for having guns IN THEIR HOUSE, which is, someday the zombies/people I look down on will come for my family and I will be Liam Neeson when the fact is no one is coming for them and they and their entire family are way less safe with a gun in the house.

exactly! the reason the "rent-a-gun" idea doesn't fly is because that's not the primary reason to have a gun. it's an excuse

NB im not making an argument for guns im just not sure about that argument against them but obv feel free to disregard

no, i gotcha - it's not the most solid argument. but please, see some of my earlier, better arguments. i am more of a tracks poster than an album poster

Lol <3

Lmao Karl

Doesn't that make you more of an album poster?

i guess i mean that my albums are really too long, but some of the individual tracks are ok, you just have to sift through the garbage a bit to get to it

90s still a top decade imo so you have my full support.

I feel the same way about guns as I do about nukes - I'd rather no one have any but if they must exist I don't only want (cops/the USA) to have 'em. but I don't have any dependents and don't care THAT much if I live or die so I'll probably never buy one.

My point re: lived experience around guns and in a gun friendly culture (which is... very not-rural) - an innate terror response to the idea of being in proximity to a gun is not the norm among Americans and expecting/demanding one isn't going to get you very far in whatever your goal is, likewise to the idea that anyone owning or considering the purchase of a gun has to be prepared to become Charles Bronson.

Gun laws up to private ownership of guns are not in my top 30 political issues either way - ban them, don't, godspeed. I have no intention of owning a gun again, unless I'm given a hermitage in the woods where I'll be required to hunt for meat.

No, but i'm considering purchasing a nug

an innate terror response to the idea of being in proximity to a gun is not the norm among Americans and expecting/demanding one isn't going to get you very far in whatever your goal is, likewise to the idea that anyone owning or considering the purchase of a gun has to be prepared to become Charles Bronson

I think everyone is aware this is the reality. and here we are

man alive just going to shoot people in the legs presumably

american gun culture seems totally normal and fine

leftist gun clubs

It's an education, this thread.

well, for some. others just seem to carry on assuming that whatever culture they grew up in is a norm seemingly without challenge

You think American gun laws are bad but then look at SWITZERLANDDDDDDDDD we should aspire to be more like Switzerland why aren't we all like the Swiss why oh why.

I have wondered a few times what the attitude toward the parkland teens is since a lot of the us left decided the whole gun thing in america was fine actually

American gun laws are inextricably tangled up with white supremacy and patriarchy/masculinity and the whole toxic broth is too much for me to be interested in. But then I know no one is coming for me (probably) so I guess that's easy for me to say.

I expect the Biden admin to close the ‘gun show loophole’* which is a good law (if only partially effective) and was (as of a couple of years ago) supported by a majority of gun owners. Plus you can sell it to gun dealers as free money since they can charge $25 to do a little paperwork and make a phone call.

That’s the kind of thing that can be built on, I’d think.

*barring Manchin and Sinema interference

an innate terror response to the idea of being in proximity to a gun is not the norm among Americans and expecting/demanding one isn't going to get you very far in whatever your goal is

America is a large diverse country. ... A couple months back a young woman with a baby in the car was killed in a drive by shooting. Not sure the baby lived either. She was pregnant, and the fetus also died. No idea why she was shot. Then there are all the people killed by police with guns. ... It is just too easy to kill people with guns. ... So, Karl, where can I order one of those nuclear warhead coffee tables? I think it would go well with my industrial boho interior design aesthetic

oops - killed a block away from my friend's house. He was one of the first people to respond.

leftist gun clubs

50/50 as to whether I'd be in one if I was amurrican

What if you were Albertan.

Man alive, does your webmail work?

I feel the same way about guns as I do about nukes - I'd rather no one have any but if they must exist I don't only want (cops/the USA) to have 'em. but I don't have any dependents and don't care THAT much if I live or die so I'll probably never buy one.

― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:05 PM (four hours ago)

lmao hell yeah we are gonna equality our way outta this pickle